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Posse Comitatus does not apply to NG on State orders. And they can be tasked with law enforcement activity. The response to Hurricane Katrina was an example of this occuring, when NG/MPs were basically patrolling and taking calls for service in parts of New Orleans. Army Support During Hurricane Katrina posted:Although the Posse Comitatus Act greatly limits the degree
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Oct 23, 2021 13:09
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Just fist bumpin my buds https://twitter.com/ChristineTX34/status/1452095437129781252?s=20 Did some googling and from what I can see the first bump is not taken out of context or anything.
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Oct 25, 2021 13:37
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https://twitter.com/StevenBeynon/status/1453473979725930497?t=5WUtK8ieQyyH_FpJbKoC_w&s=19 How do you reform this?
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Oct 28, 2021 00:10
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US Berder Patrol fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Oct 28, 2021 01:13
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But they did tase it!
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Oct 28, 2021 02:52
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Nick Soapdish posted:https://twitter.com/StevenBeynon/status/1453473979725930497?t=5WUtK8ieQyyH_FpJbKoC_w&s=19 Kind of a difficult issue. I think reform is necessary, but it has to be peaceful. Lately, it feels like it’s getting worse somehow, as if more bad poo poo is happening. Like, what can a citizen even do? Cops don’t just behave like invading soldiers, they’re even more sadistic. Or do american soldiers behave like this as well? Police officers really do treat the people they’re supposed to protect like filth. Shameful.
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Nov 1, 2021 16:04
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please knock Mom! posted:Or do american soldiers behave like this as well? If I'd behaved like cop when I was in Iraq I'd have been court martialed and doing hard time in Leavenworth.
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Nov 1, 2021 16:48
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please knock Mom! posted:Cops don’t just behave like invading soldiers, they’re even more sadistic. Or do american soldiers behave like this as well? It’s tricky. A lot of individual soldiers could never behave like cops do, yanking people off streets, holding without charges, etc, the way cops can. otoh, we have enough of a grasp of the stats to know that the US military invading your city is far more dangerous to you in the sense of death than cops. So where cops can get away with a hell of a lot of day to day harassment, assault, bullshit, shootings, etc, sometimes soldiers cannot. But a military targeteer fed by some lazy or carelessly malicious intel will have your whole house bombed while your children sleep instead and then swear it was valid and your children are terrorists unless there is ample western news coverage of the incident. And when soldiers overstep bounds, the military has to have them on drat near a silver platter to conduct a court martial instead of some form of administrative action or coverup. The fear of punishment is good, but the reality is that it took some exceptionally high profile cases to land people in courts martial, like Abu Ghraib, murders/rapes with obvious coverups, the infamous kill team, etc. Your average military member who beat the poo poo out of an Iraqi or Afghan civilian for no good reason? Probably wasn’t ever reported or if they were, handled pretty quietly in house or through a basic dereliction or art 92 NJP. Hell, not one officer was criminally charged in Abu Ghraib. Plus, multiple DOD war criminals have been issued presidential pardons. It is good that so many members of the DOD believe, often incorrectly, that they are under a microscope regarding mistreatment or wrongful killing of civilians. But when you look at how many people have been detained, shot, blown up, beaten, etc vs war crime trials, it’s impossible to honestly chalk up the delta entirely to honest collateral damage or justified violence. Police are different in that 1: not a war zone and 2: that day to day gently caress with you ability. Even if a cop isn’t loving with someone that moment, a person may remember for years and years “there’s officer Smith again, the fucker who beat my rear end for no reason,” whereas troops rotate or leave entirely.
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Nov 1, 2021 17:31
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I can't believe I'm saying this since I know troops, but I think the average moral compass and belief in something greater than yourself in the force is exponentially higher than your average cop, too.
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Nov 1, 2021 17:44
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There's also something to be said about the difference in hero worship culture around cops and military personnel. For cops, they crank their own hogs about how awesome they are way, way more than I've ever seen any veteran (who is not a Navy SEAL) do. For veterans all it's all coming from external sources, and for cops it seems like it all started and is perpetuated through police unions and their culture for them to demand being thanked for doing their job, which is not very dangerous except for the trouble they cause themselves.
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Nov 1, 2021 17:52
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maffew buildings posted:I can't believe I'm saying this since I know troops, but I think the average moral compass and belief in something greater than yourself in the force is exponentially higher than your average cop, too. This particular part really made sense to me, once I thought about it. I don't know if it's a training issue or a culture issue, but it feels like too many cops really believe in the thin blue line poo poo. They are the last barricade between civilization and anarchy (read: petty crime, mostly), and that whatever they say or do should be the end of it. It feels like too many cops are ropleplaying Judge Dredd.
