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Live At Five!
Feb 15, 2008


I'm halfway through S3 and it is truly the most insane poo poo imaginable and I loving love it. I'm definitely going to rewatch the season again just to get my head around everything that's happening. I've never enjoyed not knowing what the gently caress is happening more.

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BioThermo
Feb 18, 2014



Get in loser, it's the apocalypse.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.


oh my god i'm so confused right now

i'm going to need to watch this season at least two more times

E: also uhhhhh whoa dark.netflix.io has had a bit of a makeover. Make sure to click the wavy thing bottom right to turn off sound before continuing. You can also set what episode you're up to to filter out spoilers, which is very nifty. It also appears to use a lot of CPU, which sucks.

Fedule fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Jun 28, 2020

BioThermo
Feb 18, 2014



Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Someone much smarter than me is going to have to lay out a point by point recap on how this was coherent.

I did tear up at the ending though.

Here's the endless loop as I understood it on the first pass, feel free to challenge what I missed:


Adam kills home Martha ->
Alt Martha (knowing) brings Jonas to her world ->
Jonas meets Alt Martha (naive, which I'll call her until she shows up at the end of S2) ->
Mads' body shows up in the bunker for Alt Martha (naive) ->
Jonas meets Eve ->
Jonas takes Alt Martha (naive) to the future to meet future Martha->
Jonas and Alt Martha (naive) bang->
They try to prevent the apocalypse but Alt Martha (naive) gets the face cut on the fence ->
The go to confront Eve, Alt Martha (knowing) kills Jonas ->
Alt Martha (naive) cuts her hair and recruits Bartosz to stop the apocalypse ->
Magnus and Franziska stop them and bring Alt Martha (naive) to adam's home world, 2053 ->
(I'm not sure it's explicitly stated but this would be the point where Alt Martha (naive, now knowing) shows up at the end of S2 to bring Jonas to her world, presumably sent by Adam) ->
Adam sends her to meet (untravelled) Jonas in 1888 ->
She gives 1888 (untravelled) Jonas the god particle/cesium/dark matter then goes back to 2053 ->
1888 Jonas eventually turns into 1921 Adam ->
Adam kills home Martha ->
Adam erases Alt Martha (naive) in 2053 nothing happens -> Claudia's endgame.

Alternate path:
Alt Martha (knowing) gets intercepted by Bartosz before meeting Jonas, she's brought to Eve, gets given biggass scar on her face ->
Alt Martha (knowing) meets her cleft lipped sons -> Kills Jonas, evetually becomes Eve
cleft lipped sons do stuff to maintain the loop ->
Jonas who never meets alt Martha grow up to the stranger we know from S1 under Claudia ->
Jonas who never meets alt Martha winds up in 1888 after S2 and turns into Adam ->
Adam kills home Martha

So it's not completely coherent, but Adam takes steps manipulating alt Martha into a position where he can kill her + her child, and Eve takes steps manipulating alt Martha into taking her place as Eve, creating Adam. I think.

Normy
Jul 1, 2004

Do I Krushchev?



Someone please make a chronological edit for each character in both worlds.

LinkesAuge
Sep 7, 2011


Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Only the Germans could make a show this loving miserable.

This was a happy ending for our standards.

I mean we literally invented nihilism so nothing existing at all sounds fine by german philosophy and the show certainly plays with that idea a lot though with a hopeful coat of paint on top of it.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

BioThermo posted:

Here's the endless loop as I understood it on the first pass, feel free to challenge what I missed:
I think this gets complicated some more because of that Mobius loop style of flipflopping of the loop, that got introduced. One loop where alt-Marta didn't show up and one where she did, each loop causing the other.

Tortilla Maker
Dec 13, 2005
Un Desmadre A Toda Madre


It was never explained who Peter's mother was, correct? We just assume that Helge banged someone at some point in time? I initially thought Peter was going to be Hannah and Egon's love child but that turned out to be Silja.

dihaploidy
Oct 31, 2010




Buglord

Tortilla Maker posted:

It was never explained who Peter's mother was, correct? We just assume that Helge banged someone at some point in time? I initially thought Peter was going to be Hannah and Egon's love child but that turned out to be Silja.

