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Bismuth
Jun 10, 2010

the belly button hungers

Hell Gem

so did she have to suck him under water with tentacles for 30 seconds *after* luna's name appeared to do that, or was that just for fun?

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super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009



Bismuth posted:

so did she have to suck him under water with tentacles for 30 seconds *after* luna's name appeared to do that, or was that just for fun?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGXaLHBdyH0

Lunatic Sledge
Jun 8, 2013

choose your own horror isekai sci-fi Souls-like urban fantasy gamer simulator adventure

or don't?


getting smothered by water is called drowning

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




If she turns out to be a villain it's nto even gonna be her, it's gonna turn out to be Redactor in disguise trying to break the party up (because she's evil (because mookie cannot abide having a morally grey antagonist)).

Samovar
Jun 4, 2011

I'm not a hero...





What the gently caress is even happening, Jesus loving Christ.

Pyrotoad
Oct 24, 2010




Illegal Hen

It's setting up a 'Look how kind Snout is!' moment. Y'know, that trait he's going to be remembered for over anything else.

Alternatively Mookie's gonna have Snout actually ditch them for a few weeks of him silently wandering various landscapes looking sad.

RoboChrist 9000
Dec 14, 2006

mater dolorosa

Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is a deeply flawed movie for a number of reasons. One of the reasons that stands out most to me, however, is that the film completely lacks any sort of stakes in its central conflict. The powers of the titular skulls are never really fully expounded on, and likewise it is never really made completely clear what the Soviets plan to do with them, or why the Soviets enacting their plan would be a bad thing; particularly given how the film opens by neutering Irina as a threat and proceeds to show how bad and awful McCarthyist America is. We have no reason to fear the Russians, and many reasons to dislike the Americans. This is in stark contrast to the earlier films where the stakes and villains are all clearly defined. We are told in no uncertain terms that an army marching with the Ark of the Covenant will be unbeatable, and even though it's not like Nazis need further villification, Raiders goes out of its way to show us what a real piece of poo poo Toht is. Similarly, Last Crusade tells us what the power of the Grail is, and what the Nazis intend to do with it - make Hitler immortal. I can't quite recall if the exact power of the Shakti Stones in 2 is ever spelled out, but Mola Ram is a threat and a piece of poo poo, unlike Irina, so it's implicit to the audience that him gaining more magical power would be a very bad thing.

What are the stakes here? A story doesn't need a villain, but it needs stakes. I'd almost argue stakes are kind of what defines a story as a story. If Snout succceds, his curiosity is sated, if Snout fails, his curiosity is not sated. Is that it? Is Snout's curiosity - an informed attribute at best - the sole stake at play in this story? There was some nonsense around the Redactor, but so what? What happens if the knowledge of Dominic Deegan's Legacy - whatever that is - is suppressed? The world seems to be doing just fine without this knowledge being commonly available, and as a lover of learning I find the idea of knowledge being lost forever pretty sad, but I mean it's hardly that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.
Snout's curiosity is never displayed and Snout is not a character. 'Snout doesn't find the answer to a question he was curious about.' is not a stake. Maybe that could work in a better story with a well-developed protagonist who we care about (and most likely where the question and the search for an answer to it is a metaphor for some deeper character issue) but that is not the case. Who loving cares if Snout gets his answer?

Say what you will about Dominic Deegan, but it at least had stakes. They were a bit poorly defined since King Dave was hardly all that bad compared to Mookie Prime, but still.
It's loving incredible how badly Mookie has regressed as both a writer and an artist.

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!

Oh, oh, so let me get this straight, the whole point of the last two weeks was to tell Snout exactly what this page spells out? Oh ok. Cool. Cool.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




He probably saw other low stakes stories that were fun and cool and interesting and thought he could pull one of those off, not realising that none of the elements he's building the low stakes story around aren't interesting enough to sustain it.

We do have one (1) high stake right now, which is that Kaianda's necromantic nature maybe might possibly be a threat to the entirety of Maltak but that's about it and none of the characters seem particularly concerned by it.

Ron Paul Atreides
Apr 19, 2012

Uyghurs situation in Xinjiang? Just a police action, do not fret. Not ongoing genocide like in EVIL Canada.

I am definitely not a tankie.


do you think he does read the mock threads around and tries to answer criticism with absurd reversals like this because he doesn't get why his absurd little sexless polycule of gas lighters and codependent sub-Chidi softbois is bad?

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012


Bismuth posted:

so did she have to suck him under water with tentacles for 30 seconds *after* luna's name appeared to do that, or was that just for fun?

She had to do that to tap into the hive Mookie and catch herself up on what Mookie thinks the plot is.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002



After seeing the way he responded to that one rather mild bit of criticism on Twitter, I have to think there's absolutely no way he's reading these.

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!

If he was reading this thread there'd likely be dozensĖmaybe even hundredsĖof antagonists following Snout, always telling him he sucks rear end and that his mission is a pointless waste of time. Then Snout would writhe on the ground like the spineless little worm of a baby man that he is before a big powerful mommy with two heads and 8 breasts came to vanquish the Havters. This would happen five or six times a month.

