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Ghislaine of YOSPOS
Apr 19, 2020



Marzzle posted:

spooksons are absolutely a thing and are probably gonna be the major player in our inbred rear end aristocracy that does the USA in

see: GWB

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A Bakers Cousin
Dec 18, 2003


There's a ...matt damon movie?.... where he's a cia agent and he's recruited through inthink skull and bones at Yale and its clearly stated that familial ties were a huge part of recruitment and continued service.


I know its a movie but yeah, very believable premise.


Edit: lol didn't notice the bush post, fuckijg bullseye.

gh0stpinballa
Mar 5, 2019



Oh to be a bonesman, frolicking with that old yankee salt Pertly Meeks in Geronimo's coffin.

The Atomic Man-Boy
Jul 23, 2007




So.... I took a break from the McVeigh book because it was starting to get a little heavy. I was inspired by a recent episode of the Qanon Anonymous podcast, so I cracked open The Mothman Prophecies, thinking I could laugh at some imaginative if silly yokels getting scared at a bird-monster, and I am now a firm believer, just not in the monster.

For preface, a quick overview of the book/events that occurred around the book:

From the summer of 1966 through December 1967 in Point Pleasant, WV, there were a number of sightings of a man-sized bird monster with large red glowing eyes that seemed to more “hover” than “fly” when it takes off. There were also a huge amount of UFO sightings in the town, as well as strange out-of-towners that would spy the residents. This continued until the Silver bridge across the Ohio river collapsed, killing 46. At which point the sightings ended and the town was left to mourn.

Through it all, “UFO investigator” John Keel travels around the town, getting to know some of its inhabitants and sees a lot of the UFOs (but not the Mothman) himself. The book is kind of hard to follow, because Keel continually jumps between current events in the town as they occur and other weird “UFO encounters” that he’s researched or sightings of “mothmen” in the past. Keel is an odd duck, in that he’s skeptical of little green men and monsters, but also believes that some kind of force is loving with the town and him specifically. Sadly he’s too much of a credulous boomer to realize that some spooks are clearly running some kind of operation on the town and are also loving with him, specifically. Which is the conclusion you come to after having sufficiently crack-pinged, and looking at the facts in this book, which are largely overlooked because everyone pays attention to the monster.

These facts are:

1. People in town are constantly being harassed by clicking and whirring sounds from electronic devices that they can’t locate. These often cause fear or headaches in the residents. One woman starts hearing a loud, horrible metallic crunching sound, and looks out the window to see a man running away from her house and jumps the fence.

One time when Keel goes out to see where the “mothman” is nesting, near an old WWII ammo dump, he realizes that there is a spot in the ground that fills him with intense fear, and when ever he leaves this spot he feels fine again.

Keels also seems to have a bunch of static problems where ever he goes. His tape recorder frequently doesn’t work and he does a TV interview in his rented apartment which is ruined because the recording equipment is just picking up static. This is all very reminiscent of the recent Cuban embassy “attacks” where the employees felt violent headaches and were likely being attacked by either some kind of sound or microwave beam devices. I think similar devices are being used in the Point Pleasant, and Keel walks through its path several times.

2. Many people in town (especially those that see UFOs or the Mothman) get harassing phone calls where they hear loud beeps and whirs or from impostors claiming to be a neighbor or relative. A number of people also had their phones tapped. Keel bears the brunt of much of this harassment. Someone is also opening his mail, as a transcript he sends to a publisher is replace by something else entirely.

quote:

When you unscrew modern telephone earpieces you will often find a small piece of cotton which serves as a cushion for the magnet and diaphragm. You shouldn't find anything else. But when I opened this woman's handset I was startled to find a tiny sliver of wood. She said no one, not even the repairmen, had ever opened up her phone before. The wooden object looked like a piece of matchstick, sharpened at one end and lightly coated with a substance that looked like graphite. Later I showed it to telephone engineers and they said they'd never seen anything like it before. I put it in a plastic box and stored it away. Years later while visiting a magic store in New York (sleight of hand is one of my hobbies), I glanced at a display of practical jokes and discovered a cellophane package filled with similar sticks. Cigarette loads! Somehow an explosive cigarette load had gotten into that Point Pleasant telephone! Who put it there, when, how, and why must remain mysteries.

You see, I've been to the police before .. . about my cattle rustlers. I guess they think I'm some kind of a nut. I went to the FBI, too. They came out to my place but said they couldn't find anything. After that somebody tapped my telephone. Maybe it was the FBI.

