GIP Police Thread: [Sound of children screaming removed]

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Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Coasterphreak posted:

This guy got my point.

Also the point was tacitly directed at the whole "members of the community" sentiment: it's hard to be a member of the community if you can't afford to live there because gigantic national property corporations buy up all of the reasonably priced housing and flip it so they can charge enormous amounts of rent.

Unless it's zoned for multifamily already, in which case they evict everyone, knock the whole thing down, and build "mixed use" that rents for 2.5 times what it did before.

The solution is not being a paid enforcer for the rich who are set on gentrifying the community out of existence if you want to be a member of the community, buddy.

Hope that helps.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2019 04:56

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# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 17:48

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Melthir posted:

They literally do though, as a volunteer fire fighter I've seen them over and over no matter what town I've been stationed in. Dudes take the extra time to listen and talk. Dont run around in a brodozer. Its generally the guys in the mid 30s or younger. Just because they don't support your bullshit fantasy doesn't mean they are not out there and common enough.

That's the thing.

A good person who becomes a cop lasts as a 'good cop' precisely until they realize that they cannot stop the bad cops from abusing their power.

At that point they either stop being a cop, or stop being good and start being complicit in the coverups.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2019 09:55

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Melthir posted:

Bullshit, thats a loving strawman from hell. You are not responsible for someone else's actions. You are responsible for you. If someone else does something hosed up pass it up the chain. If they choose not to act that's on them. If it's bad enough contact the IG or IA. You do the best you can do every day. I've been doing this gig 16 years now and yeah the assholes get to be a pain but if you don't make a change but can prevent poo poo from getting worse then your doing your community a favor if some idealist gently caress like me wasn't filling this gig they'd likely put some Gomer Pyle gently caress in my spot. Every single day you can make a difference is just whether you going to let this poo poo grind you down or not.

Some days it sucks worse then others, so what that's loving called life. But if by just not being a gently caress up your able to make someone's life better then that's good enough. I'd rather it be me or one of my buddies show up then some tacticool fuckwit who should have never been hired in the first place showing up and using force when there was no reason for it. Just by being a decent human being prevents 90% of the bullshit from kicking off in the first place.

Also generally the guys who get help or talk about the hosed up poo poo and work out generally are not the guys I'm worried about cracking skills. It's the broody fucks who eat like poo poo and keep it all to themselves, it eats at them like cancer.

It's pretty provable.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-08/nu-poe080119.php?fbclid=IwAR3Drm71gkwbU0mgBIvabquuzdFcryaAxOWZ_DB84Ae6KNiE3wjIkkMGTZc

I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings to have it pointed out, but the systemic rot is real.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2019 21:04

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

mlmp08 posted:

Honestly, shootings like this one are a good argument for why, despite the poo poo we give them, cops are necessary.

We need cops for times when a fucker is murdering people rapidly and with wanton. We need cops less for busting people for harmless poo poo like weed, loitering, and [activity] while black.

So picking a mass shooting as reason to dunk on cops is a bit off to me. There are soooo many reasons to dunk on cops but at least bro-douche casual bigot cop is temporarily part of the fight against active shooters, even if he and the shooter both post racist memes?

I dunno. Mostly pissed some fragile white boy from elsewhere shot up my city because of those durn brown people.

The other issue is that the cops seem to be strongly inclined to assist said right wing domestic terrorist organizations in any circumstance that isn't about an active shooter. Check out Portland PD coordinating with the Proud Boys for a recent egregious example.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2019 03:25

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

bulletsponge13 posted:

Don't pretend like he is the only example post-Columbine. No duty to protect, along with 'I ain't dying in no ghetto' breeds cowardice.

Don't forget the contempt for 'civilians'. Training cops like infantrymen breeds cops treating those they interact with like hostile populations in an occupied country: The story of policing since 9/11.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2019 20:15

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Meanwhile in Saint Louis: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/st-louis-sergeant-there-are-white-supremacists-on-the-police-force/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=71676634

quote:

"Do you think that there are white supremacists on the police force?" asked CBS News correspondent Jeff Pegues.

"Yes" said Heather Taylor, an almost 19-year veteran on the St. Louis Metro police force.

"You didn't even pause," Pegues said.

