Crazy ex or mom? You decide! posted:

Good evening everyone,
I wanted to reach out and see if anyone else gets to the point in their journey where they begin to feel numb? I continue to want to have a relationship with my ex very much, however, I cannot control his side of the equation and honestly without ANY communication in several months now, am beginning to feel numb. Not like I have forgotten him, but more like I can’t take anymore and while it used to tear me up inside, I am just…well, NUMB. I still pray for my ex daily, I still continue to reach out to him, something inside of me has changed, don’t really know how else to describe it. Has anyone else been on a similar journey? Is this unique to men only?

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The thing that has helped me the most on this forum has been reading peoples’ stories. I thought it would be nice to have a thread where people posted a short description of what cause their estrangement and why if they know.

Mine isn’t a full estrangement, but a strained relationship due to parental alienation by my ex starting when my son was in grade school. I was the ‘old biddie’ that my son didn’t have to obey or respect so by the time we got divorced, I had to let him stay with his dad. Today, 30 years later, we have a relationship that is solely at his convenience. He doesn’t abuse me, just really doesn’t have much interest me even though I think we’re a lot more alike than he realizes.

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Good question. Guess it comes down to the evasive “why” we never are privy to. In my case, it all came down to money, and convenience. When we spent over 100,000 dollars on babysitting newborn twins, food, clothes, toys, gas money, fun me net, medical etc. and were tapped out, we were no longer if use. Their house went into foreclosure, they needed her brother to co-sign a car loan, but always kept money for the self absorbed entertainment. I remember one day her buying the then popular Hatchable toy for each of the GC. 200.00 dollars when the didn’t have the necessities. Buying love. When I called her out, she slammed the door and I was of no use., spoiled brats is all I can say. Unfortunately, I played right into her hand., No more.,Mjmom

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My only child,ED, went off to college and overnight turned into someone we didn’t know. She became an alcoholic, slept with anyone and everyone. She was doing drugs while maintaining excellent grades. She has never had to study much as her education has always came easy. Once while home for a rare weekend she went to a party and called me at 2am to pick her up. I went to the party and a group of young people opened my passenger door and shoved her in the car, reached in and buckled her in, then started screaming take off, take off. I drove away and was going 40 mph when she took off her seatbelt and tried jumping out of my car. She had on a new pair of boots and the street gravel ate a hole in her boot the size of my fist. I had no place to pull over and was holding her in the car by her shirt that finally tore from her body. She was screaming, I want to go back to the party over and over. I finally pulled over and told her I would take her home to put on fresh clothes and take her back. Once home I woke my husband and he pinned her in the backseat and we took her to the hospital. My elderly mother only came to visit once a year because we lived 8 hours away. Mostly we would visit her. My mother was so traumatized she never came back and passed a few years later.

This type of situations were weekly (yes weekly) and over a four year period I no longer tried talking to her about her issues and no longer tried counseling. I just screamed at her every time she pulled her stunts. After graduating college she moved home and was still driving and drinking a car in out name, she didn’t care if she killed someone or if we lost everything we worked for. She lived at home and had men in our house overnight drinking like a fish and lied about anything and everything. It finally came to a head and I whopped her in the arm. She had friends move her out while I was at work and sent me an email that she moved out because of my hitting her and screaming at her. I hit her once. It is what it is. Now I am physically and emotionally abusive. My husband is accused of watching her get abused and not helping her.

She has a new group of friends every 6 months and is searching for happiness not realizing where happiness lives. We really have not had a relationship since she started college but have been estranged since college graduation. It’s an off/on estrangement, mostly off. She pretends she wants to reconcile when she is out of friends or needs something then it back to the same game. I no longer jump through hoops. She has never answered my calls or responded to my text but gets mad if I don’t respond right away. I listen when she gives that rare call, I don’t ask questions. I am not sure why I even answer. It’s fake and I’m being set up when she does. I’ve seen her twice this year with hardly any conversation and her one call she talked for an hour, then asked me to take her dog. The call was setting me up to take her dog. Years of estrangement, this site and Done with the Crying has healed me in so many ways, I still have more healing to do.

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rattlesnake, I’m terrible sorry you’re going through this.

You make a very good point that the last couple of generations of parents have so wanted to maintain a good relationship and/or friendship with our children that we’ve enabled and cow-towed to their every whim. We’ve gone from children being seen and not heard to the children being the focus of everything to the point in my case, my ex would buy our son a new bike and other things before paying the mortgage–and we couldn’t afford it. Another example of how pampered today’s kids are is my neighbor getting very upset at some friends of hers who were helping her dehoard her house years ago when they asked her 18 year-old son to put his dishes in the dishwasher! No wonder so many young people are emotional cripples when they’re too special to even to expected to do the most basic chores around the house.

I also believe we live in such a rich society that the last two generations have lacked nothing materially as people will go hopelessly into debt and live beyond their means to give their kids everything so the kids never learn to work for things like my generation had to before everyone could get credit the day they turned 18. I agree we’re buying our kids love–I do it, not to that great of an extend as my son doesn’t ask for much thankfully.

One other thing I think has changed and is contributing to the epidemic of estrangements is groups encouraging people to cut themselves off from their families. I’m all for online support groups and have been in several, but I was reading an article last night about a group on Reddit for children of narcissists that has 97,000 members. Young people are being encouraged to remove themselves from anyone they have an issue with, and to label them a narcissist. I had my issues with my mother when I was young and would turn my phone off for a few days while I calmed down after she did something that offended me, but no more. Now kids permanently estrange themselves over not getting their own way calling it ‘abuse.’ Everyone is a victim, comes from an abusive family and has a narcissistic mother who is toxic in their world.

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I don’t believe there was any one thing that caused the estrangement with our daughter.

She was a tough child from birth: colicky until she could walk, in need of constant stimulation, reading by the age of 3, and socially awkward. We started neuropsych testing in first grade, and because of her high IQ and reading abilities, she was placed in gifted classes, however she lacked the executive functioning skills (i.e., organization and internal discipline) to do well. A girl with a 145 IQ who could read at a 12th grade level got consistently low report card grades because she couldn’t find her homework. On top of all this, she was bullied.

So she became “a problem” that needed fixing. I use quotes, because I think this is what she perceived. I never saw a problem; I saw my child who needed help. My role became warrior mom and champion. I took on everyone – the school, the doctors, the bullies – and I tried as best I could to make her life easier. I found the best counselors, the tutors, even groups that taught social skills. You name it, we tried it.

Fast forward to 2015. We helped ED rent an apartment to live independently. She couldn’t complete community college, so her jobs were unskilled. But she seemed to be on her feet. Little did we know she began experiencing severe depressive episodes, unable to get out of bed, and lost jobs, got fired from jobs, etc. She never told us until it was all too late, and of course by then she was an adult and we could have zero to do with her medical decisions.

My husband got a job offer that meant a move, and instead of selling our house, we asked ED if she would like to live there – free, in exchange for caretaking (calling plumbers, for example, or making sure the lawn mowing svc came) – and she agreed. She moved in with her partner, her first serious relationship, knowing what the parameters would be. The biggest being, we didn’t know when we would return, but we would give them ample notice to find another place to live.

