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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Quite possibly, but we're also not going to unfuck it here, in this forum, by ourselves and time and again delving straight into politics has proven toxic as gently caress.

We've got plenty of threads that flirt with the edges of it. This one, the gun control one, plus a couple others that skew over there now and again. But, in general, politics chat is something that as far as I'm concerned you can do anywhere on the internet, but not here.

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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Here, just as a reminder, the thread rules from the OP:


quote:

1) Support any claims you make. It's not enough to say that a company is a bunch of racist, bigoted, assholes. Provide all the evidence you can muster. Make an effort post. You're building a case for why people should be aware of what they're doing. Note that this goes both ways. If you want to push back on someone's claim (see rule 3) do so with some actual effort.

2) Spell out very clearly why you think they're lovely. State the obvious. "Smith Enterprises used a recognizable symbol of a genocidal, anti-semetic regime to sell their rifles and when called on it doubled down" with included pictures of that sticker and their response to criticism, for example.

3) Be prepared for push back on it. Note that this doesn't make the poster who is pushing back an awful person themselves. Maybe you think that having a line of thin blue line gear makes them awful, maybe someone else doesn't. If it's not outright racism chances are it's not as clear cut as you might think.

4) Understand that we are not here to solve anything. You're not going to convince the internet or put them out of business. This is a resource. If someone reads your thoughts what they're doing and also thinks it's lovely, they won't buy there. There is no argument to be won here. If someone says "you shouldn't support this company because they donated to the RNC and I hate the republican party" we don't need a five page argument about that.

5) Avoid purity tests and witch hunts. There are plenty of big fish out there to fry without looking for the bad social media post made by the third cousin of the ex-wife of the CFO of Bushmaster. That example is hyperbole, but it's patterns of behavior not one off incidents that should raise the most eyebrows.

6) THIS IS NOT HELLDUMP.

7) There are going to be political issues in here. This is not, however, general political chat. Don't throw up the latest dumb tweet or most recent bout of insanity on Capital Hill.

8) If this thread isn't something you want, something you like, or if you don't like the discussion happening in it then refrain from posting in it. There's no rule that you have to read and participate in every thread in TFR. If the only thing you care about with firearm companies, for example, is how well the gear works then fine. That's your decision and you can keep spending your money as you choose.

I'm not putting that up to try and point fingers at anyone. God knows all the threads around here wander off the path a little but, and I think you all know by now that I prefer to come nudge them back on track rather than start probating people.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



To be clear I'm not even re-posting those as a way to wag my finger at anyone. I think they pretty well encapsulate my views on all this. This isn't a thread for hashing out politics. It isn't a thread (or forum for that matter) for arguing over whether voting republican makes you a racist by default, or whether voting democrat makes you anti-gun by default, or what the proper political choice is for a pro-gun leftist who thinks the democrats are too weak in the knees to enact real reform. If that's what you want you're going to have to go somewhere other than TFR for it.

I am fully aware that TFR is more than just a gun forum. It's a community that has in a lot of ways grown beyond the narrow confines of shooting as a hobby. We've got chat threads and video game threads and cooking threads and cold war / airpower threads and all sorts of non gun poo poo floating around in here. That's great.

But as much as I love that this is that kind of community, it doesn't have to be the ONLY online community that people have. If you find the no politics rule stifling there are other communities out there on the internet that you can go participate in and get your politics fix. Some of them are right here on Something Awful, and if those don't do it for you there is the whole rest of the internet to go look around. Here's a secret: I don't only post on Something Awful. Yes, I cheat on you all. The SAF gets the vast majority of my actual posting by several orders of magnitude, but there are some things that I have to get elsewhere.

That's not a bad thing. Politics is an absolutely worthy thing to discuss.

Just not here.

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

We all got it coming, kid


NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

Well, part of the complaint about issues being split along culture war / two-party lines is this:

Guns are on the losing side of that split. As a cultural issue, they've been hijacked by the Republican party, a party that has become increasingly, openly racist and vitriolic. This has, in turn, tainted the public perception of the hobby.

And I don't think you're going to see a point at which the Dems reclaim it as an issue. Why would they? The people who the DNC sees as its core voters don't like guns, and a number of their biggest donors don't either. If there comes a point in time where the DNC starts playing as good and as dirty as the RNC when it comes to the spin game? The hobby is hosed.

