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BioThermo
Feb 18, 2014



Dark is Netflix's first German-language original show. Set in the town of Winden in the shadow of a nuclear plant set to be decomissioned within the year, the disappearance of a boy echoes events from 33 years prior, and what starts as a town drama unfolds into a slow-burn sci-fi mystery. Season 1 was released in December 2017, and Netflix + Sci-Fi + scenes from the 80s + some younger actors + a town in the shadow of a restricted facility drew a lot of comparisons to Stranger Things, but it's really a very different show, with more restrained performances, a steady build-up, and a much more meticulous storytelling style. At least for season 1. Who knows, maybe it'll go off the rails and turn into . It's also a really well-shot show, with good uses of light and dark, and lots of wide-shot scenes that make the characters seem small. It's no revolution in cinematography, but the shots are composed with care, and despite being set in a rainy town in mid-November, it's pretty to look at.

Season 2 premiers June 21, and creators Baran Bo Odar & Jantje Freise have confirmed that the series has been renewed for a third and final season. So if you're the type of goon who is not subtitle-averse, who wants to wrap their head around some crazy poo poo, and discuss and speculate about what comes next TVIV-style, and you don't want to get into a show that may outrun its staying power, now is the perfect time to get in, get caught up, and try to unravel this show.

S1 Thread

There is a catch though:

https://twitter.com/G0DSFALL/status/942450191793352705

The show is DENSE as far as characters go, and before we've even put all the names and faces together in the present era, the show throws us into storylines from years past, and it's a hell of a thing to try to keep all the names, faces, and relationships straight. People who have finished season 1 can enjoy a spoiler-laden wiki at http://dark.netflix.io . For the rest, I've tried to put together a decently spoiler-free reference for the members of the 4 families central to the plot and noteworthy other characters.

Kahnwald Family


Jonas Kahnwald

The show is really carried by an ensemble cast, but Jonas is the ostensible main character. The show starts with him returning to school in November following his father's suicide in June. Was previously romantically close with Martha Nielsen, is good friends with Bartosz Tiedemann.
S1 recap: If you watched season 1, you do not need a recap for Jonas.

Michael Kahnwald

Jonas' troubled father. His suicide by hanging is the opening scene of the show.
S1 recap: Ditto as for Jonas. The only spoiler that would go here is too big a spoiler to have as the first spoiler.

Hannah Kahnwald

Jonas' mother, Michael's widow, a freelance masseusse who even massages nuclear plant workers. Has an obsession with, and is having an affair with Ulrich, her friend's husband. Manages to be the worst without being closely connected to the sinister things going on in season 1.
S1 recap: In 1986, she gives a false surprise sex accusation that gets Ulrich thrown in jail, and she convinces Katharina that Regina is responsible for it. In 2019, Ulrich ends their ongoing affair after Mikkel's disappearance. When confronted by Katharina over the affair, she claims it's over and was all Ulrich's doing while it lasted. She blackmails Aleksander with documents pretaining to his false identity for the purpose of getting back at Ulrich.

Ines Kahnwald

Michael's mother, Jonas' grandmother, estranged from them following the death of Michael. Identifiable by a mole on her face.
S1 Recap: As a nurse in 1986, she tends to Mikkel's wounds and ultimately adopts him as her son. In 2019, she reads his suicide note and learns the truth about Mikkel/Michael just after his disappearance. Gives the letter to Jonas after he had burned his own well-worn copy.

Daniel Kahnwald

Ines' father and Winden police chief in 1953.
S1 recap: He investigates the bodies of Erik and Yasin dumped on the site of the nuclear plant's construction.



Nielsen Family


Ulrich Nielsen

A police investigator assigned to the case of a missing child that echoes his own brother's disappearance 33 years earlier. Married to Katharina and having an affair with Hannah. Estranged from his parents. Would kill baby Hitler.
S1 recap: In 2019, he investigates the disappearance of Erik but learns nothing other than that he was in a low-level dealing operation with his father. After Mikkel's disappearance he breaks it off with Hannah. He discovers that the boy's body found in the woods belongs to Mads. When Jana tells him she saw a man with a messed up left ear in both 1986 and 2019, that tips him off to first meet with Helge at the nursing home and later follow him into the Winden caves. In 1986, he's a rebel who probably grafittied the nuclear plant parking lot, and ignores Hannah in favor of Katharina. This results in a false surprise sex allegation and his brief jailing. In 1953, he fails to find old Helge (who went to 1986) but does meet Agnes and Tronte, and eventually young Helge. Wanting to prevent the future abductions, he chases and tries to kill Helge, stashing his body in the bunker. He is arrested by Egon before escaping back into the caves.