Our checkins about the state of the home gradually began to be very contentious. She often would not reply to my simple questions of “How is everything going,” or “did you check this that or the other thing?” Then I would have to hound with emails to get answers and she would get angry at that too.

In 2017, we learned we would be returning in the spring of 2018. In Oct I gave them notice for an April move date. Things went to hell in a handbasket. I think ED never told her partner that I gave notice in Oct, because it became a crisis for them in Feb to start looking for an apt. She now tells everyone we “kicked them out.” Everyone meaning my sister and my husband’s siblings. Right before we moved back, we got the “no contact” letter. Since then, I have sent along a few things they left behind. Those were returned to me unopened. As was a bday card.

I have always known who she is. As I said at the beginning of this post, it was never easy. I worry about them though, living hand to mouth, living in a sort of fantasy land (everyone is out to get them etc. – which, believe me, is a mindset I am sure I had a hand in creating through my warrior mom role) , and completely isolated. It’s easy for me to blame the partner, and I think she had a good deal to do with ED making the leap to no contact, but they feed off each other and it would be wrong of me to not acknowledge ED’s role or my own.

All that said, I’m in a pretty good place. This may sound callous, but without the drama in my life, I am much more at peace. However, I can’t shake some of the worry, and in the end she will always be my child.

MasBrillante posted:

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Hi everyone. I’m new around here and, I guess like must of you, I never expected to need a place like this (thanks Sheri!)

I have one child – son, aged nearly 32 – we aren’t estranged (yet) but I sometimes think that it’s only because I bite my tongue all the time that we aren’t – if I said the wrong thing, that would be that.

The final straw for me was not getting a reply to a call – something really small but it’s the straw that’s broken this camel’s back. You know what it’s like – you call (I hardly ever do – usually text and even then not often – once a month, maybe) but we hadn’t spoken in four months and I decided to risk it…so you call, and you know, you can feel, that he’s screening his calls, sees it’s only you and thinks – it’s only mum, can’t be bothered with that, whatever. So I kind of knew he wouldn’t answer the actual call but I did expect the courtesy of a reply over the weekend, then I thought maybe he was busy but he’d call on the way home from work on the Monday, like he used to…nothing. This went on for four weeks. He did call eventually, left a voicemail which I replied to as soon as I saw it and nothing again…so more than a month on, we still haven’t actually spoken to each other…

Now, I feel bad talking about this as if it’s a problem because I know some of you have had really bad experiences and maybe no contact from your kids for years. But this little thing has been like having my rose tinted spectacles knocked off my face and all of a sudden I can see for the first time the actual, real relationship I have with my adult child – and it’s not anything like the one I hoped for. I walk on eggshells all the time, don’t be too motherly, try to keep things light and it’s still wrong. How did we end up like this? We were so close (I thought) when he was little. I look at photographs of him as a child and I literally cannot see any connection with the man he is today. It’s like they are two different people.

I haven’t explained things very well but I’m looking forward to talking things over with you here, sharing and supporting 

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My 37 yr old daughter has become more and more estranged over the last 3 years. The worst of it seemed to start when she moved in with her boyfriend 2+ yrs ago. It’s not a complete estrangement in terms of communication. We do talk, primarily if I call her. But there’s no feeling of family or relationship. She will likely call today — late in the day — with a 2-5 minute ‘Merry Christmas’ call. It’s just become so hollow that I wonder why she bothers at all. I have a 12 yr old granddaughter who seems to have been taught that there’s no reason to communicate with Grandma. She may text a “thank you” today for the Christmas gift, and she may not. If she does, it will likely be just that — “thank you” — absolutely nothing more.

It’s so hard to know what to say or do in this situation. I know many people would be thrilled to have the little connection I do have, but it is .005% of what we’re culturally conditioned to expect from a familial tie with our children and grandchildren. I’m ready to cut that final thread that binds us if this is all I will ever get. I would rather have nothing at all from them than to have this constant disappointment and grieving.

Yolomon Wayne posted:

If it takes you 4 weeks to call someone you care about back, you dont care about them at all.
Hth.

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Hi. I’m estranged 8 months on Mothers Day. I was always a single parent. My DD was diagnosed with autism at a young age and so the fight with service providers began. Being single had it’s pro’s, no one contradicted me. Besides that, when I did meet someone my DD would find a reason not to like them and encourage me to end the relationship which I did. Not straight away because she said to but I did. Moving on….my fight paid off. DD got a place at Uni but made the brave decision to leave after completing the first term. I was disappointed but also admired her braveness.

She came home, left home, was asked by landlord to leave shared house due to her behaviour making the others feel unsafe, came home, left home SILENCE.

I did get a double edged text on Christmas Day, along the lines of, it is not healthy for me to be around you when you are drinking. My FAULT was drinking to excess on occasion. Lets just say that service providers play dirty, real dirty. I have no family close by, I’ve estranged myself from my mother because she was bad to me but started bullying my daughter too. I’ve recently reached out to her, now knowing the pain of estrangement but I will, for the foreseeable, only communicate via email. So I drank too much at times. It was my only vice that my DD used against me. Because of her diagnosis, I was her Carer too and lived on benefits. It’s a soul destroying way of having to live but I applied to charities, jumped through service providers hoops to enable funds for my DD to go on all school trips, attend Theatre Arts class etc etc. She got everything she needed and a bit of what she wanted that I could afford.

One day she said….we are poor. Get a job. I was aghast. We have a roof over our head. The bills are paid. We have food in the cupboards. In comparison to many, we are rich. I’ve always lived on a tight budget. My DD was my priority. Now she is gone.

To add to that, prior to her coming in to the world, I was a soldier for 13 years. So, in a way, I have been main stream socially isolated since 1988. I’ve reached out for help. I have good days and not so good days. I may have PTSD, I do have anxiety. I think we’ve found a medication that works without awful side effect, for me. I’ve physical injuries. I have a ‘self destruct’ streak in me.

I’ve bought the book. I’ll get to it on good days. I wasn’t blameless. From a young age, I recognised that my DD was manipulative. Soooooooo many unanswered questions. Only today I remembered being out in the evening with a veteran. I was driving so wasnt drinking, of course. My DD phoned me and asked if she could stop over at home. I said yes and agreed to pick her up at 10pm. At 9:20, she calls again, saying where are you? Yup, I was always there for her when she needed me but she’s dropped me like a ton of bricks’

This has made me ill but I’m fighting it but find that I’ve got many years of regular human experience to catch up which I find both annoying and amusing at times. Some people have the strangest idea’s and oh!!! God forbid you challenge their opinion lol,

So I’m on my own, not claiming benefits, by the way because I didnt have the mental strength to jump through the systems hoops. living off a very recent windfall, which has reduced the pressure massively, trying to find a job in a market that is double dutch to me, with Mothers Day around the corner…… I do wonder if the DD would be keen to reacquaint herself with me, if she knew I had money in the bank??? Just a thought. We are allowed those you know. Good and bad. They’re just thoughts.

Thanks for reading through all my disjointed waffle. Feel free to ask for clarity. Just had to do this before I persuaded myself otherwise.

Hugs to you all  x Tomorrow is another day and will be better 

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Hello, everyone, I am happy to be here but sad that I am at the same time. Mine is kind of a build up to walking away.

