|
indigi posted:oh wow so it’s a full parallel timeline rather than a divergence during White Clouds. interesting. thanks. that sounds pretty cool, any interesting new character beats or endings? No real endings tbh, the game ends with everything still in flux on every route and there's no epilogue to detail what happens next. Character-wise you get some good ones and some bad ones. For the bad Notably the Lions have mostly become... nothing as all their flaws got magically resolved during the 2 year time skip so they're just there. Like Sylvain turns to the camera and says 'Yeah, I was wrong to treat women badly' and then proceeds to just be 'sir also appearing in this cutscene to say 'yeah''. Felix is now Dimitri's number 2 guy but hey he still calls him Boar sometimes plus he also makes up with his dad? Ingrid's issues with her dad were totally resolved, etc. And none of them really get anything to replace their former issues so they become insanely one note. Meanwhile you have Claude who obviously gets his big glow-up, Petra who gets a running plot about trying to assassinate Caspar's dad, Hubert who gets a lot of really fun beats of 'trying to be a good friend while also being an evil Visser' which are hilarious, Lorenz gets a much more interesting and complicated relationship with his dad, confirmation that even in a timeline where they barely know each other Edelgard is drawn to Byleth, some really good Jeralt and Byleth stuff, Jeritza and Edelgard's relationship gets a really cool twist, Monica being the world's biggest Edelgard fan and competing with Hubert, some great Lorenz/Constance/Ferdinand bullshit etc Honestly there are a lot of character beats and they're most good. Zore fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Jul 14, 2022 |
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 18:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 19:45 |
|
|
indigi posted:wtf how is that possible She's really pro-active about securing Brigid's status, brokering a deal that Brigid would be released from vassalage once she became queen, and then traveling back to Brigid to get crowned in secret, holding it over Hubert's head and blackmailing him about it. He is of course thoroughly impressed with this and slaps her on the back saying he surprised her and they move up their plans. It's great stuff. Also in her A support she practically jumps Shez, it's so romantic and it's very clear (even in the text) she's trying to strike before anyone else does.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 18:50
|
|
|
Eimi posted:She's really pro-active about securing Brigid's status, brokering a deal that Brigid would be released from vassalage once she became queen, and then traveling back to Brigid to get crowned in secret, holding it over Hubert's head and blackmailing him about it. He is of course thoroughly impressed with this and slaps her on the back saying he surprised her and they move up their plans. It's great stuff. Also in her A support she practically jumps Shez, it's so romantic and it's very clear (even in the text) she's trying to strike before anyone else does. hahaha that owns, why does she still fight on the Empire’s side if Brigid is free
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 18:53
|
|
|
indigi posted:hahaha that owns, why does she still fight on the Empire’s side if Brigid is free She's a lot more mercenary and it kinda rules. In SB its clear the Empire is in a dominant position so she sticks with them because she trusts Edelgard enough to believe she'll honor their deal and she doesn't want to piss off a burgeoning superpower who already conquered them once. Also she seems to actually believe in Edelgard's ideals. In the other routes when you recruit her you basically exploit this because the war is going more poorly for the Empire so she judges its worth jumping ship. There's also a really nice touch if she dies loyally on a non-SB route where Edelgard is really broken up by it and withdraws the Empire from Brigid.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 18:58
|
|
|
Yeah she does approve of Edelgard's reforms and in general on SB at least she becomes friends with Edelgard. Edelgard's only one aside from Hubert in this timeline actually, she's much more distant to the other Eagles and way more of an unreachable ruler. (Just like she warns Byleth in her B support.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 19:00
|
|
|
indigi posted:hahaha that owns, why does she still fight on the Empire’s side if Brigid is free Why wouldn't she? Arundel is the one who took her hostage, Edelgard has been nothing but a friend to her who will gladly recognize Brigid's independence. Also she can be recruited if you're playing on another route and she's very open about securing an alliance with whoever wins the war, so Brigid can replace whoever loses as the third greatest power in Fódlan and be the one called when the big dogs need a dispute mediated.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 19:01