I impulsively stopped at an isolated farmhouse one afternoon and when I knocked at the door a grim-faced man answered with a shotgun in his hands. I started to show my credentials and explain who I was but he cut me short.
"I know who you are," he growled. "We don't want anything to do with you. Get out of here."
Puzzled, I reported back to Mary and suggested that she visit the farm to see if she could find out the reason for the man's strange behavior.
The next day we went back. I remained in the car while she talked with him for several minutes. Finally they both came out to the car laughing.
"You're not going to believe this," the farmer began apologetically, "but ten minutes before you arrived here yesterday I got a phone call. It sounded like a neighbor of mine and he said he was calling to warn me about a crazy man ... a real dangerous type ... with a beard ... that had just been to see him. Said I shouldn't have anything to do with him. Ten minutes later you showed up. After you left, I called him back. He was out in the fields. Had been all day. His wife had to go get him. He said he hadn't made that call.”

During the recent Watergate debacle investigating reporters documented the fact that some of the participants were not only longtime CIA agents, but also that these same men had been involved in the abortive Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba in 1961, and some had been present in Dealey Plaza in Dallas on the day President Kennedy was assassinated. It is noteworthy that reporters, editors, and citizens engaged in the investigation of President Kennedy's death suffered harassment and telephone problems identical to those experienced by UFO researchers. Some of these tactics will be examined in detail further on.
However, I cannot accuse the CIA as being the source of the weird incidents outlined here. Rather, the phenomenon is imitative. This paranormal mimicry is difficult for many to understand but I come across constant examples.

I kept a careful log of the crank calls I received and eventually cataloged the various tactics of the mysterious pranksters. Some of these tactics are so elaborate they could not be the work of a solitary nut harassing UFO believers in his spare time. Rather, it all appears to be the work of either paranormal forces or a large and well-financed organization with motives that evade me.

Like everyone else, I was caught up in the games, mystery piling upon mystery. Someone somewhere obviously knew every move I was making, or so it seemed. I became very secretive, not even telling my closest friends where I was going or where I had been. Nevertheless, something seemed to be following me. I would drop in unannounced on a remote farm and soon after I settled down to chat with the residents their phone would ring and there would be no one on the line, or a series of loud beeps would ring out. The farmer would act astonished.
"We've never had a call like that before!"
The phone would ring repeatedly until I left.

I had other problems. I was going through one of my broke periods and owed the staggering sum of four hundred dollars in back taxes. The IRS sent a representative around to see me every single week. Once, two different IRS men turned up in the same week. (They were not MIB ... but were definitely from the IRS.) One seedy little character was so obnoxious and insulting that I actually grabbed him by the collar and physically threw him out of the apartment. Another let slip a remark about a movie deal I was working on (it eventually fell through) which no one, not even my friends, knew about. The only way he could have known about it was through listening to my telephone conversations.
Was the IRS tapping my phone for a lousy four hundred dollars? Was I on somebody's "Enemies" list?
I was complaining to the telephone company about my many crank calls and telephone interference, so I asked them to run a check and see if my phone was being tapped. A few days later my friendly telephone representative called me back.
"You were right, Mr. Keel," she said. "Somebody is definitely tapped into your phone."
I switched on my tape recorder and asked her to repeat the statement, which she did. Then I asked her to put it in writing, but she hedged there.
"Do you have any idea who's tapping it?" I asked.
“We can't tell that. All we know is there's a drop in the voltage that indicates that someone is hooked up to it.”

Three months later, however, I accidentally discovered what was probably the answer to many of my problems. A friend dialed my number and her finger slipped. Instead of dialing the last two digits—four eight—correctly, she dialed four zero. She realized instantly what she had done and was about to hang up and redial when I answered the phone! She told me what she had done and I suggested we hang up and try four zero again. Again my phone rang. I had two phone numbers and never knew it! I asked other friends to try the four zero number. Sometimes my phone would ring and I would answer. Other times my phone would remain silent but someone else would answer and would offer to "take a message for Mr. Keel." I called the four zero number from a pay phone and someone picked it up.
“Hi, this is John Keel," I said cheerily. "Any messages for me?"
There was an audible gasp on the other end and they slammed the receiver down.

Lol. So close yet so far away.