My daughter who is 24 was a beautiful, smart, empathetic heart of gold when she was younger. When she turned 16 she ran away to her biological father (who had only seen her 4 times from the age of 4) in order to get him to send her to another state to be with a boy she met online. I was shocked and angry when I found out what had happened. She was supposed to be spending 4 weeks with her grandparents for summer vacation. I tried to stop it but was too late. I had no contact with her for months as I was kept in the dark about where she went, who she was with, etc. Finally, she calls and tells me she is in college in a specific town in this state. Any attempts at asking her for more verification ended up with her hanging the phone up and more months of no contact.
Faster forward 2 1/2 yrs. She shows up back in our lives and starts telling stories of how she had a boyfriend there that kept her hidden, abused her physically and emotionally, etc. We let her come home. Her new boyfriend asked to stay with us while he found a job, we allowed it. She disappears a month into them staying and leaves him here. I find out she’s cheating on him but her boyfriend is locking himself in his room and won’t speak to us. Finally, almost 3 weeks into this new drama, I text her and tell her to come and take care of the situation like an adult or I would tell him the truth. (He became suicidal) She shows up, starts screaming and yelling, convinces him we are all lying (guy she is cheating with is outside in her car) and she leaves. He tells us the accusations she used to stay with him and his parents so they wouldn’t send her back to me. She claims that I abused her physically and emotionally with very elaborate stories that were simply not true. Everyone is shocked. No one can believe she would say such horrible things and lie about her parents. He then tells me he is the boyfriend that she had accused of abusing her. He leaves. I hear nothing for a year. I start receiving mail at my home address to her with his last name from government organizations. I track her down and tell her I have her mail and asked her if she married him. She claims she has not and he just puts that down. Another year of lies and it comes out finally that she did marry him. She stole a credit card from his mother and spent thousands and claimed she was just out to get her because she didn’t want to be with her son anymore. A year later admits that was a lie and she really did use their cc to spend thousands.

Fast forward another year. I am trying to put the lies behind me. I tell her how it made me feel and how badly it hurt me and her dad (husband that raised her since she was 3). She claims she is sorry and states she did it because his parents found out her age and threatened to call us and have her sent back. She claimed these horrible things happened at my hand because she knew they would try and protect her. I set boundaries of what I would and would not tolerate and I tried to start again with a relationship with her. I was hurt, angry and broken but I was willing to give it chance to mend.

This most recent one was a pregnancy for the last 42 weeks. She called me 3-6 times a day to tell me about new experiences, doctor appointments, clothing, etc. I really thought our relationship had finally healed but I was horribly wrong. She claimed at first that it was twins. She claimed to be attacked by armed men and robbed and even put makeup on her face (she is trained in profession makeup) showing bruising, etc. The end of january she claims there are 3 babies and she got pregnant at 2 different times and that is why one is so much smaller and it may have developmental issues. She claimed 3 weeks ago that the midwife couldn’t find the heartbeats of the twins. She’s frantic and crying. Refusing to go to the ER even with me begging her. She stated that the doctor told her on the phone to make the decision of continuing the pregnancy or having them removed and hung up. I knew this did not sound right. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. 10 minutes later she claims she felt them kick so all was well again and drama averted. She claimed she was in the hospital being induced this past week… got to a 6 and stalled, 7 stalled, 9 stalled. Claimed her husband gave her a disease and were monitoring her. Claimed she had emergency c-section and sent me pictures of 3 babies. All a lie. Every single bit of it was a lie. She got the photos from websites and sent them to me. Elaborate stories of how sore she was, how her staples hurt and she couldn’t walk, etc. My sister did a reverse search on the pictures and found all of them, including the ultrasounds (most) were from the internet. When confronted she gets defensive and states we have no right to questions her and we crossed a line. Says “I’m sorry” and then gets angry that no one believes her now and still saying she is pregnant. Her husband contacted me after the events last night because he was confused about the situation and started telling me he’s never seen her naked, heard heartbeats, no doc appointments or midwife appointments and no proof ever. Says she locks the doors when she goes to the bathroom and refuses to be intimate with him. States she was never in the hospital at all, not once even though she had everyone believing she was there for 6 days. He is questioning the pregnancy now. When asked to show her tummy or proof she screams, yells and accuses people of being against her and demands they leave or she does. She deleted everyone, including family, from her social media accounts and blocked them including grandparents, aunts, me and her dad, etc.

I cannot do this any longer. I love my child with all my heart and soul but I cannot keep over-looking this type of behavior. It is destroying my family. I plan to purchase the book. I am hoping it will help me deal with this but I realized last night that as I lay in bed that her constant lies and drama are destroying me. The energy I spent over the last few years is exhausting, heartbreaking and destroy me physically and mentally. I hope I am doing the right thing. I sent her an email (only thing not blocked, I hope) saying I will always love her but I cannot have a relationship like this with her any longer even if she is my child. I don’t know if this is the right thing to do but I have tried talking to her, reasoning with her, getting her help, confronting her, ignoring it and nothing has worked. I don’t understand what happened. Where did it all go so wrong?

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An update: She was confronted by her husband who demanded she show him paperwork and her tummy. She refused, screamed, cried, etc. Finally, she came clean. It was all a lie! Every bit of it. I am stunned, hurt, angry and even more convinced she has some type of mental health issue.

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

...are they imagining the one-year-old putting together and mailing this card on the DL without his parents' knowledge?

MasBrillante posted:

Going to manipulate people into calling me so they can’t CONTROL me with text message CRUMBS.

MasBrillante posted:

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Hello to you all, I am new here and I’m thankful to have found this forum. I’m sure like a lot of you I was desperate for help when I googled what ever it was I googled, I don’t remember. But whatever it was it brought me here. Please forgive my punctuation when I share, as I am not that good at it. I have made a few attempts to try and introduce myself a couple of times but I have found it isn’t easy. I allow my feelings to get way ahead of myself and then realize I need to cut it shorter. At which point I start over. It is awfully hard. I’ll try to give just a brief description for now of what is going on with my ED. Actually…I don’t even know? I have been a mess all day because nobody has heard from her since Saturday when she talked to my sister. She had even sent me a text asking me to please tell her daughters (my granddaughters), that she loves them very much. This didn’t alarm me because we are all aware of the retaliation and hatefulness my ex-son-in-law is capable of even to my husband and I even though we supported him financially and emotionally during their divorce and custody. It matters nothing to him on how we’ve embraced him and supported him as well as our daughter through out their relationship, It seems even now as we tried to support our daughter this time around that somehow we always seem to get the kick me I’m stupid sign placed on our backs. And it hurts. Anyway, today I felt pretty close to a break down but here I am still kicking and trying to find out information about my daughter. I’m thinking of calling the police dept., just to do a welfare check on my granddaughters and I’m not sure what I’m going to do after that. Sitting around just waiting is driving me insane but I felt it might do me some good to share at least a little for now. I have so much I need to get out but it’s hard not to get carried away. Once I have a little more control over my emotions I may have a bit more control of my typing. HaHa

Thank you for listening

MasBrillante posted:

This was her first post on the site:

