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The Maltak plant creatures were introduced in the first place because Mookie went with orcs being a bunch of stock hunter culture stereotypes without realising how that doesn't mesh with being herbivorous. So the reason they have spears and archers is because they hunt plants.
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Jun 18, 2021 02:57
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I like that the ship thats making GBS threads them out even has a buttcrack
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Jun 18, 2021 03:04
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When I was younger I was raised to believe pescetarianism was a subset of vegetarianism, and from what I can tell this has roots mostly in historical and religious definitions of what is/isn't meat or what kinds of meat are acceptable. If that's the main influence here I can understand how Mookie might have come to not notice the questions a vegetarian society having a fishing industry might raise. (edit: The other option is, of course, that he wanted to include a cool image of fishers without thinking through that it implies they have a fishing industry, and all that implies) I can't remember if he ever explicitly said if orcs did have a reason for being vegetarian. (Something about their tusks being good for roots?) This might be one of the cases where it's better if he didn't overexplain it and just left it as "this is how orc culture has been for many many centuries and they've had no reason to change their diets". At least that would be easier to swallow than "they never ever want to harm animals" because that raises questions about why fish or sentient plants apparently don't count. Unless the whole point is that their definitions are arbitrary and hypocritical, and I doubt that was the intended message. edit 2: Okay yeah then I have no idea why fish don't count in this instance. Maybe it's special Maltak soil in the rivers, idfk MiracleFlare fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Jun 18, 2021 |
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Jun 18, 2021 03:09
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Any food that isnt the sentient plants makes them sick. So, no
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Jun 18, 2021 03:11
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They aren't vegetarians, they are herbivores. It's not an ethical question or a choice or a cultural issue, it's just their biology.
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Jun 18, 2021 03:12
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GlyphGryph posted:They aren't vegetarians, they are herbivores. Yeah, one of the comics that got posted a page or so ago spells it out. They cannot, biologically, process meat.
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Jun 18, 2021 03:13
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Are there any vegetarians in the comic? Does mookie even know "ethical frameworks around food consumption" are things that exist?
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Jun 18, 2021 03:16
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Ah, okay, I missed that and conflated the two, that's entirely my bad. Yeah then I've got nothing that could explain it. Half-expecting a hasty explanation that the fish are just decorations somewhere
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Jun 18, 2021 03:16
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GlyphGryph posted:They aren't vegetarians, they are herbivores.
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Jun 18, 2021 03:17
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Even a ton of actual herbivores in the real world will supplement their diet with meat--deer or cows just beebopping around eating baby birds and whatever. Orcs being herbivores seems like a real hard attempt at doing "no, see, they're a generic fantasy race... but I made them DIFFERENT from usual, so it's okay!" except no haha they just fight and kill and eat a plant boar instead of a meat boar it ranks around the level of "what if the elves... loved eating FLESH?" that everyone thought was really original a long time ago The Dominic Deegan original comic strip is honestly also just so bad I have not been able to keep up on the recap of it anymore. It isn't even... amusingly bad, to me? It's just boring. This is 16 year old copying popular anime they saw but it's their own OCs instead boring. Mookie why are you so BORING.
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Jun 18, 2021 03:19
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FlocksOfMice posted:it ranks around the level of "what if the elves... loved eating FLESH?" that everyone thought was really original a long time ago Yeah but that was great and memorable and had lots of fun consequences when it happened in Dwarf Fortress. It mattered in some fun ways.
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Jun 18, 2021 03:21
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FlocksOfMice posted:it ranks around the level of "what if the elves... loved eating FLESH?" that everyone thought was really original a long time ago Elder Scrolls did that the best.
