GIP Police Thread: [Sound of children screaming removed]

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mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Yeah, QI vs search and seizure, but regardless the general status quo is that cops are allowed to gently caress up the law, but citizens cannot use ignorance or misunderstanding of the law as a legal defense.

# ? Feb 22, 2020 15:52

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 14:14

ruddiger: Jun 3, 2004

No good deed.

https://eji.org/news/man-who-saved-three-prison-guards-executed-by-tennessee/

quote:

Man Who Saved Three Prison Guards Executed by Tennessee

The State of Tennessee executed Nicholas Sutton, 58, by electrocution last night after Governor Bill Lee denied a clemency application supported by correction staff, victims� family members, many of the original jurors, and those whose lives Mr. Sutton has saved.

�Nick Sutton has gone from a life-taker to a life-saver,� former federal district court judge Kevin Sharp wrote in Mr. Sutton�s clemency application. No fewer than seven former and current Tennessee correction officials supported clemency for Mr. Sutton, whom they described as �an honest, kind, and trustworthy man who has used his time in prison to better himself and show that change is possible.� One wrote that Mr. Sutton�s �efforts at self-improvement and willingness to embrace change are an inspiration.�

�Nicholas Sutton�s childhood was horrific,� a federal judge wrote in 2011. After his mother abandoned him when he was a baby, his violent, abusive, and mentally ill father beat him mercilessly. His father made his life a �living hell,� recalled Nick�s cousin, who was quoted in the clemency petition. His father beat Nick so badly he broke his arm and he held Nick and his grandmother at gunpoint, leading to an armed standoff with police. Nick became addicted to drugs after using drugs with his father at age 12, and his young brain suffered damage from childhood head injuries resulting in a loss of consciousness and two severe injuries to the orbital socket of the eye (he was shot in the eye as a child and hit with a lead pipe).

None of this evidence was presented to his jury, even though Nick was only 18 years old when he killed his paternal grandmother in Tennessee and two men in North Carolina. He was sentenced to life in Tennessee�s dangerous and overcrowded prisons, where incarcerated men lived in constant fear of violent attack. According to the petition, another incarcerated man attacked Nick with a lead pipe and hit him so hard that his eye became dislodged from its socket.

In 1985, Nick found himself in what former correction commissioner and warden James E. Aiken called a �kill or be killed� position with Carl Estep, an incarcerated man who told staff he planned to kill Nick. With no hope for protection from prison staff, Nick fatally stabbed Mr. Estep. He was 23 years old. Prosecutors offered him a life sentence conditioned on guilty pleas from him and his co-defendant; Mr. Sutton was willing to enter a guilty plea, but the co-defendant refused to accept a sentence to 30-40 years. Mr. Sutton was sentenced to death. (He was the only person in Tennessee under a death sentence for killing another incarcerated person.)

During his time in prison, Mr. Sutton saved the lives of three correction staff. He protected a guard from five prisoners who were trying to take him hostage during a 1985 prison riot at the Tennessee State Prison. �Nick risked his safety and well-being in order to save me from possible death. I owe my life to Nick Sutton,� the guard said in the clemency petition. �If Nick Sutton was released tomorrow, I would welcome him into my home and invite him to be my neighbor . . . It is my opinion that Nick Sutton, more than anyone else on Tennessee�s Death Row, deserves to live.�

Mr. Sutton also prevented an inmate from attacking a Sheriff�s Deputy from behind while he tried to break up a fight. And he protected a female correctional professional who had been injured in a fall. �He sprang into action, helped me to my feet, retrieved my keys and radio, and alerted staff to come to my assistance,� she said. �This was typical of Nick, who always puts others before himself and is willing to help anyone in need.�

When untreated multiple sclerosis left Paul House�who was exonerated and released from Tennessee�s death row in 2009�unable to walk, and the prison denied him a wheelchair, Mr. Sutton carried him around the prison. He took Mr. House to the shower every day, helped him wash, and carried him to visits with his mother, who told the governor in pleading for clemency, �Nick is the only reason Paul is alive today.�

Mr. Sutton also saved the life of a man who had collapsed in his cell from a punctured intestinal tract. And after Lee Hall Jr. went blind while on death row and was denied a cane or walking stick, Mr. Sutton guided him through the unit to ensure his safety. (Tennessee electrocuted Mr. Hall in December.)

Mr. Sutton studied mediation and conflict resolution to assist both peers and staff in reducing conflicts and became a leader in a combined class of divinity students and people sentenced to death taught by Dr. Graham Reside, Professor of Ethics at Vanderbilt Divinity School. In the clemency petition, Dr. Reside said that executing Nick Sutton �after such a valiant struggle to become a loving and generous witness in the world� would be unjust.