Mads Nielsen

Ulrich's younger brother, whose disappearance in 1986 broke his family and led to the rebellious teen Ulrich growing up to be a police officer.
S1 recap: His body arrives in the bunker in 2019 via wormhole, witnessed by Peter. Tronte helps move the body, under Claudia's instruction, to where it was found during the search for Mikkel.

Katharina Nielsen

Ulrich's huband, principal of the Winden high school, and mother to 3 children. Is friends with Hannah and holds a grudge against Regina.
S1 recap: In 1986, Ulrich ignores Hannah to be with Katharina. Hannah witnesses them having sex and reports it to Egon as a surprise sex, getting Ulrich thrown in jail. Hannah convinces Katharina that Regina was responsible, and Katharina + Ulrich confront Regina over this before she is rescued by Aleksander. Katharina also insists to Ulrich that they won't have any kids together (lol). In 2019, she runs a meeting to discuss Erik's disappearance, and later discovers one of Hannah's hairs on Ulrich's sweater. Ulrich denies all involvement with Hannah. Following Mikkel's disappearance and her growing suspicion, she fights with Reginabut ultimately figures out the affair is with Hannah and Regina did nothing to wrong her. Confronts Hannah, who lies that the affair was Ulrich's idea.

Mikkel Nielsen

The youngest Nielsen kid. Aspiring magician and Harry Houdini fan.
S1 recap: Somehow passes through the cave in 2019 and winds up in 1986. Insists he's from the future, tries to get back through the caves, but hurts his ankle and winds up stuck in 1986. Adopted by Ines and grows up to be Michael. Leaves behind a map of all his explorations of the caves that Jonas ultimately finds.

Martha Nielsen

The middle Nielsen kid. Likes theatre. Had a thing with Jonas, now dating Bartosz.
S1 recap: Is at the caves when Mikkel disappears. Has a bit of an onstage breakdown when performing as Ariadne. Reingites her old passion with Jonas, kissing him, but he ultimately rejects her without explanation when

Magnus Nielsen

The eldest Nielsen kid, identifiable by his stupid haircut and by towering over all the other youths. Has an easy-going attitude, and also a thing for Franziska.
S1 recap: Also at the caves when Mikkel poofs. Kind of follows Franziska and learns about her secretive nature. They hook up, but she insists that he not know everything about her. Also punches a wall real hard.

Tronte Nielsen

Ulrich's father, identifiable by a birthmark on his forehead.
S1 recap: In 1953, he moves to Winden with his mother and befriends Claudia. We see severe cigar burns on his forearm as well. In 1986, he's having an affair with Claudia and gets stood up for a fling while she is spelunking. He was also with Claudia when Mads disappeared, although Jana covered for him when questioned by the police. In 2019 comes to the bunker when Peter discovers Mads' body and helps move it to the woods.

Jana Nielsen

Ulrich's mother and Tronte's wife. Still holds onto hope that Mads may be alive somewhere.
S1 recap: In 1953, it's mostly a cameo where Ulrich learns about the bodies at the nuclear site. In 1986 comes down hard on Egon after Ulrich's arrest and has him thrown off the case. In 2019, she reveals to Ulrich that she was about to leave Tronte due to his affair with Claudia before Mads vanished. She saw 1986 Helge (his identity unbeknownst to her) arguing with Noah in 1986 and saw him again in 2019. Her telling Ulrich this fact sets off his journey to 1953.

Agnes Nielsen

Tronte's mother, Ulrich's grandmother. Comes to Winden in 1953. Fancy dresser.
S1 recap: In 1953, rents a room from the Tiedemann's in what will become the future Nielsen residence. Claims that her husband is dead and was a priest but not a godly man. Lends a dress to Doris and maybe there's something romantic brewing between the two women.



Doppler Family


Charlotte Doppler

Winden's police chief.
S1 recap: In 1986 she collects and draws pictures of the birds that have fallen out of the sky, and meets Jonas as he emerges from the cave. In 2019, birds are falling from the sky again. Tries to comfort the Oberdorfs over Erik's disappearances. Isn't sleeping in the same room as Peter. Suspends Ulrich when he assaults Helge at the nursing home. When she's able to explore the nuclear plant grounds, discovers the tire tracks leading to the cave, a scrap of paint from a containment drum, and the sealed cave door. Upon receiving the message from Ulrich that question is when, not where, is Mikkel, she goes through the archives and discovers the mugshot photo of Ulrich from 1953. Is suspicious that Peter wasn't there when Mikkel vanished, but thinks that he was with Benni.
If you drink every time that Charlotte makes a face that says, "I know something strange is going on here, I just can't place my finger on what," you'll maintain an excellent buzz while bingeing the series.