|
|
|
Zulily Zoetrope posted:I feel like that summary oversells one particular point: Claude schemes once to deliberately gently caress up and let his imperial allies die; which causes everyone to yell at him and winds up with Fleche hiring Jeralt and Byleth to assassinate him, potentially causing Judith to die in his stead. He spends some time reevaluating and being a lot more up front with the Deer, culminating in them having the opportunity to betray Edelgard and cripple the Empire, which is an option he immediately dismisses because of how badly he got burned abandoning a relative nobody like Randolph previously. You influence him to be more forthcoming and less starkly utilitarian, unfortunately, but it does come with the upside that he manages to talk Dimitri into abandoning Rhea. I don't feel like the conclusion Claude reaches is really more moral. It's more fear of consequences (Especially with SB Hubert being shown to completely have his number. Likewise, his schemey ways actually result in Lorenz becoming worse and advocating that they should just let their allies die for their benefit, again. e: Also it's pretty clear even in Three Houses that Petra likes and respects Edelgard, and she is unwilling to abandon her.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 19:07
|
|
|
Zulily Zoetrope posted:Why wouldn't she? because as a queen with no heir joining a foreign war because of your personal friend is a very bad idea
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 19:09
|
|
|
Also Three Hopes fills out the plot with a lot more noble NPCs. Most of them don't have much of a role, but Lorenz, Caspar, Bernadetta and Linhardt's dads all appear as major characters, and not only do we meet Holst; he's a playable character who kicks all kinds of rear end. Caspar's dad also owns but is sadly not playable.Clawtopsy posted:I don't feel like the conclusion Claude reaches is really more moral. It's more fear of consequences (Especially with SB Hubert being shown to completely have his number. Likewise, his schemey ways actually result in Lorenz becoming worse and advocating that they should just let their allies die for their benefit, again. Eh, there's some of that in there, but I am pretty sure he is genuinely shaken when Shez' response is "so who's next? Would you sacrifice me to safeguard someone who's closer to you?" Like obviously there's utility in standing up for your allies because otherwise you can't expect them to stand up for you, but at that point you're splitting hairs as to whether any altruism is more than fear of consequences. On Scarlet Blaze he's willing to turn on the Empire because he hasn't bonded with a mercenary challenging him and instead meets one that eggs him on. And on Golden Wildfire Edelgard makes it entirely clear that she doesn't trust him and Hubert is definitely making contingency plans for his possible betrayal.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 19:19
|
|
|
Clawtopsy posted:I don't feel like the conclusion Claude reaches is really more moral. It's more fear of consequences (Especially with SB Hubert being shown to completely have his number. Likewise, his schemey ways actually result in Lorenz becoming worse and advocating that they should just let their allies die for their benefit, again. Re: Claude Claude's arc can be read ambiguously which is why I think it's good. Either he decides it's morally wrong to abandon your allies because of what happens. Or he decides that even if it's not morally wrong, it alienates your more moral and reliable allies. And I just really like how a more ruthless Claude early in the game genuinely finds more success than the less ruthless version. Would Claude at the beginning of the game have rushed back to Ordelia territory when he could have taken Fhirdiad and ended Dimitri? There's a good chance he would have just accepted the losses. But that lack of success is in a lot of ways offset by how strong a state he leaves the Alliance/Federation in by the end, with a set of rulers who are all incredibly loyal and trusting of him because of how he's changed. Petra is super interesting. Her siding with the Empire even post independence is honestly logical. They are Brigid's most major neighbour and even if she's gained independence, it's gained through the forbearance of the current Emperor. Fighting to maintain that relationship and an alliance with the people who will presumably be your biggest trading partner and military supporter going forward is important.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 19:20
|
|
|
Can you kill Bernie’s dad as Bernie? if so I may get the game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 19:23
|
|
|