Correction officers told the governor that Mr. Sutton is �not the same man who committed those crimes.� He �has worked harder than any inmate I have known to better himself,� one said. �He has learned from his mistakes, has grown and matured, and he has become one of the most influential inmates, inspiring other inmates to better themselves.�

Five members of the jury that sentenced him to death and one alternate juror agreed that Mr. Sutton should not be executed and urged the governor to commute his death sentence. Victims� family members�including members of the Estep, Sutton, and Almon families�also asked the governor to spare Mr. Sutton�s life.

Despite the insistence of correction staff that Mr. Sutton was �living proof of the possibility of rehabilitation and the power of redemption,� the governor denied clemency on Wednesday. Nick Sutton was the fourth person killed by the State of Tennessee since January 2019, and the seventh since the state resumed executions in August 2018.

# ? Feb 24, 2020 05:09

Butter Activities: May 4, 2018

mlmp08 posted:

I was thinking specifically of Heien v North Carolina.

Basically cop stops someone without lawful cause based on his failure to understand the traffic law. Post-stop he finds drugs. Court finds that while he never had legal cause to pull over the car in the first place, that does not mean finding drugs afterward should be thrown out, as long as police can argue that the unlawful stop was a mistake rather than malicious.

That�s partially wrong. In this case, the evidence could be thrown out since there�s no probable cause for the initial stop that led to the discovery, BUT the officer can�t be held legally liable for stopping the person in the first place, regardless of how bad his PC was short of something like saying in court �I believe his race is not allowed to drive cars because I don�t believe in the bill of rights and thus I stopped him� that demonstrates he knew at the time he was violating the person�s constitutional rights.

It�s actually quite common for judges to throw out evidence in most decent court systems due to police errors but overcoming qualifed immunity is an insane legal standard and there�s a reason most Western and Northern EU countries instead go the route of �pay cops more and train them better while holding them more accountable to a specific standard� rather than the comedy option we have.

# ? Feb 24, 2020 05:31

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

"Chief Justice Roberts authored the majority opinion, with Justice Kagan filing a concurring opinion in which Justice Ginsburg joined, and Justice Sotomayor filing a dissenting opinion. The majority held that a police officer's reasonable mistake of law can indeed provide the individualized suspicion required by the Fourth Amendment to justify a traffic stop based upon that understanding. In her concurring opinion, Kagan wrote that the full text of North Carolina's law "poses a quite difficult question of interpretation, and Sergeant Darisse�s judgment, although overturned, had much to recommend it". In her dissent, Sotomayor argued that the reasonableness of a search or seizure should instead be determined by evaluating "an officer's understanding of the facts against the actual state of the law."[5][6]"

Potentially this applies only to traffic stops? But the general judgment is there that police "reasonable mistake of law" can provide probable cause for a stop.

What probably screws the defendant here more is that after the traffic stop, they consented to search. That and the SCOTUS general deference to cops being good to go as long as they don't publicly state that they're ignoring the law deliberately.

# ? Feb 24, 2020 15:44

Shooting Blanks: Jun 6, 2007; Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade

This....does not look like a good shoot.

A man who was shot by a Chicago police officer during a confrontation Friday afternoon at the CTA Grand Red Line station was initially stopped by officers for crossing between train cars, police said.

https://twitter.com/FreeRangeCritic/status/1233536447749201921

Edit: As an aside, I cannot imagine how loving loud that shot must have been at a subway station surrounded by tile with no earpro.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 19:40

Butter Activities: May 4, 2018

Jesus gently caress what is wrong with that lady.

Like yeah it can be hard to handcuff drunks but worst case scenario were trained to dig a knee or strike a limb until they decide it�s not worth it. Like at no point did that guy attempt to do anything besides be a drunk rear end in a top hat, he never reached for their guns.

You don�t get to loving shoot people because you (and your partner!) suck at your job.

Wait this is America, nv.

Butter Activities fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Feb 29, 2020

# ? Feb 29, 2020 19:51

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Ultimately she took the shot, but it sure sounds like her partner yells at her to shoot him far before she actually does. So whaddaya know, both cops bad.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 21:01

Shooting Blanks: Jun 6, 2007; Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade

mlmp08 posted:

Ultimately she took the shot, but it sure sounds like her partner yells at her to shoot him far before she actually does. So whaddaya know, both cops bad.