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Hi, I am new here. My daughter, my once best friend, has refused to have anything to do with me for almost 3 years. She just turned 27. Much of why she has shut me out is my own fault. That fact haunts me every day. Three years ago, my daughter, her husband, and our baby grandson (our first grandchild) lived 20 minutes away, having moved from 300 miles away to be closer to us. I would pick her and the baby up several times a week for various outings. Every Thursday I picked them up and brought them to our home to do laundry. Our son-in-law was laid off mid summer of 2016. He couldn’t really find another job so they made the decision to move to his relative’s home 600 miles away. I was devastated. I didn’t handle that move well at all. All was still well between us. We visited when we could. But, two and a half years ago life fell apart for all of us. We got a late night call from our son-in-law telling us that our daughter had asked him to go with our grandson to his parents for a few nights because she wasn’t sure she loved him anymore. I was furious. My daughter has never really followed through with anything–she changed high schools 3 times, she changed college majors twice before eventually just dropping out… I finally got a hold of her (she was furious that our son-in-law had even called us). She said she shouldn’t have gotten married in the first place (they had been married 3 years at that time). I nicely told her she should have thought of that before she brought a baby into the world. We visited our son-in-law and our grandson a few months after this. We thought we could see our daughter too, but she refused to see us. Our son-in-law (and his mom who was there) assured us they didn’t intend to keep our grandson from us. I tried a few more times to reach out to my daughter (we only had Facebook as a means of communicating because she changed her phone number and we didn’t know where she was living). I was shut down. Our son-in-law suddenly stopped talking to us and blocked us from sending messages on Facebook. We discovered that our son-in-law had filed for divorce and he had primary custody of our grandson. We decided to file for grandparents’ rights. My husband sent a message to our daughter telling her we were going to do that. She blasted us, telling us we would regret it if we did and to stay away from her son. She eventually sent me a message telling me she knew drug addicts who treated their kids better than I did when she and her husband separated. I wouldn’t go that far, but I do know, and admitted, that I totally screwed up in how I handled it. She also said we were not her family anymore. She has cut her siblings out of her life as well–even her brother who she was super close with (and who did nothing to her). Since then, we have seen pictures of our grandson (who turns 4 in two weeks and has no idea who we are) when our son-in-law posts them on Facebook. Our daughter, if she posts anything, does not allow us to see the posts. The only exception to that was Christmas morning when she posted some pictures that we actually got to see. I don’t know if that was a mistake or a gift.

I honestly didn’t think a heart could break over and over again and hurt more each time. I don’t know what else to do. I miss my daughter so much. I miss my grandson and my heart hurts to be a part of his life. My heart hurts for him–for the mess his parents have made in his life. The only good aspect of that is I know our grandson is well loved–our former son-in-law is a great daddy. Still, I find myself envious of his parents who get to see him and spend time with him on a regular basis. He only knows them as grandma and grandpa.

I have acknowledged the mistakes I made when she left her husband. I have apologized and asked for forgiveness. I even admitted to her that I am getting help on how to handle my emotions better. She doesn’t care. I know the longer this goes the less chance there will ever be reconciliation. This is incredibly heartbreaking. I admit that often I have thought about ending my life just to make her feel bad. Thankfully, I have resources to help me through those difficult moments. It still hurts so, SO much

trickybiscuits posted:

Holy crap, thank you for explaining things so clearly that I've been struggling to make sense of. Was it someone in this thread who said that this lack of a sense of self and inability to interact properly with people led to a lot of focus on surface things like money? Because I've been struck by how often these parents seem to have gotten their ideas about family from Hallmark commercials- photo opportunities like Christmas and meeting a new baby are very important, and wedding pictures absolutely have to include every living person on the family tree regardless of their actual relationship with the couple. They want the appearance of a relationship because that's the only version of family they can understand.


Well, here's someone.









Her son is ducking out of the situation. With any luck soon her husband will become her new target

Puppy Time posted:

From similar people I know, I think part of it is "My parents were actually abusive and I'm still performing the role as dutiful son/daughter, and I wasn't nearly as bad as them* and I made effort even though it was hard so I deserve the reward of connection (so I can keep feeling like a good person and avoid the pain of doubting that)."

Like this is a mindset that relies almost entirely on appearances, and also finds it really hard to accept bad actions on their part as reality (because it'd break the Good Person facade they require to avoid pain), so you can make sense of the actions by seeing it as "I need you to keep up appearances because I'm not capable of dealing with a reality where my efforts and sacrifices didn't pay off."

Again, it's a situation where the facade of good person is the only defense the person has from sinking into an oblivion of shame and pain, to the point that they can't see things from any other point of view, because maintaining the facade is keeping up 99% of their mental power. Though they're probably aware on some level that their reactions are unusually strong, so they unconsciously have to construct a reason why they're so upset- "I went over the line with my kids so they said gently caress off" doesn't merit the level of pain they feel, whereas "I martyr myself regularly for my children, and they cruelly abandon me" does. Not a carefully plotted out narrative (if they were capable of that, they wouldn't be screaming on your doorstep) but the first thing their mind seizes on, faster than conscious thought.

Also bear in mind that this mindset didn't form in a vacuum, and they've likely been trained from the start by their families to Be Good Or Else, where "Be Good" is "do whatever the parents tell you, no matter what." So from that point of view, children who stand up for themselves and protect themselves are breaking the rules of nature.

It's easier to understand the bizarre logic once you realize that the behavior is all about protecting an image in the moment to avoid the mind-crushing pain and shame. It's the psychological equivalent of someone trying to hold off a rampaging monster with whatever happens to be on hand- they don't have the time to think, plot, or prepare, because the monster is RIGHT THERE and will absolutely destroy them if given the chance, so they just grab whatever and keep it up.

*Probably true, though obviously they're still absolutely terrible parents

quote:

Oh SweetCaroline, you have come to the right place. We know the same hurt, anger and shame, we know it all too well. No one is perfect and couldn’t possibly be. We have all made mistakes. Don’t blame yourself for this estrangement. Any mistakes made were not worth estranging from a parent over. I am pretty confident in saying your son will make mistakes with his family as well. Forgive yourself for you mistakes and don’t blame the estrangement on any thing you have done. As you said, you did the best you could do. We are humans and that is all we can offer. I’m so thankful you have one son that shows you your value and appreciates you.

quote:

There was no horrible mistakes I made that caused this and I know it. Realizing again, I was and I am a good parent I went to the Cheesecake Factory to celebrate the Mother’s Day that she was too busy to remember. Yes, I know it is February but I thought better late than never, I was not crying and I deserve a Mother’s Day.

quote:

I have been doing hard thinking and making list about the things my daughter said I need to work on. Well, she is WRONG!!! I believe I am a normal mother that would do anything and everything they could if they thought their child was putting themselves and others in danger, mine definitely was. Nothing is off limits when you think you are trying to save their life. No more working on me, I’m fine. She needs to work on herself. Nuff said on this subject. Ain’t going to hear that crap anymore.

quote:

