|
inconsequential posted:Thank you as always for the recommendation. How do you find this stuff nut? You always seem to have a good book for any topic. I mostly started by just reading thread recs, which give you a handle on what to expect from a good book, then I look up what those books cite/similar authors and so on. also there are so v good book rec Twitter accounts like Hugo Turner (for anti-imperialism), gumby4christ for more science-y stuff. I had never learned about Lewontin until I finished Capital and wanted to know of marxists that apply dialectics to biology and bam there he was.
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 13:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 15:29 |
|
|
i went and dug up the old reading list and added a few things from the thread for my own use but i dont see why i shouldent post it CHAOS: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties by Tom O'Neill (Manson connections to CIA and MKUltra, Helter Skelter as cover-up) The Franklin Scandal: A Story of Powerbrokers, Child Abuse & Betrayal by Nick Bryant (Epstein-like trafficking/blackmail ring) The Jakarta Method by Vincent Bevins (CIA-led projects in anti-communism and coups in the Third World, focus on Indonesia and S. America) Surveillance Valley by Yasha Levine (Intelligence involvement in the originals of the Internet and technology for surveillance) Strange Tales of the Parapolitical by William Snider/Recluse of VISUP (Mellon-Hitchcock as financier of CIA, Spider Network, poorly written and edited) Poisoner in Chief: Sidney Gottlieb and the CIA Search for Mind Control by Stephen Kinzer (CIA MKUltra, Assassinations, Spy tech, Bio and Chem warfare) Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA by Tim Weiner (History of the CIA...duh) The Devil's Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America's Secret Government by David Talbot (Dulles' pre-, during, and post-CIA. Equally horrible throughout) Weird Scenes Inside The Canyon: Laurel Canyon, Covert Ops & The Dark Heart Of The Hippie Dream by Dave McGowan (Lots of interesting fodder, without backinge evidence, of Laurel Canyon as a op predating hippies and the music that represents them) Programmed to Kill: The Politics of Serial Murder by Dave McGowan (Available online as PDF, Note that a couple details of his reporting/hypothesizing ended up being wrong in some killer cases, but as a thesis it's about as crackping as you can get) Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty, America's Invisible Government, and the Hidden History of the Last Fifty Years by Russ Baker (Bush Family connections to CIA and JFK assassination) All the Shah's Men: An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror by Stephen Kinzer (CIA coup in Iran and Middle East involvement since) Male Fantasies by Klaus Theweleit (Study on the fascist culture of the Freikorps post ww1 through how they depict women) Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II by William Blum (CIA Cold War Imperialism) Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years by David Talbot (JFK/RFK assassinations) CIA as Organized Crime by Douglas Valentine (CIA is the world Mob) NATO's Secret Armies: Operation Gladio and Terrorism in Western Europe by Daniele Ganser (NATO created stay behind units when Allies stopped occupying post WW2) The Splendid Blond Beast: Money, Law, and Genocide in the Twentieth Century by Christopher Simpson (Post WW2 saving of Nazi war criminals, mass murder in the name of state power/corporate looting) Blowback: America's Recruitment of Nazis and Its Effects on the Cold War by Christopher Simpson (WW2 and Beyond use of Nazis in covert intelligence projects) Operation Mind Control: The CIA's Plot Against America by Walter Bowart (Posits MKUltra as a success, Lee Harvey Oswald, James Earl Ray, Sirhan Sirhan) Management of Savagery: How America's National Security State Fueled the Rise of Al Qaeda, ISIS, and Donald Trump by Max Blumenthal (Definitely in the title here) This Monstrous War by Wilfred G. Burchett (Available online as PDF, Korean War, Very not in circulation as far as I can tell) Men in the Shadows: The RCMP Security Service by John Sawatsky (CIA bombing Cuban Trade Association in Montreal, Canada) Think Tank Aesthetics: Midcentury Modernism, the Cold War, and the Neoliberal Present by Pamela Lee (Cold War defense strategy think tanks and their impact on art and greater political reasoning, I think) Yankee and Cowboy War by Carl Oglesby (internal us intelligence power struggle, jfk and watergate) Insane Killers Inc. by Charles Maurice (belgian Brabant killers, possible gladio) The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia by Alfred W. McCoy (CIA SE asin drug trafficking) The Black Book of Canadian Foreign Policy by Yves Engler (canadian imperialism) In God's Name by David Yallop (john Paul assas. p2 and vatican bank) Open Veins of Latin America by Eduardo Galeano (colonialism and imperialism in LA) The Phoenix Program America's Use of Terror in Vietnam By Douglas Valentine (phoenix program, vietnam computerized warfare)
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 13:54
|
|
|
lol of course the judge in this case is Kaplan https://twitter.com/STVNews/status/1437672005231419394?s=20
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 13:59
|
|
|
Suplex Liberace posted:i went and dug up the old reading list and added a few things from the thread for my own use but i dont see why i shouldent post it This was horrifically formatted and near unreadable so i did a quick job of it on the mobile app
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 14:11
|
|
|