Helge Doppler

Charlotte's dementia-ridden father in law, cared for in an assisted living facility. Identifiable by scarring over his left ear and face. Prone to wandering off. In 1986, he works as a guard for the nuclear plant, and in 1953 we see him being tutored by Claudia.
S1 recap: In 1953, he's bullied for his wealth and tutored by Claudia. Manages to get Gretchen lost in the caves. Ulrich tries to kill him, but he wakes up in the bunker and gets pulled through to 1986 when the wormhole opens. In 2019, he's senile but attempts to return through the caves to 1986, where he confronts 1986 Helge and tells him that Noah is evil. When that fails, he rams his car, injuring 1986 Helge and killing 2019 Helge. 1986 Helge is in every loving time period acting as Noah's henchman. At one point resists and attempts to halt Noah's experiments but ultimately relents despite his misgivings. Is easy spooked and withdrawn due to his childhood trauma.

Peter Dopppler

Charlotte's husband, Helge's son, Jonas' therapist. His marriage to Charlotte is in shambles due to time he's spent with a transvestite sex worker.
S1 recap: Onthe night of Mikkel's disappearance, he was resisting his desire to be with Benni, and retreated to the bunker, where the wormhole opened and dropped Mads' body. He summoned Tronte, and ultimately Claudia shows up to tell them what to do next. At the end, we see he and Tronte are acting according to Claudia's wishes, although Peter notes that some pages from Claudia's notebook have been torn out.

Franziska Doppler

Charlotte and Peter's daughter. Secretive and flaunts the law. Hates her parents' sham marriage and wants to leave Winden.
S1 recap: After overhearing Bartosz talking about Erik's drug stash, she arrives at the caves first to pick it up, meeting up with the others in the process. In the wake of Mikkel's disappearance she grows close to Magnus and confides that she hates the falseness of people in the town. They start sleeping together but she insist on keeping him at arms length.

Elizabeth Doppler

Charlotte and Peter's younger daughter. Is deaf, and is known to not respect her older sister's secrecy.
S1 recap: She's making eyes at Yasin, a deaf boy who ultimately gets abducted. When her parents fail to pick her up on time, she walks home through the woods and meets Noah, who gives her the pocketwatch to deliver to Charlotte.

Bernd Doppler

Helge's father. He oversees the opening of the Winden nuclear plant in 1953, and we see him retire from his position in 1986, passing the torch off to Claudia Tiedemann. Walks with a cane, then in a wheelchair.
S1 recap: In 1953 he's trying to break ground on the nuclear plant, but the crime scene of the two dead boys is a wrench in that plan. In 1986, he downplays the incident over the summer, but does reveal to Claudia where the cache of excess contaminated material from the explosion is kept.

Greta Doppler

Helge's mother. She sternly runs the Doppler family estate.
S1 recap: She's harsh to Helge when he gets his clother dirty, and later worries that her sternness caused Helge to run away. When she is talking to Noah, she admits that she didn't want a child, and that Helge may not be Bernd's son.


Tiedemann Family


Claudia Tiedemann

Director of the Winden nuclear plant in 1986, taking over from Bernd Doppler.
S1 recap: In 1953, she tutors Helge and meets Tronte, and their affinity for each other causes Helge to lure her dog, Gretchen, into the caves. Adult Claudia also brings the blueprints to HG Tannhaus. In 1986, she's having an affair with Tronte and her career drive has strained her relationship with Regina. She uncovers a big imbalance in the plant's numbers, and Bernd reveals that in the wake of Chernobyl some things are better left covered up. This leads her into the caves where she discovers a stockpile of excess contaminated material, as well as Gretchen the time-traveling pooch. This prompts her to read the book by HG Tannhaus that Helge gave her. In 2019, she comes to Bartosz at home and asks to him give Regina a picture of mother + daughter. She admits that she made many mistakes and wants to set things right. We see her standing with a gun in the woods when the device is activated.