3. G-men are going around tapping phone lines and generally spying on people. Whenever they are confronted they act odd and slink away quickly.

quote:

One night Roger Scarberry, Steve Mallette, and myself were driving around the TNT area when we came upon a large black Cadillac parked in the shadows. I slammed on the brakes, got out of our car, and walked over to the other vehicle. A well-dressed, distinguished-looking man was sitting behind the wheel holding a microphone in his hand. I tried to engage him in a conversation but he would only grunt. Obviously he wanted to be left alone. I never saw him again.

During his second visit to Point Pleasant Dan uncovered some Mothman witnesses I had missed. And he also came across some more baffling Men-in-Black-type reports. People up in the back hills had been seeing mysterious unmarked panel trucks which sometimes parked for hours in remote spots. There seemed to be several of these trucks in the area and the rumor was that they belonged to the air force. Men in neat coveralls were seen monkeying with telephone and power lines but no one questioned them.

4. Point pleasant is near an air force base, housing the Air national Guard (an organization rife with links to CIA drug smugglers, BTW)

quote:

Throughout West Virginia I had heard stories of large, gray, unmarked airplanes hedgehopping the treacherous hills. I knew the air national guard kept some cargo planes at the Charleston airport and that some training flights involved hedgehopping to keep below radar beams. But none of the flights reported to me proved to be the work of the national guard.
Drasin and Estrella had hardly started out for New York when all hell began to break loose. Late on the afternoon of March 31, a workman in the Point Pleasant lumber yard saw a glowing object hovering over the home of Mrs. Doris Deweese. Shortly afterward, Mrs. Deweese watched a luminous object zip across the sky and crash into a small shack on a neighboring hillside. The shack housed the transmitter for Sheriff Johnson's police, radio. It started to burn.


5. Rumors began to spread about an incoming disaster that would befall the town.

quote:

In addition to the continuing warnings about the December power blackout, the entities now began to tell me about a terrible forthcoming disaster on the Ohio River. Many people would die, they said. They implied that one of the factories along the Ohio would blow up. On November 3, 1967, I wrote to Mary Hyre and told her: "I have reason to suspect there may soon be a disaster in the Point Pleasant area which will not be related to the UFO mystery. A plant along the river may either blow up or burn down. Possibly the navy installation in Pt. Pleasant will be the center of such a disaster. A lot of people may be hurt ....Don't even hint to anybody anything about this."
(The naval installation was a fenced-in area in Point Pleasant, facing the river and tightly guarded. The men who worked there were sworn to secrecy, but during my first visit it only took me a few days to find out what was going on there. I am not going to reveal any national secrets here, but my private conclusion was that some admiral in the Pentagon should get his rear end kicked for wasting the taxpayers' money ... and for putting this type of installation in a populated area.)

6. Before the bridge collapses people are loving seen climbing along the sides of it at night.

quote:

After a month of brutally hard work, divers and rescue teams recovered thirty-eight bodies. Several other people in Ohio and West Virginia were never heard from again and it was assumed they also went down with the bridge. A number of UFO witnesses were among the dead.
"I talked to one woman who lives right by the bridge," Mary continued. "She says that two days ago she saw two men climbing the bridge."
"Climbing on it?"
"Yes. They weren't walking across. They were climbing around the sides of it"
"Was she able to describe them?"
"They were wearing checkered coats and black trousers.

So it’s kind of obvious that [/i] something [/i] is going on here, and a mothman isn’t it.

So here’s my pet theory:

We know from Saucers, Spooks and Kooks: UFO Disinformation in the Age of Aquarius, (which I admittedly haven’t yet read, but maybe after the McVeigh book) that UFOs had a lot less to do with aliens and more with military spooks trying to hide their operations and weapons testing by stirring up credulous UFO researchers.

(This part’s a bit more speculative on my end,) We also know from Tom O’Neil’s Chaos that after Operation Midnight Climax, the CIA was looking for ways to take LSD research “into the field.” I think that Keel inadvertently stumbled onto one such experiment and was too credulous to figure it out.

I think some spooks were trying to answer the question: What would happen if you dose a population with LSD and submit it to trauma?

Why would they want to do that? I don’t know, but say they wanted to see what happens when they use acid or some other hallucinogen to drug a whole city, like for example Havana, and see what happens when they do a bunch of sabotage and then do something shocking like drop a bomb, blow up a bridge or land a bunch boats full of marines. Would the fact that everyone is high on LSD make that easier?

Of course it isn’t feasible to manufacture enough LSD to drug the entire city, (or in Point Pleasant’s case a small town) but it may be feasible to put enough of it in the water supply such that people have long-running low levels of it in their system, and then wage a campaign of harassment and sabotage on them in and see what happens. Finally, commit a shocking act of terrorism and see what their reaction is. This was before terrorism was a thing in the political imagination, so it would have to look like an accident and not an act of malice, thus a bridge collapse.

