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Space Butler
Dec 3, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

Kchama posted:

Movie was cancelled six years ago. Weber hitched himself to a company that planned a huge multimedia Honorverse blitz including movies, video games, and comic books and the only thing that happened were the comic books and I think the company went under too, taking all the video games and movies with it.

Apparently at some point it was going to be turned into a miniseries because they decided that Honor of the Queen was too difficult to turn into a one and a half hour/two hour movie, which is pretty much of them to think, considering there is not that much anything in HotQ or On Basilisk Station. They were going with HotQ though.




This is the lady Weber wanted to play Honor.

But Ivanova was a good character.

I actually read the first of the comics once, it was presented as a weird flashback kind of thing set during that book where she's a prisoner of war but telling the first book through flashback. Didn't make a lot of sense.

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Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

YAP YAP YAP


Space Butler posted:

But Ivanova was a good character.

I actually read the first of the comics once, it was presented as a weird flashback kind of thing set during that book where she's a prisoner of war but telling the first book through flashback. Didn't make a lot of sense.

She's also not a thing like Honor in any way, so it just seemed like who Weber was hot for at the time.

Yeah if I remember correctly they're set during the time she was captured and on the prison planet and I'm not sure why they chose that particular framing device because you'd think it'd cause a lot of plotholes down the road.

Gnoman
Feb 11, 2014

"What we therefore hath joined together, let Gnoman put asunder..."


The flashback thing is a very strange choice, but I can see the reasoning - it would allow them to skip forward and back as needed quite easily. Doing that would help fit the narrative to a comic's pacing, without locking them out of any scenes they'd want to use later.

Incoherentlysmug
Apr 16, 2020


yiss miss swiss hebochi going onn myriad legostarships why Canadians dont belong (#montreal) tuesday nights inn book dread incomes p. shur chill penguin from mmbn7:starforce ..at any rate dispensed plasma rigged ufo's diligence onnalong starlit caressing impression of enthusiasm erotica like ghatsby

MilitantSci-fic must load ...

Yupp dubstep dub ziolent order ...sector uni-coincidences blunt enigmatrixes calculus hundreds into reading starsship trippin

Aint yxz phase.varsword eject into depths galactic dead space on towards peaceful negotiations with x4Riklits force elite sects bloasted shinjero capt. Godzilla can steak and Gwahr!

Anyhow im driving barnes_Nobles w/ syntax alien drol femenloard sysseri naomi-hyefy wit quips bonghits clever poo

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012


Alright

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

YAP YAP YAP


Gnoman posted:

The flashback thing is a very strange choice, but I can see the reasoning - it would allow them to skip forward and back as needed quite easily. Doing that would help fit the narrative to a comic's pacing, without locking them out of any scenes they'd want to use later.

I mean I get that, but the problem is how they chose to do the flashback. Having it be Honor telling everything to Haven is the issue, since Haven's not suppose to be aware of ANY of that, until I guess they become Treecat-controlled best friends of Manticore in the final books.

Gnoman
Feb 11, 2014

"What we therefore hath joined together, let Gnoman put asunder..."


That's fair enough. Haven did not become aware of most of the details until the restored Republic allied with Manticore out of mutual self-interest and the discovery of a common enemy.

Anshu
Jan 9, 2019




A thought occurred to me the other day (not for the first time, but this time I remembered to mention it to the thread):

Mesans.

Masons.

Freemasons.

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!



Anshu posted:

A thought occurred to me the other day (not for the first time, but this time I remembered to mention it to the thread):

Mesans.

Masons.

Freemasons.

Checks out.

Anshu
Jan 9, 2019




Also, I'm rereading Weber's Multiverse series via audiobook, and I've just been reminded that I love the cheerfully bloodthirsty way he characterizes the orcas when psychics talk to them. It's all but explicit that sometime in the last few thousand years, the orcas decided, "These other cetaceans are thinking creatures, like us." (later extended to include humans) "Therefore, we will no longer eat them, despite how delicious they are," and you get the strong sense that modern orcas are continuously and consciously choosing to abide by that decision.

The Chad Jihad
Feb 24, 2007




Killer whales famously eat other whales frequently though? Or is modern orca in the context of the books here

Anshu
Jan 9, 2019




I meant in the context of the books, yeah

quantumfoam
Dec 25, 2003



SFL Archives Fall 1994:
As of Fall 1994, Harry Turtledove has a mere eight mil-fiction/mil-scifi books published (current Turtledove mil-fiction/mil-scifi book count as of 2020 is pushing 50+). The second book in Harry Harrison's fantasy mil-fiction series about alt-history Vikings has just been published. Fred Saberhagen in Fall 1994 is more known for his horror-fantasy stories about Dracula and his proto-Malazan precursor stories than any of the mil-fiction/mil-scifi stories he is most remembered for now. And finally, Honor Harrington book #4 comes out.