"Have you seen some of the Facebook posts of some of our suspended officers right now?" Taylor responded. "Yes."

Taylor pointed to the recent report by the Plain View Project that flagged thousands of racist and derogatory social media posts, including some from 22 current St. Louis Metro officers. One of the posts from a St. Louis officer compared Black Lives Matter to the KKK.

But I'm sure it's just a few bad apples and not a systemic issue across the country.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2019 22:35

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

I mean it gets pretty obvious when stuff like this keeps coming up nearly daily:

https://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/2019/08/michigan-police-officer-suspended-after-kkk-memorabilia-found-in-home.html

quote:

MUSKEGON, MI � A Muskegon police officer has been placed on administrative leave while the city investigates an allegation that his home contains racist memorabilia.

City Manager Frank Peterson said officer Charles Anderson, who is white, is on leave indefinitely pending the investigation.

The memorabilia was discovered by an African-American Muskegon man who toured Anderson�s house, which is for sale.

The Muskegon man, Rob Mathis, posted on Facebook that he and his wife saw Confederate flags in the house and garage, and a framed �Application for citizenship� to the Ku Klux Klan on a wall in a bedroom. Mathis posted a picture of the framed KKK document on Facebook.

Peterson confirmed that house, which is located in the northern Muskegon County community of Holton, is owned by Anderson.

�I immediately stopped my walk-through and informed the realtor that I am not writing an offer on this home and I am leaving now,� Mathis wrote on Facebook about after he saw the KKK document. �I feel sick to my stomach knowing that I walk to the home of one of the most racist people in Muskegon hiding behind his uniform and possibly harassing people of color and different nationalities.�

Mathis did not name Anderson in his post but concluded: �To the officer, I know who you are and I will be looking at resources to expose your prejudice. As for now pictures speak 1000 words.�

Peterson said Anderson has been on the Muskegon police force for more than 20 years.

Reached at his house, Anderson told an MLive reporter: �They said not to talk about it. That�s what they told me. Because it�s under internal investigation they said not to make a statement.� Anderson declined to elaborate.

The officer�s union, Police Officers Labor Council, declined to discuss the matter, saying they don�t comment on pending issues.

Edit: Better article with more details.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Aug 9, 2019

# ¿ Aug 9, 2019 03:39

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

I'm still pretty firmly of the opinion that resolving the biggest issues of policing requires solving the basic problem of how police are trained, funded, and managed.

Stop training cops like they're anti-terrorism units. Focus on community policing, teach de-escalation, and develop better training and policy around dealing with the mentally ill.

Remove the perverse incentives around tying funding to ticketing.

Build an independent federal-level organization under to DoJ to prosecute malfeasance, rather than relying on local prosecutors who risk their career if they push too hard because other police will sabotage cases in revenge.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2019 05:28

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Chichevache posted:

I'll look him up. I'm curious to see how he thinks this would work. I know that's how it often worked prior to the advent of modern policing. I still don't see how that doesn't devolve into the elites using the police for their own advantage. As a millenial I'm not feeling predisposed to trusting elders (boomers).

That is always going to be an issue until we manage to build a political system the rich can't afford to buy.

Since that's not happening any time soon, reform that is presently achievable can focus on making enforcement egalitarian, making punishment focused on reformation rather than punitive measures, and holding those responsible accountable when power is abused.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2019 04:27

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

I wanted to bring this here because it illustrates one of the problems we keep talking about :

https://twitter.com/ErnieLies/status/1162741430424674305

Note the refusal to even speculate on the existence of responsibility to be assumed, to the point of writing in such a way that it appears that the truck a corrections officer drove into protesters (on video, I note) did so of its own volition.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2019 10:43

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Chichevache posted:

I'm not defending the murder of a man, but the job is still to arrest people committing crimes.

Part of that job, and one of the most vital parts in fact, is also knowing when and how force is justified.

A cop's ego being hurt because they aren't given the deference they expect isn't a justification for use of force, no matter how much they want it to be.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2019 04:01

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Any day now.

Yep. After the whole bit where a bunch of right wingers staged an armed occupation of federal property and threatened to shoot the feds a couple years ago, it's definitely 'any day now'.