He did. He was calling for her to shoot him because he couldn't make the guy comply.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 21:03

Bored As Fuck: Jan 1, 2006; Be prepared; Fun Shoe

mlmp08 posted:

Ultimately she took the shot, but it sure sounds like her partner yells at her to shoot him far before she actually does. So whaddaya know, both cops bad.

Yeah, that was loving stupid.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 21:07

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Shooting Blanks posted:

This....does not look like a good shoot.

A man who was shot by a Chicago police officer during a confrontation Friday afternoon at the CTA Grand Red Line station was initially stopped by officers for crossing between train cars, police said.

https://twitter.com/FreeRangeCritic/status/1233536447749201921

Edit: As an aside, I cannot imagine how loving loud that shot must have been at a subway station surrounded by tile with no earpro.

gently caress's sake.

That guy would've gone unshot if either cop had been remotely in the physical shape to do their job and exercised any level of forethought at all. I mean gently caress, there's edit: two tazers just getting pushed around on the floor in front of the dude uncontrolled for most of a minute.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Mar 2, 2020

# ? Mar 2, 2020 11:52

pantslesswithwolves: Oct 28, 2008; Ba-dam ba-DUMMMMMM

How are cops handling routine traffic stops and face to face interactions during COVID?

# ? Mar 30, 2020 12:53

ASAPI: Apr 20, 2007; I invented the line.

pantslesswithwolves posted:

How are cops handling routine traffic stops and face to face interactions during COVID?

Good question. Many areas have already stated that they are NOT going to respond to certain calls. I would suspect that traffic stops are over all down, since there are fewer cars on the road. I have heard that there is a spike with major crashes due to people speeding on the almost empty roads.

# ? Mar 30, 2020 13:00

Chichevache: Feb 17, 2010; One of the funniest posters in GIP.

Just not intentionally.

pantslesswithwolves posted:

How are cops handling routine traffic stops and face to face interactions during COVID?

https://www.facebook.com/105699370864584/posts/198649934902860/

# ? Mar 30, 2020 13:10

Shooting Blanks: Jun 6, 2007; Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade

pantslesswithwolves posted:

How are cops handling routine traffic stops and face to face interactions during COVID?

I would expect you have to do something exceptionally dumb and/or dangerous on the roads to get pulled over right now.

# ? Mar 30, 2020 20:41

piL: Sep 20, 2007; (__|\\\\); Taco Defender

Shooting Blanks posted:

I would expect you have to do something exceptionally dumb and/or dangerous on the roads to get pulled over right now.

Cough cough, sniffs audibly through nose, "oh hello officer, yes here's my license and registration sorry it's kind of damp"

# ? Mar 31, 2020 03:37

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

pantslesswithwolves posted:

How are cops handling routine traffic stops and face to face interactions during COVID?

https://twitter.com/nick_w_estes/status/1244795542695116800

Edit: Full story to go with the tweet:

quote:

At least one Albuquerque Police Department officer shot and fatally injured a man after being called to conduct a welfare check in a house east of Downtown on Monday afternoon.

The man was taken to a hospital, where he died. Police have not publicly identified him.

APD Deputy Chief Harold Medina said that around 1:15 p.m., officers were sent to the 900 block of Edith SE, near Broadway and Coal, because an employer was concerned about an employee and wanted to see if he was OK.

�They made contact with the individual,� Medina said in a media briefing at the scene. �At this time, an altercation occurred between the officers and the individual, at which time at least one APD officer did discharge their firearm.�

Medina said the shooting occurred inside the house and no other civilians were there at the time. He said he did not know whether the man was armed with a gun or any other weapon. He didn�t provide any other information about the altercation.

�We don�t have that information yet,� Medina said. �They�re still working to process the scene. I don�t think they�ve even gone inside the house yet, the crime scene team.�

Medina said two officers were on the call, although he did not know whether both fired their weapons. He said they are both on paid administrative leave, which is standard.

The Multi Agency Task Force, made up of APD, the Bernalillo County Sheriff�s Office and the New Mexico State Police, is investigating the shooting.

Medina said investigators made some adjustments to lessen the risk of spreading of COVID-19 while they investigate.

�We briefed outside; we�re trying to maintain distance the best way we can,� he said.

Several of the man�s relatives gathered south of the crime scene tape, watching investigators move in and out of the wrought-iron gate in front of the house.

A neighbor, Viola Roybal, said that around 1:45 p.m. she heard three gunshots and went running outside. She said she had not heard any commotion before that.