Of course this would need to take place far away from San Francisco hippies so none of the subjects would be aware of LSD or its effects. A place near an air force base or naval base (or in Point Pleasant's case, both) would also be ideal, both logistically and because you might already be running some kind of operations to make people think they're seeing UFOs anyways. You can get more use out of the same personnel.

I think that this is also what explains the Mothman itself. People in town likely were just seeing a normal owl or crane (which is a spooky enough thing to see at night anyways), and because they saw it with a little bit of LSD in their system, they hallucinated it to be something scarier than it actually was. Then of course they tell the local sheriff and the newspapers what they saw, inviting further harassment.

The LSD/sabotage plot is pure speculation on my part, but it is, I think, the only good explanation where all of the facts of what happened in 1966-67 come together with any coherency. When I first started reading the book, I thought it would just be bored yokels making up sci-fi stories from the popular imagination until a natural disaster snaps them all out of it. But with all the other things around it...it becomes hard not to see an intentional and malicious campaign to terrorize these people. Whether or not that's related to a "Mothman" or a bridge collapse is up to your interpretation.

If you do actually care to read it, it's quite clear that some three-letter-agencies are loving with this town and that's my best explanation for why. It's a shame that it was all filtered through "John Keel, UFO researcher," because the book had too much nonsense for me to get through if not for recognizing that there was a real campaign to gently caress with this town and the Mothman was the least interesting part of the book.

It's also endearing how people in 1967 believe in their government enough that they would sooner attribute these unfortunate events to aliens and mothmen than malice

So that’s what I got out of The Mothman Prophecies, which was an otherwise bad book. So, thanks thread for making me think this way!

The Atomic Man-Boy has issued a correction as of 07:16 on Apr 23, 2021

nut
Jul 30, 2019


^ Great post! Repeatedly, intelligence-linked academics suggested dosing a small town water supply (some suggest with LSD, some suggest with radiation) to test the militarized effects of substances "ecologically". The creation of a Mothman myth might seem really stupid and arbitrary, but look at the Phoenix Project in Vietnam and the incorporation of social scientists into soldier squads through the Special Operations Research Office (SORO, I know). The entire idea was to capitalize on local belief/mythology/fear to compromise an entire village.

On another note, I'm hoping to finish the McVeigh book today or tomorrow. I will say, I was completely blown away by the MKUltra-ish section, which was full of info I hadn't heard before and now I have a million new books and sources to check.

That being said, one thing I noticed that I posted about a week or so ago is about the case study of "Thomas" from Mark and Ervin's book about violence and the brain (and using psychosurgery to treat it).

From Aberration in the Heartland of the Real (somewhere in Part 4):

Wendy Painting posted:

The committee’s report did discuss one particularly disturbing account about an otherwise normal and functioning man named “Thomas” who had been hospitalized at a civilian hospital for depression in 1965. The committee did not mention that it was an MK funded hospital, as MKUltra and similar mind control projects were not yet publicly known. Regardless, while Thomas was not psychotic and had never displayed violent tendencies, Dr.’s Vernon Mark and Frank Ervin deemed him incurable and implanted “multiple electrodes” in his brain, telling his mother that he had simply undergone a “minor surgical operation.” The doctors removed the implants a year later (or so they said) and Thomas was released from the hospital. Weeks later, now exhibiting severe confusion and disorientation, he was arrested for a minor offense and sent to a V.A. hospital (where West happened to work). Thomas told the V.A. doctors that the civilian hospital he’d just been released from was “controlling him [by] microwaves [and] electrodes in his brain.” He said they could control his moods and actions, and could turn him “up or down” at will. After hearing his story, the V.A. doctors, assumedly unknowing of what had actually occurred, diagnosed him as schizophrenic, delusional and paranoid and declared him totally disabled.196 I’m not saying Dr. West tortured this man, but he would soon sing the praises of the men who did and even suggested they come work on his own implant project.

Painting doesn't go on to point out that subsequent lawsuits reveal "Thomas" to be Leonard Arthur Kille. I made a compiled full-life post about Kille recently (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3893410&pagenumber=666#post513889377)

Between what I learned about Kille and the description by Painting there is one huge discrepancy. Kille actually was psychotic and displayed increasing violent tendencies (and was hospitalized several times for it earlier), ultimately leading to his psychosurgery at the hands of Mark and Ervin. This explains why Kille actually sees specifically Mark and Ervin, who specialize in the Biology of Violence (they lesioned his amygdala to curb his violence and they report it a success but as you can see above it was anything but).

