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Happy Landfill posted:Even after two pages of WORDS WORDS WORDS I couldn't even tell you what important discovery was made that's making him so happy.
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Jul 16, 2021 20:16
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Nooooo. Mid to late 2000 con culture is over! Glomping stays in the designated Glomp Circle* *at sakura con it does
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Jul 16, 2021 21:12
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Beelzebufo posted:Chapter 20: The Shadow of Siegfried - Part Two Going back to this for a bit, there's a few things I noticed: - Jayden was attracted to Siegfried because she thought she could "fix" him which is a toxic reason to go for someone. Flip their genders and it's pretty much Dominic and Luna's relationship at its core. - Nimmel is such a privileged white guy. He's super special for being the first ever Callanian to be a student in the werewolf country (which he probably only got because of his connection to the Deegans). The way he's JAQ-ing about the werewolves' culture and judging them, or being condescending by playing up Milov's accomplishments in his face, is pretty racist. - Mookie sure loves doing 'Person A says/does some completely abhorrent poo poo -> Person A apologizes for their "outburst" and gets immediately forgiven.' There are times where a thing a person says/does in the heat of the moment reflects on them as a person, and Milov immediately trying to murder Jayden or Katya going on a racist spiel speaks volumes. It's lovely how Mookie seriously downplays it as a loss of  .- Despite being a major focus of the arc, Jayden's arc is actually pretty unimportant in the grand scheme of things. The mystery of why Siggy went to hell and is haunting Milov now is the main driving point of this story. And Milov having to navigate werewolf politics in order to gain support to open up werewolfland to other countries sounds very important. But no, Mookie says this is gonna be about punishing Jayden for being a cheating whore.
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Jul 16, 2021 21:20
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I feel like if magic was "irrevocably altered" that all this stuff he's been reading about would be, like, common knowledge? Magic seemed very commonplace in the original comic - it's casually used for healing, small towns have seers that can look into the future, etc. If something was happened to irrevocably alter how this works, I feel like it would be similar to physics changing or something - it was cause massive societal shifts. I have to imagine every major government would have official seers to help steer how the country is led, wouldn't them suddenly being unable to see the future drastically alter the way political decisions are made? I feel like this would be a massive cultural shift, one that would be studied by historians for centuries. I can't imagine that the people who caused it wouldn't be well-known historical figures like Alexander the Great or Napoleon. If they went into hiding or explicitly tried to hide their names then I'd understand them being unknown, but they're published in this book and it seems like the author had no intentions of hiding it. Even if this book is rare, I can't imagine a historian wouldn't know about it, and thus the names (or at least Deegan's name) wouldn't be widespread. Now I'm imagining a version of this story where historians are trying to figure out the mystery of why magic got hosed up, while also dealing with the societal shifts caused by it. Instead we get this.
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Jul 16, 2021 21:31
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Genuinely, the worldbuilding is just awful. This society doesn't behave in a way that makes any sense. It's true that if a select group of people changed the way magic worked forever in such a magic-soaked world, it's something that nations across the world would be deeply concerned with. It's not as if this happened at the same time as an apocalyptic event that destroyed all records from the time surrounding it. Prento wrote a goddamn memoir about it, and given the situation, you'd think this info would be copied and dissected in hundreds of books. There are entire institutes meant to study magic in this world... how is this not on part with the stuff that NASA gets up to in terms of cultural relevance? Or even a world war given how much it would change things for everyone? People would be making studying this phenomenon their life's work. There is no reason for this information to be hard to come by short of some kind of elaborate conspiracy meant to hide it, which is what I assumed at the start of the story. But the fact that you can just find this poo poo in the library basically disproves that completely. Also, if Prento wrote this book about them changing magic, why didn't the book contain any info about why and how they did so? It's loving baffling. Like, remember this is a world that has comic books. Books are not a particularly limited resource. Really, the only thing that separates Deegan-verse from modern life is that the internet/TV doesn't exist.
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Jul 16, 2021 21:57
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The thing that annoys me the most is that Snout has apparently made some kind of discovery about the nature of the society, and his reaction isn't "huh, I wonder what this means, I'd better dig further," it's "OMG I'M SO HAPPY. HUGZ FOR EVERYONNNNNE!!!! ^( 'O' )^" Once again I think it's a matter of Mookie not separating his characters from himself. The things Snout just read have a great impact on someone who knows and is invested in the entire story of the original webcomic, and is a "happy feelz" moment for Mookie and any still existing fans. It should mean NOTHING to Snout, who doesn't know any of these characters and little of the context, and ESPECIALLY has no reason to yet be emotionally invested in it. So yeah. I guess he's a "big time hugger now". That's literally all there is to take from this, apparently.