Regina Tiedemann

Claudia's daughter, married to Aleksander and mother to Bartosz. She runs the Winden Waldhotel, which is the former Doppler family estate converted to a hotel. There's bad blood between her and Katharina.
S1 recap: In 1983, we see her resenting her mother's career ambitions, driving her into isolation and self-harm. When she's tied up outside the caves as a prank by Ulrich, it's all that Hannah needs to makethe the scapegoat for a false surprise sex allegation against Ulrich. When confronted by Katharina over this, the new-in-town Aleksander protects Regina. In 2019, Regina has told Bartosz that Claudia is dead, and the hotel is struggling due to the disappearances. She hides, but then reveals when confronted by Aleksander, her breast cancer diagnosis. She also discovers the crazy poo poo the Stranger papered the walls of his room with.

Aleksander Tiedemann

Married Regina and took his wife's name. Is the director of the Winden nuclear plant in 2019, which is set to be decomissioned within the year.
S1 recap: In 1986 we see him running from dogs, shot, and with documents for a false identity. After saving Regina, he gets a job at the nuclear plant from Claudia, and welds a door in the cave shut to keep the public from knowing about the cache of nuclear waste. In 2019, he's taken over as director, and stonewalls efforts to search the grounds following child disappearances. Coordinates with a Torben to have the nuclear waste moved into a truck and not looked at too closely by the police. Discovers documents and learns of Regina's diagnosis. Is blackmailed by Hannah to destroy Ulrich.

Bartosz Tiedemann

Regina and Aleksander's son, Jonas' best friend. While Jonas was committed following Michael's suicide, Bartosz covered by claiming that Jonas was visiting France. Is dating Martha.
S1 recap: After he recovers Erik's drug stash and phone, he gets in touch with Noah. When Martha confesses her kiss with Jonas, Bartosz breaks off his friendship with Jonas. We see him apparently becoming allied with Noah.

Egon Tiedemann

Claudia's father, an alcoholic police inspector who works on the case of Mads' disappearance.
S1 recap: In 1953, works too hard, straining his relationship with Doris. He investigates the bodies dumped at the nuclear site and the disappearance of Helge. He apprehends Ulrich. In 1986, he's single and taken to drinking. He was supposed to question Helge about his movements when Mads disappeared but didn't. He arrests Ulrich on false surprise sex allegations but this ultimately gets him removed from Mads' case.

Doris Tiedemann

Egon's wife and Claudia's mother. Sublets their house to Agnes Nielsen in 1953.
S1 recap: May have been seduced by Agnes. Leaves Egon and is out of the picture by the time 1986 rolls around.


Other Characters

The Stranger

Rents a room in Regina's hotel in 2019 and procedes to decorate it conspiracy theory-style. Has scars around his neck and across his back. Is clearly in-the-know regarding the events of season 1.
S1 recap: Prevents Jonas from blinking himself out of existence by rescuing Mikkel in 1986. Briefly converses with Jonas in 2019 as well. Asks for the repaired time machine in 1986, fueling it with Cesium-137 stolen from the truck in 2019. Activates the device in 2019 under the caves in an effort to destroy the wormhole. Refuses to let Jonas out of the bunker in 1986, revealing himself to be adult Jonas.

HG Tannhaus

Clockmaker and science writer. Author of the book, "A Journey Through Time," discussing the theory of time travel. Charlotte's grandfather.
S1 recap: In 1953, he runs into Ulrich and discovers the smartphone in the pocket of his jacket when it's left behind. Claudia brings him the blueprints of her time machine. In 1986, he discussed time travel with the stranger and was taken aback when shown the completed broken machine from the future, but ultimately gives the brand new one to him, citing thathe clearly had already done so.

Torben Wöller

A police officer who works under Charlotte. His eyepatch is never explained. He seems competent but Charlotte doesn't seem to trust him with the most sensitive tasks. So far he's a pretty minor character but I'm including him here so he has a name other than eyepatch cop.
S1 recap: Charlotte brushes off his help when he offers it (namely because she was trying to figure out wtf Peter was doing when Mikkel went missing). When Hannah blackmails Aleksander, he calls up Torben to help destroy Ulrich. Aleksander also talks to him over the phone about the truck with all the hidden nuclear waste, suggesting that Torben is the one making sure that no one looks too closely at the truck parked in the truck stop for a few days to dodge inspections.

