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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Jihad Me At Hello posted:

Thanks for pointing me to this thread. I mentioned the 3 percenters in the other thread.

I think I was just frustrated at seeing content that I'm interested online, then later in a video the guy talking about guns is wearing a 3 percenter t-shirt. I'll happily never watch anything from that person again. I don't want the content removed, I'd rather know who these people are than not.

It's just a gross mark on pro gun people.

Yeah, it sucks when that happens.

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Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"



Fun Shoe

Is this the right place to ask if it would be ok to have an artistic goon make us some rainbow 97% TFR patches?

Cause I'll put one of those on my grave.

...maybe.

No promises.

(But probably?)

ScrubbingBubbles
Feb 11, 2009


That Works posted:

Also Cyrano you missed the boat by not calling this thread "The faults in our SCARs"

NerdyMcNerdNerd
Aug 3, 2004

Lol.i halbve already saod i inferno circstances wanttpgback


If we're doing pun titles, I'm partial to "Fash and Accessories"

the yeti
Mar 29, 2008

I FUCKING LOVE COCAINE



NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

If we're doing pun titles, I'm partial to "Fash and Accessories"




Anyone still have a screen of the PSA kekistan lowers that afaik were voted on then ‘oops-we-had-no-clue’ cancelled?

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



the yeti posted:




Anyone still have a screen of the PSA kekistan lowers that afaik were voted on then ‘oops-we-had-no-clue’ cancelled?



And their "oops"

That Works
Jul 21, 2006


Fun Shoe

NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

If we're doing pun titles, I'm partial to "Fash and Accessories"

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

CainFortea posted:



And their "oops"


poo poo talk all you want, at least they realized it was a bad idea.

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014


Am I a... bad person?
AM I??


Fun Shoe

CainFortea posted:



And their "oops"



So am I reading this right? Here's how I'm taking this "oops" of theirs: "Hey, guys. Look, we created this lower so we could make fun of those assholes who always drone on and on about things like equality and won't shut up about how racism is bad. But, it turns out that somehow, white nationalists inexplicably started using this lower. We may never know why some white nationalists would coincidentally and without any logical reason start buying and using this thing we made for the totally innocent purpose of making fun of people who hate racism, but since that totally unforeseeable event has occurred, we'll stop making this thing. In the meantime, we're developing a new AR platform that we think is so stylish and fun that we're calling it the Krazy Kool Karbine, and we hope you all like it!"

the yeti
Mar 29, 2008

I FUCKING LOVE COCAINE



tarlibone posted:

So am I reading this right?

That continues to be my read, yeah; ‘SJWs’ as a pejorative is a big ol’ telltale, imo, as opposed to something to the effect of ‘it sounded like internet joke nonsense so we didn’t look it up ‘

the yeti fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Jul 26, 2019

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



Miso Beno posted:

poo poo talk all you want

Will do!


Here we have a lower commemorating a rapist being confirmed to the SCOTUS


Can't forget this lower celebrating racism and stupidity.

tarlibone posted:

So am I reading this right? Here's how I'm taking this "oops" of theirs: "Hey, guys. Look, we created this lower so we could make fun of those assholes who always drone on and on about things like equality and won't shut up about how racism is bad. But, it turns out that somehow, white nationalists inexplicably started using this lower. We may never know why some white nationalists would coincidentally and without any logical reason start buying and using this thing we made for the totally innocent purpose of making fun of people who hate racism, but since that totally unforeseeable event has occurred, we'll stop making this thing. In the meantime, we're developing a new AR platform that we think is so stylish and fun that we're calling it the Krazy Kool Karbine, and we hope you all like it!"

They didn't come up with the kekistan thing. They just decided to make a lower based on the kekistan thing. And white supremacists were using kekistan long before PSA decided to sell a lower featuring that emblem.

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

Don't let Lowtax go down with the ship. Do your part for these dead gay forums.