That, and permitting fascists into spaces their victims reside absolutely leads to an outcome with more fascists.

This is not a viable strategy as has been demonstrated time after time, nor is burying one's head in the sand. Nor is tone policing those victims.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Move the topic along and let’s get this thread back to its original intent. If you want to argue deplatforming and tone policing do it elsewhere.

Carbohydrates
Nov 22, 2006

Listen, Mr. Kansas Law Dog.
Law don't go around here.
Savvy?


Did anyone get a response back from Aero about the Rhodesian poo poo?

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



I didn’t. It’s been three business days now so I assume they’re just ignoring me. Did they ever respond to the people hitting them up on twitter etc?

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"



Fun Shoe

I really want to hear a response. I didn’t know Rhodesia was a thing until this forum, but drat if it isn’t a disgusting part of history.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

Also no response, but it's only been 1 business day.

I suspect they are going to either duck the questions entirely and enjoy their sold out status and let it die off quietly or, worse, double the gently caress down even if they never address it by restocking and continuing to sell.

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

We all got it coming, kid


Cyrano4747 posted:

Move the topic along and let’s get this thread back to its original intent. If you want to argue deplatforming and tone policing do it elsewhere.

Consider this, I know it's been posted before in this thread but it's extremely relevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P55t6eryY3g#t=516s

Timestamp of 8m 35s if the link screws up.

Also Aero will either ignore it and (ideally) not do a fash lower again, or offer some half assed "lol oops we didn't know golly willikers" apology.

Who knows maybe they'll go full PSA and be all "lol triggered much you cuck carebear? maga is going to stack SJWs in the street" because 2020 hell world

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007

Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade




I'd be willing to bet that Aero will sell everything off as quickly as possible and let it die quietly, never to speak of it again.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010

Who protects?


Grimey Drawer

Captain Log posted:

I really want to hear a response. I didn’t know Rhodesia was a thing until this forum, but drat if it isn’t a disgusting part of history.

I was a more a gun nerd before a history nerd, so for a while I thought it was just FAL worship, no clue what rhodesia actually was, other than some old state. I probably didn't even know what colonialism was. Then I actually took the time to look up what rhodesia was, and it was like an "Oh no... Oh nooo..."

I never got the short shorts, but I can get the FAL worship, and the camo is kinda cool in a void I guess? Obviously I can't get nostalgia for such a state though.

Like, if you look at the rhodesian army, disregarding the historical context, it's kinda cool. They had cool guns like the FALs, Hi-Powers, and Auto-5s with extended mags. Again, I don't get the short shorts, but sure cool guns are cool. But you can't just disregard the historical context.

If someone has a FAL with rhodesian camo, but isn't otherwise questionable, I won't think too much about it. If they have a god drat rhodesian flag for some reason? Or using rhodesian ethnic slurs? All sorts of alarm bells going.

Same kinda thing can be applied to nazi germany. There's no denying they had some cool guns. The StG 44 is the cornerstone of modern assault rifles, it's a cool design. So I won't think anyone that has an StG is a nazi by default, but if they also collect swastikas, then it's a pretty obvious nazi.

I personally avoid nazi guns, because for me personally, what cool designs they did have doesn't outweigh how lovely the users were. But again, I don't blame anyone if they really like some german design enough to ignore the waffenamt.


I'm curious about Brownell's response as well, but my chips go on them not knowing any better and just rather sweeping it under the rug.

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

THERE'S FASCISM IN MY GIANT ROBOT ANIMES


A friend of mine has a couple nazi guns he inherited from his grandfather, and when I asked him why he didn’t get rid of them he pointed out the reasonable argument that he didn’t want to deal with any of the loving people you’d expect to run into when you try to sell nazi merch.

That Works
Jul 21, 2006


Fun Shoe

Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

A friend of mine has a couple nazi guns he inherited from his grandfather, and when I asked him why he didn’t get rid of them he pointed out the reasonable argument that he didn’t want to deal with any of the loving people you’d expect to run into when you try to sell nazi merch.

I don't think Cyrano is that bad.