1994 SFL Archives Honor Harrington chat
------------------------------

Date: 2 Sep 1994 17:50:59 -0400
From: dani@telerama.lm.com
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Weber: Honor Harrington -- Field of Dishonor

The new Honor Harrington book, "Field of Dishonor", is out. I thought it
was weaker than the earlier books in the series. People who haven't read
those books shouldn't start here (though they may want to check out "On
Basilisk Station"), but readers who enjoyed the earlier books will probably
find this one worth reading.

This book departs from the military arena which Weber handles well, in
favor of the political and personal, which are not his strong points. The
story picks up where the last one ended with the court martial of Pavel
Young. Unfortunately, the court martial turns into a political circus and
the struggle between Young and Harrington gets nasty.

"Field of Dishonor" was something of a disappointment - not least because
too much of what happens is too contrived but I'll still be looking for the
next book in the series, if and when.

Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com
dani@telerama.lm.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 00:18:57 GMT
From: sef@kithrup.com (Sean Eric Fagan)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Weber: Honor Harrington -- Field of Dishonor

<dani@telerama.lm.com> wrote:
Some spoilers, perhaps.
>The new Honor Harrington book, "Field of Dishonor", is out. I thought it
>was weaker than the earlier books in the series.

I don't know about that. It depends what you want. It is *much* less a
naval book than the previous three, and focuses a lot more on other aspects
of her life. I didn't care that much for the ending, however. On the
other hand, it certainly leaves it open for more sequels. I don't know if
he has any planned, though.

But, all in all, I enjoyed the different aspects in this one. As you point
out, there did seem to be some things missing, at times, but, I did enjoy
it. (Stayed up until 2AM reading it last night.)

>People who haven't read those books shouldn't start here

Considering it's the fourth book (of four?), I should say not!

------------------------------

Date: 5 Sep 1994 00:04:30 -0500
From: dastuart@cs.utexas.edu (Douglas A. Stuart)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Honor Harrington

The book was a fun read, although there was a little too much Foreshadowing
(the sign of quality literature) for my taste.

Anyone know if there will be a Honor Harrington 5? According to Locus
forthcoming books (Sep), the only thing Weber has coming out from Baen is
"Oath of Swords" in February, and although that might be a reference to
Grayson, it doesn't seem that likely. Since Mutineer's Moon doesn't seem
to need a second sequel, and Steve White isn't mentioned as a co-author, so
its probably not another Starfire book, does anyone know anything about it?
Although I liked "Path of the Fury," which doesn't seem to get much
mention, and wouldn't mind a sequel, the title doesn't really sound right
for that.

SPOILERS FOR FIELD OF DISHONOR

Although I enjoyed it, it did have a little too much of a sense of
inevitability about it, especially since it looked like it would turn out
this way ever since the title was given in Short Victorious War. On the
other hand, at least Weber didn't take the easy way out and use Young's
treachery to keep from putting her on the beach. Also, from about half-way
through, I was sort of expecting her to end up CO of the Grayson's ex-Haven
Curvosier (sp), although that may come next.

------------------------------

Date: 5 Sep 1994 13:22:07 GMT
From: mikeg@llc.org (Mike Giroux)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Weber: Field of Dishonor

I haven't seen it yet, but I read the first two chapters in the back of the
new "Jedi Academy" novel, and _Field of Dishonor_ takes place right after
_A Short, Victorious War_, dealing with political maneuvering around Pavel
White's court martial and war with the Peeps. The first two chapters were
good, guess I'll have to wait for the book to get "up north" here to find
out about the rest...

Mike Giroux
Charny, Quebec, Canada
mikeg@llc.org

------------------------------

Date: 5 Sep 1994 22:05:38 GMT
From: danac@morc.mfg.sgi.com (Dana Crom)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Honor Harrington

Didn't I see a mention here that Weber was in a car accident lately? Does
anyone have any more info? I would agree that of all the Weber books out
now that _FOD_ has the most need of a sequel, but that doesn't mean that
we'll get one.

Douglas A. Stuart <dastuart@cs.utexas.edu> wrote:
>SPOILERS FOR FIELD OF DISHONOR
>
>Although I enjoyed it, it did have a little too much of a sense of
>inevitability about it, especially since it looked like it would turn out
>this way ever since the title was given in Short Victorious War. On the
>other hand, at least Weber didn't take the easy way out and use Young's
>treachery to keep from putting her on the beach. Also, from about
>half-way through, I was sort of expecting her to end up CO of the
>Grayson's ex-Haven Curvosier (sp), although that may come next.

Had a few nice turns, though. Leaves *lots* of loose ends.

I had the same thought about Honor's future career - I could easily see
Grayson snapping her up, at least till the Queen and PM manage to mend some
political fences and call her back. Might be interesting if she ended up,
while in the persona of a Grayson Admiral, commanding a mixed squadron with
RMN personnel who outrank her when in her RMN persona ;-) Then again, I
have a warped mind.

This, though, is the first time she's *really* been hurt where it really
counts. If she did not have such a strong sense of duty, and personal
loyalty to her sovereign (*not* the government of the SKoM), I could see
her sense of betrayal leading her to shift all her commitment to Grayson.

