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Sampatrick
Sep 26, 2012


emdash posted:

truly a cursed tournament format where the teams who earned a better position aren't allowed to get accustomed to officials

dont worry guys, vp will show up at lan eventually! they just need a few more tournaments worth of experience im sure at some point nightfall and dm will stop playing like poo poo. this is the fault of the tournament, not the team.

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Centzon Totochtin
Jan 2, 2009


So that's now three seeded teams who won a single game in the entire major before being eliminated? Possibly 4 if no ping also gets 2-0'd?

emdash
Oct 19, 2003

and?


Sampatrick posted:

dont worry guys, vp will show up at lan eventually! they just need a few more tournaments worth of experience im sure at some point nightfall and dm will stop playing like poo poo. this is the fault of the tournament, not the team.

you really are a worthless poster

The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008
EATING ASMONGOLDS ASS ONE POST AT A TIME


I think Noping has what it takes to take out a weak looking EG but at the same time they were also a part of that QC clownfest from yesterday so its hard to say

IncendiaC
Sep 25, 2011


With Vici winning this Bo3, did they clinch an autobid slot or are they now in the "99% in, but there's a ridiculously specific scenario where they get knocked out" space?

Liquipedia has them as clinching the autobid after winning vs. VP, but they have the same 800 DPC points as Alliance, Aster, beastcoast, and Thunder Predator

McSharpie
Nov 11, 2005
Hotter than Garrison Keillor, but just a little bit.

First tiebreaker is performance at this major, so they're ahead of all of those teams

The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008
EATING ASMONGOLDS ASS ONE POST AT A TIME


IncendiaC posted:

With Vici winning this Bo3, did they clinch an autobid slot or are they now in the "99% in, but there's a ridiculously specific scenario where they get knocked out" space?

Liquipedia has them as clinching the autobid after winning vs. VP, but they have the same 800 DPC points as Alliance, Aster, beastcoast, and Thunder Predator

Clinched it, thats 4 chinese teams invited to TI now and they knocked Nigma down.

Pamela Springstein
Aug 10, 2016

just wanted to be
a happy camper



I dont feel comfortable evaluating vp and Aster after only two series

Sampatrick
Sep 26, 2012


emdash posted:

you really are a worthless poster

okay so just so you understand, nightfall and dm have both been to multiple lans before and did poo poo at those ones too (although they did also have some great finishes at a number of the online events in 2020!). now lets look at the singapore major and see if what we're seeing here with upper bracket seeded teams getting demolished is something that happens all the time or if this is just variance. at singapore, you have, in your top 4 teams, eg, secret, and ig all of whom came from seeded teams. clearly we dont have a bunch of stats regarding whether or not the format is whats causing these teams to underperform - clearly its not some insurmountable problem, given what we have seen in the previous major. additionally, we have aui talking about alliance's scrims being really bad and aster talking about their scrims being really bad as indication that this isnt some isolated problem - clearly these teams were having issues winning games even outside of the context of tournament games. i think acting like this is all a result of the tournament format is just delusional. clearly theres something more going on here - maybe these teams arent taking things seriously because they viewed themselves as qualified for ti already, maybe these teams arent able to find good teams to scrim against for whatever, who actually knows. what we can absolutely say with certainty is that you cannot blame the lack of results on just the tournament format.

Pamela Springstein
Aug 10, 2016

just wanted to be
a happy camper



Sampatrick posted:

okay so just so you understand, nightfall and dm have both been to multiple lans before and did poo poo at those ones too (although they did also have some great finishes at a number of the online events in 2020!). now lets look at the singapore major and see if what we're seeing here with upper bracket seeded teams getting demolished is something that happens all the time or if this is just variance. at singapore, you have, in your top 4 teams, eg, secret, and ig all of whom came from seeded teams. clearly we dont have a bunch of stats regarding whether or not the format is whats causing these teams to underperform - clearly its not some insurmountable problem, given what we have seen in the previous major. additionally, we have aui talking about alliance's scrims being really bad and aster talking about their scrims being really bad as indication that this isnt some isolated problem - clearly these teams were having issues winning games even outside of the context of tournament games. i think acting like this is all a result of the tournament format is just delusional. clearly theres something more going on here - maybe these teams arent taking things seriously because they viewed themselves as qualified for ti already, maybe these teams arent able to find good teams to scrim against for whatever, who actually knows. what we can absolutely say with certainty is that you cannot blame the lack of results on just the tournament format.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/e/ea/Vo_silencer_silen_ability_silence_02.mp3/revision/latest?cb=20201018190525

Zurreco
Dec 27, 2004

Cutty approves.


