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Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003
I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.
Soiled Meat
I have not seen the film yet.

I assume you have to know who Sharon Tate is and the Manson murders for the full experience. Often times Tarantino movies require pre-existing knowledge of other movies/events in order to get the full effect, because he pulls out the rug from under you and does the opposite of the film/event he’s referring to:

If you’ve seen Point of No Return before seeing Pulp Fiction, you think Harvey Keitel is going to kill Jules and Vincent.

If you saw Lolita before seeing Kill Bill 2, well, you already know Bill shoots her because of the opening of Kill Bill 1, but it’s extra heart-wrenching because you’re reminded how Humbert left Lolita alone at the end of that movie.

Hitler commits suicide in WW2, not so in Basterds

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Drunkboxer
Jun 30, 2007

Steve Yun posted:

I have not seen the film yet.

I assume you have to know who Sharon Tate is and the Manson murders for the full experience. Often times Tarantino movies require pre-existing knowledge of other movies/events in order to get the full effect, because he pulls out the rug from under you and does the opposite of the film/event he’s referring to:

If you’ve seen Point of No Return before seeing Pulp Fiction, you think Harvey Keitel is going to kill Jules and Vincent.

If you saw Lolita before seeing Kill Bill 2, well, you already know Bill shoots her because of the opening of Kill Bill 1, but it’s extra heart-wrenching because you’re reminded how Humbert left Lolita alone at the end of that movie.

Hitler commits suicide in WW2, not so in Basterds

Well I’d say this movie requires it a bit more than the first two examples. See the post wondering why the Tate scenes were even in the film.

As for the Hitler thing, if someone doesn’t know that then they have bigger problems than enjoying a movie.

Mokelumne Trekka
Nov 22, 2015

Soon.

I must have a nerd blind spot because I thought everyone even casual audiences expected a history-distorting twist. The whole set up is that Tate has neighbors who are fictional people. It's why I avoided spoilers like the plague.

turtlecrunch
May 14, 2013

Hesitation is defeat.

xrunner posted:

How were the Tate scenes? My friend I went with didn’t know the history either and found them pointless. Like the whole point I think is QT wanted you to feel horror movie style dread for her when she was on screen but does that work if you don’t know the real story or if you figure out the Inglorious Bastards plot twist is coming (which despite the flamethrower scene at the beginning totally setting it up I’m embarrassed to say I didn’t see coming)?

Also - Brad Pitt’s wife is supposed to be a wink to Natalie Wood, right? Or am I overthinking it?

I came away thinking the movie as a whole meandered around for 2 hours then suddenly found a plot in the last 30 minutes. The Tate scenes made me uncomfortable but it was because I did know about Polanski being a rapist.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007

xrunner posted:

Also - Brad Pitt’s wife is supposed to be a wink to Natalie Wood, right? Or am I overthinking it?

I got that vibe too, not necessarily that it was a nod to her specifically but that it was a nod to that type of Hollywood scandal.

cardedagain
Aug 28, 2006

Ardent Communist posted:

Nope, the best joke was definitely the guy asking Cliff "How's the wife?" when they're at the mexican restaurant

i actually missed that during my first screening and almost missed it again during my second screening but the audience erupted in laughter so i caught it at the last second. I'm slow.


Mokelumne Trekka posted:

I must have a nerd blind spot because I thought everyone even casual audiences expected a history-distorting twist. The whole set up is that Tate has neighbors who are fictional people. It's why I avoided spoilers like the plague.

i think if you don't know who Sharon Tate is, you probably won't consider who is fictional or not.

cardedagain fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Jul 29, 2019

cardedagain
Aug 28, 2006

:delete:

SweetMercifulCrap!
Jan 28, 2012
Lipstick Apathy
I think this film does not work if you don't at least know the gist of Charles Manson and the Manson family, and that they killed Sharon Tate. Even in the beginning of the movie, for some reason I was thinking that Sharon Tate became a member of the Manson family and committed a murder. It was only after a few of her scenes where I remembered "oh wait, no, she was murdered. Right."

cardedagain
Aug 28, 2006

turtlecrunch posted:

I came away thinking the movie as a whole meandered around for 2 hours then suddenly found a plot in the last 30 minutes. The Tate scenes made me uncomfortable but it was because I did know about Polanski being a rapist.

even though I've seen most of his films, i decided to look up Pulp Fiction's wikipedia page.
apparently that was originally going to be a short, except Hollywood doesn't fund shorts.
And Tarantino loves making movies and paying homage or sampling other films' works.
so I'm sure most of his movies could easily be condensed into shorts, but then he'd be a broke starving artist with minimal audience.