On a minor note, Weber tied up a few loose ends here, as well. I'd been
wondering for some time what Honor would do when Nimitz got old, as well as
wondering why the treecats had such high intelligence in the first place.
Finding out that they are neolithic toolusers with a 250+ year(!) lifespan
ended speculation on both counts.

Another thought - does anyone else feel that Weber is writing himself into
a corner with the prize system? It worked OK for the British navy back in
the days of sail, but a spacecraft costs a *lot* more capital than a wooden
ship - Honor isn't just well-to-do these days, she's stinking rich. Not
that many multi-millionaires in combat, I wouldn't think. Then again, if
you've got folks like White Haven and Mike Henke mixing it up, I'm looking
at it from the wrong angle - noblesse oblige and all that.

Dana Crom
Silicon Graphics, Inc.
danac@morc.mfg.sgi.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Sep 94 20:15:30 EDT
From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Honor Harrington

danac@morc.mfg.sgi.com (Dana Crom) writes:
>>SPOILERS FOR FIELD OF DISHONOR
>I had the same thought about Honor's future career - I could easily see
>Grayson snapping her up, at least till the Queen and PM manage to mend
>some political fences and call her back. Might be interesting if she
>ended up, while in the persona of a Grayson Admiral, commanding a mixed
>squadron with RMN personnel who outrank her when in her RMN persona ;-)
>Then again, I have a warped mind.

You're forgetting whose life Honour is living.

Horatio Hornblower also got beached, under somewhat different
circumstances, just when it looked like his career was taking off. He got
off the beach PDQ when the Admiralty was in a position to do it. Since
Honour is *considerably* more notorious, we won't get a replay of the
wonderful, wonderful whist game, but Weber might manage something similar.

Also under this heading, we can expect something quite unpleasant and fatal
to befall Paul Tankersly, and for Honour to eventually end up married to
Hamish Alexander.

>This, though, is the first time she's *really* been hurt where it really
>counts. If she did not have such a strong sense of duty, and personal
>loyalty to her sovereign (*not* the government of the SKoM), I could see
>her sense of betrayal leading her to shift all her commitment to Grayson.

She could always try taking her seat in the Lords and making a hairy
nuisance of herself. (:Field of Dishonour: won't be here for another two
weeks; if there is a spoiler for why that can't or won't happen, *don't*
tell me!)

>Another thought - does anyone else feel that Weber is writing himself into
>a corner with the prize system? It worked OK for the British navy back in
>the days of sail, but a spacecraft costs a *lot* more capital than a
>wooden ship - Honor isn't just well-to-do these days, she's stinking rich.
>Not that many multi-millionaires in combat, I wouldn't think. Then again,
>if you've got folks like White Haven and Mike Henke mixing it up, I'm
>looking at it from the wrong angle - noblesse oblige and all that.

If I remember :On Basilisk Station: correctly, they get half a percent of
the value of contraband; this also applies (or seems to apply) to the
freighter sent in under prize crew, so instead of splitting half the value
as determined by prize court, they get half a percent. That the captain's
share is 6% where the enlisted personnel split 70% is also a radical
departure from RN practice in days gone by.

It makes sense to me; there are individual Manticorans who are very, very
rich, and it doesn't seem to keep them (necessarily) out of naval careers,
as you noted. It is also the case that an enemy ship to take apart, even a
bashed and battered enemy ship, is much more valuable as an intelligence
assert, relatively, than taking a man'o' war, so the Admiralty wants to
encourage taking prizes (since it is *much* harder than winning the fight,
and getting a decisive win is clearly not easy to start with.) The same
rule wrt contraband makes plenty of sense just as a bribe deterent - having
to offer whole percentages of the value of your cargo as bribes makes
bribery quite a bit less practical.

It also rather suits the Manticoran notion of social mobility; an
outstanding Naval officer is in some danger of becoming gentry or nobility,
and if they can make themselves appropriately wealthy at the same time, all
the better.

------------------------------

Date: 6 Sep 1994 16:13:27 GMT
From: schulman+@pitt.edu (Christina Schulman)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Honor Harrington

Douglas A. Stuart <dastuart@cs.utexas.edu> wrote:
>Anyone know if there will be a Honor Harrington 5? >forthcoming books
>(Sep), the only thing Weber has coming out from Baen is "Oath of Swords"
>in February, and although that might be a reference to Grayson, it doesn't
>seem that likely.

That's Honor #5, I believe. At least, I know there's going to be an Honor
#5, and I think it's supposed to be out sometime around February next year;
draw your own conclusions.

I am also given to understand that while book 4 ends on a depressing note,
book 5 will fix things. I haven't actually read book 4, much less 5 yet;
my information comes from Larry Smith, book pusher par excellence, who has
been reading the books in manuscript form, the lucky bastard.

It's probably just as well that Honor's running into problems; otherwise,
she'd be promoted to Queen around book 6.

