Dark Season 3 - "The end is the beginning and the beginning is the end"

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Dark Season 3 - "The end is the beginning and the beginning is the end"

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

I'm 4 episodes in and still loving it. This show is loving great and I cannot wait to figure out more.

I guessed Adam was Jonas about 10 seconds before the reveal but I still think it's weird that the explanation is "time travel did it" when Claudia bebops through time pretty much effortlessly.

Also Elisabeth's sidekick/person has GOT to be somebody's kid or parent or some time travel fuckery, I just don't know who yet.

E: great op

Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Jun 25, 2019

# ¿ Jun 25, 2019 09:18

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 18:57

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

d0s posted:

that last scene had OA vibes I bet they're going to do a tie-in lmao. all those germans are gonna end up in california doing dance routines to get back to der fatheruniverse

e: btw has anyone noticed the conspicuous absence of nazis in this german show about time travel in the 20th century. I bet the "knot" was created by someone going back in time to kill hitler, the current universe is one in which hitler never existed. in the third season they're gonna save hitler

IIRC Germany has very strong and specific laws regarding depictions of Nazis.

# ¿ Jul 6, 2019 21:40

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

LinYutang posted:

Before I start watching this season: does it answer a lot of the open questions from season 1 or does it just create new ones?

It answers a lot but also creates new questions that doesn't feel like the writers are just stacking mysteries on top of mysteries to conceal the fact that they have no idea what they're doing. It's satisfying but also makes me really want to know more.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2019 18:58

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

I'm rewatching both seasons in anticipation and good god this show is great and it seems so so clear that they wrote everything out before starting because of how tight everything is. Martha's lines as Ariadne in an early s1 episode initially seem like they could be a reference to the red thread that Jonas is currently following into a labyrinth, plus her feelings about Mikkel vanishing, but her lines talk A LOT about things that seem like they're references to the new Martha that shows up at the end of s2.

I really hope s3 sticks the landing.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2020 14:42

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

Seems fairly simple to me.

Elisabeth and Noah grow up and have Charlotte. She's sent back in time and raised by HG Tannhaus. Charlotte grows up, marries Peter and has Elisabeth. Elisabeth and Noah grow up and have Charlotte.

:v:

Though yeah every so often I can accept a bunch of similar paradoxes and then one just makes my head start screeching for a second.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2020 09:45

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

Fedule posted:

I reached S2E1 in my rewatch and said "mother fucker" out loud in my empty room

Same.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2020 01:56

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Hannah might be a sociopath.

She's kinda lovely but Ulrich is something loving else.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2020 19:28

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

Adult Bartosz is notably missing from the show so far.

E: unless you think he's who young Noah kills at the start of s2 but even then, a lot's missing.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2020 17:44

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

Fedule posted:

Anyone not?

It won't last but I'll try to hold to one episode a day so I can think about things.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2020 01:02

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

Chadzok posted:

Thoughts on the series.

I was really hoping that the 'shock' ending would be a clear indicator that even Claudia's plan and the prevention of the car accident was part of a much larger interlocking set of loops.. I'm not really sure what to take away from the last scene at the dinner table other than maybe Jonas and Martha end up being real people in the real world.

I did like the Tannhaus storyline right at the end, it's an interesting concept that "trying to invent time travel creates a complete nightmare of paradoxes, the only way out of which is to prevent the time travel happening in the first place, which will inevitably take place, therefore time travel will never be invented." It's just a different story to the one that I thought the show was telling which was "try as hard as you want, there is absolutely no way to break determinism."

I feel like I was right by saying that the universe couldn't break it's own rules. The Deus Ex Machina in this case is the moment at the apocalypse where things can be different for reasons. Personally I don't think this works even as presented, because all the character motivations and actions in between those moments would be identical. Whatever happens in those moments at the apocalypse should have the same inputs and outputs every time other than, perhaps, quantum fluctuations. The Schrodinger Cat situation where Jonas is either saved or not shouldn't work because it's not a closed system and not subject to the whims of truly random quantum phenomena.

It's a fine end to a TV show but as a timeless work of science fiction art I'd much rather have seen sure, the world they wanted to create exists.. as one of a kaleidoscope of interlocking universes that eventually wrap around into creating each other. It would have been much darker but more fitting to the mood tone set throughout the show. I don't think I needed a happy ending. The journey was better than the destination, in this case. Seasons 1 and 2 are timeless classics and the cliffhanger at the end of Season 2 was incredible. Most of Season 3 was also great. When the show started to break its own rules after Adam annihilated Martha it was still enjoyable, but a significant departure from what came before.

I agree with l of this. I also think there are ways to resolve the Schroedinger's Jonas without breaking their deterministic rules. I'll work it out more since I'm phoneposting but I think the last episode feels a lot different from everything else and I wonder if it was somehow changed from their original vision.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2020 17:34

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

Frionnel posted:

Imo she only thinks Jonas is a good name.

Yeah I took it to just be that. At most its another cross-worlds echo like how Ulrich always cheats on his wife and how Peter has a thing for Bernadette/Benjamin in all three universes. Jonas is a name Hannah likes for whatever reason and I don't think its anything beyond that. Probably.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2020 22:08

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

blue squares posted:

I think there was something where there were not just two timelines but two realities. In one reality, which repeated endlessly, Martha died and Jonas hid in the basement and became Adam. In another reality, Martha died and Jonas gets rescued by other-Martha and then does not become Adam.

That's mostly how I read it except I thought I could work out a way where it's one giant loop through both realities. So far I haven't been able to, but I was thinking that somehow Adam kills Martha, altMartha arrives, pulls Jonas out, altMartha kills Jonas and becomes Eva, which causes Eva to do poo poo that makes her NOT pull Jonas out on the second go around, which leads to Adam, who kills Martha. So you end up with each named character living simultaneous loops where each causes the other's existence and deaths but only in the sense that Adam 1 causes Adam 2, who causes Eva 1 who causes Eva 2, who causes Adam 1 etc etc. I couldn't make that work out yet though.

Either way, I think they do obey their rules right up until the last episode.

Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Jul 3, 2020

# ¿ Jul 3, 2020 18:17

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

Duzzy Funlop posted:

Something I forgot to mention that almost blew my brain at the end of season 3:

I was dead certain that Martha and Jonas materializing in the middle of the road in the rain was going to be what would cause Tannhaus' family to careen off the road and cause the whole series

I was too, for that whole scene!

# ¿ Jul 5, 2020 11:55

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 18:57

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

cryptoclastic posted:

I didn't pick up on this at all until the very end when her scar was on the wrong side. I didn't know they went that far. Really cool.

I noticed the scar switch from when she licked up Jonas in s2 and spent a good two days trying to figure out how left-scratch Martha and right-scratch Martha ended up on different sides of a conflict in their world. .

The effect is really really neat though!

# ¿ Jul 12, 2020 02:03

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Dark Season 3 - "The end is the beginning and the beginning is the end"