Noah

The new priest in town, 1986. Has a tatoo of the emerald tablet across his back. Appears to be the primary antagonist of the show.
S1 recap: In 1953 he comforts Greta following the disappearance of Helge. In 1986 he's calling the shots with Helge as his henchman, carrying out time travel experiments on the abducted children. Claims that there is no god, and the small evil of his experiments is in service of a greater good. Confronts Jonas in the hospital and has Helge throw him in the bunker. In 2019 he shows up when Bartosz claims he's meeting Erik's dealer. Makes predictions to Bartosz, which comes true, convincing Bartosz to his side. Claims that Claudia is on the side of dark, and he is on the side of light.

Unmarked season 1 spoilers after this post

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CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001


Oven Wrangler

Thanks for this true effortpost, I'll be getting depressed, confused and rained on the coming days in Winden.

One character that was only in season one for 5 seconds and I suspect will get a bigger presence is Welcome To The Future Girl:



She is played by the insanely talented Lea van Acken who is way too good to just appear randomly.

Also, after watching Chernobyl this was funny to see in my S1 rewatch





edit: ep 1 thoughts



-There was not enough rain, S2 already a letdown
-Magnus got a new terrible haircut
-Future Elisabeth is terrifying, there was always something slightly off about her but death cult leader was not what I expected
-I'm sure that was Agnes Nielsen in the 1921 picture next to Noah
-One Eyed Cop just got a lot more interesting
-Not sure what to think of Adam, his Red Skull look seems out of place

CeeJee fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Jun 21, 2019

Joust
Dec 7, 2007

No Ledges.


Was thinking I had to rewatch s1 again before s2 and the OP confirmed it.

BioThermo
Feb 18, 2014



I happened to check how much time was left during the final episode before I would have to wait a year for the conclusion, and it captured my feeling perfectly.

21 Hoot Salute
Feb 8, 2005

Night-time, turn around
Lonely is the city tonight
Night-time, all around
Lonely in the city tonight





Awesome OP!

5 episodes in and loving it so far.

Ep 5: That bit where old Ulrich was in the police car in 1987 and saw Magnus and Martha back in time and yelling about how they were his kids right after the Mikkel incident was an amazing bit of dark humor.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Just finished the 7th episode. If it keeps up like that into the third season, everything will turn out to be a huge grandfather paradox, because everyone had kids with everyone else in some period of time.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Gee, season 3 is going to become even more complicated to follow?

CodeJanitor
Mar 30, 2005
I still can't think of anything to say.

Nap Ghost

Combat Pretzel posted:

Just finished the 7th episode. If it keeps up like that into the third season, everything will turn out to be a huge grandfather paradox, because everyone had kids with everyone else in some period of time.

This was my assumption in the first couple of episodes in the first season when they kept saying "Everyone that lives here stays here" over and over.

I figured Jonas and Martha were the two that were the genetic origins of the entire town that spread outward into the past and future with ever increasingly complicated genetic family trees being formed and looping back on themselves. The image of "time" shown in the second season had a look of dna double helix so I thought that was where it was going then the end of the second season happened...

Anyways, I am impressed that even knowing what was going to happen in most situations it still managed to surprise me again and again. Also all the actors in this are overall quite good.

BioThermo
Feb 18, 2014



Combat Pretzel posted:

Gee, season 3 is going to become even more complicated to follow?

Maybe, maybe not. Claudia talks about a world without Jonas (and presumably without the loop, so no Charlotte, Doppler kids, or Michael), so there might only be one alternate world in the 'multiverse,' where Noah grows up to be a priest in 1953 and nothing else happens, the Nielsen family happens normally, Claudia never disappears, and Hannah remains a bad person. That world may not be difficult to follow.

Also by the end of season 1, we know Jonas becomes the stranger, Claudia becomes a time travelling old lady, and we know next to nothing about Noah. By the end of season 2, we've seen much more of the arcs of Jonas, Claudia, and Noah, including the end point of Noah/Claudia, but we've still got a lot to go in their total arcs. (if you start from the "beginning" of Claudia's arc, we only have a complete story up to the point where she disappeared in 1987 and know nothing of what happens between then and her appearances in season 1). I suspect the final season would step back from going big on the alternate timeline beyond what is necessary to complete the arcs of Jonas ->stranger, stranger ->adam, 86 Claudia ->19 Claudia, the formation of the travelers, the Noah/elizabeth/charlotte clusterfuck, and whether the loop gets broken or not.

CodeJanitor posted:

I figured Jonas and Martha were the two that were the genetic origins of the entire town that spread outward into the past and future with ever increasingly complicated genetic family trees being formed and looping back on themselves. The image of "time" shown in the second season had a look of dna double helix so I thought that was where it was going then the end of the second season happened...