As a reminder, they did over $2 million worth of damages to that wildlife refuge during a six week armed standoff, including trying to destroy native burial grounds, and the worst any of them got was 21 months in jail. The majority got probation only and the leaders were tried and acquitted.

quote:

By February 11, all of the militants had surrendered or withdrawn from the occupation, with several leaders having been arrested after leaving the site; one of them, Robert LaVoy Finicum, was shot and killed during an attempt to arrest him after he reached toward a handgun concealed in his pocket after he tried to evade a roadblock; Ryan Bundy was wounded. More than two dozen of the militants were charged with federal offenses including conspiracy to obstruct federal officers, firearms violations, theft, and depredation of federal property. By August 2017, a dozen had pleaded guilty, and six of those had been sentenced to 1�2 years probation, some including house arrest. Seven others, including Ammon and Ryan Bundy, were tried and acquitted of all federal charges. Four more had been found guilty and were sentenced months later: Jake Ryan and Duane Ehmer each received 366 days in prison, with Ryan additionally getting three years of supervised probation. Darryl Thorn received 18 months on November 21, 2017. Jason Patrick received 21 months on February 15, 2018.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2019 11:18

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

EBB posted:

How about departments de-militarize? You don't need IED-resistant vehicles, and the operator chic needs to go away from SWAT units. When I see a cop, the things that stand out most are the big yellow taser and any moto poo poo they have on. I don't want to go talk to somebody loaded for bear, that's scary. Even 20th's century era NYPD uniformed cops look more approachable for directions or help than today's comparable beat outfits.

Yep. The ACLU did a report on this a few years ago, and it's only gotten worse. The War on Drugs created justification and the War on Terror opened up budgets and provided an excuse to militarize further.

quote:

Our analysis shows that the militarization of American policing is evident in the training that police officers receive, which encourages them to adopt a �warrior� mentality and think of the people they are supposed to serve as enemies, as well as in the equipment they use, such as battering rams, flashbang grenades, and APCs. This shift in culture has been buoyed by the U.S. Supreme Court�s weakening of the Fourth Amendment (which protects the right to privacy in one�s home) through a series of decisions that have given the police increased authority to force their way into people�s homes, often in drug cases.

Additionally, solving the problem of police militarization requires discussion of how SWAT teams should be appropriately used and when their deployment is counterproductive and dangerous. Even though paramilitary policing in the form of SWAT teams was created to deal with emergency scenarios such as hostage or barricade situations, the use of SWAT to execute search warrants in drug investigations has become commonplace and made up the overwhelming majority of incidents the ACLU reviewed�79 percent of the incidents the ACLU studied involved the use of a SWAT team to search a person�s home, and more than 60 percent of the cases involved searches for drugs. The use of a SWAT team to execute a search warrant essentially amounts to the use of paramilitary tactics to conduct domestic criminal investigations in searches of people�s homes.

# ¿ Aug 21, 2019 05:11

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Most departments don't seem to be trained that the taser is a less-lethal weapon, not a non-lethal pain compliance device.

It is less likely to kill someone than a bullet or a few whacks upside the head with a truncheon, but it definitely isn't safe.

# ¿ Aug 21, 2019 09:15

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

I'm just going to keep posting this stuff because screaming into the void keeps me from sticking my head in a woodchipper for another hour.

https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1167189416135286785?s=20

quote:

Two former New York City police officers who admitted to having sex with an 18-year-old woman who accused them of raping her while she was under arrest and handcuffed in their police van reportedly took a plea deal to avoid jail time, The New York Post reports. Eddie Martins and Richard Hall pleaded guilty in Brooklyn Supreme Court on Thursday to 11 counts of receiving bribes and misdemeanor official misconduct, Martins' lawyer told the newspaper. Under the plea deal, the two men will serve five years of probation but no jail time. According to the lawyer, the victim was not notified of the deal�but her lawyer said his client was outraged when notified by the Post. �They�re getting away with rape,� attorney Michael David said �They raped my client and they�re not getting any jail time?... That�s outrageous."

