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one of the other things that Hard difficulty affects is enemy/AI health. Everything is a bullet sponge on hard and for some reason it feels way bigger than any health increase that they did for RA, you shouldn't need multiple units to take out one enemy Light Infantry but that's the way it is
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Jun 15, 2019 09:05
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It's here! This is the first C&C I owned and I can't believe how smooth that gameplay is from what I remember. A small detail that blew my mind was the spotlight locking on to units, how often are we going to see those things and yet they programmed that in. One thing that has completely fled my mind however is the soundtrack. It's much more ambient than Tiberian Dawns louder and energetic tracks, but thats rather the point I think. The current world is much bleaker and the soundtrack reflects that too by not being so in your face. I think my original box might still be at my parents, but sadly my CD seems to be missing from my pile of old games, sadness.
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Jun 15, 2019 09:52
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Thefluffy posted:RIP that one drop pod guy that hit the building. Guess those drop pod guns only clear up to a certain size of obstruction. 90s Cringe Rock posted:Ah, a suit designed for war criming civilians. Welcome back, Commander. 
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Jun 15, 2019 13:26
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Good to see this started.  I'm also pretty firmly in the "Tiberian Sun is cool but not amazing" camp, and one reason is definitely because it just looks so muddy. Not that the graphics aren't nice but also everything's dim and dark and blends together in a way that I never really got over. Barring units behind trees or single infantrymen lost in some corner or whatever, it was overall a lot easier to tell what was on the screen at a glance in the previous (and also the later) games. I also always found that the combat lacked impact in a way that I can't entirely explain, something about the sounds and how everything feels like it has just a little too much health. Like when a building finally blows up it just kinda goes like "poof" instead of the satisfying "KA-BOOM" from before. Things just don't feel like they have the same "punch" they do in many other C&C games, and combined with the dark visuals TS just overall has a really subdued vibe. Atmospheric as hell, but feels like it's at a cost. Gameplay-wise though, definitely an improvement and no mistake about it. Building queues! Clear waypoints! Also the music's very good. Never finished quite the campaigns so this LP's good reason to finally clear this one too. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Jun 15, 2019 |
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Jun 15, 2019 13:55
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I tried to take a crack at Tiberian Sun again during the last thread and, Christ, like always, I bounced off it hard. The UI just feels CLUNKY as hell and... I don't want to spoil, so hopefully this doesn't count as it, but Tiberian Sun's engine can handle a ton of things that C&C1 and RA1's engines couldn't in terms of scripting, but the actual game design of making those things fun rather than frustrating lags far behind in some missions.
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Jun 15, 2019 23:54
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Zikan posted:I love of this game continues the storyline of tiberium being a global pandemic and environmental disaster combined. Everyone who is out in the field has to wear what looks like full nbc gear, entire regions of the world are in anarchy or uninhabitable, even the leadership of GDI has fled earth to the safety of space. I wouldn't say "fled Earth" so much as creating a rapid-response force in orbit around Earth. Thefluffy posted:is there a reason some of the tiberium turned blue after you blown up that one civilian building? I... honestly don't know. I'll end up checking the maps and see if there might be something in there regarding that. Thefluffy posted:just don't think too hard about that one drop pod trooper in same cutscene having some instagib laser gun instead of the usual plinkers they have in gameplay Or that the death animation just sees them turn into really ugly rotating models before they simply vanish. Aces High posted:one of the other things that Hard difficulty affects is enemy/AI health. Everything is a bullet sponge on hard and for some reason it feels way bigger than any health increase that they did for RA, you shouldn't need multiple units to take out one enemy Light Infantry but that's the way it is Taken straight from the rules.ini file quote:[Easy]  If selecting Hard for the player gives Easy for the AI, then yeah they've got a slight armor bonus, but I wouldn't call anything "bullet sponges" in this game.Zernach posted:It's here! This is the first C&C I owned and I can't believe how smooth that gameplay is from what I remember. A small detail that blew my mind was the spotlight locking on to units, how often are we going to see those things and yet they programmed that in. The OST is mental. Frank Klepacki is my go-to example for anything related to music or audio in games. Kanfy posted:Good to see this started. I can definitely understand how the dulled palette could turn people off, but TibSun definitely has some satisfying explosions for its combat. Definitely better than the two previous entries, anyways, especially since exploding units/buildings do things too! PurpleXVI posted:I tried to take a crack at Tiberian Sun again during the last thread and, Christ, like always, I bounced off it hard. The UI just feels CLUNKY as hell and... I don't want to spoil, so hopefully this doesn't count as it, but Tiberian Sun's engine can handle a ton of things that C&C1 and RA1's engines couldn't in terms of scripting, but the actual game design of making those things fun rather than frustrating lags far behind in some missions. I think I've just played Red Alert and Tiberian Sun so much that there's nothing about the UI that I have a major issue with. Future titles will have some nice QoL improvements, but not to the point that I dislike playing through these classics. Oh and the game does a bad job at giving a really good intro to the world of Tiberian Sun, stuff you'd get spoiled on if you read the manual or a prima guide first, so there'll be a story update or two post in the future between episodes. And since I have both prima strategy guides for the game, I'll be pointing out some stuff mentioned in those during some map exploration stuff.