EG intro just showed rtz as 20. As if

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida





Sampatrick posted:

okay so just so you understand, nightfall and dm have both been to multiple lans before and did poo poo at those ones too (although they did also have some great finishes at a number of the online events in 2020!). now lets look at the singapore major and see if what we're seeing here with upper bracket seeded teams getting demolished is something that happens all the time or if this is just variance. at singapore, you have, in your top 4 teams, eg, secret, and ig all of whom came from seeded teams. clearly we dont have a bunch of stats regarding whether or not the format is whats causing these teams to underperform - clearly its not some insurmountable problem, given what we have seen in the previous major. additionally, we have aui talking about alliance's scrims being really bad and aster talking about their scrims being really bad as indication that this isnt some isolated problem - clearly these teams were having issues winning games even outside of the context of tournament games. i think acting like this is all a result of the tournament format is just delusional. clearly theres something more going on here - maybe these teams arent taking things seriously because they viewed themselves as qualified for ti already, maybe these teams arent able to find good teams to scrim against for whatever, who actually knows. what we can absolutely say with certainty is that you cannot blame the lack of results on just the tournament format.

source your quotes


IncendiaC posted:

With Vici winning this Bo3, did they clinch an autobid slot or are they now in the "99% in, but there's a ridiculously specific scenario where they get knocked out" space?

Liquipedia has them as clinching the autobid after winning vs. VP, but they have the same 800 DPC points as Alliance, Aster, beastcoast, and Thunder Predator

it's like nobody reads my dpc update posts

Sampatrick
Sep 26, 2012


idk, like the panel was saying both this major and the last one, vp probably needs a coach to help out with drafting at the very least. theyre all incredibly talented players but they definitely have been drafting preeeetty bad and honestly playing any part of the game 6v5 in 2021 just seems like youre asking to lose.

emdash
Oct 19, 2003

and?


All I'm saying is the format looks dumb now, from a team-agnostic perspective. They could've just set any of the existing formats that avoid the appearance of sending the teams that earned "better" spots into the meatgrinder against teams that have been playing officials for a week straight.

I can't remember if there was an explanation for why they picked this format (whether it was to make tournaments shorter for production expenses or whatever) but it doesn't seem likely that it's putting all the teams on an even field, or even giving a genuine advantage to the teams that are supposed to get one.

Zurreco
Dec 27, 2004

Cutty approves.


When in doubt: https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Dota_Pro_Circuit/2021/Rankings

Folks have been keeping it up to date after every match

Pamela Springstein
Aug 10, 2016

just wanted to be
a happy camper



going to be another very late night in Kyiv

Zurreco
Dec 27, 2004

Cutty approves.


emdash posted:

I can't remember if there was an explanation for why they picked this format (whether it was to make tournaments shorter for production expenses or whatever) but it doesn't seem likely that it's putting all the teams on an even field, or even giving a genuine advantage to the teams that are supposed to get one.

I've heard that 2021 DPC design was to serve two functions; frontload qualifiers to reduce cost/schedule issues and to force teams to take qualifiers seriously. This way, all of the effort is spread out over the course of months instead of days without overloading players/viewers while still holding teams responsible for staying up to date.

Pamela Springstein
Aug 10, 2016

just wanted to be
a happy camper



I think Aui said Secret was the best team at ti5 but lost to vp?

IncendiaC
Sep 25, 2011


IcePhoenix posted:

it's like nobody reads my dpc update posts

I do! It's just that I'm a casual dumbo who can't retain information

Regarding the format, yeah there really should be a format for the upper brackets to play more games earlier in the major because 3 out of 4 teams getting knocked out without winning a single Bo3 is not a good look

Sampatrick
Sep 26, 2012


IcePhoenix posted:

source your quotes

https://liquipedia.net/dota2/DreamLeague/Season_13 this is dm's first lan afaik; both him and nightfall got last

https://liquipedia.net/dota2/ONE_Esports/World_Pro_Invitational/2019/Singapore https://liquipedia.net/dota2/ESL_One/Hamburg/2019 are some more tournaments that nightfall and save competed together at where they had mediocre finishes, similar to the singapore major

like idk i think gpk especially is a world class midlaner but virtus pro in their current iteration has some issues with not really having the manpower to do all the draft prep and also practice and so on and so forth. save is 19, has only really been in the scene for two years now, and is trying to a pretty insane amount of stuff by himself. if vp had a coach to help them out with drafting and maybe a few other things im pretty confident they would be a top 6 team in the world but outskilling all your opponents, which totally works in regional play, just doesnt really work in the same way at the international level imo.