Once while home for a rare weekend she went to a party and called me at 2am to pick her up. I went to the party and a group of young people opened my passenger door and shoved her in the car, reached in and buckled her in, then started screaming take off, take off. I drove away and was going 40 mph when she took off her seatbelt and tried jumping out of my car. She had on a new pair of boots and the street gravel ate a hole in her boot the size of my fist. I had no place to pull over and was holding her in the car by her shirt that finally tore from her body. She was screaming, I want to go back to the party over and over. I finally pulled over and told her I would take her home to put on fresh clothes and take her back. Once home I woke my husband and he pinned her in the backseat and we took her to the hospital. My elderly mother only came to visit once a year because we lived 8 hours away. Mostly we would visit her. My mother was so traumatized she never came back and passed a few years later.

quote:

Hi, I’ve been posting some and replying some but never really introduced myself. 4 years ago our daughter and her two children moved into our home after a bitter divorce. She had a beautiful baby girl by a different father one year later. He doesnt come around much but I think they still have a relationship. My daughter is very moody, bipolar, and PTSD. My husband and I have been nurturers and protectors. Nothing was ever right for her albeit dinners, floor, washing machine/dryer, bathroom, bed….something always to complain about. Two months ago she spanked the baby’s bare thigh and left a welt. The baby ran screaming to me. I held her and hugged her.This was not the first time. My daughter was in her bedroom with the door shut as usual. I prayed about it. We reported to DCFS the next morning. She moved out the following day to the confines of a reservation. She says she will never come back. We haven’t seen our grandkids in two months. We have talked to our counselor and about grandparent rights. We live in a remote community where minimal support can be found. DCFS closed their case a week or so ago. We are struggling to put one foot in front of the other. We read Sheri’s book and try to follow the helps.

quote:

Cookiecrumbs,

That is so sad. They encourage people to call CPS or whatever they call this when someone is harming a child, but I honestly believe this is probably more harmful in the long run than not calling, especially if you are a person who has some control over the child who is being mistreated, on a regular basis. Calling CPS often takes away what little control and influence you did have. It is supposed to be anonymous, but that is often very unrealistic due to the nature of the report. The parent will know who made the call.

The parents never forgive or understand why you called, and they have the power to keep the child away from you and will do so.  I see how people operate. I can imagine the tall tale your daughter tells others about why she keeps her child from you. I’m sure according to her that you made a completely false report against her just because you are a mean person and wanted to hurt her. (And I’m sure she has plenty of followers who believe her). I should have called on my DS throughout the years but I have figured the outcome for the kids would be worse if I called than if I didn’t. Now, some things are coming up where I feel compelled to tell about past events, and tell why my DS is a lousy parent, I am asked, well why did you not report this when it happened?” There are no good answers sometimes.

MasBrillante posted:

This post is a RESPONSE to someone else’s supposed trauma. And it’s this long. Also they are all totally seeing Christian “therapists.”

Kerro posted:

I'd really recommend reading anything Janet Lansbury has written, she has a great website and I think offers a really clear, coherent perspective on what our goal should be as parents, and what we can practically do to achieve that. So much of it simply comes down to not invalidating our children's experience - that even when there is a clash of wills, or where we have to overrule what they might want, we can do it calmly and with an acknowledgement of the feelings they have about it. So much is implicitly communicated when we do this - that we see them, and that our love for them is not dependent on them doing the right things or feeling a particular way, that we can care about them and listen to them even when we are in conflict.

From what you describe specifically, freezing in response to aggression very much is a defense mechanism - it signals a rise in anxiety which triggers the fight/flight (leaving before it gets worse)/freeze system. The function of anxiety (when it's operating correctly) is to warn us of a threat, and I'm guessing that for you historically having that anxiety response would have served an important survival function to help you manage a very real threat. Unfortunately of course as an independent adult and a parent yourself it stops being so useful, as it's now responding to triggers that don't in reality carry the threat that aggression once would have done (having your kids or partner get angry vs having an abusive parent get angry when we're too young or to caught in the pattern to defend ourselves).

If you're able to access therapy, that's the sort of thing that it can be very helpful in addressing. Probably the majority of the patients I work with are in one way or another seeking help because they developed systems of anxiety or attachment patterns that were necessary as children (either because they were crucial to cope, or simply because their parents didn't allow them to function in any other way) but which are devastating when they are still operating as adults.

Regarding your last point - while it can certainly be helpful to learn ways to defuse things when you clash, it's not the only important thing. Just as important is being able to reconnect afterwards - being able to apologise, reflect together on what went wrong, and express care and compassion for each other can go an enormous way to repairing any harm cause by conflict or rupture to the relationship. If anything, it's a crucial part of modelling that people can get angry at each other and have disagreement and conflict, and that it doesn't change the love that they have for each other - that anger and love are not mutually exclusive. Part of the harm caused by narcissistic parents is the unwillingness to take responsibility, acknowledge fault and apologise, particularly when the children are younger. As younger kids we implicitly assume that the way our parents are treating us is correct and for our own good, and so by default if they never acknowledge fault, our default assumption becomes that there was something wrong with us, that we were to blame. We can then easily go into life believing that 'the way they made me feel must be the right way for me to feel', and end up recreating that same experience, or feeling anxiety about anything that clashes with that experience (e.g. feeling happy, proud of ourselves etc). So sure, focus on developing better ways to manage conflict, but equally focus on learning to repair and reconnect (including taking responsibility and apologising) when things go wrong.

quote:

Wow, just what us parents need, another unjustified blow to how awful we contemporaries are.  My goodness, back in the day, to even say I hate my parents would have gotten you a five fingered hand print across your face.  That was acceptable discipline when I was growing up. As a matter of fact, killing your children rarely, if ever, was punished.  Now, not only are we bad parents because we are too nice, or didn't beat them, but articles like this cautioning us to not send to many emails or making their holidays unhappy.  Many parents will not see their children at all, because for a lot of parents, they’ve been written off for reasons that remain a mystery to them.  So, you can’t ruin a holiday for a person who doesn’t show up. Maybe we all should get real here, with attitudes reflected in this article, a lot of parents have children who just walked out of their lives and dumped them, after a childhood of unconditional love, caring and protection.  The author of the article doesn’t think those qualities are enough to make your child not hate you, and that being a bad parent is sending too many emails. I’ll repeat that, sending too many emails is a reason for your child to hate you. Gee thanks for the parenting tips.  I wish I would have thought of these, instead of working full time so my children had enough food to eat, and clothes to wear, adjusting my schedule so I could help with homework and always be involved with school activities, making sure she didn’t have to walk alone when she was young, etc. And the most important thing I thought, was never let a day go by without hearing the words I love you. Get the picture?  No wonder we have so many ungrateful children in this society, keep telling them hating their parents for nothing is acceptable.  And sadly, this despicable concept, thanks to articles like these, has caught on. And has left many good parents second or third guessing themselves, not their children. 

quote:

As a matter of fact, killing your children rarely, if ever, was punished.

MasBrillante posted:

quote:

Hello to all. I guess there is no point in dragging out the details of my own personal betrayal by my youngest son.

In short, the child with which I felt the deepest bond and reciprocal affection met a woman, fell in love, married her and became increasing critical of me. Over eight years we tread that familiar thin ice in order to keep things right for her and right for this new him.