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Jun 16, 2019 02:19
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huh, well if that's what the settings are. It may just be a bias on my part when going from playing RA on Hard to playing TS on Hard and it feeling more tedious
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Jun 16, 2019 06:31
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If you play on Hard means the AI plays on Easy, then the AI has both a 20% armor bonus, and you have a 20% rate-of-fire disadvantage, which adds up to an effective 44% increase in time to kill versus the AI.
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Jun 16, 2019 07:32
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I was surprised at how quickly even Riflemen could shoot down buildings in RA, the amount of time it took you now to even destroy a single lovely power plant (with, like, a dozen guys shooting simultaneously) makes it more in line with how I remember C&C play - as I played way more TibSun. In fact, when I went back to play it a few years back, I couldn't get past the second mission. The game just felt soooo sloooow, and I don't think I played on Hard - it's just way more deliberate than stuff I got used to in the meantime. Also, I stopped playing RTSs almost completely anyway. A bit of a shame, because I have a lot of fond memories, but they'll just have to stay that, and I'll revisit the game very gladly through your videos  .
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Jun 16, 2019 11:50
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Do we ever find out anything more about the Philadelphia space station? When was it built? Is it just a launch base for GDI troopers? And the Kodiak? Does every commander get one or is that MacNeil's personal go kart?
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Jun 16, 2019 14:16
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ultrabindu posted:Do we ever find out anything more about the Philadelphia space station? When was it built? Is it just a launch base for GDI troopers? In the interest of not accidentally spoiling anything, I'm not 100% sure if the game/manual expands on it, but I will definitely check and post about it eventually
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Jun 16, 2019 14:40
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Man, I love Tibsun and Firestorm. Probably my favourite out of the whole bunch, just because some of the tech is completely crazy-awesome.
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Jun 16, 2019 15:00
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Tibsun is one of my favorite RTSs of all time, and it's really great how even by the first mission the factions feel totally different on the ground. GDI is wrapping people in advanced armoured suits and walkers, while NOD is just putting people under the knife to graft fuckoff big guns to their arms. 
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Jun 19, 2019 19:21
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GDI 02: Secure the Region https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuk9p8cmtm8 Secure the Region  With the defense of Phoenix Base, local order has been restored in the area. However, the victory did come at a cost, as a communication made by Vega was received, showing him murdering Lt. Peter Tao. Gen. Solomon tasks Commander McNeil with eliminating the NOD forces responsible, while also evacuating any civilians from the area   We're back to having a map! Woooo! The region looking to be secured is on the border of Arizona and New Mexico, maybe the river is the Gila River?  Location: Near Duncan, Arizona Objective: Destroy the NOD presence in the area, and evacuate all civilians. Briefing: The Nod forces that attacked Phoenix Base have been traced back to a small base in this sector. Orders received from GDI Command state that the Nod base must be destroyed. However, there is a significant civilian population in the immediate area that must be evacuated by ORCA Transport before the fighting gets too heavy. Before the Transports can safely land, all seven SAM sites must be destroyed. Once the civilians have been evacuated, the Nod base can be destroyed. Author's note: Some new units are added to the arsenal, blue Tiberium shows up, we're introduced to engineers, repairing, defending a base, and attacking a defended area! Hard to complain about this one, other than maybe having a repair hut at the northern bridge.   