Christina Schulman
schulman+@pitt.edu
schulman@michael.nmr.upmc.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 12:33:21 EDT
From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Honor Harrington

schulman+@pitt.edu (Christina Schulman) writes:
>It's probably just as well that Honor's running into problems; otherwise,
>she'd be promoted to Queen around book 6.

Hey, these people have _ten_ pennant grade officer ranks (Captain of the
list, and then Green and Red Divisions of Commodore, Rear Admiral, Vice
Admiral, and Admiral, plus Admiral of the Fleet.) It's also quite obvious
that they *don't* bounce people a rank or seniority without excruciatingly
strong reasons, which even (especially!) Honour is going to have trouble
providing.

Even at one book per plain grade, that's five more before she even gets to
start making policy decisions. :]

Although I expect we are going to get much more of Honour running amok with
a battlecruiser division than of Honour being sentenced to the number four
post (weapons systems evaluation and development) at BuShips when she makes
Vice Admiral of the Red.

------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 17:39:08 GMT
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Weber: Honor Harrington -- Field of Dishonor

dani@telerama.lm.com writes:
>The new Honor Harrington book, "Field of Dishonor", is out. I thought it
>was weaker than the earlier books in the series. People who haven't read
>those books shouldn't start here (though they may want to check out "On
>Basilisk Station"), but readers who enjoyed the earlier books will
>probably find this one worth reading.

Ooops. I started the series with Field, having noticed it at the bookstore
and seeing some discussion of it recently.

I'm glad the others are better.

One thing (of many) that bugged me a bit was the way that all the Good Guys
were incredibly hawkish.

I may be missing out on something (not having read the previous books), but
in general if one is a small power being harassed by a big power, and the
bigger power has some internal problems, going on the military offensive
does not strike me as an optimal strategic move for the smaller power.

Using the time to build more equipment, train more crews, and get some
allies seems like a much better course (IMO). Covert operations too (if
possible).

------------------------------

Date: 6 Sep 1994 22:22:02 -0400
From: smarks@aol.com (SMarks)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Weber: Honor Harrington -- Field of Dishonor

bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris) writes:
>One thing (of many) that bugged me a bit was the way that all the Good
>Guys were incredibly hawkish.
>
>I may be missing out on something (not having read the previous books),
>but in general if one is a small power being harassed by a big power, and
>the bigger power has some internal problems, going on the military
>offensive does not strike me as an optimal strategic move for the smaller
>power.
>
>Using the time to build more equipment, train more crews, and get some
>allies seems like a much better course (IMO). Covert operations too (if
>possible).

First of all, I liked the book as much as the others. Although there
wasn't the battles that took place in earlier books, at least we were
spared the tedious explanations of why wars in the future are exactly like
naval battles between England and France<g>.

However, in answer to your complaints, these questions are explained in
earlier books. There are very few allies available and there have been
continous efforts in those and other directions. The Manticore nation does
have advantages in areas of technology and better trained personnel. Weber
does a good job of setting of events so that his characters' responses are
legitimate. It's pretty amazing considering that he is recreating
Forrester's original series. I loved the Horatio Hornblower books and
Weber does a very good job following them. There are problems but it is a
series I would recommend to anyone who liked the HH books.

Samuel Marks
smarks@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 22:33:54 -0800
From: robertaw@halcyon.com (Robert A. Woodward)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Weber: Honor Harrington -- Field of Dishonor

I haven't read these books (I am debating on whether to do so); but I
understand that the bigger power is somewhat "flabby." For a real life
example, there is Alexander of Macedon's attack of the Persian Empire; that
was extraordinarily successful.

rawoodward@aol.com
robertaw@halcyon.com
cjpw69a@prodigy.com

------------------------------

Date: 7 Sep 1994 04:17:22 GMT
From: dswartz@pugsley.osf.org (Dan Swartzendruber)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Weber: Honor Harrington -- Field of Dishonor

bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris) writes:
>One thing (of many) that bugged me a bit was the way that all the Good
>Guys were incredibly hawkish.

Justified in the current circumstances, IMO. Look at the parallels with
the French Revolution. They've got the Peeps off balance and disoriented.
This is a great chance to wreak havoc on them with no real downside (after
all, it's not like they have to worry about getting the Peeps angry, no?)

>I may be missing out on something (not having read the previous books),
>but in general if one is a small power being harassed by a big power, and
>the bigger power has some internal problems, going on the military
>offensive does not strike me as an optimal strategic move for the smaller
>power.

Bronis, we're not talking about harassment here. We're talking about an
unmistakable intent to conquer the Kingdom. If someone bigger than you
comes after you with a drawn sword, announcing his intent to kill you, then
trips and falls down, you'd be a fool not to go kick him while he's down.

>Using the time to build more equipment, train more crews, and get some
>allies seems like a much better course (IMO).

Only if you could improve your situation enough to compensate to make it
worthwhile. The downside here is that letting the Peeps regain their
equilibrium and reorganize their command structure could negate much of the
gains made during the two muggings that occurred to date. The Kingdom, on
the other hand, seems from my reading to be pretty much maxed out. They're
not that big, and there aren't that many allies with any significant
strength.