A very unbalanced, polite, controlled and measured relationship was what evolved. We gave, they took and we were always on guard against doing, saying the wrong thing. Over the years it was mostly me in the “hot seat” and under a magnifying glass. In the end it was my husband that said something that was “wrong” and apparently unforgivably insulting to her. My son backed her up as was the pattern and I found myself unable to triangulate against my dear husband who had apologized and was way within his rights to say what he did. The light hearted son I knew had become humorless and defensive and completely unreasonable and actually abusive with his words and behavior.

Limping along to salvage contact with them became impossible anymore. Sadly, there are two precious granddaughters in the mix and one on the way.

After hitting my head against every possible wall to make this not be my family’s truth, it may finally be sinking in that there is nothing more that I can try. My husband and I have exhausted every strategy and are out of “angles” to fix this. I may finally be ready to help someone else.

Sheri! thank you for writing this intelligent book, Done With the Crying, which I am just now able to work through. It is smart, comforting and incredibly helpful.

Pope Corky the IX posted:

"You're the reason we don't have any friends"

My father told me that when I was nine years old. And yet somehow, even though I haven't lived with them for thirteen years and have been no contact for seven, they still don't have any friends.

quote:

Im sorry I shared my feelings and disappointment about my daughters poor treatment of us with my son (who lives across the world). I was hoping for some empathy but instead he told me to re- read my text as if my daughter was reading it and think about how she’d feel. He went on to say I was toxic and I’ve sabotaged all my relationships. “Why else won’t GD talk to you Mom?”

My initial reaction was sadness that he doesn’t understand and is quick to blame me; and then I was angry. I told him how his generation overuses the word “toxic”. Aren’t people allowed to be distraught, overwhelmed, upset anymore for fear they will be tossed aside forever for having a toxic episode. I asked him what has happened to the days where your family loved you just because you were a family member, good qualities and bad qualities you knew they loved you anyway? I told him he has no right to call me toxic when he has no idea what I’ve been through and even if I had a bitchy moment and expressed how fed up I am, it does not mean I sabotage all my relationships. He did apologize however his comments have put me back into a place of loneliness and frustration. If our own children and their children don’t love us and treat us with respect- do other people assume it’s our and we must have done something terribly wrong to make our own family members hate us so. My daughters actions have caused my family to fall apart but I am ultimately the one to blame.

quote:

Dear Fellow Estranged Parents,

I’m here to introduce myself as a brand new member and I’m very relieved I have found a “home” where I don’t feel I am so alone. For me, the estrangement slowly began 4 years ago after my son got married and began cutting his sister out of his life. However, it didn’t become obvious to me until a couple of years later. My son and I always had a very close and healthy relationship, and he had a special bond with his sister as well. Their loving relationship was the joy of my life. When he first met his bride-to-be, we all loved her – she was beautiful, friendly, and quickly endeared herself to us. When the new happy couple began cutting my daughter out of their lives, I didn’t think much of it as I figured they were merely adjusting to their new lives together.

After a few months of married life, my son and his wife moved to the other side of the state. I was never a “hover mother” and encouraged independence. So again, I really didn’t think much of it. Finally, I asked my son about his seemingly strained relationship with his sister, and he confirmed what my daughter had always suspected. He gave me no specific reason for cutting his sister out of his life, and was vague overall. During the following years, I occasionally mentioned to him that this strained relationship saddened me, but didn’t let him know how much it devastated me because I didn’t want this “issue” to destroy our relationship. So I tried not to make a big deal over it, figuring it would work itself out somehow. But there was always that “elephant in the room” whenever they came for any family get-togethers.

Several weeks ago, my son called me to say his wife recently had a miscarriage. I was devastated for them, as I knew they wanted a family. Later that day, I shared the sad news with his sister, and she asked whether she should reach out to him. I told her “that would make my heart smile.” I was hoping for a positive connection. After she reached out to him, my son called me to say that he did not appreciate me sharing this “confidential” information with her. I was completely gob smacked and could hardly speak. We usually end our phone conversations with a “goodbye, I love you” but I couldn’t even bring myself to utter those words. The phone pretty much fell out of my hands. He later texted me and said he was sorry if he hurt my feelings. Again, I didn’t even know how to respond. There was so much to say, and I knew I couldn’t express myself in a meaningful way over the phone, so I began writing down my feelings. After a few days, I finally responded to him by email that my feelings were not hurt by being confronted about an assumed understanding of confidentiality, but I was dismayed because of the REASON he didn’t want his sister to know… and that is, she is no longer considered to be a member of his family. I poured out my heart and soul to him because I wanted him to finally understand how much this is hurting me. Well, that was 5 weeks ago, and I haven’t heard a peep from him since then. His silence speaks volumes. Apparently, I’ve overstepped certain “boundaries” by challenging his decision to cut his sister out of his life. So, apparently, I guess I’m being cut out as well.

I’m living my life in a sort of limbo now, I feel my son has died – not physically, but emotionally. Like he’s been kidnapped by some insidious cult and was completely brainwashed. I’ve been completely blind sided by this, and don’t know how to move on. I’ve just ordered the book, “Done With The Crying” and I’m hoping to find some guidance and peace.

quote:

Hi. I’m new here. Mother of adult son and daughter, and estranged from daughter for about 2 years intermittently since she met and married her partner. They moved out of state after my daughter got pregnant through invitro. I’m angry and hurt because before they left, I was ambushed with an unrealistic demand that would create great upheaval in my life while I was being treated for cancer. Because I refused, I have been essentially ostracizes. I have had intermittent contact with my daughter, but usually when she needs financial assistance, which I also have started to refuse. I’m confused because she seems to try to make contact and share my grandson with me when her spouse is not around. I do not get along with her spouse. I don’t really know her, but feel like she does not have my daughter’s best interest at heart. There was another incident when I traveled to see my grandson and was confronted by her spouse about issues between my daughter and myself that are personal and felt she was overstepping by trying to discuss them with me. I had to leave because she was upsetting the baby and my granddaughter (my son’s teenage daughter) who was with me. I didn’t speak with my daughter after that for almost a year. Then I apologized because I felt like I was the bad mom. Since then we have not spoken; texts have been short and sometimes there is no response at all. I’m beside myself with grief and exhausted trying to figure out how to just communicate. I send gifts for my grandson and get no real thanks or acknowledgement other than she got them. I feel unappreciated and insignificant. I feel guilty and stuck between wanting to give up and holding on to hope that we can be define some boundaries and reach compromise. I just need to know I’m not alone as a parent, and I’m not going crazy. Thanks for including me in the community

Bruce Boxlicker posted:

She put the two older ones in the loving riptide at the beach despite us both telling them not to ever, ever do that. My mother sent our daughter into the rip to pull the weirdo neighbor girl OUT.

If it was just her and I we'd just walk away but because our kids have always known them it's going to be hard and need to be final.

trickybiscuits posted:

Just start reading this site. And think about what you're going to tell your kids when they figure out that you knowingly left them in the care of people like this.

