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Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

I was rolling my eyes at the jokes people were making about Orklings being a servant race, but it's starting to look like they are just little Dobbies, aren't they?

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Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Mookie really needs to buy one of those wooden artist mannequins, or even one of the 18" Spiderman figures that a lot of comic artists use for anatomy reference. And then he needs to practice drawing it and other life drawings. And then practice that again. And again. And again. And again.

Instead, we're either seeing his direct traces, or freehand first attempts.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Dalris Othaine posted:

I suddenly need to know more about this.

I mean that's pretty much it. It's a very posable spiderman figurine that got really popular a few years ago with comic artists and animators because it works better than the wooden mannequins for their purposes. I don't know if that exact model is still made, but you can find them on eBay and such.

I think it's this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/SpiderMan-...4.m46890.l49286

Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Jun 26, 2021

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Hell, same

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

It's all going accord to kesma*.

*Kesma means city!

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Beelzebufo posted:

So yes, Greg's big idea is to set himself up as a Clark Kent/Peter Parker altar ego to his magic self. I mean this right down to being a reporter. To anyone who hasn't experienced all of this arc yet, you can see why people started to get annoyed. The degree to which Mookie was telegraphing his intentions, and the stupid contrivances he was introducing to get the plot to twist in that direction, were really out of place in the setting.

Yeah, I've been looking through the Keenspot forums from around this time, and you're not kidding. That said, it's mostly just a few scattered dissenters who pop up and are told by most to calm down.

Until July 18, 2007. Then everyone's mad.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002


Nah, that was a while ago. July 18 is the premier of Supergreg.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Yeah if he leaned lightly into the superhero thing it might be ok. Like superheroes heavily through a fantasy lens with some wink and nudge references.

He... Does not do that.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Yeah, the Keenspot forums are pretty amazing. The transition from "a few scattered dissenters" to "everyone here is hatereading" seems to fully happen by 2008. All their complaints are jarringly similar to ours, too.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

SubG posted:

Like for awhile I thought the gimmick was supposed to be that it (and the rest of her outfit) was a magical construct of ink and therefore in constant flux--which could be a cool gimmick...Mookie could have a character emoting with their outfit, kinda like Roberta Gregory's Midge emoting with her boobs--instead of just a physical article whose exact dimensions and properties remain a mystery to the artist:

It WAS - the early concept sketches of her (which were all VERY horny) showed her as essentially an ink Bayonetta with, and I quote Mookie, "an aversion to clothes". Clearly he changed his mind, probably midway through the first arc, before Snout finally met her in person.

I think now they're just clothes, unless he's saving that up for some big reveal... But knowing Mookie, he can't help revealing a plot element the very week he thinks it up, so I doubt it.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Ah, yes, wearing a different shirt and trying different foods, the hallmarks of a true noncomformist

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

At least the poem isn't as cringey as the 2nd Star Power holiday special.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Zerilan posted:

Nothing beats him actually trying to write out the songs for the in-universe greatest composer.
Oh god yes, that was awful too. I still think the holiday special was worse, though.

Codependent Poster posted:

Why does everyone want to gently caress Snout?
Seriously, most of this comic seems to be people being nice to Snout. I wonder if he'll ever have to put in effort to do anything again?

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

This poem made me more aware that Snout has an obsession with consuming the written word, but not with actually creating anything besides his lame journal. When this comic started, I expected it to be about Dominic's legacy (whatever that means) being rediscovered, and Snout would be the scribe and evangelist for it... But it's nothing of the kind. He's just looking for the book(s) that have all the information he needs, and the only issue seems to be that those books are hard to find, possibly being horded by Bad Ink Witch.

Intentional or not, so far, it's a story about a consumer, not a creator. Which is... Not very compelling.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002


7/18/07 Are you loving kidding me??

by NevrMore on Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:14 pm posted:


Please for the love of Christ tell me that either Gregory is imagining this or that I am imagining it from a coma-inducing industrial-adhesive accident.

by Warde on Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:19 pm posted:


(This topic was here first...)

Yup, I think that's it for me. I think this is the point where I stop reading.

by Taylon on Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:28 pm posted:


...have to be making GBS threads me. Or well, at least in my general direction. What is this...thing?

by Necris Omega on Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:29 pm posted:


o.O

...And then all creation collapsed into itself, and existence ceased to be. All that is unmade itself, and history was null and void. The past imploded with unimaginable fury, and the future simply faded away. Nothingness reigned on high, and even silence was too loud a sound to sing of its rule.

by legendary on Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:31 pm posted:


And this shall be remembered as the exact moment that Mookie became the most [redacted] man on the Internet.

by Helleshin on Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:34 pm posted:


I've been clinging to a shred of hope here, but seriously folks,
someone take this comic out back and shoot it.
The fascinating thing is, I'll still keep reading, just in case a miracle occurs.

by Janika on Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:46 pm posted:


legendary wrote:
And this shall be remembered as the exact moment that Mookie became the most [redacted] man on the Internet.