Suplex Liberace posted:i went and dug up the old reading list and added a few things from the thread for my own use but i dont see why i shouldent post it e; oh, i actually way prefer the original formatting but its good to have both for preference so thanks for reformatting too yo. like they say in gladio, team work dream work.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 14:11
|
|
|
ya we been meaning to update it but just haven't had the chance, if nothing else we gotta get that mcveigh book on there
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 14:13
|
|
|
I bet it looks fine on desktop? But on Awful it was personally way too hard to read but i might be alone there idk
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 14:16
|
|
|
Riot Bimbo posted:I bet it looks fine on desktop? But on Awful it was personally way too hard to read but i might be alone there idk anyway, i feel like there is enough lit. around this area that podcasts which look into this stuff have enough source material for a while. not telling them how to do their jobs but i feel like a podcast like trueanon, say, would benefit from seeing that list haha. i have to say, a small and strange influence this thread has had on my life is playing the board game Twilight Struggle feels odd. Feeling like there are narratives and angles beneath most of the 'events' on the cards isn't new/shocking but knowing the actual details of the cold war cia conspiracies makes it all kinda silly.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 14:27
|
|
|
Lampsacus posted:Twilight Struggle This reminds me of this album some goon posted in phiz years ago: https://percivalpembroke.bandcamp.com/album/twilight-struggle (pretty sure he's now called perc2 on the forums). Defo heavy late night Epstein thread-vibes for sure. Ambient / drone ftw
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 14:46
|
|
|
Haven't read this thread in awhile but here's something that came to me today
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 14:51
|
|
|
Lampsacus posted:oh for sure. after i wrote that post i was like, i'm such a dummie who cares. remember that the only thing NATO is really good for is preventing a communist takeover in Italy 
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 14:57
|
|
|
sorry for dredging this up but this one has been bugging me since yesterday. What is the idea here? Vaccines do not work instantly and all literature that came out with vaccination suggested 2 weeks from the injection as to when they begin to take effect. This tweet talks about "anyone who gets covid, hospitalized or dies", but it's not 'getting covid or hospitalized/death', this is a study reporting covid and hospitalization/death. The difference is important because if you are waving around this data qualification as proof that people are dying from vaccinations and these numbers are being hidden, it ignores that this report is about people who had covid. If you wanted to make this point you would point to one of the limitations of the study, "Fourth, COVID-19-associated deaths included deaths occurring ≤60 days after a first SARS-CoV-2 positive test date; therefore, some COVID-19– associated deaths might have been from other causes (excluding trauma)", but to believe that's the rule vs the exception means you assume most of the people hospitalized/dying as "unvaccinated" are in the two week period after their first vaxx. Or is it straight up just trying to say the second you get injected you should be considered partially vaxxed? There is a similar period after the second injection before you are considered fully vaxxed. I feel like I am simply missing the point because I just don't get this.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 14:59
|
|
|
Hatebag posted:Haven't read this thread in awhile but here's something that came to me today ill accept it
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 15:00
|
|
|
multistability posted:*ostensible Marxist posting in the CSPAM crackping CIA thread* If there's anything that learning about the history of the USA from its inception to the present day has taught me, it's that the govt of the USA wouldn't go out of its way to murder black people Fair point. But I'm thinking about all the poor people who got drowned in basement apartments in NYC. Capital CARES about those with capital, landlords. It doesn't even have the human element of hate. Poor people are disposable kleenixs, the more disposable the better. Or at least that's what I was thinking But then again you have CIA reports talking about culling African populations being a good thing
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 15:19
|
|
|
Riot Bimbo posted:This was horrifically formatted and near unreadable so i did a quick job of it on the mobile app Nice. I've been plugging away at Pheonix Program while reading my new copy No Good Men Among the Living (I'll let the thread know if this is worth joining the list). loving horrifying so I've taken breaks. And its crazy how well that program of cataloging and creating a market in tortured civilians transplanted to Afghanistan.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 15:22
|
|
|