Name: General Solomon Aliases: None Affiliation: GDI Occupation: Supreme Commander of GDI Voiced/Played by: James Earl Jones The Supreme Commander of GDI, he oversees GDIs actions from the GDI Space Station Philadelphia. Gen. Solomon was taken aback by the return of Kane, but quickly called for one of his more promising commanders, Michael McNeil. Tasks Com. McNeil with destroying the NOD forces responsible for the attack on Phoenix Base.  Name: Lt. Com. Peter Tao Aliases: None Affiliation: GDI Occupation: GDI Lieutenant Commander [DECEASED] Voiced/Played by: Bayani Ison Lt. Com. Tao is seen under attack and calling the SS Philadelphia prior to the first assignment for the Commander. Was captured by Nod forces during an attack on Phoenix Base (Located in or around Phoenix, Arizona), and executed by Phase/Faze(?).  Name: 1st Lt. Chandra Aliases: None Affiliation: GDI Occupation: Kodiak Co-pilot and 2IC Voiced/Played by: Kris Iyer Friend and second-in-command to Com. McNeil, he serves as the Kodiak's co-pilot.  Name: Commander Michael McNeil Aliases: Mack Affiliation: GDI Occupation: GDI Commander Voiced/Played by: Michael Biehn Commander McNeil was personally requested for by General Solomon, and was briefed of Kane's return by the same. Initially skeptical of the return of Kane, he immediately set out to destroy NOD forces attacking Phoenix Base.  Name: Brink Aliases: None Affiliation: GDI Occupation: Kodiak Pilot Voiced/Played by: Athena Massey The Kodiak's pilot.  Name: Vega Aliases: Faze Affiliation: NOD Occupation: Commander within the Brotherhood of NOD (Rank is presumed) Voiced/Played by: Francesco Quinn Presumably, he was the leader of the forces behind the attack on Phoenix Base. Murders Lt. Com. Peter Tao.   Orca Transport RANGE: Short ARMOR: Light WEAPON: None Available only in certain solo-play missions, the Orca Transport can carry up to 5 infantry units to any location on a battle map. Loading and unloading it is identical in function to loading and unloading an amphibious APC. Author's Note: You can't build these normally, and they are usually heavily scripted. They can carry 5 passengers, which isn't strictly limited to infantry and/or civilians.  Disk Thrower RANGE: Medium to Long ARMOR: None WEAPON: Discus Grenade The Disk Thrower is a light infantry unit that carries a long-range grenade delivery system. Instead of traditionally shaped grenades, the Disk Thrower uses an aerodynamic grenade that is designed with longer flight in mind. Because of the dynamics of the discus-like projectile, the grenade can bounce along terrain if it does not impact its intended target. Author's Note: Do you remember Grenadiers? Well, guess what, its the good guys that have 'em now! haha...haha! AhahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!  Engineer RANGE: Short ARMOR: None WEAPON: None Slow and unarmed, the Engineer is, nonetheless, deadly in his own right. The only unit able to capture enemy structures; tactical use of engineers is considered an art among many commanders. The unit has multiple purposes, each explained below. Note that the engineer unit will be lost when any of the actions below are performed. Author's Note: Capture enemy buildings, repair your own, or even repair bridges! These guys got a healthy upgrade from Red Alert and I love it.  Tiberium Silo ARMOR: Light COST: 150 POWER USAGE: 10 PURPOSE: Increase monetary storage capacity Tiberium Silos store excess Tiberium once the Tiberium refineries are at maximum capacity. If a Tiberium refinery is filled to capacity and there are no empty silos available, excess Tiberium from a Harvester will be lost. Author's Note: Like the refinery and the harvester, these things will spread Tiberium when they explode, so be careful with any nearby damaged units.  War Factory ARMOR: Heavy COST: 2000 POWER USAGE: 30 PURPOSE: Produces GDI vehicles. This structure allows for the construction of vehicles. Certain advanced vehicles require additional structures before they can be built by a War Factory. Author's Note: Allows the player to build some of the best units in the game, what else do you need? Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 00:36
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mission is a callback to the second GDI mission of TD but with the twist of saving civilians instead of the A-10 strike you never get at a useful time anyway. also disc throwers suck and I hate them.
