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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



I think BB is less hands on than most fans think. Like they probably ask stuff like "So do you think anyone will see anything odd about the people you picked?" but if someone is self deluded and arrogant enough not to see it in the first place they probably don't see it upon basic reflection. Its probably rare that BB gets as heavy handed as to be like "Yo, you look like a loving racist. Do something different."

And the one time they kinda DID and clearly sent Amanda out to tell Aaryn "Yo, you being racist. Stop." Aaryn's response was "Why do people always call me racist? Its because I'm beautiful, rich, and southern and they're jealous. God!"

Arrogance is a powerful tool for delusion.

That and it looked like Jackson might have had to pick them spontaneously without DR time. But who knows how that Day 1 is edited?

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Mahoning
Feb 3, 2007


STAC Goat posted:

I think BB is less hands on than most fans think. Like they probably ask stuff like "So do you think anyone will see anything odd about the people you picked?" but if someone is self deluded and arrogant enough not to see it in the first place they probably don't see it upon basic reflection. Its probably rare that BB gets as heavy handed as to be like "Yo, you look like a loving racist. Do something different."

And the one time they kinda DID and clearly sent Amanda out to tell Aaryn "Yo, you being racist. Stop." Aaryn's response was "Why do people always call me racist? Its because I'm beautiful, rich, and southern and they're jealous. God!"

Arrogance is a powerful tool for delusion.

That and it looked like Jackson might have had to pick them spontaneously without DR time. But who knows how that Day 1 is edited?

Right, but they are the ones casting these people. And it's a little exhausting having to watch southern white racists every summer, especially in our current political environment.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Mahoning posted:

Right, but they are the ones casting these people. And it's a little exhausting having to watch southern white racists every summer, especially in our current political environment.

For sure. Its an inherent issue of the fact that CBS casts a handful of people for "diversity" but still casts predominantly young, pretty, privileged, white casts. Somewhere in an alternate dimension nearly identical to ours Big Brother casts 12 persons of color every season and they seem to always target the 4 white people who ride horses early because they "just don't fit in."

There was a good twitter thread on the idea from a member of the recent season of Survivor who dealt with the same kind of casual racism in her season (according to her one player repeatedly used the n word casually and only one person spoke up about it or to her).

https://twitter.com/thejuliacarter/...284056982626305
https://twitter.com/thejuliacarter/...284064297422851
https://twitter.com/thejuliacarter/...284067812261888

STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jun 28, 2019

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Ummm... if you have a majority alliance and there's a thing where you have to divide up into groups with each group competing for a prize shouldn't you be smart enough to sign up for the group that has the least number of your allies in it so that you have an even amount of chances to win all the prizes?

Also, BB has new nominee music. Change made me uncomfortable.

TyrantWD
Nov 6, 2010




STAC Goat posted:

For sure. Its an inherent issue of the fact that CBS casts a handful of people for "diversity" but still casts predominantly young, pretty, privileged, white casts. Somewhere in an alternate dimension nearly identical to ours Big Brother casts 12 persons of color every season and they seem to always target the 4 white people who ride horses early because they "just don't fit in."

There was a good twitter thread on the idea from a member of the recent season of Survivor who dealt with the same kind of casual racism in her season (according to her one player repeatedly used the n word casually and only one person spoke up about it or to her).

CBS don't need to cast more diverse people, they need to do a better job selecting their diverse candidates, knowing that they will have a more difficult battle ahead. The diversity picks need to be more competent and likeable than the average contestant, which I don't think I've seen in Big Brother (if anything, they are usually below average). I've only recently started watching Survivor, but Wendell was a great example of what BB needs - good social game, very competent in challenges, and good mind for the game.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



I mean, I'm not sure what David did that would indicate he was "below average" in competence or likability. Kemi at least made an obvious mistake of not talking to Jackson but that doesn't really explain why Jack was so upset that she dare suggest names to his HOH. And ultimately we're going to be biased judging the competency of players who left the house early because all we saw were their initial mistakes. Dan Gheesling played poorly the first few weeks of his BB career and is remembered as one of the greatest players of all time. We have no idea what kind of played David would have been.

But I think the point is that any time you put 2 black people into a cast with 12-18 white people you're putting them at an inherent sociological disadvantage. So its no real surprise that consistently people of color get targeted early for "not fitting in" or for social clashes and folks like Aaryn or Jackson take a lead role in targeting and ostracizing them while a bunch of other white people just kind of go along to get along around them.