So when did Kille get so violent, you might ask?

I know my big post on Kille didn't catch on, so here is a highlight reel of Kille's life and if you want any details go back to my last post:

- Born to poor parents who moved around a lot
- Ultimately left by his parents to a church-run boarding school where there is evidence of sexual abuse specifically on Kille
- At 18, is serving as a ballistic missile defense radar monitor in a remote station during the Korean War. Reportedly suffers a perforated peptic ulcer so great that he ends up in a coma for several days. He is shipped home and starts exhibiting bouts of violent psychosis. These bouts will grow greater and more frequent over the years until his wife ultimately leaves him and he is hospitalized after a car crash (the reason he is hospitalized as above)
- From 1955-1965, just a decade, while Kille's violent tendencies grow, here is the list of military contractors he works at and shuffles between in order. The commonality is photographic equipment work for UAVs including the U-2 spy plane :

- Douglas Aircraft (photographic instrumentation engineer '55-58)
- Polaroid Corporation (draftsman who ends up on patents for parts of the U-2, '58-60)
- Edgerton, Germeshausen and Grier (MIT military-contractor spinoff, engineer, '60-64)
- Honeywell (not sure his job title, '64-65)

Suplex Liberace
Jan 18, 2012





nut posted:

^ Great post! Repeatedly, intelligence-linked academics suggested dosing a small town water supply (some suggest with LSD, some suggest with radiation)

I thought that did actually happen to a town in france?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/isaiah_bb/status/1385262461532606465?s=19

gh0stpinballa
Mar 5, 2019



Suplex Liberace posted:

I thought that did actually happen to a town in france?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-10996838

Suplex Liberace
Jan 18, 2012






Idk who this super hot dude is. I'm guessing he died of suspicious friendly fire.

https://twitter.com/renemoriel/status/1385311848958857218?s=20

gh0stpinballa
Mar 5, 2019



Could have been ergot poisoning but then isn't ergot a part of LSD or something

nut
Jul 30, 2019





thank god Steven Kaplan, a bread historian, is here to provide correct psychological diagnosis

Suplex Liberace
Jan 18, 2012





nut posted:



thank god Steven Kaplan, a bread historian, is here to provide correct psychological diagnosis

Don't knock my chosen profession

GWBBQ
Jan 2, 2005




nut posted:

was excited to finally find a book on biological weapons, but already in the preface, I have a sneaking suspicion it isn't going to be very useful


That looks very much like a book that prefaces every third sentence with "according to official reports."

gh0stpinballa posted:

Could have been ergot poisoning but then isn't ergot a part of LSD or something
Ergot contains ~2% ergotamine, which is metabolized into LSD, and Wikipedia goes into more detail than I'll bore you all with.

A Bakers Cousin posted:

There's a ...matt damon movie?.... where he's a cia agent and he's recruited through inthink skull and bones at Yale and its clearly stated that familial ties were a huge part of recruitment and continued service.
You're thinking of The Skulls, with Joshua Jackson (clean AFAIK) and Paul Walker (The Fast and the Furious; known Ephebophile Pedophile)

mdemone
Mar 14, 2001

There is no route out of the maze. The maze shifts as you move through it, because it is alive.




Suplex Liberace posted:

Idk who this super hot dude is. I'm guessing he died of suspicious friendly fire.

https://twitter.com/renemoriel/status/1385311848958857218?s=20

lol yeah that's an understatement. his boys fragged him.

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001






if only he had...played ball.

nut
Jul 30, 2019


nut posted:



thank god Steven Kaplan, a bread historian, is here to provide correct psychological diagnosis

actually you know what, gently caress this dude, by 1951, Sandoz were still in the thick of generating as many LSD derivatives as possible, so even assuming that it would've been specifically LSD-25 was being mass tested is oversimplifying.

In a 1955 Josiah Macy (CIA Cut-out) conference on Neuropharmacology and LSD (Chaired by Harold Abramson), Aurelio Cerletti (working at Sandoz) mentions work including LSD-25, the diethylamide derivatives l-LSD, d-iso-LSD, l-iso-LSD, the relative Ergonovine, dihydro-LSD, BOL-148, l-acetyl-LSD, l-methyl-LSD, and LAE-32.

By now, we know that the diethylamide component seems pretty important to generate exclusively psychological effects, but compare LSD-25 vs ergonovine.