nut posted:sorry for dredging this up but this one has been bugging me since yesterday. What is the idea here? Vaccines do not work instantly and all literature that came out with vaccination suggested 2 weeks from the injection as to when they begin to take effect. This tweet talks about "anyone who gets covid, hospitalized or dies", but it's not 'getting covid or hospitalized/death', this is a study reporting covid and hospitalization/death. The difference is important because if you are waving around this data qualification as proof that people are dying from vaccinations and these numbers are being hidden, it ignores that this report is about people who had covid. If you wanted to make this point you would point to one of the limitations of the study, "Fourth, COVID-19-associated deaths included deaths occurring ≤60 days after a first SARS-CoV-2 positive test date; therefore, some COVID-19– associated deaths might have been from other causes (excluding trauma)", but to believe that's the rule vs the exception means you assume most of the people hospitalized/dying as "unvaccinated" are in the two week period after their first vaxx. it's true/correct that the COVID-19 vaccine does not work "instantly" - a single shot does not confer full protection, and even after your second shot, it takes 14 days before your immune response is maximized, to put it bluntly the problem is that the CDC, and the media taking their lead, is that at first they were willing to run with this three tiered distinction: unvaccinated, "partially vaccinated", and fully vaccinated, but then isn't consistent about applying it it's entirely reasonable to adopt a position of "you are only considered fully vaccinated if you're two weeks away from your second shot" (or three weeks away from your single shot of J&J), but if you start creating the "with first shot only" category as a way to try to make your vaccination progress bar look better, and then dump the definition when it comes to hospitalizations/deaths to err on the side of "people who got one shot are to be considered completely unvaccinated", then you leave yourself open to bad faith interpretation of your intentions
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 15:25
|
|
|
Shageletic posted:Fair point. But I'm thinking about all the poor people who got drowned in basement apartments in NYC. Capital CARES about those with capital, landlords. It doesn't even have the human element of hate. Poor people are disposable kleenixs, the more disposable the better. Oh no I don't disagree with anything you have said at all but as other people in this thread have pointed out, it's not that Capital / the govt of the USA / the CIA / whathaveyou merely don't care about black people (and poor people, and old people I guess) in a passive way it's that at a certain point they are actively malicious towards them as *gestures at the USA* all of this shows
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 15:28
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:it's true/correct that the COVID-19 vaccine does not work "instantly" - a single shot does not confer full protection, and even after your second shot, it takes 14 days before your immune response is maximized, to put it bluntly that makes a lot of sense and I'm not familiar with that inconsistency so I understand the frustration, but I should point out this specific report uses the three-tier system so I don't think that's a problem here 
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 15:29
|
|
|
nut posted:that makes a lot of sense and I'm not familiar with that inconsistency so I understand the frustration, but I should point out this specific report uses the three-tier system so I don't think that's a problem here oh well if the tweet was lying I can't account for that lol, I responded assuming the way it was described in the tweet was accurate
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 15:31
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:oh well if the tweet was lying I can't account for that lol, I responded assuming the way it was described in the tweet was accurate now u know why I feel crazy over it lol
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 15:33
|
|
|
Here is the report: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/pdfs/mm7034e5-H.pdfnut posted:that makes a lot of sense and I'm not familiar with that inconsistency so I understand the frustration, but I should point out this specific report uses the three-tier system so I don't think that's a problem here This is written just underneath those graphs: quote:
Importantly we should also note: quote:May 1–July 25, 2021 With CDC's definition of unvaccinated being anyone a. for whom no vaccination record data is available b. anyone within two weeks of receiving a first dose, the issue is that any hospitalization/deaths occurring within two weeks of a first dose are labeled unvaccinated and anyone for which there is no record is unvaccinated (rather than, say, just excluding them from your study...). This would both inflate the number of "unvaccinated" cases leading to hospitalization/death as well as provide cover for injuries if those injuries occurred within two weeks (most likely period), yes. My second quote there also matters because the period May 1 - July 25, 2021 is a period where majority of people were unvaccinated, especially if we use their definition. These nuances in the definition of "unvaccinated" are not given in the articles saying "5x more unvaccinated than vaccinated" in hospitals and such. And those, now slowing down, were being printed using date ranges even longer than (before) May 1 - July 25, 2021. It was my intention to forego responding to various posts directed at me regarding COVID-19 since I'm not particularly interested in making a two day thing out of it but as always I defer to the thread. I may be less responsive today, depends on my mood. Edit: little niggle, just noticed in your post nut you wrote "people who had COVID" - I would (personally) correct this to say "people who had tested positive for COVID-19" nut, you had asked about ivermectin MoA for COVID-19 treatment, see here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-020-01577-x Perry Mason Jar has issued a correction as of 15:58 on Sep 14, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 15:54
|
|
|