I guess PSA never took a close look at the Kekistani flag and its purely innocent resemblance to the Kriegsmarine war ensign.

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES


Whoops we accidentally made a lower with a white supremacist logo because we wanted to make fun of people who like equal rights for all.

Also we definitely made fun of people with autism on our Auto selector position on purpose and we don’t regret it.

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

CainFortea posted:

Will do!


Here we have a lower commemorating a rapist being confirmed to the SCOTUS
Allegedly, but who needs burden of proof when its not my guy.

quote:


Can't forget this lower celebrating racism and stupidity.
Didnt know walls cared about race or ethnicity.

they dont and they do work but hey open borders when a republican is in charge, right?

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

We all got it coming, kid


There was also the Hogg Hunter lower that got scrubbed out of the arfcom thread, cause ya know a gun company winking at shooting children is cool

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

Capn Beeb posted:

There was also the Hogg Hunter lower that got scrubbed out of the arfcom thread, cause ya know a gun company winking at shooting children is cool

Now that is a bad choice.

the yeti
Mar 29, 2008

I FUCKING LOVE COCAINE



Miso Beno posted:

Allegedly, but who needs burden of proof when its not my guy.

Didnt know walls cared about race or ethnicity.

they dont and they do work but hey open borders when a republican is in charge, right?

Nice edits

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

the yeti posted:

Nice edits

I added more words to make it more mean

also removed a bit about canadian walls keeping me of canada this weekend out cos it wasn't as amusing as I wanted it to be

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



Miso Beno posted:


Didnt know walls cared about race or ethnicity.


The people who want to build them do.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



CainFortea posted:


Here we have a lower commemorating a rapist being confirmed to the SCOTUS

In an effort to follow Rule #1 of this thread, I'll point out that this is alleged, although I'm not sure just how pedantic this thread is designed to be.

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

CainFortea posted:

The people who want to build them do.

THANKS OBAMA


Real edit: Pretty sure most people who want a border wall, which includes a brown, product of immigration, like myself, want them to keep folks from streaming across the border in an uncontrolled and undocumented fashion. The narrative is just more fun when you get to make it about race.

for some it may be about race, but I suspect it's really about low cost unskilled labor suppressing value of unskilled labor

Bonus Edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkXhx9wIbio
This dude does a pretty good job of capturing the ILL EAGLE IMMGRUNT sentiment I've picked up on in conversing anecdotally anecdotal conversations with folks on the topic.

The TL;DR is it isn't about race. It's about economics which I'm sure ya'll will also take quarter with since something something consumption isnt ethical or whatever.

Miso Beno fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jul 26, 2019

NerdyMcNerdNerd
Aug 3, 2004

Lol.i halbve already saod i inferno circstances wanttpgback


Miso Beno posted:

Allegedly, but who needs burden of proof when its not my guy.

You know, I see this a bunch- but here's the thing.

If someone says "Trump is a piece of poo poo", they're not by extension implying that his political opponents are any better. A fair number of Democrats, and especially progressives are flipping back and forth like a coked-up metronome between being pissed/depressed by basically everything Schumer and Pelosi are doing.

If someone floated out some credible evidence on something Bill Clinton did, a whole lot of people on the left would love to see him dragged into a courtroom.

Criticism of the left/right isn't a defense of the polar opposite or something that should be reacted to on reflex.

Miso Beno posted:

THANKS OBAMA


Real edit: Pretty sure most people who want a border wall, which includes a brown, product of immigration, like myself, want them to keep folks from streaming across the border in an uncontrolled and undocumented fashion. The narrative is just more fun when you get to make it about race.

Fears about immigration have had ties to xenophobia and race for basically all of recorded human history, to comical extremes, wherein ancient Romans would be all disdainful and haughty about those filthy Italians who were born a like hundred miles away and clearly an inferior lot.

