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mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

Aero has gone from my next lower provider to a company I won’t touch.

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taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

I kinda expected the bit about their line of custom camo lowers to turn into something like "You might not realize that we have been producing a series of 40 camo patterns, but as a historian I'm sure you realize most of them were used by racist and evil people"

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


CainFortea posted:

Remember this was in their email.

"Our Rhodesian Brushstroke Builder Set includes double feature by Republic Rifle, an homage to the classic camouflage pattern used by military forces in Southern Africa dating back to the 1960s. This unique take features individual Rhodesian "Brushstroke" and Rhodesian "Nights" patterns with optional matching furniture.

While the Rhodesian Brushstroke variant is the more traditional representation of this pattern, Republic Rifle also delivered with Rhodesian Nights, a modernized color-way variation that mimics more current covert style camos. The Rhodesian Brushstroke Camo pattern has recently seen a resurgence in popularity, and you can be one of the first to get your hands on it for your custom AR build!"

So when informed that it's become more popular lately because of racism, they talk about how long they've been selling guns and the fact that they're not historians. Oh and MARPAT uses features of it? What, the colors?

I'm still not convinced they were like "Hell yea lets put this out there to commemorate murdering black people" but their handling of it sure is disappointing.

That's what I was just going to say. For reference (If you want I can forward you the email cyrano if you're not on their mailing list I forwarded it to your e-mail)


Edit: Added second screenshot

I mean, it's the REPUBLIC RIFLE. Because y'know camo patterns have their own republics, and not RHODESIA. I mean I could give them a -bit- of leeway and say the VP guy didn't know what's up maybe, but someone CERTAINLY did. Everything in the email directly contradicts that statement. I mean if it's just a brushstroke pattern and not Rhodesia, what's with the Brushstroke Africa logo?

BeAuMaN fucked around with this message at 05:43 on May 23, 2020

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

Cyrano, your initial Email to them gave them several outs to walk away and was pretty adoring of their company, and their response was essentially "I absolutely refuse to denounce Rhodesia, also you don't know poo poo about history and the Marine Corps, Doctor."

By the way, that sentence they wrote about the marines evaluating rhodesian brushstroke is a copy/paste from Wikipedia, and the citation on Wikipedia is a book written by a Rhodesian Air Force veteran, and the link is broken.

Here is the description of the book they use for that citation:

"Written by a serving Air Force pilot, this is one man's story of the Thirteen-Year bush-war fought in Rhodesia. It was a contest between those seeking to retain western democracy and those who sought to take power through the barrel of a gun."

How does that scan positively to you with regard to Aero's response?

Carbohydrates
Nov 22, 2006

Listen, Mr. Kansas Law Dog.
Law don't go around here.
Savvy?


edit: off topic.

I have made up my mind on Aero based on their response and it is not favorable. Thanks for following up, Cyrano.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

It's a little bitty place.

...Okay, I'll just wipe it off, that's all. Just a little town.



This is to me unsatisfactory because it would have been incredibly easy to toss off "And, of course, we as a company denounce white supremacy and apartheid in all its forms" or words to that effect to make that a perfectly adequate walk-back, but they took the long way around that. Bummed I picked up that aero lower literally minutes before learning about this, and it'll be the last money they see from me.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

BeAuMaN posted:

That's what I was just going to say. For reference (If you want I can forward you the email cyrano if you're not on their mailing list)


(below the screenshoted portion lists their products)

I mean, it's the REPUBLIC RIFLE. Because y'know camo patterns have their own republics, and not RHODESIA. I mean I could give them a -bit- of leeway and say the VP guy didn't know what's up maybe, but someone CERTAINLY did. Everything in the email directly contradicts that statement. I mean if it's just a brushstroke pattern and not Rhodesia, what's with the Brushstroke Africa logo?

Yeah. They're playing anyone who buys their "just an artistic aesthetic" argument for a dupe.

Snake Dance
Jan 5, 2020


What absolute trash. I was tossing around the idea of building an AR vs buying a premade, and Aero is completely out of the running now.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010

Who protects?


Grimey Drawer

I wonder if they consider holocaust acknowledgement "historical activism". Maybe the next camo they add to their builder thing will be waffen SS poo poo.

jwang
Mar 31, 2013


Guess it's going to be Unbranded AR from now on for me then. Also, I probably should dig in deeper to find more OEM parts makers, in case another one of these situations pop up.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"



Fun Shoe

I thought they were going the, "We have a lot of camp patterns and we shouldn't have said Rhodesia" route.

Instead the email came off patronizing.

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


mlmp08 posted:

Yeah. They're playing anyone who buys their "just an artistic aesthetic" argument for a dupe.

Following up: Apparently Republic Rifle is a cerokote provider which Aero uses:
https://reprif.com/product/ar-15-ar-10/

(Not that it changes much of the marketing e-mail promoting the rifle as a homage to Rhodesia)

BeAuMaN fucked around with this message at 07:09 on May 23, 2020

Steve Balmer
Jun 25, 2008

DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS





DEVELOPERS


Capn Beeb posted:

Something tells me the alphabet agencies would lean hard on a vaguely leftist armory.