Martins and Hall admitted they had sex with the then-18-year-old after a drug bust on Coney Island in 2017, though they insisted the encounter was consensual and the teenager was not handcuffed. The two men originally faced rape and kidnapping charges, but those were dropped earlier this year.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2019 02:21

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Stravag posted:

Yeah. The people who are ok with it seem to not notice how there would be an issue there

Same people who I'm sure don't believe duress is a thing.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2019 04:31

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Yep. Sheriffs alone, there are 99 individual departments in my state. That's not counting, say, the eight suburbs/exurbs in one county each with their own department for cities.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2019 20:49

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Interesting video here from a former police trainer about the terrible misapplication of police tactics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmjB7TUroyE

# ¿ Sep 10, 2019 23:57

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/1174343428563492866

The rare sighting of a court -not- granting immunity to an officer who randomly murders a family pet.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2019 18:52

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Meanwhile in 'the sheer arrogance of these people', here's a clip compilation of a cop repeatedly planting drugs during traffic stops.

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1174572076629483520

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/07/10/former-jackson-county-deputy-zach-wester-arrested-drug-planting-probe/1693260001/

quote:

A former Florida deputy was arrested Wednesday morning on numerous charges that he planted street drugs like meth on unsuspecting motorists before hauling them off to jail.

Zach Wester, 26, was arrested on felony charges of racketeering, official misconduct, fabricating evidence, possession of a controlled substance and false imprisonment.

The one-time Jackson County deputy faces misdemeanor charges of perjury, possession of a controlled substance and possession of drug paraphernalia, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement said.

...

Christina Pumphrey, a former assistant state attorney in Marianna who helped bring Wester's alleged misdeeds to light, said she was "incredibly surprised" to learn of his arrest because she didn't think he'd ever get charged.

"It doesn't change what the rest of the people went through because of him," she said. "It doesn't give them their time back. It doesn't give them their money back. It doesn't expunge their records � they still have at least arrest histories. But it's still something."

# ¿ Sep 19, 2019 19:39

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

They likely legally can't.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2019 08:00

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Wasabi the J posted:

So how do we begin to fix this?

As I've been posting for literally years: A federal-level org under DoJ whose sole purpose is to prosecute cops.

Take it entirely out of the hands of locals, investigate and try all of these cases federally, and preferably on CSPAN so everyone can see the evidence, and see every 'blue wall of silence' motherfucker who's willing to lie on the stand to protect a shitbag.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2019 03:39

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

I was being facetious when I posted the police boat, but seriously - who else is meant to handle enforcement of speed limits and safe boating practices?

Usually the DNR here, since that's who licenses boats in the first place, but I live approximately as far from salt water as possible.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2019 05:53

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

45 ACP CURES NAZIS posted:

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Man-Fatally-Shot-at-Dallas-Apartment-Complex-562267151.html

Dorner was right

You know, I hate to be paranoid, but 'dude who just stood to witness on a dirty cop getting put away is assassinated via drive-by, no leads found' is some pretty scarily circumstantial poo poo, and needs to be investigated well above the Dallas PD's level.

I would put a fair bit of money on the chances that someone knows something there. It's too convenient.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Oct 6, 2019

# ¿ Oct 6, 2019 03:44

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

joat mon posted:

That's a backwards and deeply cynical way to put it.
Applying the law to the evidence presented at trial required the judge to give that instruction. That is, it would be legally wrong for the judge not to give the instruction.
Appeals are to correct things that go legally wrong in a trial.
If Guyger lost, the failure to give the instruction would be a great basis for appeal, and an honest court would be hard pressed to not reverse the verdict and send the case back for a new trial.

Give the jury the information the law requires them to have and they give you result you don't like? Tough poo poo, you're trying to appeal the facts the jury found during their deliberations. You lose.
Don't give the jury the information the law requires them to have and they give you result you don't like? Congratulations, you've got a fantastic appeal issue, because the jury was given bad legal instructions on how they have analyze the facts to make their decision. Their premises are flawed which makes their factual decisions legally flawed. Maybe it accidentally was the right result, but the accused still gets a new trial where the jury will get the instructions they're required to get, to apply to the facts they've heard and seen.

Ironically, the same folks whinging about the judge giving the instruction would be the exact same folks whinging about an appeals court sending the case back for a new trial if the judge had pandered to them and not given the instruction.

It's a pretty accurate way to put it, given the judge had the foresight to make sure all the t's were crossed and i's were dotted rather than intentionally 'forget' to mention it and provoke a retrial that could get a friendly jury.

A more cop friendly judge would have made that 'oversight'.