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Jun 20, 2019 00:51
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disc throwers are a cool novelty, especially the whole bouncing grenade thing. However that bouncing gets annoying VERY quickly because of how the engine works
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Jun 20, 2019 01:02
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Yeah, definitely have mixed feeling about Disk Throwers. The whole ground targeting to get extra range is pretty cool and useful, but the bounce psychics on the disks and them damaging anything around them on death, not so much. Anyway, not to much to say about the mission, it serves its purpose well, has some nice scripted events, and reasonable opposition scattered around the map. The tease with the back door bridge to the NOD base is a nice touch, and having to explore around the map to find SAM Sites is a nice callback to TD GDI Mission 3. Oh, and Blue Tiberium does actually grow, it just does so incredibly slowly, like I think two or even three times slower then Green Tiberium. Do also like the world map design, the whole nations not being as important anymore aspect with NOD and GDI having swathes of territory under their control is nice world building. Plus having an audio briefing when hovering over the mission is a very nice quality of life improvement, and lets you know a bit what to expect going in. So many nice little touches like that added in this game.
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Jun 20, 2019 01:19
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Thefluffy posted:mission is a callback to the second GDI mission of TD but with the twist of saving civilians instead of the A-10 strike you never get at a useful time anyway. also disc throwers suck and I hate them. Disk Throwers are amazing and probably broken: they're good against infantry AND tanks, they 'repair' for free, they literally outrange most base defenses if you force manual targeting (as well as destroy bridges contentiously), and the only way to kill them effectively is with something we haven't even seen yet (Nod Buggies will probably die to a squad of Disk Throwers.) They're balanced only by their slow speed and inability to shoot up.
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Jun 20, 2019 01:40
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thetruegentleman posted:Disk Throwers are amazing and probably broken: they're good against infantry AND tanks, they 'repair' for free, they literally outrange most base defenses if you force manual targeting (as well as destroy bridges contentiously), and the only way to kill them effectively is with something we haven't even seen yet (Nod Buggies will probably die to a squad of Disk Throwers.) They're balanced only by their slow speed and inability to shoot up. They're a risk to themselves and others if you aren't very careful with positioning! Not as much as the old grenadiers were, but still pretty risky! They're at least faster than engineers, which seem to be about as slow as possible in TS, but that won't save them from a cyborg or two. Cyborgs are goddamn BEASTS in this.
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Jun 20, 2019 03:40
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The video mentions that blue tiberium can't regenerate; however that's incorrect. They have an equivalent of the Green tiberium tree: a big gently caress off giant blue crystal. It'll animate a "sheen" effect when it regenerates the blue tiberium around it, similar to the trees blossom animation.
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Jun 20, 2019 03:46
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Yeah seems I mispoke, ill def mention it in two vids from now. Dunno why that stuck for me
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Jun 20, 2019 03:50
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The bad guy in the video is "Vega", incidentally. McNeil calls him out specifically so I feel like that isn't a spoiler. 
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Jun 20, 2019 05:09
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I don't think this is true until the expansion. I don't remember them appearing anywhere in TS proper.
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Jun 20, 2019 05:37
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I wonder if the Disc Throwers were inspired by the Spinfusor/Disc Launcher in Starsiege: Tribes.
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Jun 20, 2019 06:03
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thetruegentleman posted:Disk Throwers are amazing and probably broken: they're good against infantry AND tanks, they 'repair' for free, they literally outrange most base defenses if you force manual targeting (as well as destroy bridges contentiously), and the only way to kill them effectively is with something we haven't even seen yet (Nod Buggies will probably die to a squad of Disk Throwers.) They're balanced only by their slow speed and inability to shoot up. My bad. DISC THROWER GUD! E: while I'm here, I reckon regular infantry aren't entirely useless, sprinkling them in with disc throwers draws fire away from the dt's, works much better than just disc throwers on their own. Also if you have too many dt's close together sometimes one dying causes a chain reaction that blows them all up which I find cool but infuriating. TS is a really frustrating game for me despite being one of my faves. Super cool from a technical standpoint and has some amazing stuff in it but everything seems half-implemented and the balance is horrendous; nod comes across like a faction built solely to be a campaign enemy, with human playability seemingly an afterthought. And why the gently caress does the artillery home how did that get through playtesting ffs. Slavvy fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 06:22
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No spoilers my man.
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Jun 20, 2019 06:26
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What Disc Throwers really are is yet another GDI unit designed specifically for perpetrating war crimes. Just try using them in an urban area.