If it's specifically mentioned in the show I missed it, but the guide website family tree has your back, and fills in any gaps that we didn't observe:


Edit to avoid double posting:
I just finished it and haven't gathered my thoughts enough to say much more than I loved it. As much as I look forward to re-watching to catch more details, this is also the kind of show that makes me wish I could wipe my memory and experience it all for the first time again, what a blast. As already mentioned by others about the finale, the greatest mystery remains Wöller's eye injury.

dihaploidy fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Jun 28, 2020

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 9, 2007

Aloy, Despite the Nora


So I guess Clausen was just an unimportant nobody who bumbled his way into starting the apocalypse.

Xinlum
Apr 12, 2009

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a Dark Knight



Spoilers for last episode

Who carved the tunnel in the origin universe? Or were they in the Alt universe when they activated the device that put them in the time stream?

BioThermo
Feb 18, 2014



Shimrra Jamaane posted:

So I guess Clausen was just an unimportant nobody who bumbled his way into starting the apocalypse.

Yeah, but he also was clued in about Aleksander in Winden by a mysterious letter he received, presumably from the Unknown, since we see them taking the steps to ensure the matter is created in both worlds.

Xinlum posted:

Spoilers for last episode

Who carved the tunnel in the origin universe? Or were they in the Alt universe when they activated the device that put them in the time stream?

They're in Jonas' world (based upon the placement of the bus stop or upon the direction that Jonas' hair parts. alt-world scenes are shot mirrored). They travel into the closed tunnel and need to be there at that moment to enter the origin world.

Comments on the cast:
I think the only cast members who don't show up at least once this season are:
Daniel Kahnwald
Young Helge
Grandma Ines
Clausen (except as a corpse shot)
Young Agnes
Grandma Jana
Young Aleksander
+ a few plant workers and police.

I might have missed some, but it seems like they got just about everyone out for at least one scene even though some seemed a bit superfluous (old Egon for meeting alt world Hannah, wtf?)
Young Peter was more spot-on casting, you knew right away who he was.
Mikkel barely came up to Ines' shoulders in Season 1, now he as tall or taller than her. Did he have any lines at all? Maybe his voice changed too much.
Claudia killed it as always, team Claudia for life. Cruel of them to fake us out with aging up Noah and Jonas to their adult actors but keeping adult Claudia around for a few scenes longer.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.


Okay is there any way to kill the fancy swirling visuals on the guide website? At least I think that's what the problem is; something about that site is straining the poo poo out of my laptop CPU. I have to browse it on my phone or my desktop just to free myself of the fan noise.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 9, 2007

Aloy, Despite the Nora


I feel like this season could have been two seasons but they were really obsessed with the Three thing.

Zazz Razzamatazz
Apr 19, 2016

No hunks allowed, ya dangus

Almost halfway through my takeaway so far:

https://i.imgur.com/SBvhCDh.mp4


Also:
♪ I bless the rains down in Africa Winden ♫

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.


Lmao the new Guide website drains the battery on my iPad faster than it charges what the hell are they doing

BioThermo
Feb 18, 2014



The white devil deceived Adam and Eve and cast them out of paradise.

Duzzy Funlop
Jan 13, 2010


We real cool. We
Left school. We

Lurk late. We
Strike straight. We

Sing sin. We
Thin gin. We

Jazz June. We
Die soon.


I'm two episodes deep, and what in the actual gently caress have they done

Kawalimus
Jan 17, 2008

Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism


Finished the series. And I have to say the two worlds thing finally broke my mind and I simply could not follow what was going on most of the time. But I think I at least got the gist of it by the end. Maybe I should have rewatched before starting but I don't know it would have helped

Kawalimus fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Jun 28, 2020

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 9, 2007

Aloy, Despite the Nora


Someone is going to make an incredibly detailed chart of all the time and cross world fuckery and itís going to be less intelligible than Time Cube.