LSD and Ergonovine (a semisynthetic) were created at the same time in 1938 by A. Stoll and A. Hofmann at Sandoz.

I've had to find Steven Kaplan's argument against the LSD-accusation by Albarelli in interviews because Kaplan's book is written in French (the coward's language). But he argues that LSD-25 doesn't produce vegetative or bodily effects as observed in the deaths at Pont-Saint-Espirit.

https://www.france24.com/en/20100311-did-cia-poison-french-town-with-lsd

Steven Kaplan posted:

I have numerous objections to this paltry evidence against the CIA. First of all, it's clinically incoherent: LSD takes effects in just a few hours, whereas the inhabitants showed symptoms only after 36 hours or more. Furthermore, LSD does not cause the digestive ailments or the vegetative effects described by the townspeople.

and to clarify these specific effects Kaplan refers to, here they are excerpted from Albarelli's book, "A Terrible Mistake: The Murder of Frank Olson and the CIA's Secret Cold War Experiments" chapter 9: LSD & Pont-St.-Esprit:

Albarelli posted:

...The fatal cases were poorly documented. Local doctor Albert Gabbi and two colleagues examined the dead and concluded: “Three of these people were old and in bad health. The woman had hyperthyroidism. One of the men was only 25 years old and had been in good health previously.” Gabbi reported that all four people “died in muscular spasm and in a state of cardiovascular collapse. The blood urea was raised to 150mg. per 100 ml. The woman showed at her death a moist gangrene of the toes.”...

...Gabbi stated, “we observed epileptiform convulsions, controlled by barbiturates.”...

... A pregnant woman was seen with frank hemorrhages, and several women menstruated prematurely...

I think Kaplan is fair in pointing out these are not typical side effects of the canonical LSD-25, but what of all the derivatives, including Ergonovine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergometrine

Wikipedia posted:

Possible side effects include nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, diarrhea, headache, dizziness, tinnitus, chest pain, palpitation, bradycardia, transient hypertension and other cardiac arrhythmias, dyspnea, rashes, and shock.[10] An overdose produces a characteristic poisoning, ergotism or "St. Anthony's fire": prolonged vasospasm resulting in gangrene and amputations; hallucinations and dementia; and abortions.

Many of these effects are heightened when administered as Ergonovine maleate taken orally.

Now, all these chemicals are derived from ergot, and so maybe the simplest explanation is just an incredibly acute rash of ergotism, but I just wanted to clarify that, although it doesn't look like LSD-25, that doesn't discount what Sandoz was generating and testing next door.

e: I couldn't readily find ergonovine and barbituate interaction information

ee: I'm in no way shape or form a chemist just a ctrl+f man on the internet thank u for listening

nut has issued a correction as of 14:37 on Apr 23, 2021

bedpan
Apr 23, 2008



mdemone posted:

lol yeah that's an understatement. his boys fragged him.

I had heard it was a friendly fire incident; did they really intentionally shoot the guy?

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001






yah

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

bedpan posted:

I had heard it was a friendly fire incident; did they really intentionally shoot the guy?

absolutely

bedpan
Apr 23, 2008






drat. that explains an awful lot.

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008



why

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

Pat Tillman was a noted professional football player with a salary over $500,000 a year and a brilliant future ahead of him in the National Football League. The exact opposite of a “Chickenhawk,” and after 9/11, Pat Tillman dropped everything, turned down a 3-year, $3.6 million contract and enlisted in the US Army to help his country.

Two years later he died in Afghanistan. The Pentagon told Tillman’s family that he was a hero who had been killed by enemy fire. At first, Tillman’s death was a useful propaganda tool for the right and a tool to encourage patriotism for the war.

The left was accused of of being anti-American and demons when Tillman’s death was first announced. [From] The Left Smears an American Hero,


quote:

With the body barely cold, the Left has begun demonizing the late Pat Tillman. Tillman is the former NFL star who turned down a $3.6 million contract to join the Army Rangers after 9/11. He was killed last month in Afghanistan after Islamist soldiers ambushed his jeep. For most Americans, such noble service would qualify Tillman as a national hero, but it has unleashed a torrent of hatred on the Left.

But then reality started messing with the storyline the administration was using.

It emerged that Army investigators covered up that he was killed by “friendly fire.” Then it was revealed that in fact, there was no engagement with the enemy at all - Pat Tillman was still a hero, but his death was a tragic mistake Then AP reported,


quote:

Within hours of Pat Tillman’s death, the Army went into information-lockdown mode, cutting off phone and Internet connections at a base in Afghanistan, posting guards on a wounded platoon mate, and ordering a sergeant to burn Tillman’s uniform.