I'm just spitballing though.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009



Mookiechu vs. the Private Villa of Corrupted Citizens

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008



Buglord

Why is being held back even a concern? What is the urgency? There is literally nothing at stake here.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002



And even then I reject the idea he's being held back. The only one that conceivably is doing that is Corpsemom (and even then her sudden crisis of identify seems rather out of place after the naming thing). How the gently caress is Ink Witch holding him back? She has a personal jet. In a fantasy world.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003




Rotten Red Rod posted:

Corpsemom (and even then her sudden crisis of identify
When was this?

Cloacamazing!
Apr 18, 2018


She is looking at the water with a sad face, I'm guessing that's the crisis? There was this thing where her reflection went all blurry/disappeared/whatever.

GreenMetalSun
Oct 11, 2012


Cloacamazing! posted:

She is looking at the water with a sad face, I'm guessing that's the crisis? There was this thing where her reflection went all blurry/disappeared/whatever.

Iím convinced that Mookie is just bad conveying whatís happened, and I think she was just stunned/surprised to see her own face for the first time.

Though itís kinda weird that they didnít have any mirrors in the bathrooms of Arduakís relatively modern house.

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009



It seems like this is supposed to make him choose between his two alleged traits - Curiosity and Kindness. In standard storytelling, Snout's curiosity would be his "want" - his motivation to drive the plot forward but doesn't fulfill him internally, while his kindness would be his "need" - the thing he has to deal with in order to overcome his internal struggle and become a better person.

He started the comic alone and unable to communicate with other people, so in a normal story all the people he's met would become a family that supports him, and people that he would risk himself to save after a lifetime of (presumably voluntary) isolation.

In a normal story, it would be fine for him to choose his want over his need - going off alone should present him with challenges that he can't overcome without the others, and make it clear that he can't achieve his Want without also achieving his Need. It would even be fine for him to be selfish and not care about the others up until this point, because that would be a character flaw he needs to overcome.

But his constant complaining about not being the center of attention and his sheer determination to not engage with the world and people around him aren't treated as a flaw. It's no secret that Dominic Deegan is based on Mookie's D&D character, but Snout is like the character the DM's friend made who doesn't play D&D and refuses to engage with the game, but is somehow still the de facto protagonist because the DM likes him.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002



Cloacamazing! posted:

She is looking at the water with a sad face, I'm guessing that's the crisis? There was this thing where her reflection went all blurry/disappeared/whatever.

Yeah this

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!

We still don't know what she was trying to say with that. With this latest page it's pretty clear she was only going around the group saying lovely things just to set up this conversation with Snout where she tries to argue they're holding him back. Everyone was doing fine and bending over backwards to advance Snout's journey while Snout meanders off to read about the next bit of useless bullshit at the drop of a hat. This is someone Arudak knew and thought would help with the journey, Snout would still be wandering around the Wild Edge with no direction if he wasn't literally shipped to Maltak.

Even die-hard Dominic Deegans aren't this stupid, nobody's gonna buy this.

Douche Wolf 89
Dec 9, 2010



Didn't arudak and mommy just hug it out and isn't deadmommy really happy right now because she has a name and a broken-armed mongrelfolk to gently caress? Why are they all crying on the river bank lmao

This loving comic y'all. Usually someone getting paid for their art is something to be jealous of; if he had improved or at lease developed a style, we'd be (even more of) the losers here. Luckily he chrystalized in grade 10 and has slowly gotten worse, where I wouldn't want to make money producing what he produces.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002



Douche Wolf 89 posted:

Didn't arudak and mommy just hug it out and isn't deadmommy really happy right now because she has a name and a broken-armed mongrelfolk to gently caress? Why are they all crying on the river bank lmao

Because the story suddenly requires them to be sad so that this person can say that they're holding Snout back, so they're gonna be real sad until the story doesn't need it (probably in like 2 pages when something swoops in and magically fixes their problems).

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003




Cloacamazing! posted:

She is looking at the water with a sad face, I'm guessing that's the crisis? There was this thing where her reflection went all blurry/disappeared/whatever.
Until Snout recaps everything, all we know is that she was looking in the water, then somebody, probably the chandak, tapped the water to disrupt her reflection.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story


We know seaweed orc has told Arudak "Your girlfriend loved someone else" and is now telling Snout "These people are holding you back." It's very likely that she told corpselady something like "You don't actually have a soul and can never be a real person," or like "You will destroy Maltak because you're an abomination against god," keeping in line with the theory that she is a villain who's trying to stop them.

maltesh
May 20, 2004

Uncle Ben: Still Dead.


"You're only getting away with the 'Ink Witches don't give out their names' thing because everyone else here has met a maximum of two Ink Witches, Stephanie."

Invisible Clergy
Sep 25, 2015

"Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces"

Malachi 2:3


Codependent Poster posted:

Why does he need to find Luna? Or Dominic? If everyone has written books about him and they know what he did, what the hell is he looking for?