as far as the Tate scenes and "knowing Polanski was a rapist", did anyone in 1969 know he was? i don't know much of the history except some people were murdered
thanks to Manson, and Axl Rose wearing a "Charlie Dont Surf" shirt in the 90s, and didn't Trent Reznor record "the downward spiral" at Polanski's crib?


also, when i saw "August 8th" on the screen i thought of the NOFX song, but that's about Jerry Garcia, and his death (which was actually August 9th, 1995) but apparently that had nothing to do with it at all. but it did make me think of the hippies again.
but the lyrics include "a bunch of hippies crying" so in a sense it could unintentionally tie in to the murders n the movie, but not in real life. all in some alternate reality.

cardedagain fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Jul 29, 2019

LanceHunter
Nov 12, 2016

Beautiful People Club


Drunkboxer posted:

Well I’d say this movie requires it a bit more than the first two examples. See the post wondering why the Tate scenes were even in the film.

Yeah, the more history you know the better it is. I already mentioned how Manson’s visit to the Polanski residence was almost word-for-word historically accurate, making it seem more likely Tarantino might be trying to keep to the real history. Or how the real-life Clem (the guy who knifed Cliff’s tire in the movie) actually killed a stuntman on Spahn ranch.

Like, if it were possible to make everyone listen to the entire 10-part You Must Remember This series on Charles Manson’s Hollywood...

Gooble Rampling
Jan 30, 2004

Great article here about the cinematography and general filming of the movie. I wasn't really looking for it as I watched in the theater, but of course they set up things like period appropriate lighting rigs.
https://ascmag.com/articles/back-in-time-making-once-upon-a-time-in-hollywood

Drunkboxer
Jun 30, 2007

cardedagain posted:


as far as the Tate scenes and "knowing Polanski was a rapist", did anyone in 1969 know he was? i don't know much of the history except some people were murdered thanks to Manson, and Axl Rose wearing a "Charlie Dont Surf" shirt in the 90s, and didn't Trent Reznor record "the downward spiral" at Polanski's crib?

Nah all that poo poo went down after the murders.

LanceHunter posted:


Like, if it were possible to make everyone listen to the entire 10-part You Must Remember This series on Charles Manson’s Hollywood...

Yeah if anyone wants to learn more about the events that’s a good way to do it.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!
Is age a factor in one's familiarity with the Manson killings? As a dude in his thirties with no special interest in the late 60's or serial killers, I still had a solid knowledge of the events. I just figured everyone knew about it.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Mokelumne Trekka posted:

I must have a nerd blind spot because I thought everyone even casual audiences expected a history-distorting twist. The whole set up is that Tate has neighbors who are fictional people. It's why I avoided spoilers like the plague.

After Basterds, I had a vague expectation that things would go ahistorically. I just wasn’t sure how far along the path we would get before things diverged. I really, really didn’t want to see a recreation of the Manson “family” breaking into the Polanski house.

Origami Dali posted:

Is age a factor in one's familiarity with the Manson killings? As a dude in his thirties with no special interest in the late 60's or serial killers, I still had a solid knowledge of the events. I just figured everyone knew about it.

I’m in my 20s and also knew the basic details before seeing the movie. I kind of expected people would know, at the very least, Tate dies in the end.

QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jul 29, 2019

The D in Detroit
Oct 13, 2012
There will always be the people who are super into serial killers and true crime poo poo and will know about Manson.

LanceHunter
Nov 12, 2016

Beautiful People Club


Drunkboxer posted:

Nah all that poo poo went down after the murders.

Yeah, Polanski was a creep but there were a ton of creeps around Hollywood at the time. (Like, one way that Manson and his crew got so deep into the Hollywood scene was because he’d make the girls in his cult gently caress guys.) Turns our a steady diet of cocaine has a negative effect on one’s sense of morality.

Philthy
Jan 28, 2003

Pillbug

Origami Dali posted:

Is age a factor in one's familiarity with the Manson killings? As a dude in his thirties with no special interest in the late 60's or serial killers, I still had a solid knowledge of the events. I just figured everyone knew about it.

In my 40s and the only reason I knew anything about it is because I listened to an Industrial band named "Spahn Ranch" back in the early 90s and thought it was a weird loving name, so I looked it up and went down that rabbit hole. They never taught this in my high school, nor have I seen any Manson docs available on TV really. The most I knew pre was that Manson was a whacked out cult leader guy and some murders were involved. It's not something you really bring up to talk about in a casual convo or otherwise. I didn't hang out with enough goths, I guess.