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Nov 1, 2021 20:49
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https://twitter.com/monkeyes2/status/1455261723099860997?s=21 All Cops Are Being vaccinated anyway despite the protests
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Nov 1, 2021 21:24
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Not to favorably compare troops to cops too much since there’s still lots of issues but one thing that’s made cops worse is the legal precedent and police culture concept that officers should never be obligated to take any physical risk even if it means putting a random member of the public in great danger or killing civilians. In the military you can’t get a pass to violate ROE’s just because you’re scared. Somehow civilians are still fully legally responsible for their actions if they’re scared though, which is insane. The army officer who got tazed and beaten for pulling into a gas station was charged until public outrage kicked him despite the fact he wasn’t following their instructions because he very reasonably believed that if he undid his seatbelt they would panic and shoot him. After they were screaming death threats at him. But that’s okay, since it’s okay for them to be scared. Until the public saw the video anyway. Philandro Castile is the best example of how that plays out in court. Butter Activities fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Nov 1, 2021 |
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Nov 1, 2021 21:30
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maffew buildings posted:I can't believe I'm saying this since I know troops, but I think the average moral compass and belief in something greater than yourself in the force is exponentially higher than your average cop, too. An exponent of a negative number is even more negative. I think cops are exponential(as long as your exponent is an odd number) as well. They just start at -20 and go further down from there. CainFortea fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Nov 1, 2021 |
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Nov 1, 2021 22:18
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-1^2 is positive one because the two negatives cancel out. You have to raise to an odd to keep the negative.
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Nov 1, 2021 22:28
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McNally posted:If I'd behaved like cop when I was in Iraq I'd have been court martialed and doing hard time in Leavenworth. Yeah that's what I thought.
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Nov 1, 2021 22:32
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Stravag posted:-1^2 is positive one because the two negatives cancel out. You have to raise to an odd to keep the negative. Huh, my calculator was being dumb. You're right.
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Nov 1, 2021 22:50
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Quote != Edit
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Nov 1, 2021 22:50
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As an MP (I know) we would have reservists who were cops do some time with us for sometimes extended stretches. Even we thought they were hella stupid. Even the people who dreamt of being civilian law enforcement after they got out were like "I'll never be that dumb!" then like, they were. (except me I quit)
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Nov 2, 2021 01:03
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Oh man, perfect time for a theory I have had for awhile now. Buckle in for some arm chair psychology! So I remember learning that sociopaths basically don't see other human beings as human beings, more like things to be used and then thrown away when they are done with them. One of the reasons you see sociopaths in the Catholic Church is that it is a relatively easy position of power and respect within a community for them to be shitheads. I remember somebody (it might have been here on SA, I don't remember) was saying that soldiers are sociopaths and it got me thinking. Now I am NOT saying that there are no sociopaths in the military, on the contrary I know there are I am pretty sure I served with a few. But how would it compare to police? Using the reasoning from the Catholic Church, which is easier for a sociopath? The military actually asks quite a bit from someone, you leave your community typically, everything is fairly regulated and mandated as we all know. Think formations, grooming standards, clothing regulations, the list goes loving on. To actually get to a point where you can start being a shithead to those under you you have to get promoted which takes time. And then you might get orders for somewhere else and have to start over. But police? You can stay in your community and be a shithead to everyone and every person type you already know. Just putting on the uniform gives you the power trip. Plus you can build upon other sociopaths, the "old guard" are a bunch of shitheads? Join the club and add to it! The standards are much less and the line between citizen cop and military soldier is getting blurred anyway so cosplay Chris Kyle to your hearts content. People not worshipping the ground you walk on? Make 'em pay for it! What I am getting at is I think it is an easier path for a sociopath to get his kicks in the police than the military. A coked up Sigmund Freud would be proud of this post.
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Nov 2, 2021 01:46
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Wrong Theory posted:Oh man, perfect time for a theory I have had for awhile now. Buckle in for some arm chair psychology! Eh, it really depends on what their goal is. There's some disagreement in the research community, especially whether there is a real difference between antisocial personality disorder (which is an actual DSM 5 diagnosis) vs psychopathy (and related terminology like sociopathy) or if they are the same construct and just different nomenclature. Robert Hare is a Canadian psychologist who is one of the best known researchers in this area (and the creator of the eponymous Psychopath Test from Jon Ronson's book) and asserts that that are different disorders, with sociopaths being much more likely to be incarcerated than those diagnosed with just ASPD. There is a relatively more recent controversy over what some people call "functional psychopaths." These are people with the fame manipulative and deceptive tendencies but who are able to sublimate their darker urges enough to generally function in society and even thrive, though they tend to seek out jobs where they can profit through manipulation and taking advantage of others while receiving fame and glory. Hare has a book about them called "Snakes in Suits" and developed a measure to assess for them but I'm not familiar with the psychometrics. All this is to say that, yes, there are probably some of these people who join law enforcement as the path of least resistance to get power over others and exercise their sadism in a way where they not only won't get in trouble but will actually be rewarded for it. That said, the base rate of this is probably very very low and the problems and crimes caused by are generally mostly due to larger group dynamics and social psychology than any personality disorders. Now, if one of these people had the goal of being able to straight up kill people and not get prosecuted for it, that's how you get Eddie Gallagher and others who are basically functional serial killers.