Bucswabe
May 2, 2009


It's amazing how much of a tactical error Ovi made. If you've paid attention to this game over the past, like, 5 seasons there is always a 6-8 person alliance in week 1. And it's always started by 2-3 jock types and their cool friends.

I feel like if you haven't been invited into an alliance by day 3, your best bet is to start organizing the rest of the misfits in the house.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Even that is risky since unless the house is really clearly divided you run better than even odds of someone being in the majority alliance than outside it. And even a Cliff or Kemi might be an "obvious" outsider but maybe after you tell them they go to HOH or tell someone they trust who is in the majority. That's what usually happens in these things. Last year it was people like JC and Kaitlyn effectively running interference for the alliance they didn't know existed. In BB16 you had like Britany go to Derrick/Cody and Nicole turn to Christine. Its tough to work around a house majority of 8 or 9 people.

If I'm Ovi I think my only real play is to lay low, try to win HOH, and then pay attention to who comes to me and who their targets and non-targets are and I try and piece together the big picture. Ideally with at least one trusted ally.

But who knows? Maybe he thought Christie or Ana were that one trusted ally? Its tough to know who you can trust this early.

Bucswabe
May 2, 2009


Yeah, I think that's the correct play. Assume there is a large alliance, lay low and create a hypothesis of who's in the alliance, and see if reality supports the hypothesis.

My main point was that going to the obvious "cool kids" group is probably the riskiest play.

And i don't know if I ONLY have the benefit of hindsight and knowing all the real dealings going on, but in some of these interactions where Ovi is talking to someone he thinks he can trust, the other person is putting out really obvious signals of bullshitting him. I'd like to think I'd be able to pick up on that. BB requires people to lie and act, and I cant imagine most people are very good at it.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
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Yeah, it seemed like a bad read, especially to not assume that the HOH or the pretty people would be in the majority, but its tough to judge from our position. Like these guys in particular were really overt with the "grateful" jokes and all the cutesy looks and smiles. But Ovi doesn't know "grateful" means anything and he doesn't have multiple camera angles and closeups.

Obviously he trusted the wrong people but I can't say I would trust the right ones if I was in his place because I've never been in his place. So the only real answer is to play everything close to the vest and bide your time and collect info. Ovi probably should have done that.

Ace Jameson
Feb 10, 2006

Whee! I'm Dick Tracy! Bang! Take that Pruneface!

The new post-nom music is awful I hate it

TyrantWD
Nov 6, 2010




STAC Goat posted:

I mean, I'm not sure what David did that would indicate he was "below average" in competence or likability. Kemi at least made an obvious mistake of not talking to Jackson but that doesn't really explain why Jack was so upset that she dare suggest names to his HOH. And ultimately we're going to be biased judging the competency of players who left the house early because all we saw were their initial mistakes. Dan Gheesling played poorly the first few weeks of his BB career and is remembered as one of the greatest players of all time. We have no idea what kind of played David would have been.

But I think the point is that any time you put 2 black people into a cast with 12-18 white people you're putting them at an inherent sociological disadvantage. So its no real surprise that consistently people of color get targeted early for "not fitting in" or for social clashes and folks like Aaryn or Jackson take a lead role in targeting and ostracizing them while a bunch of other white people just kind of go along to get along around them.

We barely saw David, but in the short time we did, he made a few big mistakes. Why would you weakly throw your hat in the ring for the counselor position, when he clearly had no strategy to win (if he had a really big personality like Swaggy, I could see the rationale in nominating yourself). Then when he is confronted by the guy in power, instead of lying and playing down his concerns and pretending he wants to work together when he makes it back in the house, he comes across like he would be a huge threat. The only other person to make such a big error early was Kemi by not talking to the guy in power, which is pretty much the cause of a first week nomination in most seasons. I agree that it can be difficult for 2 black houseguests to integrate with 12-14 white houseguests who will naturally gravitate towards each other, but I feel CBS does a particularly bad job with their casting. When was the last time they cast a black houseguest who really excelled in either competitions, strategy, or social game? Maybe Bayleigh would have been a good contestant in a season without Swaggy.

As for Ovi, he was a complete idiot this week (and not just because we have access to information he doesn't). He hears whispers about an 8 person alliance - which means there is an 8 person alliance, and if this is the first he is hearing about it, he is clearly not in it. Now, if you suspect there is a big alliance being formed in the first few days, it probably includes the HoH, so the last person you should be going to with your concerns is the HoH. Speaking to Annalyse about it is fine, I wouldn't expect him to know who the other alliance members are just yet, but at the very least he should know the 2 people whispering and the HoH are 3 of the people who are not on his side.