Zulily Zoetrope posted:Also Three Hopes fills out the plot with a lot more noble NPCs. Most of them don't have much of a role, but Lorenz, Caspar, Bernadetta and Linhardt's dads all appear as major characters, and not only do we meet Holst; he's a playable character who kicks all kinds of rear end. Caspar's dad also owns but is sadly not playable. Which in response to what Hubert does leads to an incredible moment and one that's almost worth doing the bad path of SB. Hubert being able to be the most magnificent of magnificent bastards and planning for Claude's double cross with a triple of cross of his own is awesome and really sells how good he is at the spy game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 19:23
|
|
|
indigi posted:because as a queen with no heir joining a foreign war because of your personal friend is a very bad idea IIRC, there's a support where Petra mentions this and then says she doesn't care and is going to do it anyways.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 19:23
|
|
|
indigi posted:Can you kill Bernie’s dad as Bernie? if so I may get the game. Sadly no, but Hubert makes his life a living hell by making him archbishop of the southern church. It's sold as a 'promotion' but in reality it just makes him a massive target for assassinations as he's forced to live in Garreg Mach becoming a shell of who is out of fear of assassins and living trapped in his room. You can let him die and the only one who says anything is Hubert who complains about all the paperwork it'll take him.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 19:25
|
|
|
indigi posted:Can you kill Bernie’s dad as Bernie? if so I may get the game. Well, you can, but only on the Blue Lions route. You can however, abandon his rear end on the Black Eagles route and will not get a game over if he dies, and no one's stopping you from letting Bernie watch it happen. This will however lead to Hubert being mildly disappointed that he has to do a lot of paperwork to replace him, so I hope you can stomach that. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jul 14, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 19:27
|
|
|
Natural 20 posted:Petra is super interesting. Her siding with the Empire even post independence is honestly logical. They are Brigid's most major neighbour and even if she's gained independence, it's gained through the forbearance of the current Emperor. Fighting to maintain that relationship and an alliance with the people who will presumably be your biggest trading partner and military supporter going forward is important. it isn’t logical to be fighting there herself though. El and Claude being on the front lines makes sense cause nobody else cares enough to create the world they do (freedom from the church, end the nobility, peace with Almyra) to plunge the continent into war over it. if they lose they may as well die, and if they die their dreams can’t possibly come to fruition anyway. they have to put everything on the line to tip the scales in their favor. Dmitri is in a similar place because his kingdom and his kingship is threatened by elements already active in the background given his father’s death and the Duscur genocide so he has to confront these issues more or less directly Petra’s dream, her entire motivation, is a strong, independent Brigid with a capable ruler. her death as queen would instantly and existentially compromise that goal (potentially abrogating the independence deal in the process). that’s a position I don’t think she’d risk putting Brigid in by personally fighting in the war obviously you can’t make the game without including Petra, so that’s why I was confused by giving her independence before the end of the campaign. it’s a weak plot point given everything else. just put independence at the end and everything else clicks Khizan posted:IIRC, there's a support where Petra mentions this and then says she doesn't care and is going to do it anyways. very weird characterization given the entirety of Three Houses but I suppose the time skip made her more selfish
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 19:36
|
|
|
Zulily Zoetrope posted:Well, you can, but only on the Blue Lions route. You can however, abandon his rear end on the Black Eagles route and will not get a game over if he dies, and no one's stopping you from letting Bernie watch it happen. This will however lead to Hubert being mildly disappointed that he has to do a lot of paperwork to replace him, so I hope you can stomach that. lol. Eimi posted:becoming a shell of who is out of fear of assassins and living trapped in his room. drat I guess I have to buy it now
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 19:39
|
|
|
IMO leaving him alive also works great. Edelgard gives him a huge promotion to Archbishop of the Southern Church and sets him up in Garreg Mach. This makes him a giant target for assassinations from the Central Church, so he spends his time hiding in his chambers growing ever more paranoid about assassins. I like him having to live like that more than I like him dying, honestly. Bernie started hiding in her room as a way to escape from her dad, but now that her dad is a paranoid recluse hiding in his room she's free to go anywhere and I like the reversal of fortune there. indigi posted:very weird characterization given the entirety of Three Houses but I suppose the time skip made her more selfish It's a gamble. Brigid loses a lot if she dies, but they also gain a lot, status-wise, by having a queen that's able to claim a share of credit for Edelgard's victory.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 19:58