�All I saw was cops coming from everywhere,� Roybal said. �Then we seen the ambulance take the guy away.�

Medina said APD will hold a full briefing once officers and witnesses have been interviewed and the investigation is further along. He said any available video will be released then.

This is the third shooting by APD officers this year.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 09:19

ruddiger: Jun 3, 2004

Can�t wait for the cops to charge the guy who called in with murder charges for making those cops go to that guys house and putting them in that scary position of murdering an unarmed man in his own place of residence.

# ? Apr 1, 2020 01:12

Shooting Blanks: Jun 6, 2007; Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade

I'm expecting a police shooting at some point where the cops then refuse to render aid due to social distancing.

# ? Apr 1, 2020 01:56

ruddiger: Jun 3, 2004

They already don�t render aid to those they just shot. If anything, this will curb them desecrating the corpses by putting them in handcuffs while they�re dead/bleeding out.

# ? Apr 1, 2020 02:09

iwentdoodie: Apr 29, 2005; 🤗YOU'RE WELCOME🤗

ruddiger posted:

They already don’t render aid to those they just shot. If anything, this will curb them desecrating the corpses by putting them in handcuffs while they’re dead/bleeding out.

But then how will they laugh and take photos with the bodies

# ? Apr 1, 2020 04:08

ruddiger: Jun 3, 2004

No days off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZL2y4xmuoE

# ? Apr 8, 2020 21:33

Hezzy: Dec 4, 2004; Pillbug

This thread is kinda poo poo

# ? Apr 8, 2020 22:12

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

Hezzy posted:

This thread is kinda poo poo

Was it ever going to be anything but?

# ? Apr 8, 2020 22:16

LtCol J. Krusinski: May 7, 2013

McNally posted:

Was it ever going to be anything but?

Honestly man, the difference between a good thread and a poo poo thread on a controversial topic usually is more about its moderation than anything else.

Your experience may differ, but I feel like with the right amount of thought and effort from a blue star or an IK, this thread and others could be made good.

I understand why you don�t expend the effort on it, just look at some of these assholes posts.. so please don�t take my post as being a dick.

Just imho moderation is the key, here and elsewhere. Look how well the CE thread runs with all the traffic and posters it see�s. That�s a result of good moderation.

# ? Apr 8, 2020 22:31

Internet Wizard: Aug 9, 2009; BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES

ruddiger posted:

No days off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZL2y4xmuoE

Bro you gotta cover your mouth AND nose with the mask

# ? Apr 8, 2020 22:36

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

LtCol J. Krusinski posted:

Honestly man, the difference between a good thread and a poo poo thread on a controversial topic usually is more about its moderation than anything else.

Your experience may differ, but I feel like with the right amount of thought and effort from a blue star or an IK, this thread and others could be made good.

I understand why you don�t expend the effort on it, just look at some of these assholes posts.. so please don�t take my post as being a dick.

Just imho moderation is the key, here and elsewhere. Look how well the CE thread runs with all the traffic and posters it see�s. That�s a result of good moderation.

No, you're absolutely right. This thread has never been a priority for me and it shows.

# ? Apr 8, 2020 23:22

ContinuityNewTimes: Dec 30, 2010; Я выдуман напрочь

Hezzy posted:

This thread is kinda poo poo

we could post some stuff about british police if you want something more local

# ? Apr 8, 2020 23:37

madeintaipei: Jul 13, 2012

LtCol J. Krusinski posted:

Honestly man, the difference between a good thread and a poo poo thread on a controversial topic usually is more about its moderation than anything else.

Your experience may differ, but I feel like with the right amount of thought and effort from a blue star or an IK, this thread and others could be made good.

I understand why you don’t expend the effort on it, just look at some of these assholes posts.. so please don’t take my post as being a dick.

Just imho moderation is the key, here and elsewhere. Look how well the CE thread runs with all the traffic and posters it see’s. That’s a result of good moderation.

Tried a cop thread in TFR, where I think we had fairly level-headed, well intentioned, and active moderation. No offense intended, McNally. Don't remember it lasting two days. People who had talked for years telling each other off in the worst ways. That dog got taken behind the shed before folks started biting the children.

# ? Apr 9, 2020 03:59

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

madeintaipei posted:

Tried a cop thread in TFR, where I think we had fairly level-headed, well intentioned, and active moderation. No offense intended, McNally. Don't remember it lasting two days. People who had talked for years telling each other off in the worst ways. That dog got taken behind the shed before folks started biting the children.