Shageletic posted:But then again you have CIA reports talking about culling African populations being a good thing Do you have any more information on this? I couldn’t find anything in a search.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 16:05
|
|
|
I think I understand more in the context of the rest of the stuff, I just had trouble seeing it in isolation. I definitely get leaning on the limits of quantification to blunt how much you can take from the study, but I'm not too convinced of then taking those limits as evidence of something not tested for, but I see where you're coming from. That nature paper is all in vitro, an obviously critical drug screen that happens for any therapeutic approach. But it's cited all over the place in the ivermectin lit right beside how difficult it has been to find in vivo support (a completely normal and common problem to all transitions from enzyme screens to the complexity of an organism). e: and ofc thanks for the response and don't worry I don't wanna talk about it anymore either
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 16:08
|
|
|
No worries, happy to. Thanks to all who wanted me free and various posters who said warm things about/to me, both here and privately. For what it's worth I have no quarrel with Son of Thunderbeast, although I did PM them to moan that I was goaded into continuing  still, I'm not bothered by it and think it was overall for the best. Cheers all
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 16:16
|
|
|
here's a fun one-two punch for ur morning https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fourth-stimulus-check-update-2021-09-14/ CBS News posted:Meanwhile, some states are creating their own form of stimulus checks. About two-thirds of California residents are likely to qualify for a "Golden State Stimulus" check via a new effort from Governor Gavin Newsom. That effort will provide $600 for low- and middle-income residents who have filed their 2020 tax returns. Florida and parts of Texas have authorized bonuses for teachers to help offset the impact of the pandemic." 600...600...hmm....that sounds familiar recently https://www.americanbanker.com/news/banks-escalate-fight-over-irs-reporting-in-biden-budget-plan (paywalled, but here https://outline.com/wa65cZ) Bloomberg News posted:The financial services sector is girding for an extended battle over a legislative proposal requiring banks and other institutions to report customer account data meant to bring in more federal tax dollars. Finally, someone is cutting down on all that tax evasion...
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 16:27
|
|
|
Tubgoat posted:Serious question: is there any facet of human civilisation that the CIA/capital has not gained 100% control of by this point? Even if other agencies wanted to rein them in, the CIA could just arrange for their detractors' families to die horribly in an unthinkable freak accident. I think it’s really important to understand the organizational distinctions between capital the system, those who profit from that system, those who define its minor eddies, and those that directed by that system. The CIA as an organization itself, even its larger cabal, is only a functioning element of the larger system. Their power is because they serve their usefulness as an organ, which would be lost if they expanded beyond their best usefulness. So the CIA can’t replace the police because in doing so it would be worse at both. But are there places free from the controls of capital? China is a good example of the complexity here. Regardless of if they succeed they clearly operate with some capacity to make changes counter to the overall interest of capitalism. That’s because capitalism isn’t a living being or even a mere organization, but a system of systems, implemented by organizations and individuals guided by worldviews, cultures, and artifacts. This creates complex organic responses to stimuli, but as history and nature shows us, those responses can often be ineffectual or counterproductive.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 17:04
|
|
|
The CIA has ALL of the resources it needs to usurp literally every level of power. INSLAW archives the wealthy's poo poo too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 17:32
|
|
|
https://mobile.twitter.com/RiceKun/status/1437478041479958531
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 17:32
|
|
|
Isn't that ironic.  I really don't know if the pedocartel or their pop culture machine is worse.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 17:33
|
|
|
isn't this ironic? e : gently caress
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 17:33
|
|
|
*cackling like Bryan Fury IRL*
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 17:34
|
|
|
Tubgoat posted:The CIA has ALL of the resources it needs to usurp literally every level of power. Nah, they can’t even take the NSA’s remit from them, they got their drone program slashed, they don’t even get to operate the spy sats. Because other organizations do it better and they’re all on the same team. Like as to my example, the CIA leadership deciding they wanted to replace the cops on the street would likely fail because the role the CIA plays for capital and the role the cops play are too important to let be ruined by the attempt. They don’t really have the power they only wield it towards the ends of the system at large. Focusing on the CIA is falling into the great man theory but for organizations.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 17:49
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:Focusing on the CIA is falling into the great man theory but for organizations. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 18:27