|
|
|
Khizan posted:It's a gamble. Brigid loses a lot if she dies, but they also gain a lot, status-wise, by having a queen that's able to claim a share of credit for Edelgard's victory. absolutely but she could secure that by sending some of Brigid’s top generals and warriors in her stead, in that situation being a front line fighter is almost vain
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 20:05
|
|
|
Notably in Golden Wildfire, Petra notes that Edelgard gave her explicit permission to surrender and change sides if her life was in danger.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 20:06
|
|
|
indigi posted:absolutely but she could secure that by sending some of Brigid’s top generals and warriors in her stead, in that situation being a front line fighter is almost vain I mean this is both Fodlan and a Musou where having power tends to mean you have to be a massive rear end kicker so it being Petra specifically matters. Since she, like Holst, even without a crest are individually crazy good fighters.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 20:12
|
|
|
also she's the warrior queen of Brigid. I dunno if it's ever explicitly stated how royalty works, but I'm pretty sure it's the root of her egalitarian worldview and I don't think she can actually decide that she's too important and that someone else should fight in her stead and still command sovereignty over her people.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 20:16
|
|
|
Zulily Zoetrope posted:also she's the warrior queen of Brigid. I dunno if it's ever explicitly stated how royalty works, but I'm pretty sure it's the root of her egalitarian worldview and I don't think she can actually decide that she's too important and that someone else should fight in her stead and still command sovereignty over her people. Yeah something she mentions is that in Brigid there is no specific warrior class, everyone is a warrior and capable and expected to defend their homes. (Where she talks to Shez about they've never had mercenaries there.) Before inviting Shez to return there with her to be a 'mercenary'
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 20:22
|
|
|
indigi posted:because as a queen with no heir joining a foreign war because of your personal friend is a very bad idea It's because no matter how much she personally likes her classmates, she's still a hostage. This is made very clear on the Blue Lion route when you capture/recruit her. The interlude Eimi mentions where Edelgard honors her death is instead Hubert mentioning she's been captured and Edelgard instead going "We'll have to... reconsider our relationship with Brigid," which totally isn't a very uncomfortable turn of phrase. Edelgard has very much stuffed her into a "Come back with your shield or on it" situation in regards to the mission you run into her on. Petra's feelings on who she's working with is also made pretty clear in camp, where she mentions she gives precisely zero shits about killing Empire soldiers, she's just uncomfortable potentially fighting her classmates.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 20:30
|
|
|
Eimi posted:I mean this is both Fodlan and a Musou where having power tends to mean you have to be a massive rear end kicker so it being Petra specifically matters. Since she, like Holst, even without a crest are individually crazy good fighters. for sure but like I said then just move Brigid’s independence condition to after the campaign rather than a secret coronation, then she has an in-universe reason to see it through personally
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 20:32
|
|
|
i like petra i think it's cool when she does critical hits to melt enemies and also when she does double attacks to melt enemies
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 20:33
|
|
|
“I will remove you” is my favorite crit line
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 20:36
|
|
|
Zulily Zoetrope posted:also she's the warrior queen of Brigid. I dunno if it's ever explicitly stated how royalty works, but I'm pretty sure it's the root of her egalitarian worldview and I don't think she can actually decide that she's too important and that someone else should fight in her stead and still command sovereignty over her people. Yeah, Brigid seems to have a very big "If it's important enough for the queen to send somebody to fight, it's important enough for the queen to fight" kind of mindset going on.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 20:41
|
|
|
