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I'm pretty sure if you double-tap in a direction Kirby will run, so it doesn't have to be so slow.
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Jul 3, 2019 00:11
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 You finally found my favorite power combo in the game. I love the electric double lightsaber.In Dream Land 3, at least, the animal companions served the function that the power combos do in this game; they altered the way Kirby uses his powers. Some were useful; Pitch (the small bird) + Spark power created a remote-control attack bird.  As for what Kine the fish did... 
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Jul 3, 2019 01:04
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Explopyro posted:It's a weird quirk of the boss design in this game that they're all designed first and foremost to be fought with no powers (e.g. you'll notice all of the patterns have a point at which they generate something Kirby can suck up and use as a projectile), so that often ends up being easier than actually using powers. Some bosses just really aren't suited to being fought with certain abilities. I'm pretty sure it's a safety net: this is one of the very few bosses where you can get a new power mid-battle, so the developers wanted to make sure you could come in with no power (or any power, discarding it if necessary) and win. There's also a boss rush mode where you do the whole thing without powers.
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Jul 3, 2019 01:24
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The speedrunning trick to Acro is apparently to use single Bomb. It barely travels horizontally at all, and Acro is usually below you.
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Jul 3, 2019 03:01
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Cythereal posted:I'm pretty sure it's a safety net Oh, agreed. It's good design, and the alternative would make for a pretty horrible game. I just think it's also pretty obvious that they didn't put much thought into what the boss fights would be like with certain powers. The fact that they put enemies that give you Cutter in a boss fight where using Cutter is a death sentence is kind of a mixed message in terms of how games usually communicate. Although I do wonder if there's some untapped potential in bosses being designed around getting a power partway through and having to use that to defeat them; that's certainly something this game could have done. There are some hints in that direction here, and in one later boss (Miracle Matter), what with being able to get powers mid-fight, but it's still a better idea not to...
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Jul 3, 2019 03:56
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Explopyro posted:Oh, agreed. It's good design, and the alternative would make for a pretty horrible game. I just think it's also pretty obvious that they didn't put much thought into what the boss fights would be like with certain powers. The fact that they put enemies that give you Cutter in a boss fight where using Cutter is a death sentence is kind of a mixed message in terms of how games usually communicate. I mean, I don't think they give you the bonefish so you can get Cutter; I think they give you the Bonefish so you can hold it over your head and hit enemies with its projectile.
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Jul 3, 2019 07:20
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Explopyro posted:
Again: Fire/Cutter is awesome, because you don't even need to swing it to do damage. Just pull the sword out, hold it over your head (or let it trail behind you and face away, depending on positioning), and let the boss run into it on its own! Incidentally, I would've thrown away the volcano power for LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE at the first opportunity. Really, some of the powers in this game're just bad (Ice/Bomb and Fire/Rock are two stand-out examples, and Ice/Fire is about as effective as you'd expect melting ice to be). On the topic of abilities that speedrunners like: I think they'd generally prefer Fire when there isn't a specific ability they need. Like, just Fire, not Fire/Fire or anything like that. Goes faster than walking, and unlike Fire/Fire you can actually stop midway.
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Jul 3, 2019 12:41
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Oh, Fire/Cutter is great, as are a lot of the combos (Electric/Cutter was my favourite as a kid, perhaps for obvious reasons). It was just Cutter alone and Cutter/Cutter that I liked to avoid. I think CptWedgie is right that there are a lot of (I'd say too many) joke powers in this game, or powers whose uses are too niche to justify using them most of the time (I never found a level where I actually wanted to use the ice skates, for instance). When you actually do the maths, it works out there are 36 powers in the game (6 base powers, and 30 unique combos once you remove the duplicates). That sounds like a lot, but once you start ticking off the list of useless ones (or ones like Fire/Rock or Ice/Bomb that you're only going to use when the game forces you to for a puzzle), it starts to look a lot smaller. More to the point, it starts looking very similar to the number of unique powers in other Kirby games that don't have the combination mechanic. I'm being a bit nitpicky and hard on the game here, but I do really enjoy this game. Also, I have to admit I'm incredibly embarrassed not to have picked up that Acro was orca backward before. How did I not notice that?