LinYutang
Oct 12, 2016

NEOLIBERAL SHITPOSTER


VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO!!!


Binged the season and it was absolutely incredible. Dark should absolutely stand out as one of the best television series ever made.

Alris
Apr 20, 2007

Welcome to the Fantasy Zone!

Get ready!


(Finale spoiler) I may have missed a connection along the way, but why are Aleksander Tiedemann (Plant Director) and by extension Bartosz missing at the end? Was there a revelation regarding Aleksander's family history that I missed somewhere?

An updated family tree can't come soon enough.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 9, 2007

Aloy, Despite the Nora


Alris posted:

(Finale spoiler) I may have missed a connection along the way, but why are Aleksander Tiedemann (Plant Director) and by extension Bartosz missing at the end? Was there a revelation regarding Aleksander's family history that I missed somewhere?

An updated family tree can't come soon enough.

Alexander is around but he would have never met Regina in the woods so there is no Bartosz

Tortilla Maker
Dec 13, 2005
Un Desmadre A Toda Madre


Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Alexander is around but he would have never met Regina in the woods so there is no Bartosz

That's my understanding as well as it was Ulrich and Katharina who would always pick on Regina. So no Ulrich means no event that led her to be tied up at that time.

Normy
Jul 1, 2004

Do I Krushchev?



Mine welt...........

und deine.

ymgve
Jan 2, 2004




Offensive Clock

Just started watching Season 3 episode 1, and drat, for someone who's traveled to multiple time periods and met several time shifted versions of multiple people, Jonas sure seems to be slow in realizing this Martha is not yet the one that brought him to this universe

DoYouHasaRabbit
Oct 8, 2007


Checking in at episode 7 and yes my brain is broken. I keep on running through family trees and going and circles and it's fantastic. I love this show.

Evil Trout
Nov 15, 2004

Despite rumors to the contrary, I do not love cocks.

I just finished the series and I have to say it didnít disappoint. Itís so wonderfully dense and well executed.

Tortilla Maker
Dec 13, 2005
Un Desmadre A Toda Madre


When exactly is it revealed that The Unknown (son of Jonas and other-Martha) fathered Tronte with Agnes? Is it captured in Eve's family tree mural?

blue squares
Sep 28, 2007


Soiled Meat

I must be the only one that found season 3 a disappointment. Too convoluted but I did like the ending

RevKrule
Jul 9, 2001

Thrilling the forums since 2001

blue squares posted:

I must be the only one that found season 3 a disappointment. Too convoluted but I did like the ending

It's not that I found season 3 a disappointment so much as I missed the complex family drama part that was much more prevalent in season 1 and 2. Season 3 was very action and reveal focused (as it should be considering it's wrapping up the series) but the cost of that is the daily life drama the permeated the story.

I enjoyed it a lot but I think I would've enjoyed it more if I binged it front to back, the whole thing plays more like a 26 hour movie than a 3 season story.

The moment that really hosed with me this season was straight up Katharina being killed by Helene who then went home and beat the poo poo out of Katharina. The cherry on this is remembering back to Bartosz telling Martha about the dead body in the lake. A close second is Elisabeth and Peter's last day in Bernadette's trailer.

the_enduser
May 1, 2006

[CENSORED]
(Content Violation)



Still watching Season 3 but lmao Jonas def needs a loving shower.

err
Apr 11, 2005

Let us kill them without mercy, and let it be a war of extermination.