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Jul 16, 2021 22:12
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Meesa big time hugger!
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Jul 16, 2021 22:25
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God this is pathetic. The comic has been going on for a year and a half and the only thing we know about the main character is that he's a sweet soft boy who loves cuddling and hugging. And also he's curious, but not that curious.
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Jul 16, 2021 22:40
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We also know he cares about his friends, but not enough to actually try to check on them or help them.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:02
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TheHan posted:
They're slowly evolving into these guys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIv3ySLPsQU A few more months and the strip will be nothing but long torsos and text.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:11
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CodfishCartographer posted:I feel like if magic was "irrevocably altered" that all this stuff he's been reading about would be, like, common knowledge? Magic seemed very commonplace in the original comic - it's casually used for healing, small towns have seers that can look into the future, etc. If something was happened to irrevocably alter how this works, I feel like it would be similar to physics changing or something - it was cause massive societal shifts. I have to imagine every major government would have official seers to help steer how the country is led, wouldn't them suddenly being unable to see the future drastically alter the way political decisions are made? Much like the "the first vision the various races got all happened at the same time" thing from OG Deegan, magic being irrevocably altered is a cool worldbuilding idea that Mookie will never explore. Which types of magic would constitute as "hard" anyway? What are the odds Dominic's the one who decided which magic needs to be changed or not? Did they even get permission from all the races in Deeganland to do this? How was hell affected by this? No matter how you slice it, it's incredibly arrogant to just go ahead and gently caress up magic for everyone. And like you said, something of this scale should cause a massive shift in society, especially with how magic is such an integral part in Deeganland. Jobs and even cultures would be affected. People rely on magic to deal with monsters or demons, so there must've been tons people on the road who died because they could no longer defend themselves. Spellwolves are dangerous so they might be considered a "hard" magic. There must've been mass panic over being unable to transform. What you said about how the people who changed magic shouldn't be unknowns is true. By all rights, Dominic and his students should be the bad guys in history books.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:16
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Hell, all of that could have happened, and the book Snout’s reading was Prento’s attempt to try to pull an in-universe retcon to cover up that they legitimately screwed up, but didn’t want to own up to it… without realizing that that makes them look even worse.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:30
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Deeganland was so dependent on magic for their healthcare that Pam had only just invented anesthetic. Everything from surgery to haircuts were done through magic and these 8 dickheads shut it off overnight. Did irrevocably changing magic only affect visions and laserblasts or were there mass graves in the transition from a magic based society. This story could be interesting if Mookie were interested in telling it.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:33
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Just a reminder, the new magic can still make spacecraft.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:40
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Mors Rattus posted:Just a reminder, the new magic can still make spacecraft. Don't forget, Mookie already forgot
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Jul 16, 2021 23:50
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Spacecraft that can blow up a house with a tractor beam Although I'm sure that's because of WiLd EdGe or some poo poo
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Jul 17, 2021 00:10
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Remind me, didn't Nimmel end up hooking up with Katya? As a designated Quasi-Deegan it was his right to magnanimously heal broken women with his Nice Guyness or something.
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Jul 17, 2021 00:17
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TheHan posted:Deeganland was so dependent on magic for their healthcare that Pam had only just invented anesthetic. Everything from surgery to haircuts were done through magic and these 8 dickheads shut it off overnight. Did irrevocably changing magic only affect visions and laserblasts or were there mass graves in the transition from a magic based society. Yeah, you could even have it so Dominic thought alteration magic needed to be shut down but didn't think poo poo through and fucks up big time. Maybe the fabric of the universe considered white magic a part of alteration so suddenly everyone loses out on healing. Or how spellwolves shapeshifting is also a form of alteration so Dominic just destroyed his friend's entire culture. Hell, this poo poo writes itself for Ink Witch. Have her turn out to be a Deegan whose life mission is to find out about what Dominic did so she can unfuck it. Maybe the reason she goes by Ink Witch is because she doesn't want people to know she came from the family that ruined magic. There's lots of interesting ways you can spin that plot thread, but instead we're gonna get more orc history.
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Jul 17, 2021 00:24
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I thought spellwolves were a specific, special type of werewolf? Whatshisname the Girlfriend Murderer was a Spellwolf, while the other people around were just werewolves?