> Covert operations too (if possible).

Limited usefulness, once hostilities have broken out.

Dan S.

------------------------------

Date: 07 Sep 1994 16:54:59 GMT
From: john@avante.wpi.edu (John Stoffel)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Weber: Field of Dishonor

Now for a mini-review. I liked it. I liked it a lot. I think it's a
better book than the third one, if only because it has some very good plot
twists. As stated, it doesn't have the space battles of the previous
books, but that makes for a good change.

I guess my only real complaint is that the book seemed a bit hurried in its
writing. Let me correct that, it seemed hurried in its story line. I get
the feeling David Weber wanted to take another hundred pages and jump
around a bit more among the various view points of people in the action.
As it was, I think he pulled it off pretty well.

No, it isn't Hugo material, but it is a good (nay great!) continuation of a
series. It isn't often that an author can keep a series so consistently
good.

John

------------------------------

Date: 8 Sep 1994 01:11:26 GMT
From: todd@sam.neosoft.com (Todd Smith)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Weber: Field of Dishonor

john@avante.WPI.EDU (John Stoffel) says:
>No, it isn't Hugo material, but it is a good (nay great!) continuation of
>a series. It isn't often that an author can keep a series so consistently
>good.

Sorry. I thought it was excellent. The last one didn't quite do anything
for me but this one really did. I bought it at lunch and read it during
the day every time my boss was on the phone. When the pivotal, important
thing happened in the middle, I came home and read the rest on my patio.

Maybe I'm at a weird point in the male hormonal cycle, but the non-space
battle, personal stuff really struck a chord. It almost seems like
literary overkill to name this character "honor".

I particularly like (and hate - 'cause I'll have to wait to see it done)
how the scene has been set for the next novel to allow "her" to force
"them" to come to their senses after she does what I hope for (and expect)
her to do once she gets where she's going (if you know what I mean).

Todd
todd@sam.neosoft.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 18:11:38 GMT
From: cpf@alchemy.geo.cornell.edu (Courtenay Footman)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: David Weber Rumor

A while ago, someone posted that David Weber was seriously injured in an
automobile accident. I never saw a confirmation or a denial. Does anyone
_know_ if he did, and if so, how serious was "seriously"?

Courtenay Footman
cpf@alchemy.ithaca.ny.us

------------------------------

Date: 9 Sep 1994 19:59:04 GMT
From: paik@mlo.dec.com (Samuel S. Paik)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Weber: Field of Dishonor

Read it last night. Overall, I kind of liked it, but I think it makes a
poor [semi-standalone] novel. I think it would have made more sense to
have _The Short Victorious War_ and _Field of Dishonor_ as a single novel.

Samuel Paik
Digital Equipment Corporation
3D Device Support
paik@mlo.dec.com

------------------------------

Date: 12 Sep 1994 18:40:07 -0400
From: josherman@aol.com (JoSherman)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: David Weber Rumor

Yes, he was in an auto accident, but that was a while back. Spoke to him
the other day, and he's very much alive and well and writing.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 00:50:44 GMT
From: msmith@beta.tricity.wsu.edu (Mark Smith)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: David Weber Rumor

JoSherman (josherman@aol.com) wrote:
>Yes, he was in an auto accident, but that was a while back. Spoke to him
>the other day, and he's very much alive and well and writing.

Is he writing the sequel to Field of Dishonor? I surely hope so. <G>

Mark

------------------------------

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!



quantumfoam posted:

Date: Mon, 05 Sep 94 20:15:30 EDT
From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Honor Harrington

You're forgetting whose life Honour is living.

Horatio Hornblower also got beached, under somewhat different
circumstances, just when it looked like his career was taking off. He got
off the beach PDQ when the Admiralty was in a position to do it. Since
Honour is *considerably* more notorious, we won't get a replay of the
wonderful, wonderful whist game, but Weber might manage something similar.

Also under this heading, we can expect something quite unpleasant and fatal
to befall Paul Tankersly, and for Honour to eventually end up married to
Hamish Alexander.


This was correct on all points! Nice to see that people were spotting the parallels even pretty early on.

quantumfoam
Dec 25, 2003



Found during my SFL Archives readthrough attempt.

"Most of the incidents involve far more blood-letting than the law of averages would require, but I suppose that's why carnophiles read carnography" -from a review of David Drake's 1994 novel THE VOYAGE.

Gnoman
Feb 11, 2014

"What we therefore hath joined together, let Gnoman put asunder..."


Is that the infamous Platt?

quantumfoam
Dec 25, 2003



Gnoman posted:

Is that the infamous Platt?

No. It's from one of the most iron-gutted mil-scifi/mil-fiction fans in the SFL Archives.
Their full review of Drake's The Voyage follows below.