Or the moment that DD jumped the shark. Either works.

But god...all I could do at the sight of Super Gregory was facepalm. What the hell, man, what the hell. Just no. I mean, no, you can't expect reality from a webcomic, but...jesus. This is fail. And I don't normally feel that way about this comic either.

by Silvsilvchan on Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:47 pm posted:


madjo80 wrote:
It's a freaking comic! What did you expect? Reality? We have enough of that already.

This is really the most spiteful FAN forum I've ever had the displeasure to visit.



You forgot the quotation marks around 'fan'.

Because you know, not every one that posts on a forum is a fan.

For me, this has been a long time coming. I even distanced myself from the community for a while because when the comic first started to bug me every one else still liked it.

I will probably keep reading. I have been since the first thing he did slapped me upside the noggin. A comic that updates every day is something very rare and gem like regardless of quality.

This just means I will never ever ever take the comic seriously again.

by NevrMore on Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:48 pm posted:


madjo80 wrote:
It's a freaking comic! What did you expect? Reality? We have enough of that already.


We really have to go through this again?

We aren't expecting reality. We are expecting internal consistency. Gregory transforming into a loving superhero, especially in a medieval time period when the word superhero did not even exist, is not logical or even entertaining. Willing suspension of disbelief has been jumped, dragged into a back alley, raped, murdered, and thrown in the nearest river.

This is really the most spiteful FAN forum I've ever had the displeasure to visit.

You're silly.

by Taylon on Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:52 pm posted:

You know, for the longest time I was supporting the comic. I still do. I've met Mookie in person on numerous occasions at Conventions, as some people here might have as well. Had a nice twenty minute discussion and what not almost every time. Also expressing how much I do enjoy reading the comic and his works. But...


Seriously, what the gently caress?

by Merry on Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:59 pm posted:


Gone are the days, when a good idea or a well placed lowlevel spell saved the day.

Ultimate firepower all the way, it seems. How boring. I dont feel like defending the comic today, no.

by NW on Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:02 am posted:


why did gregory turn into captain planet with a cape?

why?

I know that Snowsong is a reference to a City of Heroes character but can't the heroes solve anything without having to go SSJ5000?

by Thy Brilliance on Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:03 am posted:


This is hands down, the worst strip in this comic.

No matter how much you try to sugarcoat it, it is simply impossible to praise this strip.

Constructive criticism you ask?
Let's try:
No wait, I'm still stuck in wtf.

Let's try again:
Inconsistencies, out of character, discontinuity errors, horrible dialogue, i.e. "Believe it Dex."
It's not even funny.
I think the plot got shot in the face multiple times.

I mean, Mookie, I know you like comic books and everything, but some genres just don't mix. Is this strip a subconscious self depreciating satire of the comic, your desire to move on to better things? You really have to ask yourself that.

And to all those who find these comments deplorable, remind yourself that these opinions are given freely, in the efforts to actually improve the comic.

by Hinoarashi on Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:14 am posted:


Mookie, please tell me you're fuggin kidding us.

I'm gonna pray you're fuggin kidding us.

PLEASE tell us that this is just Gregory's imagination and he is really just showing his white fire on the outside right now.

...please don't make us have to come down there and keel you.

That's all from page 1 of 10.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Another note, after reading through all 10 pages of the thread (don't bother by the way, it becomes a banal slapfight by page 3 or so), I think Mookie might have come up with the "Mookie Dominic manipulated Greg by exposing him to his childhood comic books action books" plot twist as a reaction to complaints on the forum. One of the main complaints (well, after "this is just stupid and embarrassing") is how there was no prior indication superheroes or comics were a thing in the setting, and MAYBE they might forgive this moment if that was revealed. Several of them even point out that Mookie has obviously modified plot elements based on forum reaction before.

Edit: lol I actually legitimately typed Mookie instead of Dominic by accident, I'm leaving that in

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

:effort:



lol @ the text on that help desk

I have no idea what this poem might mean or who J. Deegan might be but some of the finer Deegan scholars can probably figure it out.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

I'm still stuck on the sequence of events here. So let me get this straight:

- Snout and co. go to the library (and apparently all ditch Snout to go... Do something else?).
- Veth is running late, and sends a messenger to tell Snout.
- Veth shows up, gives Snout a book, and then just also straight up leaves immediately.
- Veth inserted a note partway through that book he assumed Snout would find, instead of, you know, just pointing out the page he wanted him to see before ditching him.