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Jul 3, 2019 16:13
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Explopyro posted:Also, I have to admit I'm incredibly embarrassed not to have picked up that Acro was orca backward before. How did I not notice that? How have I never noticed this?! 
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Jul 4, 2019 04:42
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Explopyro posted:It's a weird quirk of the boss design in this game that they're all designed first and foremost to be fought with no powers (e.g. you'll notice all of the patterns have a point at which they generate something Kirby can suck up and use as a projectile), so that often ends up being easier than actually using powers. I mean, that's not just this game, ALL Kirby bosses tend to do this. Never any guarantee you'll enter a boss with a power, or keep a power the whole fight without losing it, so his make sure you're still able to fight.
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Jul 4, 2019 20:18
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 The world that gave my unskilled rear end the most trouble.
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Jul 5, 2019 20:03
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First and foremost single color blocks like the orange one in stage three can be broken by any power that uses the power type of that block's color meaning you can use any Needle-based power to get that shard, you don't need the drill specifically. I've used Ice/Needle to break it in my play through and I remember that being the combination Medibot used for it as well. As for the block that requires Ice, the block is cracked and the idea is that the ice seeps into the cracks and splits the rock apart. Chimera-gui fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jul 6, 2019 |
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Jul 5, 2019 22:09
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The problem with that ice-requirement is that unlike every other block in the game, it uses logic instead of color-coding. I like logical puzzles like that, but at the same time, I'd swear you need bomb and fire, or rock and fire, to break that, and that's what I'd try.
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Jul 5, 2019 22:33
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My favorite combo is Elec/Cutter. Darth Kirb aside it has a bit more mobility than Fire/Cutter and pretty much just as much range. Neo Star is a step up in difficulty, not only because of all of the hazards but because it starts asking you to bring your own powers in to solve it's crystal shard puzzles. IIRC you could get Rock in the cave before the dynamite block but there were no bomb sources in the level. So you had to go elsewhere to get it. Prythian posted:The problem with that ice-requirement is that unlike every other block in the game, it uses logic instead of color-coding. I like logical puzzles like that, but at the same time, I'd swear you need bomb and fire, or rock and fire, to break that, and that's what I'd try. I remember having problems with this as well because it was a deviation from the internal logic of the game. Like, it makes sense, just the wrong kind of sense the game has been making you think of 
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Jul 5, 2019 22:43
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And I do get that since it is an outlier but I'm guessing it's to keep you from getting it the first run through so you'd get the regular ending. Kirby games in general tend to be easy to play casually but tricky to 100%.
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Jul 6, 2019 00:47
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I hate the dynamite. It takes forever to go off, and the self-damaging thing isn't good either. Fortunately, Neo Star 2 is the only time it's required. At least the drill's useful, even if I still prefer the flaming sword. ...I honestly don't remember ever getting a game over in this game.
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Jul 8, 2019 11:58
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That cave/volcano music slaps too, how did I forget about that.
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Jul 8, 2019 19:58
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 YouTube's poo poo, but here's today's video. Final part is on Friday.
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Jul 9, 2019 21:08
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I like that the second map's music is a chill remix of a song from Kirby's Adventure. Also I love the factory theme, it's a great theme.
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Jul 9, 2019 22:40
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Oh, hey cool. Shiver Star, aka dead frozen Earth.
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Jul 10, 2019 00:29
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It's interesting that Jacob mentioned using the Fire power underwater, because Kirby 64 is one of the few Kirby games that allow you to use any power underwater. Most just allow you to use, like, Sword and Parasol underwater and everything else just causes Kirby to waterspout like a breaching whale.
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Jul 10, 2019 00:44
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I'm not too thrilled with the lightning rod, personally. I mean, yes, it has its uses, but it's kind of outclassed by several different abilities in combat (not gonna list any because I've already made my opinion on that matter clear).
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Jul 10, 2019 09:39
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That factory level theme is amazing. Second best song in the game IMO.
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Jul 10, 2019 16:22
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MarquiseMindfang posted:That factory level theme is amazing. Second best song in the game IMO. So Good they keep putting it in the Kirby games. Im entertaining the thought that the song is the reason Planet Robobot exists.