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Jul 17, 2021 00:42
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Captain Oblivious posted:Remind me, didn't Nimmel end up hooking up with Katya? As a designated Quasi-Deegan it was his right to magnanimously heal broken women with his Nice Guyness or something. Yes, his whole college arc is situated around her and the way THE JOCKS treat her. Famously, Nimmel will declare that the reason he came to that island full of "emotion craze beast people" is because his winter based spells made it so he could dominate them. This will cause her to swoon, as it should.
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Jul 17, 2021 00:46
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I seriously can't get over how bad his proportions are. Here's the Loomis method, which a ton of people probably study for help in learning to draw. Even as a kid I knew about how many heads tall someone should be. It's basic stuff to drawing figures. Generally when you draw, you draw someone between 7-8 heads tall.  Mookie not only draws his figures between 6-7 heads tall, which leads to all sorts of hosed up proportions and inconsistency.  Mr. Bad Guy on the left has his elbows up to where his nipples are and his hands to where his belly button should be. The figure might look all right if he made his arms the right size, but he's still going to look a little off because he's missing a whole head, so his organs and limbs are all squished together. Snout is a little over six heads tall, but 4 heads of those are his body. His legs are about 2 heads. Legs should be about the same number of heads as the body. So the body is fine, so long as he was drawing the figure to be 7 1/2 or 8 heads. But as it is now, he's got short stubby little legs. I mean, I'm no expert and drawing and it's only a hobby of mine that I've recently gotten more serious about. But this is poo poo that any sort of professional artist should know. These are mistakes that someone who has been drawing for a short time makes, not someone who's been drawing for what, almost 20 years?
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Jul 17, 2021 01:46
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You don't even need to study it that hard to get something approximately correct. I remember when I was an art baby, I drastically improved my proportions just by remembering that the legs are almost exactly half of someone's height, so I would draw a line, mark the middle with a dot and that's where the legs begin (and also where the wrists would be if the arms are hanging straight down). The rest of the proportions come pretty naturally after that, especially if you further divide the upper line into 4/3.5 to give you your head size. It's a very simple thing that helps a lot. Of course, studying something like the Loomis method doesn't even take that much more work, and is easy to ingrain into your memory.
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Jul 17, 2021 02:05
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Yeah I don't think Mookie has ever done any learning or practicing of art in his life. Everything we're seeing are his first attempts with no knowledge at all of art techniques. It's especially obvious with his excitement about the spray tool, something no artist would use that prominently in their art outside of 1990s ms paint drawings. That said, he's always talking about how much work he puts in. Honestly, I'm inclined to believe him - it's possible he's not lazy about that. But I think he's intellectually lazy - he assumes the way he's doing it is the best way, even if it takes him way, way longer to do, with much worse results, than if he actually put in the time to improve. With that attitude it's not surprising Garth finally bailed on him with Star Power. It must have been infuriating to work with someone so stubbornly stuck in their bad methods.
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Jul 17, 2021 02:24
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Similarly, I don't think Mookie is bored with Snout. Quite the opposite, I think he's getting emotional catharsis out of this soft boy and the world that bends and dotes around him, sort of like watching insipidly cute animal videos on facebook. He just doesn'\t understand how the story reads to someone without a deep emotional investment in the character.
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Jul 17, 2021 02:32
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Mookie's art comes off to me like someone who enjoys drawing and has done it most of his life, but makes zero effort to actually learn how to improve. Sometimes they improve by accident through sheer repetition and his own observations, but I doubt he really takes the time to seek out information on how to improve his art and technique. It's almost impressive how similar his art looks in recent comics compared to what he was drawing almost twenty years ago. He kind of comes off like a teenager in high school drawing for fun, who then takes an art class and gets mad that the teacher doesn't take anime style seriously, and so vows to improve on their own without some snubby teacher!! Actually maybe that's how he started off.
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Jul 17, 2021 02:35
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Yeah, exactly. Like take this example I made: Vanishing points are some real basic poo poo. Even little kids understand them, that's, like, the first thing you learn in "how to draw" books.
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Jul 17, 2021 02:53
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Mookie is very much an "It's my style" kind of guy. I can kind of understand the lack of desire to improve though. If this is just something he does for fun, learning how to get better and putting forth effort to improve is work. He might have the mindset that doing that, and turning it into work, would make it less fun. He probably sees his comics as a hobby and not a career and doesn't feel the desire or drive to get better like actual creators do, and I won't judge him for that honestly. There's a lot of poo poo I do as a hobby that I don't really feel the need to study in depth or get better at because I just don't have a passion for it. The difference is that it does seem like Mookie does want to be viewed by other people as a writer/artist while also being only slightly above average in competency in those areas, and not really having the passion to get to the level of people that are classified that way. It'd kind of be like me wanting other people to see me as a car mechanic just because I can change a battery or replace a belt. It's more ability than some people have even if it isn't really enough, and I don't give enough of a poo poo about cars to learn more about them, but dammit why don't people take me seriously as a mechanic?