# ¿ Oct 7, 2019 09:25

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

My Spirit Otter posted:

ya, well, deathsquad implies its sanctioned by the government and no matter how we feel about the current administration, we can all agree they're far too incompetent to do anything like that.

i dont know what term id use to describe it, but deathsquad feels wrong.

Deathsquad feels wrong because we shouldn't have death squads in the US.

It is unfortunately accurate given the likelihood that these people will be sheltered by the police and not face any real effort to investigate this crime and bring them to trial, because they chose a target that the local police already have reason to want to see taken down for daring to take the stand against one of their own.

# ¿ Oct 8, 2019 04:16

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Oh, hey. Here's why he was assassinated.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amber-...0_7b4OpJ3YTvfTE

He was going to testify in the civil case against the Dallas PD.

# ¿ Oct 8, 2019 09:30

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

https://twitter.com/DallasPD/status/1181633348915142657

Dallas PD laying the groundwork.

# ¿ Oct 9, 2019 00:10

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Victor Vermis posted:

I helped you find a home for this article which cites Breaking Bad in its deconstruction of the motivations of people killing each other over illegal substances/money and their actions subsequent to committing a murder.

Not for nothing, I've had first hand experience with people who travel greater distances than that for marijuana and who have killed for less. I get why people want to assume the worst here with regard to DPD ("ACAB", etc), and I would hope another agency (State? FBI?) is able to thoroughly unpack the investigation for the public in order to restore some modicum of faith in the community that their local law enforcement agency isn't trying to murder and intimidate them into submission. Or, you know, prosecute the entire DPD if that is exactly what is going on.

So think about it this way.

Can you think of any other person or organization, when public rumor suggests they may have been involved in a crime, gets away with making those sort of open if lightly veiled threats towards their critics during an ongoing investigation?

# ¿ Oct 11, 2019 13:12

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

mlmp08 posted:

Saying that words from others expressing doubt in the PD�s integrity may cause the police to shed their own integrity reads as a threat.

This. That's where the threat is implicit.

'Don't say these things or we may forget our integrity and make you regret it.'

'Jeopardize the integrity of the City of Dallas' is another explicit threat to simply stop doing their job. If you're not aware of what a 'blue flu' looks like, take a minute to read up.

# ¿ Oct 11, 2019 23:28

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Shooting Blanks posted:

This is the more important part of the tweet in my opinion. I think the "thinly veiled threat" as it's been called here is just a poor command of the English language. But a declarative statement about innocence/guilt or whether third party comments are factual or not is not only incredibly premature, it's a clear conflict of interest. There is no way for the Chief of DPD to know with absolute certainty whether or not his department was involved - the investigation/judicial process around a murder generally takes weeks at a minimum, more often months unless they have a signed confession.

To me this reads more like "Move along citizen, nothing to see here" than it does a threat. And when the victim in this case was a key witness in a murder trial that already had a corrupted investigation process by the same department that just doesn't fly - DPD needs to be more forthcoming, not obfuscating further.

"Move along citizen, nothing to see here" is also an implicit threat.

Edit: Remember also this is Texas. Even if the lady was armed to the teeth and carrying an AK at high ready, she'd be perfectly within her legal rights.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Oct 13, 2019

# ¿ Oct 13, 2019 09:29

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Godholio posted:

I suspect that's not how most of them see it.

I worry more than it's exactly how many of them see it, and they want to be on the winning side.

# ¿ Oct 14, 2019 06:34

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

UP THE BUM NO BABY posted:

https://twitter.com/AllisonFox4News/status/1183892349371457536?s=19

Good.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2019 02:59

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Chichevache posted:

Disarm everyone or you have accountants and cashiers responding to active shooter situations.

Keep separate armed units that only respond to things like this.

Joe Bob Patrol Officer not being armed stands to reduce unnecessary homicides by at least a thousand a year, which would be a 5-10% reduction in the overall homicide rate.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2019 23:40

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

A Bad Poster posted:

That number doesn't seem that high to be honest, and adds another tick mark in the column of "take guns away from the cops."