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Jul 10, 2019 17:35
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 Thanks for watching, folks. We might be doing the final two parts of Slime Rancher in this LP's place next week while we work on Star Fox, but I probably won't be doing another filler LP for now. Unless we still need more time, in which case, Diddy Kong Racing?
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Jul 12, 2019 20:19
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Sakurai did indeed do voice work in Kirby. He voices King Dedede in both this and Smash Brothers. Seriously.
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Jul 12, 2019 21:32
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Omnicrom posted:Sakurai did indeed do voice work in Kirby. He voices King Dedede in both this and Smash Brothers. Seriously. He was laughing in the fans faces.
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Jul 12, 2019 22:13
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Kirby games are always some degree of good but I feel like this is one of the weaker ones overall. It's still enjoyable, but IMO the ability mixing works better in concept than in actual execution thanks to the low amount of base powers, and some of the crystal shards just end up being more obnoxious than fun to get if you don't have a guide up. For other Kirby games to check out, I have a soft spot for Return to Dreamland on the Wii. It was the second game to use the now typical moveset-based power system, over a decade after Super Star on the SNES, and felt really fresh because of that. It also looks really nice running high res in Dolphin.
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Jul 13, 2019 15:37
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I normally hate games that introduce brand-new mechanics for their final bosses (looking at you, God of War 1) but I didn't mind the 0-2 fight so much because it's a cool setpiece and the music whips rear end. Good job getting through this, I agree that it's kind of simplistic even for a Kirby game but I think that what's there is pretty good. And yeah I spent far more time on those minigames than they deserved, especially the falling tiles ones.
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Jul 13, 2019 18:50
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The worst problem with the O-2 fight is figuring out you can actually rotate around it. Unlike Starfox 64, this is the only boss in the game that is fought like this so you have to learn that here. And that's not great. After that though it's definitely easier than Miracle Matter. Also for Kirby Games to play, the classic Super Star (and Super Star Ultra DS remake) are solid as heck and still hold up today.
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Jul 14, 2019 01:47
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Cutesy game full of happiness- *final boss attacks by shooting tears of blood out of its cyclopean hellbody*  ...and yet somehow less metal/gory than Kirby's Dreamland 3!
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Jul 14, 2019 05:19
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Admiral H. Curtiss posted:For other Kirby games to check out, I have a soft spot for Return to Dreamland on the Wii. It was the second game to use the now typical moveset-based power system, over a decade after Super Star on the SNES, and felt really fresh because of that. It also looks really nice running high res in Dolphin.
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Jul 14, 2019 09:52
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Commander Keene posted:Squeak Squad also had that mechanic, though? You definitely got different attacks on at least some powers for pressing directional buttons in that game. Some were locked behind ability scrolls though. I'll be honest, I don't remember that at all. Clearly that didn't leave as much as an impression as KtD for me.
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Jul 14, 2019 14:57
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Squeak Squad and Amazing Mirror had it but it definitely wasn't an inspiring amount of moves - Sword only had the three-button combo, the spinning slash in the air (which first appeared in Adventure, anyways), and Final Cutter stolen from Cutter.
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Jul 14, 2019 19:16
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This game gets an A+ for Darth Kirb
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Jul 14, 2019 21:24
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I'll always have a soft spot for Amazing Mirror. I just wish I could have played it properly with other people.
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Jul 14, 2019 23:24
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that multiplayer flashback was great. i played the hell out of those minigames with friends as a kid. i'd've played a Kirby Party style game
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Jul 15, 2019 17:17
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    Some simple smilie-sized gifs to celebrate the end with. This lp actually got me to finally play Planet Robobot which is proving to be pretty enjoyable so thanks for that!
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Jul 16, 2019 19:43
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ThornBrain posted:
Speaking of little bird flying underwater, to the theme of Mazinger Z (English) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK3g-d5BO1M: Kirby can, swim in the sky, he can fly beneath the sea. In his, little bird, Pitch rock statu~~ue. Pitch Statue is faster and much stronger than all the buddies. [I could go on, but I won't] Explopyro posted:When you actually do the maths, it works out there are 36 powers in the game (6 base powers, and 30 unique combos once you remove the duplicates). You're correct in the total number of powers, but not in the breakdown. There are 7 base powers, 28 unique combos, and the powerless, or base form Kirby.
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Jul 17, 2019 18:09
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