Khizan posted:Yeah, Brigid seems to have a very big "If it's important enough for the queen to send somebody to fight, it's important enough for the queen to fight" kind of mindset going on. is her father there before her coronation (or grandfather I forget)
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 20:46
|
|
|
indigi posted:is her father there before her coronation (or grandfather I forget) Her grandfather is the current king, her father died leading the invasion of Fodlan.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 20:48
|
|
|
so it’s established that they send heirs rather than royals to lead war efforts on Brigid’s behalf?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 20:52
|
|
|
indigi posted:so it’s established that they send heirs rather than royals to lead war efforts on Brigid’s behalf? I think it was more that her father was king, he died when she was too young to rule, so he had to pick up the crown again after his son's death until she was ready.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 20:53
|
|
|
oh ok that makes sense
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 20:54
|
|
|
Petra not only is down to kill Imperials, but on both Blue Lions and Golden Deer route is actively excited to do so. She wants to murder the poo poo out of the Imperials, she hated her life as an imperial hostage, and she hates the gently caress out of Caspar's dad in particular. She is actually more bloodthirsty on the blue lions route than most of the actual lions, who spend half their camp conversations going 'but is it really right to kill people, even to protect others?' Where as Petra is just like 'I am going to establish a Brigid free of Imperial control, by force, on my own if I need to. Then I'm gonna make it strong enough to be the third power between kingdom and alliance' I haven't actually played eagles route so I have no idea how she works there, but she's pretty great on the two routes so far. Definitely one of the top 10 characters in Hopes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 21:03
|
|
|
ravishing ladyyyyy princess from a foreign land
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 21:19
|
|
|
indigi posted:for sure but like I said then just move Brigid’s independence condition to after the campaign rather than a secret coronation, then she has an in-universe reason to see it through personally Isn't that what the situation is? I thought that regardless of Petra getting officially crowned, Brigid is still a client state of the Empire, with just a personal Petra-Edel agreement in place that it WILL become independent after the ongoing war is won. I didn't get the impression that it was a done deal at all, and that it in fact gave Petra a great reason to be active on the front lines since the quicker the Empire wins, the quicker Brigid is out from under its thumb. (Until she thinks the Empire is losing on the other routes, then it makes sense to switch sides and help ensure sure the Empire loses as quickly as possible to accomplish the same goal by enforcing it on the defeated Empire)
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 22:06
|
|
|
indigi posted:absolutely but she could secure that by sending some of Brigid’s top generals and warriors in her stead, in that situation being a front line fighter is almost vain Something worth mentioning is that Brigid puts a lot of pride in their martial strength and in her Three Hopes paralogue, Petra mentions how she had to deal with raids and assassins every day when she was in Brigid. It probably isn’t the best look optics wise if she sends off top generals and warriors to die while she stays behind in Brigid, where she still will be under threat of death. Additionally, her being friends with the Emperor helps ensure any Brigid soldiers etc don’t get completely screwed or used as cannon fodder alongside solidifying relations between the Empire and Brigid.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 23:30
|
|
|
For the Black Eagles she is doing her best to get Brigid into as strong as position as possible but there is less tension around the issue as with Thales being kicked out pretty much every barrier to Brigid's independence is gone. She has some great supports with Hubert about her position which essentially end with her threatening the empire if they do not fulfill their promises and Hubert complimenting her and saying that it is going to be so much fun working with her in the future as the queen of Brigid.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2022 23:55
|
|
|
Petra hates the Imperial old guard, but seems to like Edelgard and the new guard plenty fine? I really don’t think it’s as dire as all that. As for “come back with your shield or on it”, I don’t recall her ordering anything like that or saying anything like that, either.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2022 00:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 19:45 |
|
|
Forget everything else, I want an FE game set in Brigid.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2022 00:42
|
|