Of course, if we get some Jonas + Martha = Adam +Eve stuff going on, ignore my above prediction about arc completions, lol.

BioThermo fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jun 22, 2019

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010



Soiled Meat

Dark owns and I apparently forgot literally everything that happened last season, but my wife somehow remembered most of it? Still only two episodes in, I'm trying to savor it.

21 Hoot Salute
Feb 8, 2005

Night-time, turn around
Lonely is the city tonight
Night-time, all around
Lonely in the city tonight





Finished the last ep, man this season was a huge loving mindtrip in the best way.

Wish this show got the notoriety it deserves

whos that broooown
Dec 10, 2009


Do not watch this show while drunk. I am loving lost after ep 3.

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013

yospos


Really good season, counting the seconds until season 3.

I was expecting the show to put a nice bow on it and close the story out this season, but nope, now we have two new time periods, alternate dimensions, a family tree bootstrap paradox, two new types of time machines, and half the town is aware of and interacting with time travel now.

Venomous
Nov 7, 2011






Just finished.

Christ.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001


Oven Wrangler

Venomous posted:

Just finished.

Christ.

I need to rewatch the whole thing again, a lot of season 1 scenes will be totally different knowing what comes in s2.

Season 1: Run deaf girl, run away from the Scary Man !

Season 2: Aww, how cute, Noah meets his futurepast love and gives her a present for their daughtermother

Flatscan
Mar 27, 2001

Outlaw Journalist



CeeJee posted:

I need to rewatch the whole thing again, a lot of season 1 scenes will be totally different knowing what comes in s2.

Season 1: Run deaf girl, run away from the Scary Man !

Season 2: Aww, how cute, Noah meets his futurepast love and gives her a present for their daughtermother


Oh, a lesson in not changing history from little miss "I'm my own grandma"

OrthoTrot
Dec 10, 2006
Its either Trotsky or its Notsky

I can't believe we've had two twists where a character we didn't know was Jonas turned out to be Jonas. Who will turn out to be Jonas in S3?

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

OrthoTrot posted:

I can't believe we've had two twists where a character we didn't know was Jonas turned out to be Jonas. Who will turn out to be Jonas in S3?
I'm not yet sure I buy Adam being Jonas. The other kids being there, aged, is too good of a red herring. This Jonas killing Martha thing is sorta out of place, considering. Also the disfigured face. --edit: I think it's Bartosz.

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Jun 24, 2019

Av027
Aug 27, 2003
Qowned.

Combat Pretzel posted:

I'm not yet sure I buy Adam being Jonas. The other kids being there, aged, is too good of a red herring. This Jonas killing Martha thing is sorta out of place, considering. Also the disfigured face. --edit: I think it's Bartosz.

I sorta thought this for a second, but Adam comments about Bartosz always "being naive" at one point. As to Adam shooting Martha, consider that the events of this cycle are over for him, the outcomes predetermined, and he's focused on the events of the next cycle. Martha's death is old news for Adam, and probably happened in the same way for him (not making sense at the time to him as young(er) Jonas). Additionally, remember that the gun wouldn't fire for Noah, but would for Agnes. So, though Jonas wanting to kill Martha doesn't make sense, he may have no power to stop himself from doing so, because "that's how it happens" combined with the recurring "I wouldn't exist as I do now if not for the journey I've taken to get to this point", so he shoots Martha without hesitation.

Where I think the next cycle truly diverges is with the otherworld Martha interfering. But maybe not - would Jonas have survived if she hadn't shown up? Seems like a no. Or maybe it's a yes, and the story we get about Adam's disfigurement (via overuse of time travel) is a lie, and it was actually caused by being caught in the apocalypse wave.

OrthoTrot
Dec 10, 2006
Its either Trotsky or its Notsky

Av027 posted:

. Or maybe it's a yes, and the story we get about Adam's disfigurement (via overuse of time travel) is a lie, and it was actually caused by being caught in the apocalypse wave.

I'm with you on Adams scars. Noah and Claudia have spent years (lol) pretty much hopping from one year to the next and they don't have a mark on them. I hope I have skin that good when I'm however old Noah is supposed to be.

Normy
Jul 1, 2004

Do I Krushchev?



Av027 posted:

I sorta thought this for a second, but Adam comments about Bartosz always "being naive" at one point.

Well that goes along nicely with his speech about everyone having 3 lives. The first ending when you lose your naivety.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


I'm 4 episodes in and still loving it. This show is loving great and I cannot wait to figure out more.