That doesn't mean you're a racist. I don't know you, and I can't speak as to why you think the way you do, or believe the things you do. But historically? Yeah, racism is a huge part of that debate in cultures all over the world. And it's very obviously, very consciously, a big part of why this administration is doing it.

Miso Beno posted:

for some it may be about race, but I suspect it's really about low cost unskilled labor suppressing value of unskilled labor

Not really.

The jobs that illegals do are typically jobs that American employees don't want to do, and that employers don't want to pay a fair wage for. Vast parts of our economy rely upon immigrant labor and when there's a shortage, it hurts the economy. Crops literally wither on the vine, unharvested.

But that aside; the wealthy, going all the way back to the planter elite during America's colony days, have always used wages and economic anxieties to drive a wedge between poor whites and poor blacks. Slaves only took off when indentured servants fell out of favor, in part due to fears that poor whites were going to start lynching the people more or less conspiring to keep them as slaves via burden of debt and a dearth of opportunity/land.

The players change, but the game remains the same.

It's especially pointless since most illegal aliens are people who enter the country legally, then just- never leave when their visa is up. It's pointless, it's cruel, and it is if nothing else- a vast waste of time and money that could be spent improving a great deal of communities, schools, hospitals, roads, and crumbling bridges.

If it was really about protecting American labor, they'd be going after the companies that knowingly take advantage of undocumented workers, and are repeatedly caught doing so.

They do not. They never have.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



Dr. Gojo Shioji posted:

In an effort to follow Rule #1 of this thread, I'll point out that this is alleged, although I'm not sure just how pedantic this thread is designed to be.

It seems to me that the point of this thread isn't "court of law" level of burden of proof. I assumed it was more about sharing info about possible companies we might buy from and any things they've done that we may find problematic.

And, more to the point, even if his refusal to write "raped someone" on his calendar was entirely exculpatory, the point of this lower is to "trigger tha SJWs".

CainFortea fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jul 26, 2019

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



CainFortea posted:

It seems to me that the point of this thread isn't "court of law" level of burden of proof. I assumed it was more about sharing info about possible companies we might buy from and any things they've done that we may find problematic.



Ultimately it is about making informed choices about what you buy. Like I said in the OP, for some people the political stances of companies are incredibly important. For others less so.

I asked for concrete stuff to point because of issues like the SCCY thing and because it makes everything much clearer than just repeatedly citing the same thing we read on a forum a year ago.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



One other note:

I know we’re on the Internet and sarcasm and being flippant is the coin of the realm. Please avoid it here. It competes guts any real conversation by making it easier to dismiss the ideas being conveyed and eliciting stronger reactions.

Just, like, use your words. Not everything needs to be a burn, joke, or meme.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



Cyrano4747 posted:

Ultimately it is about making informed choices about what you buy. Like I said in the OP, for some people the political stances of companies are incredibly important. For others less so.

I asked for concrete stuff to point because of issues like the SCCY thing and because it makes everything much clearer than just repeatedly citing the same thing we read on a forum a year ago.

Well, the lower is an image cribbed right from their site. My commentary can be taken with whatever authority people want to apply to it I guess.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Cyrano4747 posted:

One other note:

I know we’re on the Internet and sarcasm and being flippant is the coin of the realm. Please avoid it here. It competes guts any real conversation by making it easier to dismiss the ideas being conveyed and eliciting stronger reactions.

Just, like, use your words. Not everything needs to be a burn, joke, or meme.



Miso Beno posted:

I added more words to make it more mean

also removed a bit about canadian walls keeping me of canada this weekend out cos it wasn't as amusing as I wanted it to be

Seriously, don't do this in here. Let's keep this thread a little serious so there can be no misconstruing of intent or what people are saying.

the yeti
Mar 29, 2008

I FUCKING LOVE COCAINE



Cyrano4747 posted:

Seriously, don't do this in here. Let's keep this thread a little serious so there can be no misconstruing of intent or what people are saying.