Then lean harder when some pissmad bootlicking chud keeps reporting them for anything.

Maybe Rocket Armory can fill the void left by Aero.

just calling everybody's attention back to these guys. also as a reminder aero owns ballistic advantage.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



"Hey, could you explain to me why you covered your gun parts in swastikas and SS runes?"

"I'm sorry, we're not historians. We don't have any intent behind our camo patterns. Please understand how much we fight the LIEberals and their evil SJW politicians."

jwang
Mar 31, 2013


Republic Rifles not only does Rhodesian camo cerakote, but they also call USPS "freedom hating communists". The fact that these guys don't realize how essential USPS is for some people makes me really mad. Hell, even in cities a lot of shipping depend on USPS to make that last mile delivery.

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


jwang posted:

Republic Rifles not only does Rhodesian camo cerakote, but they also call USPS "freedom hating communists". The fact that these guys don't realize how essential USPS is for some people makes me really mad. Hell, even in cities a lot of shipping depend on USPS to make that last mile delivery.

Also #rhodie apparently


All looks pretty skeezy to me.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



Guess they’re just ignorant little children. Definitely no knowledge or intent here.

poeticoddity
Jan 14, 2007
"How nice - to feel nothing and still get full credit for being alive." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five

jwang posted:

Republic Rifles not only does Rhodesian camo cerakote, but they also call USPS "freedom hating communists". The fact that these guys don't realize how essential USPS is for some people makes me really mad. Hell, even in cities a lot of shipping depend on USPS to make that last mile delivery.

I've always found the bulk of USPS-hate to be baffling. (Excluding people being pissed when they do a poo poo job, which has included me at multiple times.)
They're explicitly required to exist per the U.S. constitution. Chill.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Grimey Drawer

poeticoddity posted:

I've always found the bulk of USPS-hate to be baffling. (Excluding people being pissed when they do a poo poo job, which has included me at multiple times.)
They're explicitly required to exist per the U.S. constitution. Chill.

The USPS is an easy target, for a number of reasons. They represent federal spending and taxes and they are literally representatives of the federal government in person, who by their very function are required to know where people live, so you've got the fear of a national registry on top of that.

They're in competition with the Captains of Industry running UPS, FedEx and so on, so you've got the crazy libertarian angle covered.

And that's before you get into the whole racist angle of providing service to all Americans as equally as possible including minorities, and letting these people vote by mail.

Any business that hates on a national postal service should be regarded with a whole heaping of skepticism. Same as anyone who wants to keep people from voting.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



mlmp08 posted:

Cyrano, your initial Email to them gave them several outs to walk away and was pretty adoring of their company,

That was intentional. I’ve always found emails worded with polite neutrality edging on positivity get responses with poo poo like this vs a more aggressive approach off the bat. Have they responded to your email yet?

You can judge their response for yourself.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

No response. So they didn’t engage beyond a bad deflection to your Email and have so far refused to acknowleedge a more blunt and to the point Email.

I didn’t come out swinging at them. But it was basically “Rhodesia was a nation built on white supremacy. Maybe you didn’t know that. Here is proof (historical resources). What is and was your intent with this product? Do you intend to address this going forward?”

That was enough for dead silence (so far) in return.

5er
Jun 1, 2000




Hashtag rhodie? What in the gently caress.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Grimey Drawer

Yeah, that's pretty blatant pandering to white supremacists, like foghorn racism.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

TIL hashtag rhodie is also for rhododendron enthusiasts.

LingcodKilla
Dec 28, 2002

I ate too much crab and transformed into this.


gently caress em. Someone noticed this company but I dont think anyone owns anything from them who knows.

stealie72 posted:

Zero idea of their quality is ok, but this lower maker goes out of it's way to talk about being LGBT friendly, so is probably not all that chuddy: https://rocket-armory.com/Model-15-...ower-p143569499

Why Choose Us?

As an organization, we eschew the macho, hyper-masculine, military-inspired nature of the modern small-arms trade. We strive to be welcoming to women, racial minorities, the LGBT+ community, and other like-minded people. To that end, Rocket Armory partners with organizations who share our vision of a gun industry grounded in camaraderie instead of division.

For every firearm we sell, $1 will be donated to Walk The Talk America, a 501 (c)(3) non-profit organization. Their mission is to reduce incidents of suicide by firearms, gun negligence through education and proactive programs that identify risks, raise awareness, and provide solutions to those who choose to own firearms responsibly and the public at large.

That Works
Jul 21, 2006


Fun Shoe

Yeah I didn't know about Rocket before last week but if I need another lower I'll snag one from them for solidarity if nothing else.

No immediate plans for an AR build tho but you know how that goes...

ThinkFear
Sep 14, 2007



I have "enough" ars at the moment, but they seem like good dudes and I like their logo.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

It's a little bitty place.