Proper Kerni ng
Nov 14, 2011



I too also in addition as well have yet to hear back from Aero. For what it's worth, their radio silence sounds pretty loud to me like they had someone pitch them Rhodeezy poo poo as one of their occasional themed builder sets and they weren't really aware of just how many corpses were in the baggage that comes with.

poeticoddity posted:

Does it help?
Does dehumanizing people who'd dehumanize you make them change?
Do you feel better from doing it?
Does it improve anything?

I don't really give a poo poo about the feelings of anyone I don't know personally, because I don't have the bandwidth for it.
I just have trouble believing that someone's more likely to consider your viewpoint if you intentionally dehumanize them than if you don't.

Natzi ain't got no humanity. I have zero surplus effort to invest in "viewpoints" with people who increasingly aren't even bothering to wait until they're alone with each other to spout off what they really think about Those People, I just write them off as failures in The Human Experiment and refuse to do business with them or have any contact with them whenever possible. They chose the Racist Thug Lyfe, it didn't choose them.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Grimey Drawer

Coming back to the Varusteleka thing, they did host a lecture on the Rhodesian bush war by a veteran from the conflict, who was part of the Selous Scouts among other units.

https://www.varusteleka.com/en/even...24-8-2019/62380

David Scott-Donolan "had the unique mission of locating and following the tracks of Communist insurgents infiltrating the borders of Rhodesia and attack the civilian population", according to his own website. He also served for years in the South African Special Forces and other forces in the region.

https://www.seattleweekly.com/news/rhode-warrior/

Some pretty big red flags there, at least regarding him specifically. I don't want to throw heavy guilt by association, since I don't know how the lecture was conducted or how heavy the "communist insurgents" rhetoric was.

KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 10:43 on May 21, 2020

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Collecting Nazi guns doesn’t make you a Nazi, any more than having a m91/30 makes you a Stalinist. I’ve dealt with that chunk of the gun owning public for years and while there’s sure as poo poo that element floating around it’s not the majority by a long shot.

If owning them freaks you out and you don’t want to do it that’s a personal decision.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

I don’t generally collect this kind of memorabilia, but I assure you the helmet, knives, bayonet, and Arisaka taken from a beach in the Pacific and smuggled back to the states by a great-uncle aren’t a sign of my undying allegiance to Hirohito.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Proper Kerni ng posted:

I too also in addition as well have yet to hear back from Aero. For what it's worth, their radio silence sounds pretty loud to me like they had someone pitch them Rhodeezy poo poo as one of their occasional themed builder sets and they weren't really aware of just how many corpses were in the baggage that comes with.

Sure but there’s also something to be said for knowing how to own up to your fuckup. Right now Volkswagen is on an apology tour for a racist ad that made it out.

Now VW has a motherfucking problematic history to say the least involving actual, literal, historical Nazis and no bullshit concentration camp labor. If someone wants to write VW off as a brand they’ll own that’s pretty understandable. And this latest dumbassery sure doesn’t help. But, their statements regarding it are also pretty unequivocal.

quote:


Stackmann and Heitmüller [head of marketing and head of diversity] described the video as an "insult to every decent person."
"We're ashamed of it and cannot explain how it came about. All the more reason for us to make sure we clear this up. And we will make the results and consequences of the investigation public," they added.

So, yeah. If I were in charge of Aero and this Rhodesia thing crossed my desk I’d dash out a quick twitter post or something along the lines of “wow, we weren’t aware of the history. Yeah that’s not good. We’re sorry about that, apartheid states don’t reflect the American values of equality and freedom that we hold dear. We won’t be making any more of those and we’re going to work hard to research historically themed items in the future to make sure it doesn’t happen again.”

If someone truly realizes they hosed up it’s no big deal to apologize and say you’ll try to do better.

Carbohydrates
Nov 22, 2006

Listen, Mr. Kansas Law Dog.
Law don't go around here.
Savvy?


Cyrano4747 posted:

Now VW has a motherfucking problematic history to say the least involving actual, literal, historical Nazis and no bullshit concentration camp labor. If someone wants to write VW off as a brand they’ll own that’s pretty understandable. And this latest dumbassery sure doesn’t help. But, their statements regarding it are also pretty unequivocal.
So the ad that the article is about is pretty bad, but:

quote:

Last year, VW apologized after CEO Herbert Diess used the expression "Ebit macht frei," or "Ebit sets you free," at a management event.
hooooly poo poo

chairface
Oct 28, 2007

No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.



That's a big yikes from me, dog.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.