This kind of inadvertently crystallizes something I was grasping at when I PM'd you and couldn't find the phrasing for, that while this is an invaluable conversation to have, attempts to re-litigate exactly what something means or whether it's racist/fascist or not are gonna turn this thread into a slog.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



the yeti posted:

This kind of inadvertently crystallizes something I was grasping at when I PM'd you and couldn't find the phrasing for, that while this is an invaluable conversation to have, attempts to re-litigate exactly what something means or whether it's racist/fascist or not are gonna turn this thread into a slog.

I agree that the potential is there, which is why I want this to be pretty much just serious posting.

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

You know, I see this a bunch- but here's the thing.

If someone says "Trump is a piece of poo poo", they're not by extension implying that his political opponents are any better. A fair number of Democrats, and especially progressives are flipping back and forth like a coked-up metronome between being pissed/depressed by basically everything Schumer and Pelosi are doing.

If someone floated out some credible evidence on something Bill Clinton did, a whole lot of people on the left would love to see him dragged into a courtroom.

Criticism of the left/right isn't a defense of the polar opposite or something that should be reacted to on reflex.
The right and left are both guilty of it. The fact of the matter is the allegations have never been substantiated, and at least in appearance, were brought up in order to maximize political damage, not seek out justice. This is very clearly an instance of guilty until proven innocent because he's not our guy.

If it Kavanaugh came out tomorrow and apologized for being a horrible rapist I'm pretty sure more than a few people on the right would be calling for his blood.

quote:

Fears about immigration have had ties to xenophobia and race for basically all of recorded human history, to comical extremes, wherein ancient Romans would be all disdainful and haughty about those filthy Italians who were born a like hundred miles away and clearly an inferior lot.

That doesn't mean you're a racist. I don't know you, and I can't speak as to why you think the way you do, or believe the things you do. But historically? Yeah, racism is a huge part of that debate in cultures all over the world. And it's very obviously, very consciously, a big part of why this administration is doing it.
Differences in culture is totally a thing people do worry about, and to some degree I think is rightfully so. Folks who immigrate to a country should 100% do their damnedest to join the culture of the society they are moving into. That doesn't mean leaving their own culture behind but incorporating the culture into their own. My family was reasonably successful in doing this while preserving their cultural identity.

That said, most of the folks I talk to, both immigrant derived, and native born Americans who give two shits about the immigration topic want immigration to continue, but in order to do so massive reforms need occur, and that means stemming the flow of folks who are willing to come into the country to violate the law.

A 100% open door policy is a bad policy.

quote:

Not really.

The jobs that illegals do are typically jobs that American employees don't want to do, and that employers don't want to pay a fair wage for. Vast parts of our economy rely upon immigrant labor and when there's a shortage, it hurts the economy. Crops literally wither on the vine, unharvested.
Yes this is absolutely a problem within the United States, and it is partially due to the lack of unskilled labor that is willing to do that type of work, and partially due to our culture creating a society where that work is "beneath" the average worker. This is why I'm all for a guest worker program, and I'm also all for a system of bussing America's able bodied but directionless youth to fields to work for the summer so they can build an understanding of the value of hard work, waking up on a schedule, and being rewarded for your (forced ) labor.

quote:

But that aside; the wealthy, going all the way back to the planter elite during America's colony days, have always used wages and economic anxieties to drive a wedge between poor whites and poor blacks. Slaves only took off when indentured servants fell out of favor, in part due to fears that poor whites were going to start lynching the people more or less conspiring to keep them as slaves via burden of debt and a dearth of opportunity/land.

The players change, but the game remains the same.
Wealthy business owners benefit the most from cheap labor. The fact of the matter is, people willing to maintain a lower standard of living, forego federal protections, and other benefits afforded to American workers drive the cost of labor down. The elite have everything to gain and barely anything to lose for exploiting an inexpensive labor source. Sweatshops are a lovely loving thing and everyone should be mad as hell about that.