This is the premise of the whole comic and its not even clear what the gently caress he needs or is trying to do.

Luna Deegan has been dead for 150+ years. It must be a fakeout of some kind or as mentioned earlier, Luna is Earth's moon. I think Dominic is also supposed to have died of old age. If he still exists in the physical world, Mookie would've found a way to introduc him by now so the comic can be about him.

Twelve by Pies posted:

I was going to say this is some sort of test of character or whatever and Snout has to boldly proclaim "NO THEY ARE MY FRIENDS" and then she says "You pass the test and are ready to find the Legacy" but yeah I think everyone else is right, she's secretly a villain and is lying to them to stop their noble quests.

Their quest to do what? For a villain to want to gum the gears of the hero, there has to be like, some good thing the villain gains from them not doing the thing, or some bad thing that would happen to them if they did do the thing. I don't think that exists here.

Ron Paul Atreides posted:

do you think he does read the mock threads around and tries to answer criticism with absurd reversals like this because he doesn't get why his absurd little sexless polycule of gas lighters and codependent sub-Chidi softbois is bad?

Absolutely not. He is completely allergic to any kind of criticism, so it's impossible he'd seek it out. If he did see it, he'd subtweet about it, like that one time someone was less then rear end-kissing on his page.

Rotten Red Rod posted:

After seeing the way he responded to that one rather mild bit of criticism on Twitter, I have to think there's absolutely no way he's reading these.

Yeah.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story


Invisible Clergy posted:

Their quest to do what? For a villain to want to gum the gears of the hero, there has to be like, some good thing the villain gains from them not doing the thing, or some bad thing that would happen to them if they did do the thing. I don't think that exists here.

Well Arudak is on a quest to use the Dream Realm to time travel to the past and stop his girlfriend from dying. Vine lady...uhhhh...hmm. And Snout...errrr...huh. And the Ink Witch...well...ummmmm...

Okay so Arudak is the only one who's actually interested in doing a thing. As for why she would want to stop him, hell if I know. Maybe she's a previous lover who got mad she dumped him and just wants to see him sad and miserable.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003




Wait when Wait, he wants to use the dream realm to time travel? When did we learn that? I thought he just wanted to use it in some unspecified manner to get his girlfriend back, and other than him wanting to do that we had no evidence it'd even help there.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story


Things we know, mostly from this comic:

1) Arudak's girlfriend died during some battle.

2) Arudak believes Asinotaph is the key to saving her.

3) Asinotaph is the realm of dreams.

His girlfriend is dead, so the only way to save her would be to travel back in time and prevent her from dying. If Asinotaph is the key to saving her, the only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that dreams somehow allow you to time travel.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003




Or he could resurrect her in some way.

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009



The whole thing started out with Snout looking into lucid dreaming, and there were books talking about structure and order in dreams, so maybe Arudak's trying to pull his dead girlfriend out of his dreams somehow.

Though I don't know why her loving someone else would affect that, since presumably it would be a version of her that he created himself.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002



Twelve by Pies posted:

His girlfriend is dead, so the only way to save her would be to travel back in time and prevent her from dying. If Asinotaph is the key to saving her, the only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that dreams somehow allow you to time travel.

Don't try to logic out what Mookie intends. It's always going to be much stupider than you expect, or straight up abandoned when he felt he wrote himself into a corner.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story


Zereth posted:

Or he could resurrect her in some way.

Sure, but the word "saving" implies he wants to somehow undo the death, if it was just straight bringing her back to life he'd probably say "bring her back."

Rotten Red Rod posted:

Don't try to logic out what Mookie intends. It's always going to be much stupider than you expect, or straight up abandoned when he felt he wrote himself into a corner.

Oh I know it's going to be much stupider than that, and I'm excited to see how much stupider. Besides as I said before when this plot point was revealed, "Going into a dream to travel back in time" is basically the exact plot of the movie Somewhere In Time. And then Christopher Reeve sees a penny with the year he's from on it and it flings him back to the present.

Bismuth
Jun 10, 2010

the belly button hungers

Hell Gem

These people are holding you back from your mighty quest of uh...finding the library book you're after...

super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009



She's technically correct but they're also his ride.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




Rotten Red Rod posted:

Because the story suddenly requires them to be sad so that this person can say that they're holding Snout back, so they're gonna be real sad until the story doesn't need it (probably in like 2 pages when something swoops in and magically fixes their problems).

I say it's a 50/50 chance between mookie writing Snout consistently and having him gently caress off to mope silently at boring landscapes for a week before he decides to be a goodboy and mookie writing mookie consistently and showing off what a good guy he is by immediately deciding to be a goodboy.

MuddyFunster
Jan 31, 2020


The latter, please god, the latter.

I don't know if I can take another interminable navel gaze.

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Cloacamazing!
Apr 18, 2018


It'll be several weeks of diary entries, because Snout can't think unless he writes words down.

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