What do you want to bet the "vacation" consisted of sitting in the house silently watching television nine hours a day?

eta: "took them to see the largest tree in the area"

quote:

I just was talking to a friend of mine who knows the whole story with my son- she calls it a “continuing pattern” over the years. We have been friends since our sons were in kindergarten so a long time.
I mentioned that my grandson’s first birthday was May 9. Before this latest estrangement, we had planned to fly out to see GS and celebrate. As we have not heard from ES or his fiance since they left December 7 as they found the visit to our home “not meeting their expectations” as all they did was “sit in the house and see us which was not what they expected ” all untrue as we took them places and also gave them our car along with gift cards for meals and directions to sites to see. So our plans to fly out have been tabled as they apparently want nothing to do with us-
So, we have not made any contact with ES at all. As he wants nothing to do with us, I planned to nothing for my grandson’s birthday.
My friend has said she would go out and buy my grandson a nice present and mail it to their house even if it is thrown in the trash- the rationale being that I am giving them ammunition to dislike me by not sending a gift. She said they will rant that we are uncaring grandparents who did not even acknowledge GS’s birthday by sending a gift if we do not send something. She said by mailing something, they cannot criticize us. I was sending monthly diapers and formula never a word of thanks- but after the lack of contact stopped. She said her DIL does not speak with her and she still sends her gifts for her birthday and Christmas every year just so that the DIL cannot say she does not send her gifts. The gifts are never acknowledged and she continues to send them which I find a bit crazy. I wonder if her DIL thinks she is mental for continuing to send presents which are not even acknowledged? She did the same with her late MIL who put all the gifts she gave her in a drawer and never used them- but she said no one could say she did not give her gifts. I wonder how will I ever know what they say or think as they do not speak with us anyway? So who cares?
Well, every gift I have ever given them as been criticized, belitted and downgraded even thrown on the floor or outright rejected! Very hurtful! Never a word of thanks but surely a lot of criticism. Nothing we can do is ever good enough. Despite us buying them a home a few years back nothing we ever do is good enough!
So, I plan to do nothing. My friend says I am making a huge mistake. I do not feel I am.
My gut feeling is to let it pass and let it be.
I have already been told a I was such a bad mother I will never be in my son’s life. So, what is the use? I can look at the their Facebook pages- they have not defriended me yet I do not as it hurts me so to see photos of my GS as the night before a major hurricane hit my home my son’s fiance who was then pregnant told me that we will “never be one big happy family as her mother hates me and wants to tell me off when she sees me” reason unknown as I have done nothing to her mother- so these words came to pass- we are not one big happy family and never will be.
Seems their mind is made up and we are not part of their plans.
Any advice?

quote:

After a lot of thought my husband and I decided that our GS is not to blame for ESs attitude. We decided to pick out a gift for GS and have it sent to him. Birthday not for several days but sent it to arrive on time.
Gift delivered yesterday, last night phone rang and ES said he wanted to thank us and FaceTime with GS.
I thought I would be happy but for some strange reason I was not. I realized I do not know the GS I saw on the screen nor do I know my ES. It was like watching strangers on the video. The joy I imagined just was not there .
Conversation was sparse and carefully chosen words used by my husband and I. A sadness cane over me as I felt something was wrong with me for not being thrilled.
The joy I imagined in seeing my GS was not there. I started to wonder if
there was something wrong with me as I was not thrilled over seeing my GS.
We sent the gift for our GS not to hear anything. We did and although happy to know the toys arrived woke up today with a blank slate.
Anyone else ever have such a reaction to what should have been a happy FaceTime?

quote:

I have been trying to reach someone I am friends with for some a few months now. We were friends when we lived in another state- I gave her many things when I was moving as I moved before her and thought we were friends. We have not seen each other since she moved to our state 2 years ago but talked on the phone quite often. She as my facebook friend and suddenly she was gone off so I was worried about her.

Since May, she was off facebook and never picking up her phone. Last time before today we spoke she was going into the hospital for tests and I have been worried about her. Her not picking up the phone made me feel she may be really ill. I sent messages to both her daughters on facebook and got no response. I was thinking perhaps she has passed away? I really was concerned.

In any case I called her again today and she picked up. I asked how she was doing. Her reply was well I blocked you on Facebook and have not answered your calls as you are a two face. I said what? She said I read what you wrote about your son’s fiance calling her beautiful and it made me sick as you told me you had problems with her and did not like her much. She said you cannot have it both ways- you either like her or you do not and you should not call her beautiful. I I said yes, that is true we do not have a perfect relationship but she is attractive.

The posting in question was in May when it was my grandson’s first birthday I posted a picture of my son’s fiance and grandson. I said here is my handsome grandson and his beautiful mom.

In the past I had told this “friend” about problems I had with my son’s fiance- I have had a rough road dealing with her but truth be told she is my son’s choice and if I needed to be in touch with my son right now I would have a much better chance of contacting her and having her answer than my son who never picks up if we call. I have made an effort to take the high road and be nice to his fiance with the idea that being nice to his fiance and trying to foster that relationship will help mend things with my son or at least keep some semblance of normallty going. His fiance is the one who initiates our Facetime which has been a nice thing for us as we live so far away.

This “friend” told me that cannot have it both ways- I cannot disslike someone and then call them beautiful- she was offended by one word on my facebook page. Truth is his fiance is beautiful better looking than I am and much better looking than his ex wife. When she is made up she is very attractive and she looked beautiful in the picture with my grandson.

I was taken aback and did not reply other than to say- well nice talking to you have a good day and I hung up. I sat and cried after the call thinking that maybe I was a two face.

This woman has a good relationship with her 2 daughters. They live near her, she sees her grandkids all the time and posts photos of the happy times. She does not need to try and be nice to anyone to see her grandkids- I do. I thought we were good friends- apparently my saying my son’s fiance was beautiful broke the friendship. I wish I had the good relationship with my son and grandson that she has with her family and I am desperate to do anything to make that happen.

I made an effort to do something nice every day. I call an elderly widow every day to cheer her up. I try and give a good word to whoever I come in contact with- that is me. Not sure if that is wrong- but this person thinks my using the word beautiful was a major crime.

I guess I lost a friend trying to be nice to my son’s fiance.

What do you think?

Clitch posted:

It...kinda does.

quote:

Every year for 7 years we spend our holiday with my bff. She knows and her family knows my story. Having 2 ED’s and no family. Last year her father-in-law wouldn’t stop with questions about ED’s. So I finished my dinner and started to mingle with other people. This year she gave me every excuse in the book why we are not invited. She said she got stressed because her fil was bugging me and she doesn’t want that. I told her o could care less. She also told me she never wants us to be alone on a holiday and if she did all the holidays we would always be there. So now we are alone again. I never mentioned that I felt badly. We were uninvited. Later that evening I expressed how I felt that I was sad. I feel there are other things going on. She always was there for me. Feeling sad. How would yu feel?

quote:

On my previous post I wrote about my best friend not calling me
for 6 weeks and not being invited for the holiday, well I got the scope on Saturday when she finally called. She told me she can’t have us anymore because she gets too stressed out and has terrible anxiety. This is a friend we have been spending 7 years with. I told her I feel badly because this is the only holiday we ever spent with a family. She knows I have 2 ED’s and no family. I told her I feel badly but I understand. She turns around and said by saying I feel bad made her have more anxiety and a TRUE friend would never say anything. So because I mentioned I’ll miss everyone she thinks I’m not a true friend. That hurt me deeply and I was in tears all day yesterday since Saturday.
She turned on me. I’m so hurt. Ruby66

trickybiscuits posted:

Is this the woman who needed two separate threads to share the story, both of them made on Sunday?

trickybiscuits posted:

I had the advantage of taking care of her because I lost my job when I was pregnant. As a contracted teacher, I had little recourse, so I threw myself into her care – breastfed her for a year, arranged, play dates, purchased smart toys to stimulate her mind and big toys to promote coordination. She ate from an organic garden brimming with fresh veggies…. I read to her often while snuggling in bed. She is, and always has been, extremely bright to the point of putting the states of a US map in the appropriate slots when she was 3. She seemed primed to take on the world.

quote:

It would be wise to think very carefully before going the legal route to gain access to a grandchild that they no longer see due to estrangement.