The thing is, there is plenty of opportunity in the United States and I would love to bring more folks into the country enjoy the fruits of our collective labors, however, the fact of the matter is the system is a total poo poo show, and doing anything like an amnesty or letting folks continue to overstay their visas/whatever is straight up not good. Most other developed countries in the world maintain control of their immigrants, so why is the US the bad guy for doing so?

quote:

If it was really about protecting American labor, they'd be going after the companies that knowingly take advantage of undocumented workers, and are repeatedly caught doing so.

They do not. They never have.
They do however they're not particularly great at enforcement. Probably because we're lovely at prioritizing things in this country.


i also find the thought of religious groups boycotting media groups because positive portrayals of the homosexuals amusing since the media as a whole is full of the gays.

Cyrano4747 posted:

Seriously, don't do this in here. Let's keep this thread a little serious so there can be no misconstruing of intent or what people are saying.

Roger, should we stop this tangent about illegal immigration as well or can we keep trying to flesh out whether or not being for or against controlled immigration counts as being fascist.

CleverHans
Apr 25, 2011



Yams Fan

Everybody here already knows Kahr Arms is run by militant, 3rd wave Moonies, right?

https://www.vox.com/2018/3/1/170678...ry-moonies-moon

the yeti
Mar 29, 2008

I FUCKING LOVE COCAINE



CleverHans posted:

Everybody here already knows Kahr Arms is run by militant, 3rd wave Moonies, right?

https://www.vox.com/2018/3/1/170678...ry-moonies-moon

Goddamn I can't believe I forgot about moonies

Miso Beno
Apr 29, 2004


Tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty


Fun Shoe

the yeti posted:

Goddamn I can't believe I forgot about moonies

Same, but holy poo poo those bullet crowns are baller.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

If it was really about protecting American labor, they'd be going after the companies that knowingly take advantage of undocumented workers, and are repeatedly caught doing so.

They do not. They never have.

Not true at all.

The issue is that when a company gets caught doing it, it's a game of musical chairs and pity the bastard left without a seat when the music stops. That is to say, usually one or two people get hung out to dry, and the rest of the company moves on.

They should absolutely be holding companies more accountable, but the burden of proof scales geometrically, the more people you try to tie in.

Edit: Frankly, I'm super amazed they were able to tie JP Morgan Chase to that ship full of cocaine. Those guys must be getting lazy about covering their tracks.

infrared35 fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jul 26, 2019

That Works
Jul 21, 2006


Fun Shoe

Miso Beno posted:


A 100% open door policy is a bad policy.


Given that 2008-2016 had some of the highest deportation numbers we've ever seen (and far more than GWB) I would like to politely assert that this is a false narrative / propaganda against the left.

Some liberals are vocally supportive of an open border policy, but that has never actually been put in place. To me it's just rhetoric to stoke the fears of 'illegals takin our jerbs' talk.



infrared35 posted:

Not true at all.

The issue is that when a company gets caught doing it, it's a game of musical chairs and pity the bastard left without a seat when the music stops. That is to say, usually one or two people get hung out to dry, and the rest of the company moves on.

They should absolutely be holding companies more accountable, but the burden of proof scales geometrically, the more people you try to tie in.

Edit: Frankly, I'm super amazed they were able to tie JP Morgan Chase to that ship full of cocaine. Those guys must be getting lazy about covering their tracks.


I would argue that it still would be far more effective to continue prosecution and make better legislation to target companies that knowingly hire illegal immigrants instead of trying to enforce a border wall or similar policy. You have a much more unique view into this so I am genuinely curious if you think that would be a bad idea or not.




if this is a derail that just needs to die please don't bother responding, but am trying to discuss both of those points in good spirits / good faith.