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Jun 18, 2021 03:24
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super sweet best pal posted:Elder Scrolls did that the best. Elder Scrolls, Dwarf Fortress, Divinity, and lots of others but yeah Bosmer were kind of great and honestly the memory eating in Divinity was neat? Mookie has orcs that eat plants and that's it?? There's this lingering pressure when you do fantasy to use the DnD fantasy races as if they're... not the DnD fantasy races but just parts of the genre like spaceships existing? And everyone wants to do them UNIQUE and WEIRD... by changing one small thing. In these our modern times, Mookie has turned HIS orcs into... I dunno I guess they're vegetarians and otherwise are just humans basically. neat. thank you mookie, very exciting, they have ink witches and also their ink witches have maids who are also ink witches and they have weird dining etiquette i guess the worst is ink witchery could be something really neat but so far all she uses these neat, relatively original powers for is... her dress can disappear and show her boobs I guess and a spaceship? made of ink? that you steer by... drawing the scenery constantly? which is almost neat?? but he makes it stilted and boring??
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Jun 18, 2021 03:58
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FlocksOfMice posted:Even a ton of actual herbivores in the real world will supplement their diet with meat--deer or cows just beebopping around eating baby birds and whatever. Orcs being herbivores seems like a real hard attempt at doing "no, see, they're a generic fantasy race... but I made them DIFFERENT from usual, so it's okay!" Hold on for the next arc. The next arc is Snowsong. This arc is stupid relationship drama, but the next arc is still probably the dumbest narrative ever put to paper.
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Jun 18, 2021 04:44
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Beelzebufo posted:Hold on for the next arc.  Anyone who hasn't seen this has yet to understand Deegan.
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Jun 18, 2021 04:51
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I'm just confused about the one guy who says that orcs probably do actually eat meat because they have "fangs." They're clearly tusks and the first animals I think of when I think "tusks" are warthogs and elephants, both of which are herbivores. There's also walruses I guess, but they mostly eat clams and other shelled creatures. Anyway the point is I don't understand the need for "sentient vegetables creatures" because having tusks doesn't imply meat eating. If it were any other comic I'd assume we're supposed to view that guy as an idiot for thinking big tusks are the same as fangs and that they're used to hunt prey, but this is Mookie and I genuinely can't think of any other reason why he'd have sentient vegetable creatures except if he genuinely thinks that tusks are meant for eating meat. I know orcs are meant to be Native American stereotypes but even those stereotypes had stuff like "The Native Americans find nature sacred and so use every part of the buffalo to ensure nothing is wasted," like they aren't stereotyped as vegetarians" so I can't figure out why he'd be opposed to orcs hunting meat. Unless it's some sort of "But these orcs are so gentle and kind that they can't even hunt animals because they're so bleeding heart" but then having them hunt sentient plant creatures completely destroys that so that can't be it either! FlocksOfMice posted:In these our modern times, Mookie has turned HIS orcs into... I dunno I guess they're vegetarians and otherwise are just humans basically. neat. thank you mookie, very exciting, Dominic Deegan takes place in Generic D&D Land (yeah I know there's stuff like electric guitars and superhero comic books but other than that) and when Mookie was writing this orc stuff and the stuff before, D&D was still in third edition and still had orcs as "generally chaotic evil" with barbarian as their favored class and orc clerics only getting access to Chaos and Evil spell lists and such. So in the context of the time, orcs being "noble savages" who are in tune with nature and generally chill would have been somewhat different from how orcs were portrayed at the time. I know that Warcraft orcs were a peaceful shamanistic society before they got corrupted by chaos magic or whatever so it isn't a unique idea or anything, but I don't know how much Warcraft influenced Mookie, but D&D definitely heavily influenced him.
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Jun 18, 2021 05:08
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Twelve by Pies posted:Anyway the point is I don't understand the need for "sentient vegetables creatures" because having tusks doesn't imply meat eating. If it were any other comic I'd assume we're supposed to view that guy as an idiot for thinking big tusks are the same as fangs and that they're used to hunt prey, but this is Mookie and I genuinely can't think of any other reason why he'd have sentient vegetable creatures except if he genuinely thinks that tusks are meant for eating meat. Twelve by Pies posted:I know that Warcraft orcs were a peaceful shamanistic society before they got corrupted by chaos magic or whatever so it isn't a unique idea or anything, but I don't know how much Warcraft influenced Mookie, but D&D definitely heavily influenced him. Trapezium Dave fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Jun 18, 2021 |
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Jun 18, 2021 05:38
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Trapezium Dave posted:By this time Mookie is getting into MMORPGs (Snowsong, natch) and there are a bunch of characters which strongly feel like they are based on his avatars. I don't know this for certain but it seemed very suspicious that all the regular orcs have names like Amtrak or Moldak and then there's the really special ice magic wielding one named Stonewater. I think Nimmel was a character he made in City of Heroes.