Cyrano4747 posted:

So, yeah. If I were in charge of Aero and this Rhodesia thing crossed my desk I’d dash out a quick twitter post or something along the lines of “wow, we weren’t aware of the history. Yeah that’s not good. We’re sorry about that, apartheid states don’t reflect the American values of equality and freedom that we hold dear. We won’t be making any more of those and we’re going to work hard to research historically themed items in the future to make sure it doesn’t happen again.”

If someone truly realizes they hosed up it’s no big deal to apologize and say you’ll try to do better.
I would argue there's not much of an incentive for them to do that, because the gun-o-sphere is filled with terrible people and a response from racist idiots about how they "knuckled under to some SJW snowflakes" and "it's about history not racism", and "that's the last Aero Precision I'll ever buy" is going to be far more likely and far more loud than a "thank you" from decent human beings that like guns and that don't want to be associated with Rhodesia.

The number of gun buyers who actively dislike a tribute to a hosed up racist government has got to be tiny compared to the massive number that don't care, and the smaller but still too large for comfort number that are all about aryans in short shorts carrying FALs.

We've said it in TFR for more than a decade: gun owners are the worst brand to represent.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



stealie72 posted:

I would argue there's not much of an incentive for them to do that, because the gun-o-sphere is filled with terrible people and a response from racist idiots about how they "knuckled under to some SJW snowflakes" and "it's about history not racism", and "that's the last Aero Precision I'll ever buy" is going to be far more likely and far more loud than a "thank you" from decent human beings that like guns and that don't want to be associated with Rhodesia.

The number of gun buyers who actively dislike a tribute to a hosed up racist government has got to be tiny compared to the massive number that don't care, and the smaller but still too large for comfort number that are all about aryans in short shorts carrying FALs.

We've said it in TFR for more than a decade: gun owners are the worst brand to represent.

Eh, honesty I doubt they’d get blow back or boycotts etc. I mean yeah you’d see some twitter stuff or maybe an arfcom thread about how they gave in to “sjw snowflakes” etc. It doesn’t take much imagination to picture that. But in the end I doubt they would lose business. I suspect if nothing else they would be painted as the victims of over sensitive liberals.

Carbohydrates posted:

So the ad that the article is about is pretty bad, but:

hooooly poo poo

Yeah that was kind of a huge thing when it happened.

jwang
Mar 31, 2013


JFC Tek Mats, why do you guys have to go all in for Trump? Why are most of the gun industry so blindingly adherent to party lines?

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Grimey Drawer

stealie72 posted:

I would argue there's not much of an incentive for them to do that, because the gun-o-sphere is filled with terrible people and a response from racist idiots about how they "knuckled under to some SJW snowflakes" and "it's about history not racism", and "that's the last Aero Precision I'll ever buy" is going to be far more likely and far more loud than a "thank you" from decent human beings that like guns and that don't want to be associated with Rhodesia.

Look at the amount of poo poo that was thrown at Benchmade for helping the police destroy some confiscated guns, and for supporting some Democrats on loosening restrictions on knife ownership.

And Benchmade is explicitly in support of the NRA, police, all of that. They still had to basically grovel and get on their knees and promise it would never happen again.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.


jwang posted:

JFC Tek Mats, why do you guys have to go all in for Trump? Why are most of the gun industry so blindingly adherent to party lines?
Because one party's fundraising call is "we must ban these weapons of war" and the other's is "from my cold dead hands?"

See also, the NRA spending 30 years aligning gun ownership with one party.

Arcella
Dec 16, 2013

Shiny and Chrome


KozmoNaut posted:

Look at the amount of poo poo that was thrown at Benchmade for helping the police destroy some confiscated guns, and for supporting some Democrats on loosening restrictions on knife ownership.

And Benchmade is explicitly in support of the NRA, police, all of that. They still had to basically grovel and get on their knees and promise it would never happen again.

In the land of the blind no guns the one-eyed knifed man is king.

SinistralRifleman
Oct 9, 2007


Remaining apolitical (aside from Gun Rights issues) publicly costs potential sales and reduces marketing opportunities. Legitimate advertising through social media is not available to gun companies. If they make a political post though it will get shared 10-100 times more than a post about the merits of their product. I’ve seen this first hand. Do a post arguing against bad legislation gets shared everywhere. Do a post about the merits and features of your product and it gets a fraction of the views.