Did I get all that right? It honestly feels like these people are loving with Snout rather than helping him.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

But why tell him you're running late if all you're doing is giving him a book? Why slip a note in that book he might not find about reading a page instead of showing him that page before you take off? Actually, why not slip the note in page 27 and have it say "read the poem on this page"?

I know it's a case of "we're thinking about this more than Mookie did," but, MAN it's confusing.

Also, page 27 huh? Looks like Mookie drew that book only like ~40 pages long.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

DamnitGannet posted:

Remember the other ink witch and the other dude with her? Remember how they were bad guys who kidnapped ink witch? I don’t think Mookie does.

Now the much more important conflict is that one guy was rude to Snout. And it was cleared up by someone telling him to leave, off screen.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Yeah it's pretty amazing. There were two other forums (which are a pain in the rear end to navigate due to only existing on the Wayback Machine, so I can't extract any content from them) and they all seemed to have turned against Mookie around the same time.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Quite a few of them mentioned the rape thing as well as the first example of the comic jumping the shark. Maybe I'll go back and find the forum responses from that time too.

But yeah, the beginning of the end of fan good will was this storyline, not that one, for whatever reason.

Riot Bus posted:

Though, like I've seen a few mention in the Keenspot forums, I think that DD's update frequency had a lot of people hanging on for much longer than they might have otherwise. A webcomic updating daily had a way of keeping people around regardless of what went on.

I certainly read Sluggy Freelance for a LOT longer than I really should have considering how banal it was because it was my first webcomic. Once there were much better alternatives I realize that I - gasp - don't HAVE to read it.

Same thing with the Goosebumps series. I read them because I was a voracious reader as a kid, and there were a lot of them to read, but I eventually realized there was a lot better stuff out there. Now, coming to today, as a 37 year old, I don't read ANY books! Mission succeeded!

Beelzebufo posted:

What is the nature of the relationship: Mookie provides us no clues as to what the context of that relationship is, or what sort of trouble Veth could get into for talking to Snout, which is what was implied could happen with the clandestine note. What are the stakes for Veth? What are his goals? Does he like Daxethar but finds his professor's manners embarrasing, or is there fear/resentment/hatred there?

Yeah the fact that the orc mage dude (sorry I CANNOT remember these names) apparently kicked Dax out for being a dick to Snout is never referenced. Apparently it's just ok for Veth to still interact with him? Why is none of this explored? Why did him getting kicked out happen offscreen, without any of us seeing the aftermath? IDGI.

Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jul 2, 2021

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Bismuth posted:

To be fair to people back then (lol) The stonewater thing wasnt...that out of the ordinary for webmedia at the time was it? I remember being a girl online back then it was sort of hard to find any webcomics that appealed to me because they were a bit dominated by the 2000s gamer boy demographic so the market was pretty saturated in sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. Not defending mookie for doing it, but I can see how readers may not be that shocked by it considering the "market"

Ok I just looked back at the Keenspot forums for 1/25/2006 (the infamous strip), and... You don't need to be fair to them. The responses of the people in the forum are absolutely disgusting. Everyone thinks Stonewater is blameless. Some were actually making jokes about how long orcs last in bed. Virtually none were calling out Mookie for crafting such a bizarre, exploitative scenario all for the purposes of making a "heroic rapist". I think maybe the negative reaction came later after others processed the story alongside the constant backdrop of monkeycheese garbage.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Well Naruto withdrawal will do that to a man

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

I know this is from a while ago but I couldn't resist

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Reading this actually makes Star Power quite refreshing - yes, every single character is dumb as rocks, but at least there's no puppet master foretelling and controlling every single plotline.

Also, brb, gonna go tell my favorite restaurant to give some random person a free slice of cake and see how that goes

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Wait wait wait

You're looking for Dominic Deegan, right? And you see a poem authored by a "J. Deegan" and some other guy.

And you look up books written by THE OTHER GUY? Why?

Edit: oh I see I was beaten lol

Also, the information desk has a dossier on him with a photo and everything? lol



And of course, bottom panel is a reuse of an older drawing of Snout, of course. I think the others might be too. Even the most undiscerning remaining Deegan fan has to start getting annoyed by the constant copy/paste.

Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Jul 5, 2021

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Bismuth posted:

I'm still bewildered by ... Mookie ... comic

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

I'm still not sure I'm familiar with any of them, or even what the mystery even is - they seem to have a pretty clear understanding of Dominic's effect on the world, and Luna's contribution to the Orcs seems pretty well documented.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Not sure why I'm doing this...