It finally came out that Tillman had been against Bush’s policies, and was an atheist.

At this point, as Pat Tillman’s family sought closure on his death, they and America watched something very disturbing. No longer the convenient cover boy for the war, Pat Tillman became instead a target of smears and attacks.

Just as Ann Coulter attacked Bobby Muller a Vietnam Veteran in a wheelchair with a pithy: ‘People like you caused us to lose that war.’

Now it was Pat Tilmman’s turn. The leader of the second cover-up investigation called Tillman “worm dirt” because he was an atheist. Lasast week the extent of the Pentagon and Bush administration’s mendacity became more and more clear - evidence surfaced that Tillman may have been shot at close range,


quote:

Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman’s forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether his death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by the Associated Press.

As the news goes from bad to worse for administration the distraction strategy is elevated. Time and time again, we have seen this used, sadly, often with great success.

If you don’t want to talk about John Edwards plan to end Poverty, talk about his hair.

If you can’t compete with Hillary on her policies, talk about her cleavage.

It is a tactic that deprives the American people of a conversation about the real problems of our country. It is a strategy that keeps good men and women out of running; and the media is part of the problem, not part of the solution as they should be.

Right-wing blog Macsmind:


quote:

He wasn’t so much a patriot as he was apparently an antiwar leftist who enjoyed chomping on Noam Chomsky.

... Not the first, won’t be the last leftist in the ranks. Fact is so is his brother, Kevin. Shame. We used to sniff them out in basic training and help them “out”.

Pat Tillman is a hero. The military leaders who covered up his death and at the same time, promoted his sacrifice as a propoganda tool, there the ones that should be sniffed out and helped ‘out’ of the service of this country.

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001






like most friendly fire incidents ol' pat was triple tapped in the face nowhere near conflict and all his possessions were destroyed by his boss
war is hell they say

smarxist
Jul 26, 2018

correct politics haver
...weed...



Just for funsies, I'm posting the Down The Rabbit Hole episode about the Austrian Wine Poisoning Incident because it's a well documented completely real series of events that happened where greedy capitalist dudes engineered the systematic poisoning of mass swaths of the population for profit, which involved knots of collusion of varying size at every level, production floor, transportation, quality assurance, even law enforcement.

I think it's important to take something like this in that's so real/mundane but also wide reaching and dangerous to remember how loving dangerous abstracted systems of power under the control of ambitious and greedy men can be, the birthing pod of all this insanity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhN-o2ame-4

ram dass in hell
Dec 29, 2019



Relatively normie friend irl brought up mkultra unprompted last night and i had to forcibly restrain myself

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

Get into shit, let it out like diarrhea
Got burnt once, that was only gonorrhea




gradenko_2000 posted:

Within hours of Pat Tillman’s death, the Army went into information-lockdown mode, cutting off phone and Internet connections at a base in Afghanistan,

This much is standard procedure every time someone dies under any circumstance

SpaceGoku
Jul 19, 2011



ram dass in hell posted:

Relatively normie friend irl brought up mkultra unprompted last night and i had to forcibly restrain myself

smarxist
Jul 26, 2018

correct politics haver
...weed...



ram dass in hell posted:

Relatively normie friend irl brought up mkultra unprompted last night and i had to forcibly restrain myself

normie friend: "yo, you ever heard about that MKultra poo poo the army was doing in the 60's? you believe that poo poo?"

me:

Fried Watermelon
Dec 29, 2008




ram dass in hell
Dec 29, 2019



smarxist posted:

normie friend: "yo, you ever heard about that MKultra poo poo the army was doing in the 60's? you believe that poo poo?"

me:

i brought up kasczynski, mcveigh, and tuskeegee as next fun research topics lol

nut
Jul 30, 2019


hit em with the fernald science club so they can impress their friends

Sushi The Kid
Sep 10, 2005
<img src="https://forumimages.somethingawful.com/images/newbie.gif" border=0>




Last Podcast on the Left did a series on The OKC bombing. Episodes 274 - 277. They go real deep on the subject.