I don’t care to defend Aero but if they sold a few hundred sets of Rhodesian camo, and got a few questioning emails about it, they’ll probably just ignore it because it was commercially successful and their core customer base likes it or doesn’t care. In a system that rewards being edgey or causing controversy, you guys are going to have an uphill battle changing people’s minds.

The Benchmade case is a good example of marketing being tone deaf. Advertising that you’re cutting up guns for the cops is going to look bad. And if it was the PD that posted it first Benchmade should have made it clear that this was confidential. Today any pro-law enforcement post or media is at risk of back lash as a percentage of gun owners are angry at LE for enforcing gun confiscation laws. Aimpoint just got roasted for this and I’ve seen others.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Grimey Drawer

For context of Benchmade basically having to grovel to get back into good graces with their customers:

https://www.recoilweb.com/benchmade...ain-147462.html

When such a big part of your customer base is composed of reactionary right wingers, you either have to be extremely carefully apolitical, or you have to talk their language and thus pander to them.

It's not quite as bad in Europe, but I still have to choose between the neutral-seeming vendors who have no directly political stuff, or vendors with a clear and obvious right-wing appeal. I don't know of any explicitly leftist surplus/knife/gun vendors. Especially not guns, but that also a consequence of Denmark being a "guns are for hunting, target shooting, police, military and NOTHING ELSE" country. Knives are theoretically ok to carry unless you're going to a bar or a concert or football match or something, but we all know it also depends on how white you are.

KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 17:24 on May 21, 2020

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

We all got it coming, kid


SinistralRifleman posted:

The Benchmade case is a good example of marketing being tone deaf. Advertising that you’re cutting up guns for the cops is going to look bad. And if it was the PD that posted it first Benchmade should have made it clear that this was confidential. Today any pro-law enforcement post or media is at risk of back lash as a percentage of gun owners are angry at LE for enforcing gun confiscation laws. Aimpoint just got roasted for this and I’ve seen others.

What did Aimpoint do?

SinistralRifleman
Oct 9, 2007


Capn Beeb posted:

What did Aimpoint do?

Just a basic National Law Enforcement Day Post. Comments section was filled with negative responses.

My point was that anything pro-law enforcement is going to piss off part of your customers now. I think companies are going to start catering to specific factions of the firearms market more and more than they already do.

SinistralRifleman fucked around with this message at 18:11 on May 21, 2020

Capn Beeb
Jun 29, 2003

We all got it coming, kid


SinistralRifleman posted:

Just a basic National Law Enforcement Day Post. Comments section was filled with negative responses.

My point was that anything pro-law enforcement is going to piss off part of your customers now. I think companies are going to start catering to specific factions of the firearms market more and more than they already do.

Yeah, pretty much. I wonder how long it'll be until companies just go hog wild with pro cop rhetoric and suggest their products aren't fit for civilian hands.

Problematic Soup
Feb 18, 2007

My soup has malfunctioned?



HS Precision published an endorsement from Lon Horiuchi, so maybe some are nearly already there.

poeticoddity
Jan 14, 2007
"How nice - to feel nothing and still get full credit for being alive." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five

Man, this thread moves fast. I fell asleep early last night and after I got off the clock today, there were like 60 posts.

Gnoman posted:

Based on his Facebook, he actively supported and worked with Trump's campaign. That's the only thing I can find on him that would be objectionable.

While I find that distasteful, it's not enough for me actually be bothered.

Mambo No. 5 posted:

He called a 5.56 AK a "tranny" in one of his videos, and the AR vs AK guys videos got increasingly homophobic. I stopped watching him after I found those.

I was watching the AR vs AK guys videos as background noise while drinking and coding, so I completely missed that. Thanks for the heads up.

Proper Kerni ng posted:

I too also in addition as well have yet to hear back from Aero. For what it's worth, their radio silence sounds pretty loud to me like they had someone pitch them Rhodeezy poo poo as one of their occasional themed builder sets and they weren't really aware of just how many corpses were in the baggage that comes with.


Natzi ain't got no humanity. I have zero surplus effort to invest in "viewpoints" with people who increasingly aren't even bothering to wait until they're alone with each other to spout off what they really think about Those People, I just write them off as failures in The Human Experiment and refuse to do business with them or have any contact with them whenever possible. They chose the Racist Thug Lyfe, it didn't choose them.