I just noticed, why is his hair on the INSIDE of his arm in the 3rd image???





He reshades and redraws the details each time, so either he's tracing, or he's got basic outlines he copy/pastes and fills in. As the comic goes on, I wonder if he'll build up enough poses that he'll never have to totally redraw Snout again?

Also I hate his shoulder boils more and more every day. Snout is such a loving gross character design, the only part of him that's marginally acceptable is his face. Why everyone wants to sexually assault cuddle him is a mystery.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Yeah I was just looking at stuff in the last few pages.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Well last chapter was called The Language Barrier. This one isn't. So that problem is solved now.

Edit: A mystery solved:



There's no way this could have been conveyed in the comic, of course!

Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jul 6, 2021

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Bismuth posted:

Do you think he even asked if they had books about Dominic?

What, you mean the one specific book that he came here to find? I'm sure he looked for it off-panel and Mookie will clarify on Twitter that they didn't have it.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Is Snout's special power that he has no responsibilities or material worries, so he can spend all day reading and researching? The concept of money came up precisely once, after which the ink witch solved that problem, but then he apparently was able to afford food and supplies just fine after she ditched him anyway.

Edit: Mookie's twitter update for this page accidentally described how every conflict plays out in his comics:



The hero encounters an obstacle... Or does he??? (No)

Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jul 7, 2021

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Also a lot to unpack about this tweet:



1. Mookie still really likes and thinks about the aged-like-hot-cheese Spacaballs, enough to post a tweet about it in the year of our lord, 2021.
2. He apparently thinks Colonel Sanderz was an "unsung" comedic hero? I mean, it's been a while since I saw that movie, but it's not like I forgot that guy. He was there and he was the participant in many jokes, yes, and his timing was good because, you know, he's a professional actor and it was a comedic script written by professional writers.
3. He thinks the moment where the Colonel dodges the camera as it zooms in was "unnoticed if you're not looking for it". It was... A pretty obvious joke, my dude. I saw it and understood it right away and I last saw this movie when I was like 10.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

super sweet best pal posted:

:frogout: Spaceballs is still pretty great.

Codependent Poster posted:

Spaceballs still rules.

Ok, maybe I've overstated how badly it's aged, but I don't think it holds up nearly as well as Blazing Saddles or anything. I remember liking it a lot when I was a kid and not being very impressed when I watched it again as a teenager, and I think the cultural opinion of it dropped off in about the same way. Plus there was that inexplicable animated series in the 2000s...

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Beelzebufo posted:



And here's the first instance of the really gristly misoginist imagery of this arc. There's something about the viciousness in the way that Mookie drew Milov literally tearing Jayden's throat open, and her dead on the ground, that is gross. Not because it's a woman being killed either, but because this is explicitly the immediate reaction of the man who has been cheated on. It's this enacting of violence towards the significant other that is just too reminiscent of real-life, and given how Jayden is going to lay the blame for all this squarely on herself, and that she will actually be physically assaulted later in this arc, I don't give Mookie a pass just because it's an "illusion" or Milov apologizing later for "losing control". Mookie is the author is in total control of everything that we see and read, and he chose to draw Jayden dying this violently immediately after revealing her infidelity. That is symbolic punishment. That is misogyny.

And this begs the question of why Dominic didn't just use this illusion strategy on Snowsong and Gregory instead of putting people's lives at risk.

Billy Gnosis posted:

I know I posted this before, but by this point Mookie has been hired and fired as a burlesque emcee. The same person who wrote the above that feels so misogynistic and sex negative (also like it was written by a boy half his age)

Not true, he was still doing it as late as 2014 - if you can handle the cringe, here's the (seemingly) only known recording of Mookie-as-MC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWG2csfQ77M

I have no idea if it's true, but I assume he wrote the intro as well. It feels a lot like his bad Legacy poetry.

Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Jul 8, 2021

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Billy Gnosis posted:

If I cared more, I'd track down when he complained about being ousted on the Deegan website. But that feels like way too webdoggy for my tastes.


But good? to know that maybe he grew up a bit

I'm sure as hell not watching that video but I'm happy? it exists. Maybe.

Maybe this is a different group that he was with later? That he also was ousted from? Dunno, it's possible.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002



What?

This loving comic I swear to loving gently caress

The past 2 weeks of updates have been a waste of our loving time

And Dominic Deegan is still loving puppetmastering the entire universe from beyond the loving grave

gently caress

Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Jul 9, 2021

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Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002

Codependent Poster posted:

lol so Dominic definitely wrote that rule because he saw the future and has been puppet-mastering Snout all this time

Maybe, but it's just as equally likely and stupid that this was just totally convenient dumb luck

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