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Jun 18, 2021 05:44
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 Again, it's almost impossible to believe he didn't trace this. Maybe it's a composite of several images, but there has to be some image that lines up pretty closely with the foreground. I hate how they become generic office block buldings in the distance.
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Jun 18, 2021 05:51
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Heliotrope posted:I think Nimmel was a character he made in City of Heroes. edit: I see he hasn't forgotten the fisher orcs, we're going to get an explanation of how it's totally vegan soon.
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Jun 18, 2021 05:51
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Heliotrope posted:I think Nimmel was a character he made in City of Heroes. That was Snowsong. Snowsong was his CoH character.
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Jun 18, 2021 06:10
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If the plant creatures are sentient that how is that functionally different from eating animals?Beelzebufo posted:
Also how the hell does match any of the exterior shots of this city so far? The long shot seemed to show a ton of tightly packed rounded buildings but this is enormously spaced out buildings with combovers
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Jun 18, 2021 06:18
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Bismuth posted:If the plant creatures are sentient that how is that functionally different from eating animals? It's such a mature and adult comic even these buildings (have) bangs
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Jun 18, 2021 06:19
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Beelzebufo posted:
Yeah, that’s definitely an exterior and an interior shot of the same place, sure, Mookie Also: sidewalks with streets, but all traffic is foot traffic, so I guess the streets are for the... slightly faster foot traffic of people who know where they’re going? Even though there’s absolutely no signage anywhere?
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Jun 18, 2021 06:22
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Trapezium Dave posted:The problem becomes more obvious during the slog through Maltak where Mookie introduces a whole bunch of single-trait orc tribes, such as the one that are the best archers in the world, where it doesn't make any sense if they don't use that skill to get food. Eh, archery is great for warfare, and from what I understand the Mongols were the best at mounted archery in history which is a big reason why they were so dominant in battles they fought, and you wouldn't hunt from horseback with a bow. Though that depends on Mookie establishing that the orcs frequently war with other tribes or other nations, which I'm going to guess he says they don't.
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Jun 18, 2021 06:40
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I like the tiny hungover orc in the bottom right.
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Jun 18, 2021 06:47
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And if everything's so spread out with large patches of green why do you need strict walls? Clearly the orcs have the "build in harmony with nature" trait usually given to elves and the like in fantasy worlds, they're performing responsible stewardship of the land. Granted we're mostly focusing on this because this is literally all that happened this week. Three pages of establishing shot.
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Jun 18, 2021 08:36
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Maxwell Lord posted:And if everything's so spread out with large patches of green why do you need strict walls? Clearly the orcs have the "build in harmony with nature" trait usually given to elves and the like in fantasy worlds, they're performing responsible stewardship of the land. This one page could have literally been used to some up the last 3-4 pages and nothing would be lost.
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Jun 18, 2021 10:52
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GlyphGryph posted:Are there any vegetarians in the comic? Does mookie even know "ethical frameworks around food consumption" are things that exist? Beelzebufo posted:Hold on for the next arc. Twelve by Pies posted:Anyway the point is I don't understand the need for "sentient vegetables creatures" because having tusks doesn't imply meat eating. If it were any other comic I'd assume we're supposed to view that guy as an idiot for thinking big tusks are the same as fangs and that they're used to hunt prey, but this is Mookie and I genuinely can't think of any other reason why he'd have sentient vegetable creatures except if he genuinely thinks that tusks are meant for eating meat. 1 Mookie wants to show his stock noble savage orcs as tough, ferocious warriors. 2 Mookie also wants them to never be portrayed as the aggressors in a conflict; just the victims of hate crimes from the racist humans 3 Mookie also does not want to show them feuding amongst themselves for status 4 Mookie has arbitrarily decided they are obligate herbivores though he calls them "vegetarians" half the time because he's too stupid to know what words mean How can he square this circle? Simply have the orcs hunt and kill animals that are made of plant matter. Done. quote:I know orcs are meant to be Native American stereotypes but even those stereotypes had stuff like "The Native Americans find nature sacred and so use every part of the buffalo to ensure nothing is wasted," like they aren't stereotyped as vegetarians" so I can't figure out why he'd be opposed to orcs hunting meat. Unless it's some sort of "But these orcs are so gentle and kind that they can't even hunt animals because they're so bleeding heart" but then having them hunt sentient plant creatures completely destroys that so that can't be it either! Beelzebufo posted:
Bismuth posted:If the plant creatures are sentient that how is that functionally different from eating animals? They don't. What's up with those giant lovely looking roofs the buildings in the foreground all have which predictably disappear halfway up the image? In a normal comic, I'd assume they signified something but I'm not holding my breath here.