------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 04:39:19 GMT
From: dani@telerama.lm.com (Dani Zweig)
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Drake: The Voyage

David Drake's "Voyage" is set in the universe of Hammer's Slammers, which
means that it involves hard-bitten professional soldiers doing a lot of
damage. Just as "Cross the Stars" was based on the Odyssey, "Voyage" is
based on the story of Jason and the Argonauts: Lissea Doorman has been
promised her rightful heritage (a seat on the Board of Directors) if she
can retrieve a long-lost treasure (an invention which teleported to a now-
isolated planet), so she recruits a shipful of heroes (big-name
mercenaries) who stop at a number of planets on the way, having an
adventure of sorts at each one.

The parallels are very heavy-handed. For example, instead of harpies
snatching food from a table, we have teleporters snatching food as it comes
out of the automatic food dispenser. The monsters guarding the treasure
are tanks, which can be lulled into 'sleep' with a device which they
receive from the son of the local ruler. (Lissea may be luckier than Jason
in her Medea.) And so forth.

The plot structure doesn't lend itself that well to a novel: Each stop (and
most of the stops are unconvincingly motivated) becomes the setting for a
separate, isolated (and often pointless) incident. Most of the incidents
involve far more blood-letting than the law of averages would require, but
I suppose that's why carnophiles read carnography. The book is probably
not bad mind-candy, for those readers whose favorite mind-candy comes in
the form of bloody gobbets. I wouldn't recommend it else.

Author: Drake, David
Title: The Voyage
Publisher: Tor
City: New York
Date: January, 1994
Order Info: ISBN 0-312-85158-8
Pages: 415 pp
Comments: US$23.95

Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com
dani@telerama.lm.com
------------------------------


Also the mil-fiction/mil-scifi fans in the SFL Archives have just started talking about David Feintuch's Midshipman's Hope, which literally appears to be Horatio Hornblower set in the 23rd century.

C.M. Kruger
Oct 28, 2013


I read two? three? of the Seafort Saga books and they were pretty bad. Had a obsession with (very) young midshipmen being caned, some incredibly racist depictions of "transpops" which (IIRC) were a near-feral urban underclass, a sort of weird fascistic setting where the UN World Government is some kind of despotic theocracy because of the moral degradation of the past or whatever it was, and they just weren't entertaining at all.

Doctor Jeep
Dec 30, 2008



C.M. Kruger posted:

I read two? three? of the Seafort Saga books and they were pretty bad. Had a obsession with (very) young midshipmen being caned, some incredibly racist depictions of "transpops" which (IIRC) were a near-feral urban underclass, a sort of weird fascistic setting where the UN World Government is some kind of despotic theocracy because of the moral degradation of the past or whatever it was, and they just weren't entertaining at all.

is there a good "hornblower in space" series? or even "aubrey-maturin in space"?

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

YAP YAP YAP


I get the general impression that ANCIENT FAMOUS STORY/NOVEL IN SPACE/IN 1918/RETOLD IN SOME OTHER SETTING is pretty much always doomed to suck.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012


Kchama posted:

I get the general impression that ANCIENT FAMOUS STORY/NOVEL IN SPACE/IN 1918/RETOLD IN SOME OTHER SETTING is pretty much always doomed to suck.

the david drake one is really good actually. the important part is that he steals what makes auburey/marturin novels good, the dynamic of two fellas being bros, instead of just inventing some reason that space ships are like boats and calling it a day. seriously recommend

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA


Larry Parrish posted:

the david drake one is really good actually. the important part is that he steals what makes auburey/marturin novels good, the dynamic of two fellas being bros, instead of just inventing some reason that space ships are like boats and calling it a day. seriously recommend

David Drake owns in general. One of the few good mil-sci-fi authors.

quantumfoam
Dec 25, 2003



C.M. Kruger posted:

I read two? three? of the Seafort Saga books and they were pretty bad. Had a obsession with (very) young midshipmen being caned, some incredibly racist depictions of "transpops" which (IIRC) were a near-feral urban underclass, a sort of weird fascistic setting where the UN World Government is some kind of despotic theocracy because of the moral degradation of the past or whatever it was, and they just weren't entertaining at all.

Thats just how the British royal navy & British society in the 18th century literally operated. SFL Archives people are going "Feintuch has literally word-swapped Hornblower into a 23rd century setting/"the social background, and indeed the setting for virtually everything seems to be a very forced fit of 18th century values and customs onto a 23rd century space cruiser."

The best mil-scifi "futuristic Horatio Hornblower in space" conversion I've come across still remains A. Bertram Chandler's Derek Calver John Grimes/Rim World series. Mostly because A.B. Chandler wrote what he lived in real life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._Bertram_Chandler#Rim_World_series


StrixNebulosa posted:

David Drake owns in general. One of the few good mil-sci-fi authors.

Mostly Agree. David Drake is one of the better & realistic mil-fiction/mil-scifi writers out there but that's a extremely shallow garbage filled pool (the mil-scifi/mil-fiction genre). Just never ever read any of Drake's Jed Lacey stories if you want to keep that high opinion of Drake's writing.

TheGreatEvilKing
Mar 28, 2016



Or Lord of the Isles, which is derivative boring trash even by the low standards of fantasy fans.

quantumfoam
Dec 25, 2003



David Feintuch repeatedly responds to questions about his Seafort Saga books in the SFL Archives.

