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whypick1
Dec 18, 2009

Just another jackass on the Internet

Grimson posted:

Could someone do a quick tl;dr post of the NWSL report, and the whole saga I guess? Since most of the websites talking about it are either blocked for me (a combination of gdpr and/or subscription services), and the rest expect you to remember details and names from years past which is a bit difficult when its not a league I follow closely.

Off the top of my head:

So the main antagonist in the report is the Portland Thorns. Their former coach Paul Riley was basically trading sex for favors had a long-standing sexually abusive relationship with two of his players, Mana Shim and Sinead Farrelly (where the bulk of the testimony from the bombshell Athletic article came from). They, along with Alex Morgan, brought this up to the Thorns front office as well as the league itself. The Thorns did nothing, let Riley's contract expire at the end of the year and then said absolutely nothing when the Western New York Flash (now North Carolina Courage) inquired about him before eventually hiring him. The league did absolutely nothing as well (this is a common pattern). Not helping any of this is that there weren't really any codified HR policies anywhere, assuming there was even an HR department that wasn't just the owner (same being true for the league itself).

Basically all of the other teams in the league had coaches who were verbally abusive at "best" or had similar sexual/inappropriate relationships with their players at worst. At best the clubs quietly let the coach go/asked for their resignation without actually saying why (if it happened before the Athletic article) and at worst they silently condoned the coach's behavior (looking at you Chicago).

All of this while the players were fighting to be paid an actual goddamn living wage and not be forced to live in apartments owned by the owner of the team who also served as the handyman (again, Chicago). And it wasn't just the rank-and-file who were affected, as some of the USWNT regulars were in the chorus of those who brought up issues regarding the coach to the front office and were met with deafening silence (Christen Press and, for a third time, Chicago, comes to mind).

edit: There is also a Wikipedia article on this.

whypick1 fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Dec 17, 2022

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Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003

Just the nature of women's sports. IIRC female basketball players tear ACL's 4-5 times as often as their male counterparts.

Mr. Mambold
Feb 13, 2011

Aha. Nice post.



Crazy Ted posted:

Just the nature of women's sports. IIRC female basketball players tear ACL's 4-5 times as often as their male counterparts.

Woman's ACL is a third the size, and so probably strength as well of man's.

Can't remember where I read that. I could quote a horror anecdote about a women's college coach's opinion on ACL tears...

highme
May 25, 2001


I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


whypick1 posted:

Their former coach Paul Riley was basically trading sex for favors with two of his players, Mana Shim and Sinead Farrelly

Jesus gently caress that's a really gross way to describe a years long pattern of abuse. Like what in the actual gently caress?

whypick1
Dec 18, 2009

Just another jackass on the Internet
You're right to call me out on that. Oversimplification/spotty memory. I've edited my post but still left my shame there.

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003

highme posted:

Jesus gently caress that's a really gross way to describe a years long pattern of abuse. Like what in the actual gently caress?
I think we're all adult enough here to recognize that "trading sex for favors" in any professional setting is indeed coercion and abuse, because that phrase in and of itself implies the victims didn't really have much of a choice in the matter.

highme
May 25, 2001


I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


gently caress off with any and all of that. Victims of abuse are not getting “favors” and minimizing their abuse just victimizes them all over again.

highme
May 25, 2001


I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!


“We ArE AlL AdUlTs HeRe”

So we should dance around the topic? We might hurt Pat Riley’s feelings if we actually use the “A” word, and hasn’t he suffered enough?

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003

highme posted:

gently caress off with any and all of that. Victims of abuse are not getting “favors” and minimizing their abuse just victimizes them all over again.
I put that in quotes because no I didn't really mean they were casually trading sex for favors and of course it was more complicated than that and yes also it's a simplified version of a legal term involving something that can happen at the workplace that, when it happens, always involves some combination of sexual harassment, physical abuse, verbal abuse, power imbalances, coercion, threats, sexism, racism, and blackmail that can go on for a period of time ranging from weeks to years.

Does this need to be spelled out further? When someone says it's raining cats and dogs do you literally think it's raining cats and dogs or something

Crazy Ted fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Dec 17, 2022

Grimson
Dec 16, 2004



Crazy Ted posted:

Just the nature of women's sports. IIRC female basketball players tear ACL's 4-5 times as often as their male counterparts.


Mr. Mambold posted:

Woman's ACL is a third the size, and so probably strength as well of man's.

Can't remember where I read that. I could quote a horror anecdote about a women's college coach's opinion on ACL tears...