Philthy fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Jul 29, 2019

Ardent Communist
Oct 17, 2010

ALLAH! MU'AMMAR! LIBYA WA BAS!
Anyone who is looking for something to cover the manson movies in a stylized way wouldn't do too bad to watch Aquarius, it's on Canadian netflix at least and it's a pretty good show, shows both Manson and David Duchovny as a police detective who gets entangled with him, as well as interactions with the Black Panthers. It's a pretty entertaining show, and it sticks to the real history close enough that I was filled with a great trepidation whilst watching this film.

As for that joke at the Mexican restaurant, unless I am proved wrong with a clip or the script, I'm going to think it's my way, since it's way funnier and I'm not sure if someone who killed their wife would go to a wife joke with a friend, whereas a friend would totally make that joke if he knew him well enough and enough time had passed.

SeANMcBAY
Jun 28, 2006

Look on the bright side.



I loved this movie and feel like it may be one of my favorite Tarantino movies once I see it again. The scene of Leo with the little girl actor was top tier cinema.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007

SleepCousinDeath posted:

There will always be the people who are super into serial killers and true crime poo poo and will know about Manson.

If anything, True Crime has really been having a moment over the past few years, I'm genuinely surprised how many people in the thread knew next to nothing about Manson too.

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...
What was the deal with maya hawkes character

LesterGroans
Jun 9, 2009

It's funny...

You were so scary at night.

Alan Smithee posted:

What was the deal with maya hawkes character

She got cold feet.

Tarantino's fetish strikes again!

pospysyl
Nov 10, 2012



I'm glad that Tarantino has dropped the n-word in favor of more socially acceptable racial slurs. He's gotten woke!

FLIPADELPHIA
Apr 27, 2007

Heavy Shit
Grimey Drawer

Alan Smithee posted:

What was the deal with maya hawkes character

No idea if this was intentional or not but her character leaving was the moment I realized the next few minutes would not be a telling of actual events, or even close to it. It broke the suspense for me, but in a weird way I liked it. After that I just let myself relax and enjoy the ride.

Jose Oquendo
Jun 20, 2004

Star Trek: The Motion Picture is a boring movie
if you get a chance, check out the soundtrack. There's a good chunk of it that simulates the radio in the movie. It has the songs, ads, and DJ intro/outros setup perfectly just like in the movie. It might have been my ears playing tricks on me, but it sounded like the added a little bit of static to the songs to make it sound even more like radio.

It's really cool.


edit: When I saw the movie Saturday, I thought that yeah, it was good, but all his movies are. After a couple days unpacking it in my head (which I don't do too often), I think it's really, really loving good.

SolarFire2
Oct 16, 2001

"You're awefully cute, but unfortunately for you, you're made of meat." - Meat And Sarcasm Guy!
Helter Skelter is a great book, y'all. If you want a firsthand look at the Manson incidents, you'd do very well to check it out.

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008



Midgetskydiver posted:

No idea if this was intentional or not but her character leaving was the moment I realized the next few minutes would not be a telling of actual events, or even close to it. It broke the suspense for me, but in a weird way I liked it. After that I just let myself relax and enjoy the ride.

It's actually based on a real event. One of the girls who went did forget her knife. But Tex told her they'd just use a kitchen knife from the house. So it's the first real part of divergence and where, if you know the events, you should realize something is up.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Alan Smithee posted:

What was the deal with maya hawkes character

Linda Kasabian. In real life, she was a new recruit to the Manson “family” and allegedly tried to abort the murders at the last moment. When the others realized what she was doing, they ordered her to wait by the car while they went inside. She claimed at the trial she thought about driving away but was worried about her child, who was still on the ranch.

She later became a witness for the prosecution and got the worst of both worlds, with Manson threatening to send someone to kill her and the press vilifying her for being associated with Manson at all.

GoutPatrol
Oct 17, 2009

*Stupid Babby*

Gooble Rampling posted:

Great article here about the cinematography and general filming of the movie. I wasn't really looking for it as I watched in the theater, but of course they set up things like period appropriate lighting rigs.
https://ascmag.com/articles/back-in-time-making-once-upon-a-time-in-hollywood

This is a really cool article. I had never seen the kind of rig you put on a car to get that kind of front shot on a real moving vehicle before. And the picture of all the huge lights on top of the freeway...that looks like a gigantic undertaking to get something no one would ever think about in the theater.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!
Well the first moment of real divergence is when a drunk Leo with margarita pitcher still in hand was screaming at the car full of hippies to get their shitbox off of his street.

Lol, I want to see this again now.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Drunkboxer posted:

Well I’d say this movie requires it a bit more than the first two examples. See the post wondering why the Tate scenes were even in the film.

As for the Hitler thing, if someone doesn’t know that then they have bigger problems than enjoying a movie.

I was coming out of Basterds and some young dude behind me said "drat I didn't know Hitler went out like that" and maybe he was just really good at deadpan delivery but it felt earnest and every once in a while I remember that and smile.