Pamela Springstein
Aug 10, 2016

just wanted to be
a happy camper



Hoodwink is 6-1 this event. helps that no one but america plays it.

Pamela Springstein
Aug 10, 2016

just wanted to be
a happy camper



I'd like to see rtz playing Luna. I know he can play it and it seems better this event than TB.

Sampatrick
Sep 26, 2012


emdash posted:

All I'm saying is the format looks dumb now, from a team-agnostic perspective. They could've just set any of the existing formats that avoid the appearance of sending the teams that earned "better" spots into the meatgrinder against teams that have been playing officials for a week straight.

I can't remember if there was an explanation for why they picked this format (whether it was to make tournaments shorter for production expenses or whatever) but it doesn't seem likely that it's putting all the teams on an even field, or even giving a genuine advantage to the teams that are supposed to get one.

the thing is that it absolutely does give an advantage to the teams airlifted if they are as good internationally as they were regionally. they dont have to give away any particular strategies they have or anything about how theyre warding in game or anything along those lines. the problem is that a lot of the regionally good teams are that good because they are just individually better than all the players in the region but once they face international competition who are equally skilled they get messed up because their drafting might not be as good or whatever other reason. its also definitely the case that sometimes it takes teams time to figure out the meta - this is traditionally more of a thing at ti because major group stages are usually much smaller than the 8 team ones we've had this year but its still a thing. still, im not comfortable blaming the format for teams having bad performances. that seems like it just kinda invalidates the skill of the players who are taking down these teams and generally seems kinda unfair to me.

anyway, sven sucks and i expect the sven team to lose.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida





good start for noping

Sampatrick
Sep 26, 2012


if sven was a void, i would say noping can win this. as it is uhhh i do not believe in the dire.

Sampatrick
Sep 26, 2012


i observe three lost lanes bois not lookin so good for the sa dota heroes

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008



Reality Protester posted:

Hoodwink is 6-1 this event. helps that no one but america plays it.

i am american and like playing hoodwink so i can take credit for this actually

Zurreco
Dec 27, 2004

Cutty approves.


This Invoker is kinda getting poo poo on.

Pamela Springstein
Aug 10, 2016

just wanted to be
a happy camper



Mr. DarkMagoo

EorayMel
May 29, 2015

You got the fluffy kitty kitty!



I found the true og

The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008
EATING ASMONGOLDS ASS ONE POST AT A TIME


Reality Protester posted:

I think Aui said Secret was the best team at ti5 but lost to vp?

Yeah Secret was the best team in the world in that time, they won like 4-5 tournaments before TI. But they took a long break from playing and well the egos were also huge on the team as well. So they lost to ehome and VP

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008



Today was strong evidence that teams need to earn their way to upper bracket at the major, not before.

Pamela Springstein
Aug 10, 2016

just wanted to be
a happy camper



Luna would have stolen all the Sven's stacks. just sayin.

Zurreco
Dec 27, 2004

Cutty approves.


Yeah but what about all of the Sunders that rtz is probably going to cast eventually?

sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008



is eg gonna do it? does eg look good enough? might arteezy win a valve event????

IncendiaC
Sep 25, 2011


I don't think this clockwork has missed a single hookshot thing game

EorayMel
May 29, 2015

You got the fluffy kitty kitty!



Lion jumped, sven only got one hit off, game set match

Zurreco
Dec 27, 2004

Cutty approves.


All the farm in the world and Sven was defeated by a broke rear end Clock

Pamela Springstein
Aug 10, 2016

just wanted to be
a happy camper



The REAL Goobusters posted:

Yeah Secret was the best team in the world in that time, they won like 4-5 tournaments before TI. But they took a long break from playing and well the egos were also huge on the team as well. So they lost to ehome and VP

I had to look up which Secret roster that was (Rtz s4 zai puppey kuroky). I don't remember that ti very well, or even what the lans were like that year.

I should probably listen to that Aui interview some day

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Professor Latency
Mar 30, 2011



Wow this stage design is crazy

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