There was an article in the British Journal of Sports Medicine late last year that looked at ACL injuries in women athletes and argued that the problem wasn't caused by their gender, but rather the way society treats them based on their gender.

quote:

This analysis, the authors write, should take into account the way extrinsic factors such as access to facilities (fields, gyms), staff (qualified physiotherapists, strength and conditioning coaches), equipment (footwear, warm-up programs), as well as wider systems and structures such as healthcare and medical insurance, youth development pathways, contracts, and professional standards all contribute to the increased risk of ACL injuries in women athletes.

They go on to highlight a few things like the different toys they get during childhood: From day one, "gendered parenting … for example, purchasing different toys or allowing greater independent mobility for boys … could manifest as altered movement patterns in sport later in life," the study says.

And how girls/women are told to look at their body and training: For example, ACL research overwhelmingly suggests resistance training and increasing muscle mass is one of the primary methods for strengthening knees and preventing ACL injuries. However, cultural expectations and stereotypes around femininity and how women's bodies should look often affect girls and women's participation in these kinds of activities.

Not to mention that women are, in a lot of cases, using secondary or tertiary fields and pitches to practice on which are rarely up to standard: "The number of teams I see that train on the second field as a female team, but then the male team trains on the main pitch, so when we start to look at landing technique, they're landing on potholes.

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003

Grimson posted:

There was an article in the British Journal of Sports Medicine late last year that looked at ACL injuries in women athletes and argued that the problem wasn't caused by their gender, but rather the way society treats them based on their gender.

They go on to highlight a few things like the different toys they get during childhood: From day one, "gendered parenting … for example, purchasing different toys or allowing greater independent mobility for boys … could manifest as altered movement patterns in sport later in life," the study says.

And how girls/women are told to look at their body and training: For example, ACL research overwhelmingly suggests resistance training and increasing muscle mass is one of the primary methods for strengthening knees and preventing ACL injuries. However, cultural expectations and stereotypes around femininity and how women's bodies should look often affect girls and women's participation in these kinds of activities.

Not to mention that women are, in a lot of cases, using secondary or tertiary fields and pitches to practice on which are rarely up to standard: "The number of teams I see that train on the second field as a female team, but then the male team trains on the main pitch, so when we start to look at landing technique, they're landing on potholes.
Interesting. I was always under the impression that it was down a combination of physiology and access (or lack thereof) to higher-tier training equipment and facilities.

Hadn't thought about how gendercstereotypes themselves could factor into it.

Mr. Mambold
Feb 13, 2011

Aha. Nice post.



Grimson posted:

There was an article in the British Journal of Sports Medicine late last year that looked at ACL injuries in women athletes and argued that the problem wasn't caused by their gender, but rather the way society treats them based on their gender.

They go on to highlight a few things like the different toys they get during childhood: From day one, "gendered parenting … for example, purchasing different toys or allowing greater independent mobility for boys … could manifest as altered movement patterns in sport later in life," the study says.

And how girls/women are told to look at their body and training: For example, ACL research overwhelmingly suggests resistance training and increasing muscle mass is one of the primary methods for strengthening knees and preventing ACL injuries. However, cultural expectations and stereotypes around femininity and how women's bodies should look often affect girls and women's participation in these kinds of activities.

Not to mention that women are, in a lot of cases, using secondary or tertiary fields and pitches to practice on which are rarely up to standard: "The number of teams I see that train on the second field as a female team, but then the male team trains on the main pitch, so when we start to look at landing technique, they're landing on potholes.

The stats for soccer and basketball injuries for men and women would point to anatomical differences, sometimes, the same person having one ACL smaller, therefore more prone to injury ACL, than the other.

https://aclstrong.com/female-and-ac...these%20sports.

whypick1
Dec 18, 2009

Just another jackass on the Internet
NWSL bringing out the big guns and issuing a bunch of permanent bans/suspensions/fines. Looking at the list, this all seems about right, although it seems like the people in the "temporarily suspended/can be re-instated under certain conditions" list are effectively banned because no front office in their right mind would touch them with a 10 foot pole...I hope :ohdear:

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003

whypick1 posted:

NWSL bringing out the big guns and issuing a bunch of permanent bans/suspensions/fines. Looking at the list, this all seems about right, although it seems like the people in the "temporarily suspended/can be re-instated under certain conditions" list are effectively banned because no front office in their right mind would touch them with a 10 foot pole...I hope :ohdear:
It's truly impressive that Vera Pauw was so toxic during her one season in Houston that she's been placed on the Conditional Employment list. Of course she managed to turn that into employment as the manager of the Irish women's NT for the last four years.