------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 95 21:06:54 -0500
From: Dave Feintuch <midave@delphi.com>
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Midshipman's Hope

David Voda <Voda@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>Did anyone out there like MIDSHIPMAN'S HOPE by David Feintuch as much as
>I did?
>
>It's just the sort of sf I love - space, star ships, great characters,
>real conflicts, both inner and outer.
>
>Has he written anything else that I've missed?

Thanks for the comment... gawd I love to hear stuff like that

CHALLENGER'S HOPE (also from Warner Aspect) is just hitting the shelves
even as we speak. PRISONER'S HOPE to follow in September.

Dave Feintuch
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 95 16:35:27 -0500
From: Dave Feintuch <midave@delphi.com>
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Midshipman's Hope

David Empey <dgempey@cats.ucsc.edu> writes:
>If you wanted to write an epic about Napoleonic naval warfare, why didn't
>you just do so? What's with the SF trappings? I'm not complaining mind
>you; I loved _MH_ and fully intend to buy all the sequels as soon as they
>come out. I'm just curious.

Well... the story I had in mind required that the protagonist be (a) in
an authoritarian environment, and (b) completely isolated from superior
authority. I considered writing a British Naval story - it was my first
idea, in fact, but I knew that if I tried it I'd get a thousand letters
that said approximately, "haha, the forbish cleat is ginseled to the
mainsail, not the boommast," or something of the sort.

Yes, I knew my British Naval history, but I didn't want to get bogged
down in the sort of intricate research such a project would take. Besides,
Patrick O'Brien has already done it. (To say nothing of Forrester).

So... having grown up on Heinlein, I cleared the decks, built my own
world, and let the story proceed. Truthfully, I'm rather glad I did. I
think it works much better this way.

Dave feintuch
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 95 03:11:57 -0500
From: Dave Feintuch <midave@delphi.com>
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Midshipman's Hope

Joel Nikoleit <nikoleit@ripco.com> writes:
>I also enjoyed this book even though I had problems with its plausiblity.
>Since the author reads this newsgroup I want to ask why there would be a
>space navy with weapons that can fight other ships when the space navy has
>all the ships. Why would anyone spend money on unneeded weapons? Ship to
>ship weapons can't easily be used against planets.

I believe in MIDSHIPMAN I mentioned that the navy used its weapons from
time to time against planetary bandits back on Earth. And in an
authoritarian society, one walks loudly AND carries a big stick. As far as
usability, I don;t believe lasers care very much where they are pointed,
and those are the main weapons in use. Compared to the cost of the ships
themselves, lasers are not a financial burden.

Or so was my thinking, at the time.

>On an other note, _Challenger's Hope_ must be popular in the Chicago Area.
>My local Crown Books is out of it and their regional distrabution center
>is out also. I hope that this is due to good sales and not a publisher's
>mistake.

CHALLENGER just came out and it sometimes takes weeks to get into the
distribution channel. Your bookstores have a lot of information about
books they carry on their computer... you might ask them to look up whether
they had any and sold them (if so, how many) or whether they didn;t get any
in yet. (I for one would like very much to know... )

Glad you enjoyed it.

Dave Feintuch
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 03:01:31 -0500
From: Dave Feintuch <midave@delphi.com>
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Midshipman's Hope

James Gassaway <dtravel@crl.com> writes:
>The only thing that started to bother me about the Seafort Saga after
>reading "Challenger's Hope" is this: Nicholas is in need of some serious
>psychiatric help. This is not a cut down of the character, he's just

He's been under a bit of stress lately, yes...

>hold up, but for how much longer? What is the UNNS going to do when he
>finally loses it? If Mr. Feintuch wants to respond, that would be very
>nice but I'm not looking for any spoilers. I'm hoping for some surprises
>in "Prisoner's Hope".

Actually, you put your finger on the climax of the series. I can't say
more without it's being a spoiler. But it's a very grand climax, if I say
so myself.

One or two folks have wondered about some of the incidents and stresses
that this character encounters. Many of the incidents have parallels in
our military past, if not present. And certainly one should not be too
surprised at a military figure who, from stress, finally loses it.
Consider the pilot of the Enola Gay, Tibbets. he spent much of his life in
and out of institutions, I believe.

Hope your comments meant you liked CHALLENGER...

Dave Feintuch
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 21:36:15 -0500
From: Dave Feintuch <midave@delphi.com>
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Midshipman's Hope

Three announcements:

1. MIDSHIPMAN'S HOPE just went into its fifth printing. I can't say
how pleased I am to hear this.

2. CHALLENGER'S HOPE was released two weeks ago. Last week, USA Today,
the newspaper, ran a list of the 200 top-selling books in the nation, in
all categories. CHALLENGER'S HOPE was number 116, which I'll grant isn't
the New York Times top ten, but on the other hand, it is nine places ahead
of the Pope's book.