When you consider 'got hit by a passing car' (the most common cop death at work) is a line of duty death, yeah. Cops aren't even top 10 for most dangerous jobs in the US. They're 18. Behind garbagemen, roofers, construction workers in general, groundskeepers, farmers, drivers, steelworkers, loggers, and fishermen.

quote:

18. Police and sheriff's patrol officers
� Fatal injuries in 2017: 12.9 per 100,000 workers
� Total: 95 fatal injuries
� Most common fatal accidents: Violence and other injuries by persons or animals
� Median annual wage: $61,050

Given the nature of police work, this makes sense. Officers are frequently required to work in high-risk situations, engaging in high-speed chases and confronting potentially violent individuals. The most common cause of workplace fatalities among police officers is direct violence from other people, but a close second is transportation accidents.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2019 12:21

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

It's dumb as gently caress from a firearms perspective. Subway train walls aren't going to stop gunfire at close range, and you've got hundreds of bystanders who will get that bullet instead.

# ¿ Oct 28, 2019 07:32

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/oct/30/im-going-to-put-a-bullet-in-your-brain-graphic-vid/

quote:

The Spokane Police Department on Wednesday released graphic body camera footage of a February incident in which an officer shouted an expletive and threatened to kill a suspect before hoisting a police dog into the cab of a pickup truck to subdue the man.

Edit: I was trying to call out the :stare:

parts, but I have to post the whole article.

quote:

By Chad Sokol
and Jared Brown
The Spokesman-Review
The Spokane Police Department on Wednesday released graphic body camera footage of a February incident in which an officer shouted an expletive and threatened to kill a suspect before hoisting a police dog into the cab of a pickup truck to subdue the man.

The arrest of Lucas Ellerman, 29, who is now serving time at the Airway Heights Corrections Center, triggered a citizen�s complaint and an impasse between City Council members and the Spokane Police Guild, which objected to the police ombudsman�s involvement in an internal investigation.

Spokane police Chief Craig Meidl and Capt. Tom Hendren, who leads the patrol division, presented the footage to reporters on Wednesday afternoon. They concluded that Officers Daniel Lesser and Scott Lesser had acted reasonably by pointing guns and using a dog to apprehend Ellerman, whom they believed to be armed and dangerous.

Body camera video / Spokane Police Department

Department supervisors did, however, find that Dan Lesser�s statements � including �I�m going to put a bullet in your brain� and repeatedly saying �I will f***ing kill you� � were inappropriate and a violation of department policy, though Hendren noted that police have �an actual obligation of law to warn of impending force.�

�The manner in which he did it is concerning, obviously, with some of the things he said,� Hendren said. �But he is trying to convey that message.�

Supervisors also faulted Dan Lesser and a third officer, Mark Brownell, for failing to activate their body cameras at the start of the vehicle pursuit.

Meidl said Wednesday the officers weren�t yet informed of their disciplinary sanctions. He said the department would publicly disclose those sanctions later this week.

The officers arrested Ellerman near Fifth Avenue and Custer Road � just east of the city limits outside the East Central Neighborhood � after a brief vehicle pursuit on Feb. 12.

After pinning Ellerman�s truck against a snow bank, Dan Lesser drew his gun, got out of his vehicle and used his baton to smash Ellerman�s driver�s side window while shouting threats.

Sitting in the front passenger seat, Ellerman told Dan Lesser that he had a pistol, refusing orders to get out of the truck, the video shows. He apparently attempted to smoke a cigarette during the encounter.

Scott Lesser then smashed the passenger side window of the truck, and Ellerman climbed between the front seats into the back of the cab. Dan Lesser, a K-9 handler, asked Scott Lesser, his nephew, to retrieve the dog from his vehicle. In the video, Ellerman appears to be pulling himself back into the front seats when Dan Lesser lifts the dog through the driver�s side window.

�I�m coming,� Ellerman said. �I give up.�

The dog immediately bit Ellerman�s left leg, leaving a puncture wound that required stitches and prompting him to scream loudly. Officers then dragged him out of the window with the dog�s teeth still clenched to his leg, the video shows. Scott Lesser�s body camera footage shows him punching Ellerman several times in the head while Ellerman is being handcuffed.

Ellerman did not have a gun on his person or in the truck. In the video, he says he lied about having one because he wanted Lesser to shoot him. Meidl said Ellerman later feigned a heroin overdose in an attempt to escape from a local hospital.