Hooplah
Jul 15, 2006


fuck money
smoke bitches
get trees


in my head pat tillman was basically real life rustin cohle and all his squadmates were woody harrelsons that couldn't handle his monologues any more

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy


Unfortunately the subtitling on this one is fake

Danger
Jan 4, 2004

all desire - the thirst for oil, war, religious salvation - needs to understood according to what he calls 'the demonogrammatical decoding of the Earth's body'

here’s a nice little ping for your crack today
https://gizmodo.com/signals-ceo-just-hacked-the-cops-favorite-phone-crackin-1846733412

Demon Semen
Apr 3, 2021



Hooplah posted:

in my head pat tillman was basically real life rustin cohle and all his squadmates were woody harrelsons that couldn't handle his monologues any more

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8x73UW8Hjk

nut
Jul 30, 2019


Has anyone posted documentary recs on here? I saw someone post recently about cold case hammarskjöld so i'll check that out but does anyone else have anything? I watched the Mirage Men one recently but found it incredibly disappointing

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

nut posted:

Has anyone posted documentary recs on here? I saw someone post recently about cold case hammarskjöld so i'll check that out but does anyone else have anything? I watched the Mirage Men one recently but found it incredibly disappointing

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u5NNsUr6hWo

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GGHXjO8wHsA

Laterite
Mar 14, 2007

It's Gutfest '89

Grimey Drawer

few things infuriate me more than tillman's murder & subsequent coverup

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Jetto Jagga
Feb 6, 2021

Built for peace

Apropos of Mothman posts, here's a piece in the Magonia Review covering a recent booklet written on the fascist/reactionary background of the men behind the Flying Saucer Review, Britain's premiere and longest running UFO publication:

quote:

Unlike its early rival Flying Saucer News, the review was not founded out of organised ufology but by people in the publishing industry. The driving force was the rather sinister Ian Waveney Girvan (1908-1964), a man deeply involved in hard right pro-Nazi politics, before and after the war. Girvan was trained as a chartered accountant but by the end of the 1930s had become involved with Westaway books, the co-director of which was the Nazi sympathiser John Beckett. Beckett was interned as a potential traitor during the war, and the company's chief financer was the pro-Nazi Lord Tavistock, later Duke of Bedford. Bedford was in effect Girvan’s employer by the late 1940s. By this time Girvan was fed up with life under the thumb of the Duke and found employment with a firm that shared premises with Westaway Books, Carroll and Nicholson. The authors of this booklet suggest that this was at the instigation of Beckett who wanted to use the firm to produce far-right political material.

quote:

Dempster was succeeded as editor by Brinsley Le Poer Trench, the fifth son of an Anglo-Irish aristocrat. Like many younger sons of the aristocracy he was sent out to 'Trade', and in the 1950s was employed selling advertising copy in a gardening magazine. Trench shared Leslie’s background, though at a less exalted level, and his interest in theosophy and occultism. He also shared Girvan’s involvement in pre-war far right politics, being a member of the pro-German Right Club. Trench would continue to show far right views in later life, during his time in the House of Lords as Lord Clancarty he was a noted supporter of the racist Smith regime in Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe).

Under Trench’s editorship FSR degenerated into a receptacle for just about any contactee tale going, perhaps the nadir being articles by T Lobsang Rampa an alleged Tibetan lama, who was actually a very British plumber called Cyril Hoskins, who came from the less exotic realm of Thames Ditton.

quote:

On the surface it might appear that the man who took over, regular contributor, diplomat, linguist, intelligence agent and long-time friend of Bowen, Gordon Creighton would be ideal for the job. There was however a terrible fly in the ointment, Gordon Creighton was paranoid to the point of clinical mental illness. John Harney recalls meeting Bowen at a BUFORA meeting some time in the 1970s, where the FSR editor described Creighton as “awfully nice chap, but nutty as a fruitcake”.

His paranoia was of two parts; the first, probably shared by a number of people of his age, class and background was that anyone whose values, beliefs, outlook on life or lifestyle would not meet the wholehearted approval of the more elderly and conservative members of the Rickmansworth Golf Club were agents of the monolithic global Communist conspiracy - this being particularly true of feminists.

Creighton’s additional spin on this trope was that the global Communist conspiracy was behind the scenes being run by the supernatural beings known to the Arabs and the wider Moslem world as djinns and to the rest of us as fairies, boggarts, elves, gnomes, fays, lutins, duendes, etc. etc., such supernatural beings also being responsible for most if not all manifestations that caused UFO reports. Furthermore this gigantic boggart-communist conspiracy already secretly controlled the world and would soon undertake overt world conquest. However this global conspiracy would from time to time divert their attention from world conquest to order the removal of books on UFOs from Britain’s public libraries.

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