3. I just learned hours ago that I've been nominated for the John
W. Campbell Award for best new s.f. writer of 1995. A writer is eligible
only two years, and this is the first time I've been eligible. The
nomination itself is a wonderful honor.

Dave Feintuch
------------------------------

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~


Kchama posted:

Movie was cancelled six years ago. Weber hitched himself to a company that planned a huge multimedia Honorverse blitz including movies, video games, and comic books and the only thing that happened were the comic books and I think the company went under too, taking all the video games and movies with it.

lol I happened to come across the comic books at one point, what struck me was how all the issues after the first one appeared to be rendered by using some 3D graphics program to pose models. It just looked awful, even worse than the recent Star Trek comic books where it's painfully obvious that nearly every face is either a tracing of a screenshot from the show, or possibly literally a screencap that's been photoshopped into the art.

Fivemarks
Feb 21, 2015


Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

lol I happened to come across the comic books at one point, what struck me was how all the issues after the first one appeared to be rendered by using some 3D graphics program to pose models. It just looked awful, even worse than the recent Star Trek comic books where it's painfully obvious that nearly every face is either a tracing of a screenshot from the show, or possibly literally a screencap that's been photoshopped into the art.

Weber ending up getting someone who makes bad Poser CGI porn to do an Honor Harrington comic makes perfect sense in my brain. It's the kind of decision you get out of someone who thinks that the British monarchy is the best political system ever.

Hypnobeard
Sep 15, 2004

Obey the Beard





Oh man here we go again

quantumfoam
Dec 25, 2003



David Feintuch kept posting to the SFL Archives in 1995/SFL Vol 20b defending his writing.

Turns out Feintuch like A. Bertram Chandler wrote what he knew, and made the main character in his SEAFORT SAGA series a massively unstable person that kept screaming at people wanting to help/and in story stopping people from doing basic spaceship safety related things, then always pulling a "IF ONLY I HAD KNOWN (not to scream at people wanting to do their spacejobs)!!" later on. Supposedly Feintuch wrote all 4 Seafort stories at once before getting a publishing contract, and allegedly Seafort was much much worse/way more unstable in the original versions of the SEAFORT SAGA stories that Feintuch wrote.

------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 03:39:33 -0500
From: Dave Feintuch <midave@delphi.com>
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Prisoner's Hope by David Feintuch

Don Croyle <croyle@fwi.com> writes:
>Yes. The foreshadowing is more heavy handed and Seafort is still having
>major self esteem problems.

Seafort's self-esteem problems were so much a part of the original
writing (remember all four books were completed before the series was
bought) that it was impossible to remove it completely, even though by the
time Prisoner came out, I had toned it down considerably.

>One nice thing is that it's set mainly on a planet so we see more of the
>background society in general. Looks to me like even in this world
>Seafort is considered to have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility.

Absolutely. But I never claimed he hadn't... It is one of his flaws
that he can;t seem to do much about.

Hope you liked it.

Dave Feintuch
MIDAVE@DELPHI.COM
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 03:46:33 -0500
From: Dave Feintuch <midave@delphi.com>
Reply-to: sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu
Subject: Re: Prisoner's Hope by David Feintuch

John Peterson <jpeterso@panix.com> writes:
>I don't know what it is about these books. The last two have been real
>depressing, but I just couldn't put them down. Am I alone in this?

Interesting... Things were not going all that well in my life when I
wrote this. (See the preface to the Science Fiction Book Club edition for
elaboration.) The depression, which fits in with the story, seemed quite
natural to me at the time.

>I think Seafort makes Thomas Covenant look like Mr. Self Esteem.

Hehe. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I DID tune down the lack of self
esteem considerably from the early versions. He was a complete basket
case, as originaly written. I think, though, that you'll see where all
this is headed when you read the final novel, FISHERMAN'S HOPE. There is,
believe it or not, a reason for his feeling as he does.

Dave Feintuch
MIDAVE@DELPHI.COM
------------------------------

David Weber also came up a bit in SFL Archives Vol 20b. The first mention of Weber's "DO NOT KILL THESE CHARACTERS LIST" along with David Weber allegedly having signed a 16 book(!) contract with Baen Books sometime in late 1995.


Finally, the really old WITCHES OF KARRES mil-SFF series came up, and no lies from how the people of 1995 talked about them, the Karres stories seem to be not-garbage and aged gracefully.

quantumfoam fucked around with this message at 06:19 on May 11, 2021

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mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





quantumfoam posted:

Finally, the really old WITCHES OF KARRES mil-SFF series came up, and no lies from how the people of 1995 talked about them, the Karres stories seem to be not-garbage and aged gracefully.

The originals are really good, and Baen justifies its existence by putting the classics back in print.

The modern sequels on the other hand, suck poo poo through a fine-meshed screen. All of the "women can be effective and/or useful !" stuff that made the originals stand out when they were first released has been flipped to "ewww girls ? they can't do anything" misogyny. There may or may not be an explicit cookies analogy, but they were bad enough it wouldn't have made the sequels much worse.

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