The only one on the list that I can't quite remember what they did to get their punishment was OL Reign. Was it their initial hiring of a manager with a long history of misogyny? I can't remember his name but I specifically remember that he had a history of being a dick when they hired him.

Otherwise yeah everything on that list looks about right. Surprised there's nothing about North Carolina owner Steve Malik too - guy willingly employed Paul Riley for those years because the Courage were a juggernaut, and during that same time he self-relegated North Carolina FC from D2 to D3, which as a nice gently caress you to those fans, so he could focus resources on a Courage team that was coached by an unreconstructed sexual predator. There's no way he didn't know what was going on.

Crazy Ted fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jan 10, 2023

whypick1
Dec 18, 2009

Just another jackass on the Internet

Crazy Ted posted:

The only one on the list that I can't quite remember what they did to get their punishment was OL Reign. Was it their initial hiring of a manager with a long history of misogyny? I can't remember his name but I specifically remember that he had a history of being a dick when they hired him.

Farid Benstiti and it was one part lack of due diligence and one part what he did during his time with the Reign:

Sounder at Heart article about these punishments posted:

As the Joint Investigative Report found, Benstiti had instances during the 2020 Challenge Cup and 2021 season where he negatively referenced what players were eating and their weight — culminating in a teamwide speech about diet that led players to submit a formal complaint. That speech included Benstiti saying, “If I see you [eat] snacks, I will kill you.” There were multiple reports as well of players noting that Benstiti mentioned Lindsey Horan by name [referencing his past verbal abuse regarding her weight and diet while at PSG], saying he would do the same thing and “I don’t care if it’s in the paper.”

Swell guy

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003

whypick1 posted:

Swell guy
Sounds like just the person you'd want managing the half of the game that involves players far more likely to have had body image issues growing up.

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003

https://www.espn.com/soccer/lyon-ly...se-against-club

quote:

FIFA published the results of the lawsuit against the club and ordered Lyon to pay Gunnarsdottir's full salary of more than €82,000 plus interest. Under rules approved by the decision-making FIFA Council in 2020, players must be given 14 weeks of maternity leave and clubs will be obliged to reintegrate them afterwards and provide adequate medical support.

Gunnarsdottir, who is now at Juventus, told The Players Tribune that from the time she returned to Iceland in early 2021, she received only "a small percentage from social security." FIFPRO helped her make her first claim to FIFA in September 2021.

In addition to the salary restitution, FIFA also found that the club failed to follow the "duty of care" guidelines, which included a responsibility to offer Gunnarsdottir alternative employment and follow up on her well-being.

"They talked about the 'duty of care' of the club, that there was no contact with me during my pregnancy. No one was really checking on me, following up, seeing how I was doing mentally and physically, both as an employee, but also as a human being. Basically, they had a responsibility to look after me, and they didn't," Gunnarsdottir said.

Watch clubs take all the wrong notes from this.

Doctor Teeth
Sep 12, 2008


wonder if we'll get a perfect hat trick of own goals again

whypick1
Dec 18, 2009

Just another jackass on the Internet
63' in and I kinda doubt it, but at least the US 1) is leading and 2) has scored multiple goals.

Fake edit: Holy poo poo that ball over the top for #3 :eyepop:

Fake edit 2: I'm really not used to Pugh being called "Swanson", especially since that means no more "PUGH PUGH PUGH"

Doctor Teeth
Sep 12, 2008


Doctor Teeth posted:

wonder if we'll get a perfect hat trick of own goals again

close to the first!

Alfred P. Pseudonym
May 29, 2006

And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8

whypick1 posted:

63' in and I kinda doubt it, but at least the US 1) is leading and 2) has scored multiple goals.

Fake edit: Holy poo poo that ball over the top for #3 :eyepop:

Fake edit 2: I'm really not used to Pugh being called "Swanson", especially since that means no more "PUGH PUGH PUGH"

It took me until the second half to realize Swanson was Pugh lol

Doctor Teeth
Sep 12, 2008


i thought andres cantor was losing his ability to do the gooooooooooooool thing but he did it just fine for that ashley hatch goal

whypick1
Dec 18, 2009

Just another jackass on the Internet
He still has a voice after seeing Argentina win the World Cup? I'm surprised.

Also, that was a sweet finish by Lavelle. Sure thought she had no chance of getting on the end of that cross, but welp.

whypick1
Dec 18, 2009

Just another jackass on the Internet
:wtc: (a thread)

https://twitter.com/ScoutRipley/status/1617947592952016896

Soubrier is Crystal Dunn's husband btw

And another for good measure: :wtc:

Doctor Teeth
Sep 12, 2008


peyton place-rear end league

whypick1
Dec 18, 2009

Just another jackass on the Internet
Non-WTF news for a change: NWSL getting VAR this season, which should help bring equality with the men's leagues in the field of fans griping about the referees.