There are some states where you can legally apply for visitation rights . It Comes with not only a huge monetary costl but an even larger emotional costs not only to the Grandparent but the. Emotional cost to the innocent child.

This is the reality . You win ! You finally get to see the child you once loved so much, the child you haven’t seen , sometimes for extended periods. Your estranged child standing in the background looking sullen, angry, defiant and ready for a confrontation. They have lost the weapon they so desperately needed to punish you . They have now lost all Control over you. They’ve been pushed down from their Pedestal of hiarchy where they look down at you filled with self righteousness and indignation. “It’s all gone. ‘.

. The child you all but bankrupted yourself to gain access, the emotional toll of the ups and downs in the challenging process has wrecked havoc on you. . But the child you meet and the child that was ripped from you , in most cases are not the same child. The child standing before you is someone you don’t recognize, The greatly anticipated meeting where a child comes running towards you Screaming Nana . This disappointingly. didn’t happen.. The child just Stands there , does nothing. . Cool demeanour, distant , suspicion., uncertainty. And sometimes anger and resentment. Written all over husband/her face. You feel frozen and thoughts of uncertainty whirls around in your head. The questions. Start . What have I done? What have this child been told about me from their greatest influencers, your EC? Have my fight to gain access to this child cause this him /her more emotional damage and resentment. by forcing them into relationship with a person they hardly know and may not even like ? All these questions in your mind but the love for this child is more intense today than it was when the child was ripped away, but the child in front of you feels nothing, Are you ready for the monthly interactions with your EC ? In all probability exposing yourself to their sarcastic , barbs, Getting stood up last minute, . Every obstacle your EC child can come up with to make things more difficult for you to access the GC will be made. They will do it shamelessly. That’s promised. Court order be dammed because your EC know you will eventually give up . You won’t go back to court . Why? Because the loving Grandparent will put the resentful Grandchild First and the emotional price the GP suffer is too high . Constant Frustrations planning the visists , one disappointment after another. Become too much to bere. . So you walk away in defeat leaving the child abandoned by the GP not once now but twice. Winning means you’ve sealed your fate with your EC.

I’ve watched this horror. Unfold first hand. I know. ! Be care what you wish for. Estrangement is Dark , Raw and Ugly .

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

They don't actually feel gratitude or anything else like that. It's why they need physical thank yous and other such chores of gratitude and deference. They think family is a tit for tat preform of favors. And they gave their children so much. Imagine all they could spend on themselves if they didn't have to feed and cloth the brats

OMFG FURRY posted:

the more they post about it on Facebook, the more likely they are the toxic one

just another posted:

I feel bad for grandkids exposed to abusive grandparents. Severing was much easier when the kiddos came along.

quote:

Last Sunday I went out for dinner in a local restaurant with my husband. We came home at around 10pm. At 11.30 the police came. Again. They told us that our child was in hospital and that she had been badly beaten, her face had been stamped on by someone wearing a trainer shoe. They asked to see my shoes and I agreed. I told them that I am 57 and I don’t wear trainers. My husband asked what was going on. The police told him that our daughter was in hospital, had been badly beaten and had made a statement that it was me, her mother, that had hurt her.

We said we had been out for dinner and that we have not seen our daughter for months. My husband paid cash for our dinner, we had no receipt and the restaurant was closed for the evening.In spite of everything we told them about our history, at 1am I was arrested in my home, cautioned and taken to the police station in our city centre.

I spent the next 18 hours in a police cell alone. I have NEVER done anything wrong in my life. It was so dreadful. A concrete bench to sit on and a steel toilet in the corner which was dirty. I sat on the edge of the dirty bench for the whole time.

When the restaurant staff arrived at work and confirmed to the police that we were there I was released and driven home by two detectives. They were apologetic, but I could not wait to just get into my home.

I am so angry, but our solicitor says we do not have a case as our daughter made three separate statements to three different detectives stating it was me and they acted on that at the time. They may now charge my daughter for misleading them and giving false evidence.

I am so traumatised by this. I can’t rest, I have such terrible flashbacks to sitting in that cell. It was so awful. At the same time I am out of my mind with worry that my daughter is so hurt.

Yet how could she do that to me? Who would ever accuse their own mummy of that?

I am beside myself with hurt, grief and trauma and I have no idea where to go from here. How can this happen?

I have tried so hard to move on and build a new life, now I am do broken and I don’t know how to begin to put it all together again. Where do I go from here?

TP x

quote:

I am sharing the following because it best explains where we go next.

“In wrongful arrest cases, the burden of proof lies on the Police – they must prove they were acting lawfully and you do not have to prove they were not. People are sometimes arrested because they were misidentified by either the police or a witness but if the arresting officer honestly believed you were the right person, this is a defence for the Police against being sued for wrongful arrest.”

In my case neither officer present felt it necessary to arrest me, but the officer in charge on that night felt that statements from my daughter were evidence enough.

We met with our solicitor today and have decided to pursue a wrongful arrest claim. We are not doing this in the hope of winning’ as my lovely Aussiemom said, the police stick together to defend. Rather it puts our case on record which will protect me in the future. Potentially it also opens the door to our solicitor having conversations which may or may not help us to understand what is going on. At the moment we have no idea which is frightening. In the meantime we have applied for a restraining order which should serve two purposes – protect us and send a clear message ‘do not try to hurt us’.

As for me , I’m not doing so well dear friends. I have the option to go into a private facility to help me and I think I will probably do that because I am very, very lost right now and afraid of myself much less anyone else.

Will keep you updated, thank you all for your unconditional love and support. Please know that you have been my lifeline.

Sheri, all my love to you. My mum has sherry in a crystal decanter and you can only drink it between 3 and 5 pm. Britbox has much to learn! I love you x

MAKE NO BABBYS posted:

Spotted on Slate, I hate everything about this parent and I hope that child escapes and never looks back.

Dear Care and Feeding,

Recently, I was going through my 15-year-old daughter’s phone (I believe parents have the right to know what their kids are doing/seeing online), and I stumbled upon several Google searches on the topic of asexuality. I don’t know what to do with this information, and I’m concerned that my daughter thinks she is asexual. That would mean she’s been having sex and decided she didn’t like it, right? How else would she know? Should I confront her about it? I don’t want her to decide this about herself at 15 and then hold on to it forever, especially because I would like her to settle down and have kids someday. I’m worrying too much about nothing, right?

—Fifteen is Too Young