Dan Lesser joined the Spokane Police Department in 1995 and has been involved in five police shootings. Scott Lesser joined the department in 2008 and has been involved in two police shootings.

Both officers belong to the department�s Patrol Anti-Crime Team, or PACT, as well as the U.S. Marshals Service�s Pacific Northwest Violent Offender Task Force.

Earlier this month, the Spokane County Prosecutor�s Office determined Dan Lesser was justified when he shot at a fleeing man on the lower South Hill in July. Lesser fired two rounds at 46-year-old Charles E. Jackson Jr. during a foot pursuit but did not strike him.

On Wednesday, Meidl and Hendren said the officers had reason to believe Ellerman was armed and dangerous. They noted his 11 prior felony convictions, which include second-degree assault and theft of a firearm, and said he was wanted for drug possession and illegal possession of a firearm.

Hendren added that a confidential informant had recently told police that Ellerman was in possession of a silver handgun and �was making statements that he was not going to return to jail.�

Before Ellerman�s arrest, PACT officers and U.S. Marshals had been surveilling a residence where they believed Ellerman was staying. They watched as a Chevy pickup left the area, Hendren said.

Scott Lesser and Brownell stopped the truck to question the driver and see if Ellerman was inside, and Dan Lesser arrived shortly afterward, Hendren said.

The driver complied and got out of the truck. But, unknown to the officers, Ellerman had been hiding in the back seat, Hendren said.

Scott Lesser told Dan Lesser after Ellerman�s arrest that he had seen the driver of the car putting things in the back of the car, which made him suspicious.

During the traffic stop, Ellerman climbed into the driver�s seat and drove away. Scott Lesser attempted several pursuit intervention techniques, or PIT maneuvers, before Ellerman�s truck slid into a snow bank and several vehicles at the �T� intersection of Fifth and Custer, several blocks from the residence.

The Lessers then boxed in Ellerman�s truck with their police vehicles � Scott at the rear and Dan at the driver�s side. Ellerman continued stepping on the gas pedal, rocking the truck back and forward in the snow, the video shows.

In their reports, Dan Lesser wrote that he feared Ellerman might have concealed a gun somewhere in the cab of the truck.

�It appeared to me that (Ellerman) was always calculating and looking for a way to escape and was feigning cooperation,� Lesser wrote.

Hendren said it was unusual, but not unacceptable, for Dan Lesser to ask Scott Lesser to retrieve the police dog.

Hendren and Meidl said other techniques might have been used to remove Ellerman from the vehicle, but the Lessers did not err by deploying the police dog. Hendren noted that both doors to the truck were blocked � one by Dan Lesser�s car, one by the snow bank � making it difficult to pull Ellerman out.

Meidl said the officers had to make quick decisions in a stressful, potentially dangerous situation.

In April, Ellerman was sentenced to 70 months in prison and a year of probation after pleading guilty to drug possession, unlawful possession of a firearm, two counts of attempting to elude a police vehicle and three counts of drug possession with intent to deliver.

Police brass already were reviewing Ellerman�s arrest, as they do with all major uses of force, when police Ombudsman Bart Logue learned about it months later from Brian Breen, a retired Spokane police detective and blogger. Logue filed a complaint that prompted an internal affairs investigation in May.

Two weeks ago, Logue criticized a change to the police department�s use-of-force review policy that removed language requiring supervisors to enter any allegation or concern about a possible use-of-force violation as an internal affairs complaint, triggering an investigation with oversight from the ombudsman�s office.

The new policy says supervisors should complete a use-of-force report to be forwarded up the police chain of command and that only egregious violations would require immediate notification of a police captain.

In a letter to Meidl asking him to reconsider the change, Logue said his concerns about improper use-of-force reviews peaked in May when it appeared the previous policy had not been followed.

He said it exacerbated his �concerns on interviews taking place off the record, improper investigations, and special treatment; as well as an absolute removal of an oversight mechanism.�

Meidl said Logue would have learned about the Ellerman incident when the use-of-force review was completed. Logue, meanwhile, has questioned why the department didn�t notify him sooner.

�The case file now reflects all the facts and nothing is going on behind closed doors,� Logue said Wednesday. �At the end of the day, we want our community members to trust our police officers.�

Jenny Rose, chair of the Police Ombudsman Commission, said she was shocked by the video, which each member of the commission has viewed.