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003

whypick1 posted:

Non-WTF news for a change: NWSL getting VAR this season, which should help bring equality with the men's leagues in the field of fans griping about the referees.
Surely there's going to be a WTF aspect to it since it's the NWSL.

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen
𝅘𝅥𝅮
NWSL plans to expand to Boston and ex-CyberRays area in 2024, with a return to Utah in 2025.

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003

Edward Mass posted:

NWSL plans to expand to Boston and ex-CyberRays area in 2024, with a return to Utah in 2025.
All three should be fine. As far as I remember support for Boston was decent before the plug was pulled but there were a lot of other issues. I just wonder where the Bay-area team would play if they're not owned by the Quakes.

whypick1
Dec 18, 2009

Just another jackass on the Internet
Oakland Coliseum might be empty in the not-too-distant future and the Arena doesn't have any permanent tenants currently. Yes, those are in fact a baseball stadium and an indoor arena, but those are probably still the best choices in the area sadly enough.

(Oakland Roots play at a college football stadium that seats 5500, which I'm sure the league would straight up reject)

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen
𝅘𝅥𝅮
There's CEFCU Stadium is San Jose if PayPal Park is unavailable - it should be fully redone by 2024.

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003

Edward Mass posted:

There's CEFCU Stadium is San Jose if PayPal Park is unavailable - it should be fully redone by 2024.
I was thinking about that stadium and was wondering about the state of its numerous renos - it has multiple issues as an MLS venue.

trem_two
Oct 22, 2002

it is better if you keep saying I'm fat, as I will continue to score goals
Fun Shoe
That’s probably not good https://twitter.com/equalizersoccer/status/1620147977682558986?s=46&t=PkgiH3Ljt3tPwV2wsmtSgg

Crazy Ted
Jul 29, 2003

Not being content with screwing over the men's team after they qualified for the World Cup, the Canadian Soccer Association is now seeing the women's team go on strike months before their own World Cup due to broken promises and shady financing.

whypick1
Dec 18, 2009

Just another jackass on the Internet
Short-changing their women's team shortly after winning a major tournament? Who do they think they are, US Soccer?

whypick1
Dec 18, 2009

Just another jackass on the Internet
Nevermind, they're worse apparently:

https://twitter.com/rwesthead/status/1624487684214255617

Someone with art skills combine :tif: and :canada: plzkthx

whypick1
Dec 18, 2009

Just another jackass on the Internet
Today is the start of the SheBelieves Cup, a 4 team tournament between the US, Canada, Brazil and Japan, taking place in the US. All games air on HBO Max in English with some combination of Universo/Peacock/Telemundo App for the Spanish broadcast.

Schedule:

February 16 - Exploria Stadium, Orlando, FL
Japan vs. Brazil - 4PM EST
USA vs. Canada - 7PM EST

February 19 - GEODIS Park, Nashville, TN
USA vs. Japan - 3:30PM EST
Brazil vs. Canada - 6:30PM EST

February 22 - Toyota Stadium, Frisco, TX
Canada vs. Japan - 4PM EST
USA vs. Brazil - 7PM EST

Reminder that you are all morally obligated to root against Canada because their federation is a dumpster fire.

whypick1
Dec 18, 2009

Just another jackass on the Internet
This weekend is also when the playoff for the last WWC spots will start (along with some friendlies involving Argentina and host New Zealand and losers matches so that everyone plays at least 2 games in this window). 3 spots up for grabs, 3 group winners to take them.

Group A: Portugal vs. Cameroon/Thailand winner
Group B: Chile vs. Senegal/Haiti winner
Group C: Chinese Taipei/Paraguay vs. Papua New Guinea/Panama (shouldn't this be Group P with Portugal in it instead of Taipei? :v:)

habeasdorkus
Nov 3, 2013

Royalty is a continuous shitposting motion.
The Canadian federation is so damned bad. I feel like you kinda gotta pull for the Canadian players given the poo poo they're going through - but at the same time they're being forced to play in the tournament so perhaps it's better not to.

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Nybble
Jun 28, 2008

praise chuck, raise heck
Canadian players say that they haven't been paid for 2022. I imagine we'll see some sort of in-game action/protest, especially given that the first game is against the US who know all too well about this brand of bullshit.

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