AccountSupervisor
Aug 3, 2004

I am greatful for my loop pedal

GoutPatrol posted:

This is a really cool article. I had never seen the kind of rig you put on a car to get that kind of front shot on a real moving vehicle before. And the picture of all the huge lights on top of the freeway...that looks like a gigantic undertaking to get something no one would ever think about in the theater.

DPs, grips and gaffers on productions of this size are loving wizards, always.

DeadFatDuckFat
Oct 29, 2012

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


cardedagain posted:

i actually missed that during my first screening and almost missed it again during my second screening but the audience erupted in laughter so i caught it at the last second. I'm slow.

Oh man I thought that it was Dalton who said that to the acquaintance he saw at the table, in order to gently caress with him since the guy was there with a girl who was presumably not his wife.

Edit: nm someone already mentioned this on the last page

DeadFatDuckFat fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Jul 30, 2019

JethroMcB
Jan 23, 2004

We're normal now.
We love your family.

Gooble Rampling posted:

Great article here about the cinematography and general filming of the movie. I wasn't really looking for it as I watched in the theater, but of course they set up things like period appropriate lighting rigs.
https://ascmag.com/articles/back-in-time-making-once-upon-a-time-in-hollywood

Holy poo poo, every bit of this is insane. Such attention to detail, so much work for shots that last maybe 30 seconds.

The production still from the FBI sequence highlights the one big issue I could never get over - all of the "TV" stuff just looked too drat good for the era. The camera moved a lot and individual shots had personality and thought put into them, instead of simply pointing at the action and letting it roll. I did not realize that some of that FBI footage was taken from a real episode (With Burt Reynolds in the Rick Dalton role, no less!) I'd love to see the real thing and compare, maybe I'm being too hard on classic TV.

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008



JethroMcB posted:

Holy poo poo, every bit of this is insane. Such attention to detail, so much work for shots that last maybe 30 seconds.

The production still from the FBI sequence highlights the one big issue I could never get over - all of the "TV" stuff just looked too drat good for the era. The camera moved a lot and individual shots had personality and thought put into them, instead of simply pointing at the action and letting it roll. I did not realize that some of that FBI footage was taken from a real episode (With Burt Reynolds in the Rick Dalton role, no less!) I'd love to see the real thing and compare, maybe I'm being too hard on classic TV.

No you're right. But that's the point. He's glorifying that era of TV and doing his idealized, loving version of it. Not how it really was.

The_Rob
Feb 1, 2007

musicals are garbage
I really liked this movie a lot. It seemed kind of personal for Tarantino. It wanted to embrace and respect the fantasy and fairy tale of Hollywood and movie making, but there’s nothing but disgusting poo poo lurking in the background. You have Pitt playing someone who pretty much never suffers any consequences no matter what he’s done. Leo is this kind of pathetic weirdo who only gets by because he pretends the hardest. Leo can legit burn a person to a crisp and they just ask him a couple questions hell you don’t even know of the poo poo that happened even happened because you literally see hard edits during scenes to drive home that this is pretty much being edited by the person telling you this truly unbelievable story.

Something i appreciated was that the whole movie the only violence we saw was super silly tv violence so when the real violence hits it really drives home how brutal it all was.

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...
Was the western set owner based on a real person?

HashtagGirlboss
Jan 4, 2005

Alan Smithee posted:

Was the western set owner based on a real person?

If you’re asking about Spahn Ranch - then yes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Spahn

quote:

Manson persuaded Spahn to permit "the Family" to live at his ranch. Manson ordered the women in the group to have sex with the then nearly blind 80-year-old.

ElectricSheep
Jan 14, 2006

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.
Bonus factoid- Squeaky Fromme (the redhead played by Dakota Fanning) was called "Squeaky" by George because of the noise she'd make when he touched her

then she tried and utterly failed to shoot Gerald Ford six years later

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Coffee And Pie
Nov 4, 2010

"Blah-sum"?
More like "Blawesome"

ElectricSheep posted:

Bonus factoid- Squeaky Fromme (the redhead played by Dakota Fanning) was called "Squeaky" by George because of the noise she'd make when he touched her

then she tried and utterly failed to shoot Gerald Ford six years later

Yeah, that was actually almost as funny as that one Brad Pitt line

quote:

While Fromme pointed the gun at Ford, several people heard a "metallic click" sound.[6] As the red-robed Fromme shouted, "It wouldn't go off",[8] Secret Service agent Larry Buendorf grabbed the gun, forced it from Fromme's hand, and brought her to the ground.[2] On the ground, Fromme said, "It didn't go off. Can you believe it? It didn't go off".[8]

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