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Nov 2, 2021 06:33
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If cops had to operate under the same escalation of force rules that we had, they'd collectively poo poo themselves.
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Nov 2, 2021 10:34
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In the military it's more of a "I got beaten as a child, so when it's my turn I will beat my child" cycle of abuse when someone gets into a position of authority.
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Nov 2, 2021 14:33
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Speaking of police and military, TAL this week is a series of discussions with a man who was held without charges by the US military, tortured, and ultimately released. He’s on the phone with a few of his captors more recently, as a free man living in Mayritania. Not the easiest listen. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/752/transcript
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Nov 2, 2021 21:27
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tbh the main difference is probably just that the average soldier expects there to be repercussions for abuses, while cops expect absolute immunity from any sort of accountability.
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Nov 2, 2021 22:33
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Also I have no positive thoughts on cops, but it's worth noting that cops don't have machine guns in condition one pointed at people whenever they roll around, and they can't call in artillery or air strikes. Even with a more restrictive ROE and far better people on average (imo), the military is still a split second from killing a lot of locals. And an occupation is a large number of split seconds. I'd rather have the worst cops patrolling my neighborhood than the nicest army unit rolling around Iraq style.
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Nov 3, 2021 00:02
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I think this overestimates individual psychology. Police (and military special forces) do typically actually screen for psychopaths with actually valid and reliable tools. It’s just that an organization can easily make normal people behave like psychopaths, or much worse. You really only have to look at history, nations and militaries will collectively do absolutely atrocious things that most of the individuals within were initially sickened by but decided it was good actually because everyone else is saying that too.
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Nov 3, 2021 12:35
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As an example, this is a case where you didn’t have one random troop getting angry and committing a crime, but the bureaucracy of the military can do some pretty awful things with an unsatisfying level of accountability, from the perspective of civilian victims. https://twitter.com/ap/status/1455969128280469510?s=21
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Nov 4, 2021 15:05
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Or the collateral murder. The whole thing had been written off with and forgotten until wikileaks, and even after that it didn't actually lead to serious consequences.
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Nov 4, 2021 17:32
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Or the collateral murder. The whole thing had been written off with and forgotten until wikileaks, and even after that it didn't actually lead to serious consequences. Probably because it wasn't unusual, just happened to be caught on tape. The military does an extraordinary job of protecting any individual from responsibility in a cloak of beaurocratic process, and even if an actual average troop on the ground has more restraint than the average cop our military is way more dangerous to have in your neighborhood.
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Nov 4, 2021 17:38
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More creative headline writing. https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/source-cpd-officer-hit-in-chest-after-gun-discharges-during-argument-with-wife/2668909/?amp “Source: CPD Officer Hit in Chest After Gun Discharges During Argument With Wife” Translation: In struggle, officer shoots husband, who is also an officer, in the chest.
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Nov 4, 2021 19:25
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Which one was the hero that just wanted to make sure they were going home after their shift though?
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Nov 4, 2021 19:39
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mlmp08 posted:More creative headline writing. I'm surprised they didn't say the bullet loving appeared mistakenly in his chest cavity
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Nov 5, 2021 13:12
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Wasabi the J posted:I'm surprised they didn't say the bullet loving appeared mistakenly in his chest cavity You're not thinking like a cop. "While two CPD officers were discussing an ongoing case, one of them was shot and and struck by a bullet from a passerby without provocation. CPD detained and questioned 19 subjects, and plan to pursue charges against 3."
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Nov 5, 2021 21:36
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Cops... think?
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Nov 5, 2021 21:43
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Nov 13, 2021 14:01
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Wow, tragic
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Nov 13, 2021 14:10
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please knock Mom! posted:Wow, tragic
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Nov 14, 2021 04:07
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https://twitter.com/scotthech/status/1460103445067800576?s=21
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Nov 15, 2021 19:52
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Old but very lol from the back the blue crowd. 26 Republicans vote to block awards for Capitol Police on Jan 6. https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/15/politics/congressional-gold-medal-house-vote/index.html
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Nov 16, 2021 17:13
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