|
|
|
multistability posted:Right, but this was before the vaxxs. Why at the start of the pandemic were elderly black people in NY specifically overwhelmingly more likely to die than elderly white ppl in NY or elderly black people in other parts of the country? What was happening to elderly black people in New York specifically? Black people get shittier medical care, and that's one top of everyone who doesn't even have real access to medical care. If you're Black, lots of doctors think you're lying when you describe your symptoms. Even rich Black people like Serena Williams or Kanye's mom get killed or almost killed by doctors pretty frequently. One instance I remember was on the leaked Zoom call with Black leaders where Joe Biden says he's the craziest white boy around. One of the woman described how she had to fight to keep herself and her family in the hospital after they were diagnosed with COVID. This woman is literally part of the Black political elite in the country, which fulfills a critical role in making sure working class Black rebellion doesn't occur. And the system was still trying to kill her. And then after sharing this story Biden went on to talk about how there's a lot of biracial couples in commercials. Also people on vents die because it's a last ditch method. If they weren't put on vents they'd also be dead. Black people got put on vents not to kill them, but because they didn't get help earlier. It's hard to think someone is lying about their symptoms when they are barely conscious and have dangerously low blood oxygen levels.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 18:57
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1...ingawful.com%2F Say the line!!!
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 19:07
|
|
|
wow how dare you make fun of the 2nd time AOC's life was directly threatened this year
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 19:09
|
|
|
Setting up a system where Black people and other oppressed groups are sufficiently beatdown, sometimes by using mass death, without anyone in power having to put orders on paper is a key part the US system today. The ruling class and state have worked hard to obscure passive disinterest and active malice. This approach doesn't always work, and that's where the "spookier" methods of assassination, disappearances, and MKULTRA poo poo come in. And when Domestic Gladio can't get the job done, they just send out the cops to beat and shoot people.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 19:19
|
|
|
Atrocious Joe posted:Black people get shittier medical care, and that's one top of everyone who doesn't even have real access to medical care. If you're Black, lots of doctors think you're lying when you describe your symptoms. Even rich Black people like Serena Williams or Kanye's mom get killed or almost killed by doctors pretty frequently. Completely agree with all of this. The American healthcare system disproportionately kills Black people, poor people, old people, poor black people, poor old people, and poor old black people at a rate that can only be described as 'malicious'. Basically anyone who isn't useful to capital any more is put through the wood chipper. What happened to black people in ICUs and old people in nursing homes in NY at the start of the pandemic is just another instance of this. Atrocious Joe posted:Also people on vents die because it's a last ditch method. If they weren't put on vents they'd also be dead. Black people got put on vents not to kill them, but because they didn't get help earlier. It's hard to think someone is lying about their symptoms when they are barely conscious and have dangerously low blood oxygen levels. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200405/covid-19-daily-ventilator-protocols-questioned-physician-rights https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/928156 Well according to this whistleblower who set up an ICU in NY at the start of the pandemic it didn't necessarily have to be this way. For some reason in New York what they did was put people onto ventilators, cranked the pressure up to 11, and blew their lungs out, killing them. For some reason multistability has issued a correction as of 19:24 on Sep 14, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 19:21
|
|
|
Atrocious Joe posted:Setting up a system where Black people and other oppressed groups are sufficiently beatdown, sometimes by using mass death, without anyone in power having to put orders on paper is a key part the US system today. The ruling class and state have worked hard to obscure passive disinterest and active malice. remembering that time the mayor of Philadelphia dropped a bomb on a black liberation org for "squatting"
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 19:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 15:29 |
|
|
The MOVE bombing was a crime that's still remembered decades later Every New Left org that split over obscure sectarian fights or relationship drama is forgotten It is interesting how the most high profile attacks are often by local cops who don't have a lot of foresight or discipline. Hampton's assassination seems like Chicago Police getting pissed at the Feds going to slow, and the MOVE bombing was Philadelphia Police. These attacks are allowed to be memorialized and condemned because local cops are largely expendable. Meanwhile, federal assassinations of people like Malcolm X or Dr. King have never been acknowledged. The FBI is still entrapping people and lauded for it by liberals. The US Marshals are running an assassination program right now and it is receiving no attention from the press.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2021 19:40
|
|