...Okay, I'll just wipe it off, that's all. Just a little town.



I really like that rollstamp.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"



Fun Shoe

Alright, so I slept on the Rhodesia message to see how I felt in the morning.

I'm going to highlight the parts of the email that really bother me -
-----------------------------------------
"To make sure we are clear here, we did not make a Rhodesian themed lower. We used the popular Rhodesian Brushstroke...None of these finishes have been done with a motive behind them." - Seriously? That sentence makes my head hurt. We did not make a Rhodesian themed lower, just a Rhodesian Brushstroke lower?!

"To tie historical context to it and assume our intentions have anything to do with the history of Rhodesia itself is quite the stretch." - Condescending as gently caress, especially to an actual PhD historian.

"Did you know the US Armed Forces have actually used Rhodesian Camo in specific applications? The MARPAT digicam used by our US forces includes blended elements from Rhodesian Brushstroke. In the early 2000’s, the USMC evaluated Rhodesian Brushstroke as one of the 3 best military grade camo patters and actually considered adopting it. Much like us, none of this was done with any historical significant reference to Rhodesia." - They start dropping wikipedia facts, then say there is no historical significance? Which one is it?

"We are machinists, engineers, marketers and firearms enthusiast. We are not historical activists." - Then why were you trying to talk about historical events earlier?

"I think it will generate some interesting and enlightening conversation." - That rubs me the wrong way. It sounds snide considering the earlier stuff said.
-----------------------------------------

With all that said, I'd like to chalk this up to a VP being an rear end in a top hat, not an entire company getting behind Rhodesia. But with all the other Rhodesia stuff that other posters have uncovered, I cannot think that to be the case.

Do I think they are worse than what some other companies have done? That's hard to quantify. But that guy was given a thousand outs in the conversation by Cyrano. He took none of them and was just generally sounded contradictory and condescending. Never once did he actually say something like, "What happened in Rhodesia was awful" or anything to that tune.

I put a lot of effort into not being quick to take a stance in the age of hyper information. But this is hard to ignore. I don't think I'll be buying anymore poo poo from Aero.

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


Cyrano4747 posted:

That was intentional. I’ve always found emails worded with polite neutrality edging on positivity get responses with poo poo like this vs a more aggressive approach off the bat. Have they responded to your email yet?

You can judge their response for yourself.

Yeah that's what I figured. It's usually more important to get a response at all for the first contact. I'll probably try to poke at them.

BeAuMaN fucked around with this message at 20:16 on May 23, 2020

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



It's very, very easy to simply say "We do not support white supremacy and our choice to use this camo is not related to the politics of Rhodesia." The fact that they carefully stepped around it rather than acknowledging the point of your email at all is extremely telling and much less neutral than it seems on its face.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.


Yeah, for real. "Man, we just thought it was a cool retro camo pattern and didnt really dig deeper than that. We don't condone a racist apartheid state, but think it looks rad" and leaving it at that would have been a better answer.

Edit: Nevermind, I dug around on their facebook page and they know their market. Goddammit.

stealie72 fucked around with this message at 20:11 on May 23, 2020

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Hair Elf

Arcella posted:

Sounds like you could just call it “Brushstroke Camo” instead of “Rhodesian Brushstroke Camo” just like you’d call it “Blurred Edge” instead of “Nazi Blurred Edge”

Yeah it would have been super easy to just do this and I don't think anyone would have cared. Brushstroke or even African Camo would have worked fine as a name and would have raised significantly fewer eyebrows. It does look cool!

Fortunately for me I'm not interested in ARs either way!

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004


Nap Ghost

stealie72 posted:

Edit: Nevermind, I dug around on their facebook page and they know their market. Goddammit.

Yeah........

Even for the Rhodesia fans, the Aero guys can't help but be pissy and juvenile toward people who want to buy the things, but are annoyed by them selling out in hours.

At least I got to read mocking comments about how Rhodesian camo is so effective, that you can't even find it on a map these days.

BeAuMaN
Feb 18, 2014

I'M A LEAD FARMER, MOTHERFUCKER!


mlmp08 posted:

At least I got to read mocking comments about how Rhodesian camo is so effective, that you can't even find it on a map these days.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



The FB page has white supremacists openly posting memes about “slotting floppies.” And a dude with this profile picture:

Neorxenawang
Jun 9, 2003


Who is that? Google reverse image search doesn't turn anything up, and it looks like a random soldier in a US WW1 uniform to me.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.


chitoryu12 posted:

“slotting floppies.”
Had to look up what that is. What the gently caress? Why is there Rhodesian War racist slang being used in goddamn 2020.

Just...gently caress. Sometimes I hate that I love guns/shooting so much.

The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.


That expression sounds British in origin. Brits are the only ones I've heard use the term "slotting" for shooting people.

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LingcodKilla
Dec 28, 2002

I ate too much crab and transformed into this.


Floppies like flip flops foot wear the natives most likely wore?

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