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Jun 20, 2019 07:37
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anilEhilated posted:What Disc Throwers really are is yet another GDI unit designed specifically for perpetrating war crimes. Just try using them in an urban area. See also: mlrs in TD. Those bloody rockets land everywhere but on target.
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Jun 20, 2019 07:46
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anilEhilated posted:What Disc Throwers really are is yet another GDI unit designed specifically for perpetrating war crimes. Just try using them in an urban area.
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Jun 20, 2019 08:14
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Strobe posted:The bad guy in the video is "Vega", incidentally. McNeil calls him out specifically so I feel like that isn't a spoiler. I mean the word "Vega" doesn't come up and isn't spoken during the cutscene so I don't know who that is right now. Also I don't know why we're getting into big talks about how NOD plays since we haven't seen most of their arsenal, and I have no clue what an artillery is other than the garbage one from Red Alert. Come on my dudes, we can cut back on the spoilers, were 2 videos in
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Jun 20, 2019 11:38
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Say, Jobbo, could you put a table of contents in the OP or something? Just so we can find the video posts easier?
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Jun 20, 2019 13:00
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CommissarMega posted:Say, Jobbo, could you put a table of contents in the OP or something? Just so we can find the video posts easier? Yeah, will do, was just waiting on a little more content, but I've got a little bit of downtime atm. Edit: Done vvvv: The Wolverine has 2(!) gatling guns! Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 13:11
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Surprisingly tough mission for the second one, at least in that it takes some actual effort to win, losing isn't much of a concern. As was shown it's pretty easy to get your entire army wiped out trying to attack the NOD base even if you bring decent numbers. Part of it is might be that you're likely to overestimate your Wolverines and understimate the NOD buggies, I mean one is A drat MECH WITH A GATLING GUN HELL YEAH and the other's that garbage car from the last two games that blew up from a breeze and which nobody built ever, and then it suddenly turns out that neither of them is quite on the power level you would've expected. Also while the visuals have improved in TS, the completely static waterfalls always stand out a bit now that things look otherwise more realistic. As a last thing I've a soft spot for the mission select screen of this game, the combination of the music and the voiced mission briefing is really cool.
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Jun 20, 2019 13:11
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Feeling the wolverine's lack of power here as well. I remember seeing it and thinking "holy poo poo it's the power suit from the C&C post credits teaser!" and being very underwhelmed (see my previous rants about how TD had a nicer balance of low/high tech). I definitely love the intricacy of the maps, though, the roads/civilian structures are great flavour and it's always fun exploring to look for a back door into the enemy base or some other neat bit of geography. And while I don't think TS has a track that quite rivals Act on Instinct or Hell March, the soundtrack is still right up there. It does feel a bit weird to see the player character as an actual actor with lines, I kind of liked being an enigmatic, silent floating camera.
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Jun 20, 2019 13:25
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I never felt the Wolverine was under-powered, I guess I just looked at the fact it was armed with twin chainguns and assumed it was designed with an anti-infantry role in mind, rather than fighting other vehicles. That or just using them in massive amounts 
Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 15:17
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Man, I never actually realized that Solomon was played by loving James Earl Jones. 
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Jun 20, 2019 15:24
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Jobbo_Fett posted:I mean the word "Vega" doesn't come up and isn't spoken during the cutscene so I don't know who that is right now. Gen Solomon: "That drug-dealing son of a bitch is -" McNeil: "Vega, king of the eye candy trade." I mentioned it because it did come up in the video. EDIT: for those of you watching the video that didn't catch the gore discretion poo poo we got, when the bad guy says "the least you can do is wear a tie" he gives the captured GDI dude a 'Boston necktie', which is slitting the throat from ear to ear. I didn't realize that for literally 20 years. Strobe fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 15:43
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Strobe posted:Gen Solomon: "That drug-dealing son of a bitch is -" He says Phase/Faze though
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Jun 20, 2019 15:54
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He says Vega, pretty sure. I've always heard it that way pretty clearly ever since the first time I played this game. I was thrown off when you said that's a spoiler too, as he says it in this current episode.
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Jun 20, 2019 16:02
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Jobbo_Fett posted:He says Phase/Faze though I saw this in the character descriptions and had no idea where you got it because I hear "Vega" plain as day in the video.
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Jun 20, 2019 16:04
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