�The behavior is disgusting,� Rose said. �The majority of police officers would not engage in this type of conduct.�

She said she worries how the incident would have been reviewed if not for Logue�s complaint.

�If the old policy had been followed, this incident would have been reported� to internal affairs, Rose said. The new policy, which would not necessarily lead to outside oversight from the ombudsman�s office, is �a regression instead of using this example to make it even better.�

The Spokane Police Guild � the union representing the department�s rank and file � objected to Logue�s involvement in the internal affairs investigation. City Council members declined the guild�s request to sign nondisclosure agreements in exchange for viewing the body camera footage before its public release.

�Over the past eight years, we have worked hard to improve transparency and accountability related to use of force and to continually refine our practices,� Mayor David Condon said in a statement Wednesday.

�While this incident removed a highly dangerous individual from our streets, the demeanor and disturbing language used by the officer in this incident demonstrates that we must continue to hold our officers accountable to the highest standards of conduct,� Condon said.

City Council President Ben Stuckart, who is running for mayor, said the conduct was unacceptable and the subsequent review process underscores the need for the ombudsman�s office to have more authority. He said the department�s new use-of-force review policy is unacceptable.

�The current process is broken,� Stuckart said.

Nadine Woodward, who is running against Stuckart for mayor, did not respond to a request for comment.

City Councilman Breean Beggs, a City Council president candidate, said he favors the previous use-of-force review policy and wants to negotiate with the police guild for the ombudsman to have greater access in these types of cases.

Lesser �took it too far,� said Beggs.

�It was obviously a violent and disturbing encounter,� said Beggs, who is looking forward to a report from Logue�s office about whether the use of a police dog was best practice.

Police dogs were used in 132 of 616 use-of-force incidents � 21% � from 2013 to 2018, according to the city�s use-of-force dashboard. A hundred of those incidents occurred in 2018.

Cindy Wendle, Beggs� opponent for City Council president, said the language used during Ellerman�s arrest was �pretty troubling.�

�I�m glad there is a process in place for review, and I think we need to hold our officers to a high standard,� she said.

Wendle said she is open to reviewing police oversight mechanisms if elected.

�I do believe that transparency and building trust is the most important thing that we can do,� Wendle said.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Nov 1, 2019

# ¿ Nov 1, 2019 00:39

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Internet Wizard posted:

Cool. What�s your hot take on what GWS is up to these days?

We're making soup. Come make soup with us.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2019 21:53

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

Grem posted:

This is exactly what DHS will argue.

Yup, and they'll get away with it because they have effectively zero oversight.

Same reason the TSA has a $7billion + budget yet for nearly a decade now has failed more than 75% of their own testing to see if contraband weapons can pass checkpoints.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2019 11:56

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 17:48

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; Out here, everything hurts.

EBB posted:

Two suspects hijack a UPS truck, cops murder the UPS driver being held hostage and an innocent bystander FIRING INTO TRAFFIC

https://twitter.com/rklueber28/status/1202722185690914817?s=20

https://abcnews.go.com/US/multiple-fatalities-shootout-theft-ups-truck-florida-police/story?id=67531552

Not only did the straight up murder that driver, look at the car behind the truck.

They had no loving idea what was in their backstop, which is to say they were unloading with handguns and what looks to be an AR into moving traffic, and another bystander died because of it.

Chichevache posted:

Unless they were shooting indiscriminately as they drove I don't see a reason to engage them. As you said, it looks like the cops opened fire first, which would definitely be bad. But that doesn't necessarily mean the hostage takers hadn't been shooting as they fled (I dont see anything indicating they were, but a helicopter video is hardly the whole story, so I'm not ruling out the possibility based only on the short clip we have).

If they were behaving like active shooters amidst all those cars then it would have been a lose lose situation with no good choices that I could think of.

If you bend over backwards any further to justify police firing indiscriminately into a crowded situation with a backdrop of bystanders, which resulted in the deaths of both the hostage and one of said bystanders, you're going to strain something and end up on paid leave with the shooters.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Dec 6, 2019

# ¿ Dec 6, 2019 10:53

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > GIP Police Thread: [Sound of children screaming removed]

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