Twin Cinema
Jun 1, 2006



Playoffs are no big deal,
don't have a crap attack.


The dumb thing with Ovi is that if you know there's an 8-person alliance, and there's only, what, 14 HGs outside of yourself. The chances are pretty high that you'll blab about the alliance to someone in the alliance.

Also, I like when people get mad at other people for playing the game, even though they're doing the same thing.

^burtle
Jul 17, 2001

God of Boomin'



Can we lock in “Aguaman” for this guy?

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Twin Cinema posted:

The dumb thing with Ovi is that if you know there's an 8-person alliance, and there's only, what, 14 HGs outside of yourself. The chances are pretty high that you'll blab about the alliance to someone in the alliance.

Also, I like when people get mad at other people for playing the game, even though they're doing the same thing.

"Hey, lets form an alliance, put up some pawns, make some fake promises to people, and then backdoor X."
"X was talking to someone about maybe getting you up."
"HOW loving DARE X! DOES X EVEN KNOW THIS GAME?! THAT MONSTER!"

BB tradition.

Mahoning
Feb 3, 2007


If she put up Jack it would be an awesome week 1 power move that could backfire but would nonetheless make the game VERY interesting VERY quickly. Which means she’s probably gonna put up Ovi. Because we can’t have nice things.

Ace Jameson
Feb 10, 2006

Whee! I'm Dick Tracy! Bang! Take that Pruneface!

This season seems like it could be great, everyone’s so fast and loose with intel.

ShakeZula
Jun 17, 2003

Nobody move and nobody gets hurt.


Ovi broke one of the cardinal rules of BB: Never tell someone that dinner is ready, or your rear end is going on the block

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Previously on Biiiiiiiiiiiiig Brother...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG_p2fqx8mA

Robnoxious
Feb 17, 2004



BUTT FIRST!

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
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Christie suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks!

"Eh, its Ovi."

Robnoxious
Feb 17, 2004



Oh no... Election puns?

Please no.

Robnoxious
Feb 17, 2004



Who the Hell is Holly?

I watch live feeds and I never see this chick.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
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I don't like her but Kat is the perfect amount of crazy for BB.

I think she might become a HUGE fan favorite unless she goes full on evil mean girl. And even still... People loved Brett.

sportsgenius86
Jun 17, 2008

THE STREAK IS OVER


Are you bitches conspiring against me

Robnoxious
Feb 17, 2004



^^^ God yes, sportsgenius86 ^^^

Point to ponder: Kat has been on the block for a looooong time because the First Week of BB is more closer to 2.
It's easy to spiral and get paranoid over that long of stretch.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Robnoxious posted:

Point to ponder: Kat has been on the block for a looooong time because the First Week of BB is more closer to 2.
It's easy to spiral and get paranoid over that long of stretch.

Yeah. Today is Day 15 and she's been on the block since Day 2 or 3. That's always the toughest one because its so long, you have no experience with it or example of how to behave, and you have no idea who you can trust.

And in fairness, "are you bitches conspiring against me?" is clearly just a bad joke.

But she still crazy.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Early vote. Gonna have some fun with Jason David.

sportsgenius86
Jun 17, 2008

THE STREAK IS OVER


Yea she was saying it in jest but even then, after the third or fourth time I’d want to throw her over the backyard wall.

Mahoning
Feb 3, 2007


Ovi completes the “not young and/or white” set after last week. Well done racist houseguests.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
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Yeah, Kat went a little neurotic but her main problem is she can't read a room and could never tell she was getting on people's nerves.

Lastdancer
Apr 21, 2008


* I'm gonna need some
dog treats for this!!!



STAC Goat posted:

Early vote. Gonna have some fun with Jason David.



Jason David Frank is joining the HGs?

(I Keed)

sportsgenius86
Jun 17, 2008

THE STREAK IS OVER


Okay that was funny. Well done, Kat.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

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These hallway dances are way too much.

I blame Tommy.

Mahoning
Feb 3, 2007


I think we’ve jumped the shark on the little passing eachother in the hallway thing.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
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New Rule: No Eye Contact Or Touching In the DR Hallway!

Robnoxious
Feb 17, 2004



Ovi isn't going anywhere.

Wait what?

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

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Sam and Nick BOTH got positive reactions from Chenbot. That's big.

sportsgenius86
Jun 17, 2008

THE STREAK IS OVER


Ouchhhhh got a unanimous boot

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STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

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sportsgenius86 posted:

Ouchhhhh got a unanimous boot

Poor bastard's getting blindsided too.

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