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Jul 17, 2021 03:07
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He's never mentioned another job aside from the burlesque announcing thing, and he's hustled the con circuit for years. I'm pretty sure being a writer and artist is his intended career.
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Jul 17, 2021 03:32
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Zereth posted:I thought spellwolves were a specific, special type of werewolf? Whatshisname the Girlfriend Murderer was a Spellwolf, while the other people around were just werewolves? Honestly, I forgot the details. But if they're shapeshifting then it sounds like a form of magic, so it's easy to imagine it getting screwed over by Dominic's magic fuckery.
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Jul 17, 2021 09:35
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Yeah, exactly. Like take this example I made: I know they're basic, but lots of people gently caress them up, don't they? I remember Hitler's paintings being posted in one of the old CAD threads and his vanishing points being a loving mess, too. And that said, the general technical competence on display in Hitler's work was still definitely, while amateurish by professional standards, definitely better than Mookie's art and better than anything I could ever do or, I imagine, many people who have never really done too much work drawing. Or even some who have. I mean, yeah, feels a bit weird using Hitler as a point of comparison for this, and I'm not trying to make a point by using him. Just legit Hitler's the only 'artist' that comes to mind where I know I've seen their art and they both had hosed up vanishing points and yet still had a level of mechanical skill I thought, as a layman, was kind of impressive.
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Jul 17, 2021 10:53
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Jesus. Buckley sucks but it's a bit over the top to call him Hitler.
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Jul 17, 2021 11:12
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Ague Proof posted:Jesus. Buckley sucks but it's a bit over the top to call him Hitler. There's a Hitler analogy for every situation and argument. Vegan, vegetarian or meat-eater? Hitler analogy. Like or dislike cats and dogs? Hitler analogy. For or against Lebensraum? Hitler analogy.
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Jul 17, 2021 11:18
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Weird as it is to say, Buckley has genuinely improved as both an artist and a storyteller. Edit: He still relies too heavily on monkeycheese bullshit for his humor, but he's long past the point of copy-pasting faces onto his characters. I found out through another thread (I forget which one) that he recently did an arc about the robot coming to grips with their identity. I also gather some sort of soft-reboot happened at some point, so this isn't entirely the same set of characters it was back in the early 00s.  This arc concludes that Z.K. gets to decide their own identity, and no one else has the right to force one on them. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Jul 17, 2021 |
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Jul 17, 2021 12:25
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Dunno if saying "Buckley is literally Hitler" was intended here, but for sure Hitler's painting are a famous case of looking fine to a layman but apparently being garbage according to Actual Artists who know their poo poo
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Jul 17, 2021 12:41
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PoptartsNinja posted:Weird as it is to say, Buckley has genuinely improved as both an artist and a storyteller. I couldn't not read that robot's dialogue in the voice of Clank. Take whatever you like from that.
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Jul 17, 2021 13:06
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GrossMurpel posted:Dunno if saying "Buckley is literally Hitler" was intended here, but for sure Hitler's painting are a famous case of looking fine to a layman but apparently being garbage according to Actual Artists who know their poo poo Yeah, no. Like I said, I absolutely have no intention of comparing anyone to Hitler except in artistic terms. My point was that Hitler's paintings had lots of amateurish mistakes but looked fine to laymen, while Mookie's art doesn't look fine to a layman.
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Jul 17, 2021 13:47
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I have terrible news: Hitler wrote Achewood
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Jul 17, 2021 15:11
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Codependent Poster posted:I seriously can't get over how bad his proportions are. It's not only the proportions though; because of Terracianno's trouble with anatomy, and with how clothing drapes over anatomy, Snout is drawn with two butts. He has a smaller, secondary butt under his larger 'main' butt, which adds onto the bizarrely extended torso.  He's a very quick fix where the extra flesh is removed. It's cartoony proportions, but way more recognizably human.
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Jul 17, 2021 17:40
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long bod is long
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Jul 17, 2021 17:49
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Pretty sure I've posted this before but Mookie gets to reuse content anyway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk0i0yTPJBY
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Jul 18, 2021 06:37
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