I guessed Adam was Jonas about 10 seconds before the reveal but I still think it's weird that the explanation is "time travel did it" when Claudia bebops through time pretty much effortlessly.

Also Elisabeth's sidekick/person has GOT to be somebody's kid or parent or some time travel fuckery, I just don't know who yet.

E: great op

Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Jun 25, 2019

Av027
Aug 27, 2003
Qowned.

Normy posted:

Well that goes along nicely with his speech about everyone having 3 lives. The first ending when you lose your naivety.

Yeah that's a fair point, but he also has the scar on his neck from the noose. Which could of course be faked. Obviously, there is little that these people won't do to further their own ends (or be dragged along by fate, however you choose to see it), so reproducing/faking that scar is right in their wheelhouse. Middle Jonas does of course save Bartosz, along with Franziska and Magnus (who both clearly assist Adam in the futurepast), but an older Bartosz is not seen. Unless he's Adam of course.

I'm glad that though season 2 resolves every single potential plot hole from season 1 (that I saw), but still leaves plenty of mystery for season 3. Bartosz's role, whether Adam is really Jonas, and then the mindfuck ending with Otherworld Martha... This season easily secures this show as my favorite.


e: VVV Oh poo poo, must rewatch scene!

Av027 fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Jun 25, 2019

OrthoTrot
Dec 10, 2006
Its either Trotsky or its Notsky

My own theory on Bartosz: He's the guy Noah kills in the season opening scene.

Flatscan
Mar 27, 2001

Outlaw Journalist



Ravenfood posted:

I guessed Adam was Jonas about 10 seconds before the reveal but I still think it's weird that the explanation is "time travel did it" when Claudia bebops through time pretty much effortlessly.

Claudia uses the clockwork time-machine that's linked to the 33 year cycle though, not the radiation-spewing ball of dark matter that takes you anywhere.

my bat mitzvah ROCKED
Mar 13, 2002

We're still wearing the fucking hats!


It’s crazy how good the second season is.

Av027
Aug 27, 2003
Qowned.

One seriously disappointing thing though - we still don't know what the gently caress happened to Wöller's eye?! It is the true mystery here.

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

SKUX


I'm so glad that someone finally did a thread for this as this is one of the most fascinating shows out currently. Netflix showed some serious vision in bringing over foreign shows and it's interesting seeing these shows as they give a glimpse into other cultures that aren't necessarily available through other means. Shows like this, the Sniffer out of the Ukraine, The Rain, as well as a bunch of cool Korean offerings to name but a few.

But Dark is definitely a stand out.

Flatscan posted:

Claudia uses the clockwork time-machine that's linked to the 33 year cycle though, not the radiation-spewing ball of dark matter that takes you anywhere.

It's entirely possible that Claudia, Magnus, and the other travelers who aren't showing the level of deformity that Adam does simply didn't travel as much between times and spent more time in different times, It's also possible that Adam is significantly older, he obviously went back prior to 1921 in order to build the bunker to begin with so that it would be available in the future. It's also possible that he simply lied about the cause of his disfigurement since he obviously doesn't have any qualms about lying to his younger self. I figure that the 3rd season will clarify that stuff given how good the writers have been about staying consistent.

Something that I think is going play out well for this show is that they aren't doing some open ended monster of the weak formulation with different teams of writers trying or dream up new challenges for their characters to face. They have given themselves 3 seasons/cycles to tell the whole story, meaning that they know what end point they are trying to achieve and I imagine that they had it all plotted out in advance, given what they have done with the first two seasons I have confidence in the creators to bring it to completion topped of with a nice bow.

The only bad thing is now we have to way a year or two for the 3rd season.

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 23 hours!


I really enjoyed both seasons of this show and am looking forward to season 3 however I can't say I loved the "oops there is another dimension we're just springing on your after 2 full seasons of no hints about it!" ending....

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.


Dark remains the only TV show besides The Wire that I've consciously chosen to go back and rewatch in its entirety. And I'm about to do so again. It's neat that it's a show about time fuckery, because that makes rewatching it seem very thematically on point.

I am also slowly, laboriously, developing the slightest semblance of being able to remember who the gently caress any of these people are between scenes.

ArmZ
Jun 5, 2004

You are what you want.





Grimey Drawer

good show, but where can I buy that flashlight?!?!?!?!?!?

ArmZ
Jun 5, 2004

You are what you want.