TFR cop-threads are extra bonkers because it's a mix of hardcore rightwing assholes, generic conservatives who buy hard into just world fallacy, SA-style liberals, SA-style leftists, and then the anti-authority mix of either rightwing anti-cop and also left-wing anti-cop, and they're sometimes unified by voting against everything ever except more guns, and it gets very stupid very fast.

# ? Apr 9, 2020 04:17

madeintaipei: Jul 13, 2012

mlmp08 posted:

TFR cop-threads are extra bonkers because it's a mix of hardcore rightwing assholes, generic conservatives who buy hard into just world fallacy, SA-style liberals, SA-style leftists, and then the anti-authority mix of either rightwing anti-cop and also left-wing anti-cop, and they're sometimes unified by voting against everything ever except more guns, and it gets very stupid very fast.

That's just, like, Tuesday in TFR. Crew-served weapons, but everyone tries to work it from in front of the barrel.

e: Lest you get the wrong idea, I appreciate you, muhlump.

# ? Apr 9, 2020 04:22

Internet Wizard: Aug 9, 2009; BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES

The TFR cop thread died because a cop came in and started accusing somebody who was the victim of police misconduct of actually being guilty and deserving that misconduct because otherwise why else would a cop have treated them that way

# ? Apr 9, 2020 13:25

Stravag: Jun 7, 2009

Yeah...thats some serious history revision going on in here

# ? Apr 9, 2020 14:03

PookBear: Nov 1, 2008

The problem is that you can't really have a discussion with cops because when you bring up widespread abuse of power they either are for it or they are nominally against it but fundamentally don't care enough to do anything about it.

When there was an article about a cop was found drunk and passed out in his car the cops here defended the decision to not fire the guy instead of simply saying thats hosed up

PookBear fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Apr 9, 2020

# ? Apr 9, 2020 14:10

Internet Wizard: Aug 9, 2009; BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES

Stravag posted:

Yeah...thats some serious history revision going on in here

You're right I left out the part where the same cop started claiming that calling out cops is basically racism against cops

Here, check it out yourself https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3903047&userid=158613

GreglFaggins starts out by responding to Shooting Blanks's story by claiming Shooting Blanks is lying in each of his responses, says the cops were justified in their misconduct because maybe he actually was lying and deserved it, and then drops

quote:

Ill give it a try. You shouldnt be ACAB as gently caress because in doing so youre marginalizing and/or vilifying an entire segment of society based upon their profession based and on X number of interactions, personal or read/seen YouTube videos about. Replace profession with race/religion/creed in my previous sentence and you have the makings of a hate crime. Youre essentially doing the same thing to that segment of society that you perceive them to be doing to you. I promise you that you can be a better human being than that.

quote:

The thought process is shockingly similar. I hate this person because theyre a/an X. And you can choose religion or creed.

# ? Apr 9, 2020 15:46

piL: Sep 20, 2007; (__|\\\\); Taco Defender

LtCol J. Krusinski posted:

Just imho moderation is the key, here and elsewhere. Look how well the CE thread runs with all the traffic and posters it see’s. That’s a result of good moderation.

Part of why CE functions us these peripheral threads where you can tell people to take it outside so they dont mess up the furniture.

# ? Apr 9, 2020 16:47

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

piL posted:

CE functions

Well that's an interesting take.

Nah, CE's really not too bad these days

# ? Apr 9, 2020 17:28

Stravag: Jun 7, 2009

Internet Wizard posted:

You're right I left out the part where the same cop started claiming that calling out cops is basically racism against cops

Here, check it out yourself https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3903047&userid=158613

GreglFaggins starts out by responding to Shooting Blanks's story by claiming Shooting Blanks is lying in each of his responses, says the cops were justified in their misconduct because maybe he actually was lying and deserved it, and then drops

I was agreeing with you lol

# ? Apr 9, 2020 19:05

iwentdoodie: Apr 29, 2005; 🤗YOU'RE WELCOME🤗

Stravag posted:

Yeah...thats some serious history revision going on in here

Almost like they cant help it even in their off time.

# ? Apr 10, 2020 05:52

Proud Christian Mom: Dec 20, 2006; READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD

here's psychotic philly transit cops throwing a black guy off a bus for not wearing a mask. now your question is, "does have to wear a mask?" and the answer is no one knows for certain.

either way, they could have just given the guy a mask instead.

https://twitter.com/phillyTRU/status/1248653656733495301?s=20

# ? Apr 10, 2020 19:24

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 14:14

Internet Wizard: Aug 9, 2009; BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES

How come the cop�s not wearing one while he�s on the bus then

# ? Apr 10, 2020 19:58

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > GIP Police Thread: [Sound of children screaming removed]

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