NerdyMcNerdNerd
Aug 3, 2004

Lol.i halbve already saod i inferno circstances wanttpgback


Miso Beno posted:

Differences in culture is totally a thing people do worry about, and to some degree I think is rightfully so. Folks who immigrate to a country should 100% do their damnedest to join the culture of the society they are moving into. That doesn't mean leaving their own culture behind but incorporating the culture into their own. My family was reasonably successful in doing this while preserving their cultural identity.

Partial disagree. My reason is two-fold:

I'm German-Irish and whiter than a duck's rear end in a top hat. If I put up, say, an Irish flag, in front of my house- people would think nothing of that. If I listened to Irish folk music, wore Irish this and Irish that ( discounting Celtic crosses which have been co-opted by white supremacist movements ), people would think nothing of it.

Now flip it. Let's say I'd fail the paper bag test, but I'm here, and I'm legal. And I put up a Mexican flag, and I listened to ranchera music, and I wore my family's home country on my sleeve- how many people you think would give me some side-eye?

It's an unfair standard, and it isn't applied to white immigrants. It is always, always applied to The Other. It's applied to Arabs, Latinos, Indians, Africans. People who look, Other, people who sound, Other. It happened to the Germans and the Irish way back when, and people were way afraid of Catholics for a long-rear end time. Now it's a new Other.

The second reason is because of something I read in The New Jim Crow. It spent a brief chapter exploring the complexities of 'gangster' culture, and made a very persuasive argument that marginalized groups pushed to the fringes of a society will often wrap themselves in layers of what's being projected at them. You tell someone they're dirt, they're a criminal, they're garbage- you tell'em that for years. You raise them in a garden of ashes and give sprout to fury.

The onus shouldn't be on the immigrant to adjust to the country; the country should ( especially with its greater resources ) make available the means for newcomers to adjust, and make them welcome. It isn't even like such programs would cost us very much, and they'd pay dividends in a more integrated, communicative society.

quote:

Yes this is absolutely a problem within the United States, and it is partially due to the lack of unskilled labor that is willing to do that type of work, and partially due to our culture creating a society where that work is "beneath" the average worker. This is why I'm all for a guest worker program, and I'm also all for a system of bussing America's able bodied but directionless youth to fields to work for the summer so they can build an understanding of the value of hard work, waking up on a schedule, and being rewarded for your (forced ) labor.

Big nah on this MIke Rowe stuff. It isn't ingratitude or pride that makes people thumb their noses at this labor- maybe for some middle class families, sure. But there are an awful lot of Americans doing awful, lovely, back-breaking jobs for a wage that can't even put a roof over their head with a forty-hour week.

A lot of agriculture jobs pay below minimum wage. Comically below minimum wage. Ditto service industry jobs, like waiters, bartenders. The bum that doesn't take a job suck-starting sewage pumps for a dollar an hour isn't lazy. The person who'd rather skate on unemployment and look a little longer than take a factory job with mandatory twelve-hour shifts and six-day weeks isn't lazy. The fact that the American worker is vilified for not wanting to break their backs for something less than a subsistence-wage says an awful lot about how we've been manipulated to view labor over the past forty years.

quote:

Most other developed countries in the world maintain control of their immigrants, so why is the US the bad guy for doing so?

People aren't just critical of America. They're also critical of Australia's barbaric treatment of refugees. They're pissed at Turkey, and the EU, and a whole lot of places we just don't hear much about because they're so far away and, when the novelty of new outrage wanes, human suffering at a distance is background noise.

And it isn't just controlling immigration, but the means by which it is done.

It isn't just that people are being detained, but the frankly inhumane conditions in which they are being held.

It is the fact we've seen repeated evidence of racism on behalf of the people charged with enforcing these laws, that the system itself railroads them ( immigration courts are a horror show ), and just... everything. It's all terrible. It's barbaric, top to bottom. As it stands, the whole system is a fasces gripped in the fist of an autocratic system and being used as a bludgeon to crush those most in need humanity.