Finished it really liked the ending. poor Ulrich and Katherina got the shittiest lifes in the old worlds.

blue squares
Sep 28, 2007


Soiled Meat

Some thoughts


- Hated Katharina's death. Not just because I liked the character, but because it was poor storytelling that happened just to be shocking. It just felt random and like so much of what she had been doing was ultimately pointless. So much wasted screentime
- The cleft-pallette trio was very dumb. Comic-book movie bad. Every other character on the show has motivations and nuance, and this guy is just being as creepy as possible for the fun of it. Plus, what's the point in having three version of yourself if two of them just stand around being weird while one of them does everything?
- The secret villain pulling the strings the whole time and is only revealed in the final act. This is always a bad storytelling choice. It is unsatisfying because it negates so much of what came before. Allow the main characters we already know to be the ones driving the plot forward.
- My biggest complaint is that the show takes far too long for us to understand the characters' motivations. I mean, I like mystery too, and it was fun to watch the show, but it would have been much better if we'd known what Adam and Eva and Claudia all wanted much earlier, so that we could then see them making choices to try to accomplish their goals. I felt I was left guessing for far too long.

Overall, I think the show took a big step backward by diving headfirst into being mysterious for its own sake and lost some of what made it great, which was the character-focused stuff. The entire 3rd world plotline was frustrating and unsatisfying. I wanted to see the characters from S1 & S2 figure out what they needed to do, not see several brand new characters be introduced for the final bit.

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.


Tortilla Maker posted:

When exactly is it revealed that The Unknown (son of Jonas and other-Martha) fathered Tronte with Agnes? Is it captured in Eve's family tree mural?

It's very strongly implied in the bit where he talks with Tronte about how he knew his mother and gives him the Ouroboros bracelet, and yes Tronte's parentage is shown in Eva's big diagram; I want to say Tronte is actually on there twice in order to prevent there from being a huge line around the outside of it. It's not entirely clear because sometimes that diagram isn't completely consistent about how it handles lines branching off of other lines so it can be confusing to glance at. The one on the Netflix Guide is a bit clearer about this.

Kawalimus
Jan 17, 2008

Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism


blue squares posted:

I must be the only one that found season 3 a disappointment. Too convoluted but I did like the ending

It definitely wasn't as impactful to me like the first two parts were. And that's part of just me having a hard time following it which maybe wasn't my fault cause of stuff you pointed out in the other post like not really knowing what anyone's goals were. I also felt like the episodes were a little repetitive where it would be like "You have to do this thing." Then the next episode it would be like "That thing you just did? Well you weren't supposed to do that. That old geezer lied to you and really is just messing everything up. So go do this other thing instead" and just repeated. I also totally agree that the three generation murder trio was silly and unintentionally funny, like something out of WWE wrestling.

But I did ultimately think the end was ok.

Kawalimus fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jun 29, 2020

Xinlum
Apr 12, 2009

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a Dark Knight



I'm willing to bet the 3 copies are around to ensure that the plans succeed. I noticed that the young boy steps thru first to travel, as his future self already exists and therefore nothing bad can happen to him.

err
Apr 11, 2005

Let us kill them without mercy, and let it be a war of extermination.




blue squares posted:

Some thoughts


- Hated Katharina's death. Not just because I liked the character, but because it was poor storytelling that happened just to be shocking. It just felt random and like so much of what she had been doing was ultimately pointless. So much wasted screentime
- The cleft-pallette trio was very dumb. Comic-book movie bad. Every other character on the show has motivations and nuance, and this guy is just being as creepy as possible for the fun of it. Plus, what's the point in having three version of yourself if two of them just stand around being weird while one of them does everything?
- The secret villain pulling the strings the whole time and is only revealed in the final act. This is always a bad storytelling choice. It is unsatisfying because it negates so much of what came before. Allow the main characters we already know to be the ones driving the plot forward.


i agree with those complaints.

Katharina and Ulrich just feels like full doomer vibes.

Normy
Jul 1, 2004

Do I Krushchev?



One thing that bothers me is Adam and Eve simultaneously seemed to be trying to find the origin and fully aware of everything going on. How did they know the end of the cycle? Who told them?

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Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 9, 2007

Aloy, Despite the Nora


So Adam ultimately won since his goal of breaking the loop and destroying his universe happened.

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