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Jun 18, 2021 11:53
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I love snow song. I love that mookie envisioned that idea for a story arc for his fantasy comic and just went ahead and made it.
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Jun 18, 2021 12:04
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Eh I don't think he traced this one. If he had he might not have hosed up the perspective on the road and buildings.
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Jun 18, 2021 12:29
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I'm "excited" to see Snowsong because I've never seen it, only heard about it, as well as March Across Maltak which Beelzebufo says is unbelievably terrible as well. I've said I came in to the mock threads at Desert of Eldariat to Die but that can't be right because when I was checking something earlier I realized I remember reading the DOWN TOWN EROSSUS strips as well as the stupid art gallery/cattlebasters poo poo, so that must be where I came in (since I don't remember the stuff before the art gallery at all). I also forgot the "Cao's Cows" thing which, I'll give Mookie credit for, is a little bit funny for us long time Dynasty Warriors fans.
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Jun 18, 2021 12:34
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Twelve by Pies posted:I'm "excited" to see Snowsong because I've never seen it, only heard about it, as well as March Across Maltak which Beelzebufo says is unbelievably terrible as well. were you around for "clothes-minded"?
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Jun 18, 2021 12:43
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i don't remember most of dominic deegan despite reading it multiple times it makes every read through magical
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Jun 18, 2021 12:45
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Mach Against Maltak might not be the worst arc but it is the worst reading experience. Thinking about it makes my brain groan.
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Jun 18, 2021 13:57
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Ok I thought about it for five minutes and I think I came up with an improvement on the herbivore orcs thing. Have them eat meat, and even prefer it, but the animals of Maltak are the only ones they can digest. Orcs everywhere else are vegetarian by necessity, but it's a big reduction in their quality of life. Say it's an enzyme in Maltak plants which has to build up in animals, maybe it results in some minor external changes to them too. Orcs are not just spiritually but practically tied to their land, they can expand but they have to spend time cultivating their new home. There, it's not great but it's better than Mookie's giant shaky tower of excuses.
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Jun 18, 2021 14:49
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Once you get back to where the pedestrians are dots, that road is crazy enormous. Like ridiculous huge. Speaking of pedestrians, none of these people appear to actually be going anywhere, they're clearly just set dressing, like the random people you see in architecture design mock-ups. Plus, as someone already pointed out, why the hell are there sidewalks if there are no beasts of burden or wagons in the streets? (It's because modern cities have sidewalks of course.) Actually, it just occurred to me that, despite being a D&D pastiche fantasy world, I don't think we've ever seen a horse. The answer is obviously that drawing horses is hard and Mookie can't do it, but it's a really glaring omission now I think of it.
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Jun 18, 2021 15:21
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I had similar thoughts about Dark Souls a few years ago. As much as I hate DS2, there's quite a few really normal things that it has that the others never bother with, like horses (two-headed skeleton murder horses, but still), and boats. DS1 and 3 have plenty of carts around, but only DS2 has something to pull them.
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Jun 18, 2021 15:49
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Beelzebufo posted:
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Jun 18, 2021 16:38
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Mx. posted:i don't remember most of dominic deegan despite reading it multiple times Your brain is trying desperately to protect you from the psychic damage of reading it. Why do you hate your brain so much?
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