Grimey Drawer

also, "welcome to the future" is now my line when i own someone in a video game

OrthoTrot
Dec 10, 2006
Its either Trotsky or its Notsky

my bat mitzvah ROCKED posted:

It’s crazy how good the second season is.

Rewatching the first season and it's staggeringly brilliant the way its all intertwined. A lot of crazy stuff from the 2nd season is obviously preplanned, to the point where I am beginning to think the unthinkable - they actually have the whole thing figured out from start to finish. Not just the big picture but the small detail.

When this is all done it's going to be one hell of a piece of work. I hope the ambition of it is influential. This is one of those things where it could only be done through this medium.

CodeJanitor
Mar 30, 2005
I still can't think of anything to say.

Nap Ghost

I want someone to cut this show so there is a version that is played scene by scene in chronological order to see how well it fits together

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001


Oven Wrangler

The whole thing feels like a finely crafted Swiss watch, an pile of gears and springs that seems impossibly complex but if put together just right it works flawlessly.

Between this and Chernobyl it's like there was some breakthrough in casting where a program can read a picture and provide an actor who very closely resembles the person now or at a different age. The likeness of the different age Ulrichs, Alexanders and some others is uncanny and that's just in Germany's limited talent pool. Any English language show or movie should be able to do even better and not have to bother with dodgy CGI aging tech or old/young makeup.

Gromit
Aug 15, 2000

I am an oppressed White Male, Asian women wont serve me! Save me Campbell Newman!!!!!!!


Speaking of CGI, I'm surprised that the effects team didn't ever put a reflection of the dark matter bubble into the visors of the various protective suits. It's like they shot it with that in mind but never bothered.

Skex posted:

I'm so glad that someone finally did a thread for this as this is one of the most fascinating shows out currently. Netflix showed some serious vision in bringing over foreign shows and it's interesting seeing these shows as they give a glimpse into other cultures that aren't necessarily available through other means. Shows like this, the Sniffer out of the Ukraine, The Rain, as well as a bunch of cool Korean offerings to name but a few.

I love high-quality foreign shows but I feel The Rain is a bit weak. I'm not sure what it is I don't like - maybe the writing is lazy? I just watched a trailer for The Sniffer and it looks well shot but the premise seems really dumb. IMDB gives it a good rating, but do you have anything particular to say about it? Is it played serious, or more like a cross between a Jason Statham movie and Limitless like it looks in the trailer?

Scoss
Aug 17, 2015


This show is amazing and I've never heard anyone talk about it, which is a crime. I'm convinced the only thing holding it back from being one of the most popular things on Netflix is the German cast and people poo-pooing subs/dubs, because it's certainly one of the best shows on the platform regardless. You can really tell that the show creators had a strong vision of the complete story in mind from the very beginning, or it would not be possible for everything to be so intricately connected across so many time periods and characters. I have faith that the final season will have a satisfying ending, which so many shows seem to fail to bring home.

My theory is that Martha B comes from a timeline where Jonas successfully "fixes" things and prevents his own existence-- a world that I'm pretty sure Old Charlotte said that she saw -- but there is naturally some unforeseen tangle that motivates Martha B to save Jonas and cause him to exist, because paradoxes.

Normy
Jul 1, 2004

Do I Krushchev?



I really think Ulrich got the worst of this whole situation.

OrthoTrot
Dec 10, 2006
Its either Trotsky or its Notsky

Normy posted:

I really think Ulrich got the worst of this whole situation.

He's a massive prick, to both Katharina and Hannah. And he literally tries to bludgeon a child to death at the end of the first series. Personally it's Mikkel I feel sorry for. Perhaps it's the way the actor plays him but you get a feeling of complete isolation coming off him. And no one who really knows him as an adult seems to actually care about him at all except Jonas.

Katharina, on finding out Michael was her son, seems mostly just angry with Hannah, rather than sad that she effectively just found out her son killed himself.

Someone said this show is great at matching old and young actors. On rewatch it's interesting how they use hairstyle and dress as a way of connecting things. Just little visual hints to help your brain make the necessary connection each time you see someone. I can't put my finger on it but old and young Alexander seems like a good example. The way he's dressed in 1986 seems to just exactly match how he's dressed in 2019, whilst both being of their times.

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muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



I guess one thing I'm unsure of from the finale is whether or not Alternate Martha is a new thing or did Fonas (Future Jonas) meet her too? Because so far it seems like everything that is happening to Jonas happened to Fonas too. Also wondering if it is going to turn out that Noah and Agnes are related to someone else since it was implied they also come from the future.

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