And most of the migrants from our southern border are a product of our own policies, our own constant meddling in South America, our drug war. It's the equivalent to setting fire to your neighbor's house and shooting them for trespassing when they flee into your yard.

infrared35 posted:

Not true at all.

The issue is that when a company gets caught doing it, it's a game of musical chairs and pity the bastard left without a seat when the music stops. That is to say, usually one or two people get hung out to dry, and the rest of the company moves on.

They should absolutely be holding companies more accountable, but the burden of proof scales geometrically, the more people you try to tie in.

Edit: Frankly, I'm super amazed they were able to tie JP Morgan Chase to that ship full of cocaine. Those guys must be getting lazy about covering their tracks.

That's the point, tho. The companies ( chicken houses are notorious for it ) knowingly operate with migrant labor and almost always get away with a slap on the wrist. These aren't small companies making a mistake on paperwork. If, truly, the goal was to stop this labor from affecting the American market, the Republicans have the power ( today ) to start taking measures to financially penalize the people responsible with fines that would actually hurt. They could pursue policies that would pressure companies into making drat sure they did not take advantage of undocumented workers.

But they aren't, for some reason. And the focus is never on the employer in discussions about illegal labor. It's always on the alien. The other.

For some reason...

NerdyMcNerdNerd fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jul 26, 2019

Jihad Me At Hello
Apr 23, 2002

by FactsAreUseless


Fun Shoe

Never mind.

20 years in construction and I disagree with most of what you've just said. It's way too obvious when people don't know about manual labor or the opportunities in trades.

Jihad Me At Hello fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Jul 26, 2019

NerdyMcNerdNerd
Aug 3, 2004

Lol.i halbve already saod i inferno circstances wanttpgback


Jihad Me At Hello posted:

Never mind.

20 years in construction and I disagree with most of what you've just said. It's way too obvious when people don't know about manual labor or the opportunities in trades.

I'm not really the type of person to jump down someone's throat or whatever, go ahead and disagree with me. I'm not going to say people don't look down on manual labor or trades or anything at all; they do. But in the context of illegal labor we're usually talking about terrible jobs in awful conditions, not, say, apprentice electricians.

I've worked poo poo jobs all my life. I come from a family with a lot of blue collar workers in it.

I think half my posts in the retail thread have been "so I stepped in human poo poo today"

the yeti
Mar 29, 2008

I FUCKING LOVE COCAINE



NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

I'm not going to say people don't look down on manual labor or trades or anything at all; they do.

Literally 3 or so generations of Americans have been really deliberately socialized to think that its college or failure too, just sayin.

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Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"



Fun Shoe

Miso Beno posted:

Yes this is absolutely a problem within the United States, and it is partially due to the lack of unskilled labor that is willing to do that type of work, and partially due to our culture creating a society where that work is "beneath" the average worker. This is why I'm all for a guest worker program, and I'm also all for a system of bussing America's able bodied but directionless youth to fields to work for the summer so they can build an understanding of the value of hard work, waking up on a schedule, and being rewarded for your (forced ) labor.

Retail and restaurant work can be pretty back breaking. Restaurant especially so. After turning septic, I was back doing twelve hour doubles in a kitchen two weeks later. I had a person get bit by a brown recluse, hospitalized, and then back at work that night vomiting every hour. The American worker is treated like garbage, and I don't blame some portion of the population for rejecting this bum deal.

The American hatred of the worker is the problem, not the workers themselves. People would go work in a field if they got paid reasonably and given benefits. America expects indentured servants to work for it, not workers with actual rights. Less than ten vacation days a year? What other developed country has that? 8500 dollar deductible "insurance" that used to not cover pre-existing conditions? Come on. This stuff will be taught in the history books in one hundred years as New Indentured Servitude.

Edit : gently caress, I forgot what thread this is - We can get back to the topic at hand.

Captain Log fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Jul 27, 2019

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