Kudos for reaching out to Aero.
I'm not going to suggest that anyone burn time or emotional bandwidth dealing with people they wouldn't normally deal with just because they're loud bigots, but I still believe there's value in at least some circumstances to let people or companies know, "Hey, I'd normally associate/do business with you, but I won't because [whatever lovely thing they're doing/saying/selling]."

The flip side of this also works, too. "I'm willing to do business with you because I'm not embarrassed to be associated with your company and your marketing isn't offensive," is something you can toss in the comment line on an online order form in 30 seconds.

stealie72 posted:

Because one party's fundraising call is "we must ban these weapons of war" and the other's is "from my cold dead hands?"

See also, the NRA spending 30 years aligning gun ownership with one party.

I've lost long-term friends because I said I couldn't in good conscience vote for Democrats until they stopped pushing gun control. I loving hate this two-party system bullshit.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Ok, minor Aero update. The inquiry I sent before was responded to with a request to send it to a different email address. So they haven't ignored me at least. I re-emailed to that other address. We'll see if they respond.

FWIW I dropped both the "I'm a historian" and the "I'm an admin on a gun forum" cards, so we'll see if that means anything.

edit: gently caress it, here's the full text. Aero if you google this reach out, I'm genuine in wanting to talk and hear your side of this.

Cyrano posted:

Sirs,

Good afternoon.  I hope you are doing well and staying safe in this current crisis.

I am a historian and an administrator on a gun forum.  Up until recently Aero has been a go to recommendation for my users, both personally and organically within the community, due to both the high quality of your products and the generally apolitical nature of your company. Many of the gun owners in our community have been dismayed by the political actions taken by other firearms manufacturers and Aero has always been a breath of fresh air in that regard.  Firearms ownership and rights are, in my personal opinion and I would venture to say that of the majority of my posters, a fundamental right that goes beyond partisan political differences.  

The recent release of the Rhodesia lowers and the ad copy accompanying them has caused quite a stir.  I'm wondering if you have any comment about this?  Are you aware that Rhodesia was a controversial state to say the least, with a deplorable human rights records and domestic policies that can be compared unfavorably to apartheid era South Africa?  Frankly it's not something I would expect a company to want to be associated with.  If you're willing to talk I'd like some background on why this lower was released and what the thought process was.  

Personally, from where I stand now, it looks like a decision made out of a lack of detailed knowledge about the historical context.  Unfortunately, the internet being the internet many are already ascribing far more nefarious motives.  I believe and hope that this is not true, and that this is simply an unfortunate misstep.  

I own five rifles built up on Aero lowers.  You have been a great company in the past and I have never hesitated to recommend the "pooping man" (put a nickle on the top of your logo if you haven't already) lowers to anyone building a modern sporting rifle.  You make a high quality product and I would like to continue recommending it, but I have to admit that releasing a line of Rhodesian-themed lowers troubles me greatly. 

Thank you for your time.  You can reach me either via this email address or via phone at <lol no not posting that>

--Dr. Cyrano4747

McNally
Sep 12, 2007

Ask me about Proposition 305


Well, now I know why they announced a new logo is in the works.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



Cyrano4747 posted:

Ok, minor Aero update. The inquiry I sent before was responded to with a request to send it to a different email address. So they haven't ignored me at least. I re-emailed to that other address. We'll see if they respond.

FWIW I dropped both the "I'm a historian" and the "I'm an admin on a gun forum" cards, so we'll see if that means anything.

edit: gently caress it, here's the full text. Aero if you google this reach out, I'm genuine in wanting to talk and hear your side of this.

I'm genuinely curious, what *is* your doctorate in, Cyrano?

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



SwissArmyDruid posted:

I'm genuinely curious, what *is* your doctorate in, Cyrano?

History.

Mambo No. 5
Feb 24, 2009

Admiral Parry "Terror" Sornis,
Dead Birds Society


Change your name to Rev. Dr. Cyrano4747

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FruitNYogurtParfait
Mar 29, 2006

Sion lied. Deadtear died for our sins. #VengeanceForDeadtear
#PunGateNeverForget
#ModLivesMatter

The Esteemed Honorable Rev. Dr. Cyrano4747, Esq.

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