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Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

I wish the left-leaning ( or even politically neutral ) gun owners were nearly as vocal as the people who are at best, wehraboos, and at worst, think Hitler was ahead of his time.

Trouble is that even if you find yourself in a community that is somewhat accepting of left-leaning attitudes, you can't get too loud before you run into "keep your dirty communism out of my god given guns!" So the left is stuck as a permanently opressed minority in the gun world.

NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

Honestly, people should also post about firearms manufacturers and poo poo that do good things as well 'cause it would be nice to hear about some group that supports a dog rescue or donates a share of their profits to starving artists or something. It would be good knowing it isn't all racism, all the way down.

I was thinking about doing something along these lines, but even less related to the thread, as it's not related to racism/nazism/etc, and about the Canadian industry rather than the American industry.

Marstar has a bit of a rap as a shop to avoid in Canada. The owner, John Marstar, was infamously bad at customer service, excessively rude and unhelpful to any customers that had any issues. They also have a bad history of selling improperly converted .308 garands, with some being converted poorly enough to be dangerous to fire.

Good news though! The employees bought the shop from John Marster and he's no longer running the show. Any interactions I have had with them since have been notably better.

I had a comically representative experience where I took a gamble and ordered something while John Marstar was still around, knowing what I was getting into. The item didn't work out for me, because of a fit issue, so I tried to return it and pay the return shipping, but he would refuse to accept a return. This was around the same time of the change of ownership, so my customer support request got handed off to one of the employees instead, who was more than happy to fully refund it. So I took the refund and bought a couple new mags from them instead that I couldn't find anywhere else. Those worked out well.

I haven't noticed any blatant nazi stuff in the Canadian gun market, yet. Maybe chuds are better about hiding that stuff up here. Lots of anti-Trudeau stuff though, naturally.

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Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

Stonewall wasn't that long ago- and if gays were still an acceptable Other to gently caress with, the cops would still be doing it the same way they did it then. They seemingly still do everything they can to gently caress with transsexuals.

They just let nazis to do the dirty work for them now:
https://twitter.com/Morethanquirks/status/1140008358780506112

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Cessna posted:

I like to shoot. I learned how to shoot in the USMC and genuinely liked the time I spent on the range. I got good at it, consistently shooting Expert.

My personal politics have gone from centrist to liberal to leftist in the past decade, largely in response to watching a large part of my country lose their minds.

I am seriously contemplating getting a concealed carry permit. I’m a big guy and can fight, but I can’t fight someone else with a firearm. I’m white, my wife is not. I have no desire for us to be a target of a hate crime. I know the odds are slim, but - well, things seem to be getting worse rather than better.

I have no desire to go to the firing range near my work. I have no desire to go back to a place where I hear about how “Killary” totally needs to be “Second Ammendmented.” Yeah, that was overheard on my last trip there.

If someone wants to start a sane firing range in Colorado let me know so I can back your kickstarter.

You might be able to find some fellow Coloradans that know how to shoot guns while avoiding chuds here and here.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Ignorance is no longer an option. It never really was an option, but I used to think ignoring it would make it peter out. No one wants to believe fascists are regaining normalcy.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Shaocaholica posted:

So in large parts of asia there is a culture of local race supremacy. Look at Japan. And yes, they did some horrible things in the past but I don't think the culture of race supremecy is dead in their society after surrendering and is still strong in other places too like China. But I also don't think their version of race supremacy calls for the extermination of other races. So can the idea of race supremacy exist without also being genocidal? I'm not saying its a good thing but we seem to be calling everyone with a race superiority complex also genocidal.

If you're talking about a multicultural society, then you're creating societal classes defined by ethnicity. Sure they might not be advocating genocide (yet), just making sure the inferior race gets table scraps while the superior races live like royalty, regardless of merit. This is apartheid.

If you're talking about a monocultural society, then that is the ideal of ethnic nationalism. A nation state that is defined by an ethnicity. Sure, you can think a state that is ethnically pure will have no one to discriminate against, but there is always an other. We're humans, we leak over borders, but even if you do manage to fit all the major ethnic groups into seperate states with secure borders, it's only a matter of time until those states start looking at more granular ethnic differences within.

E: Contextualizing an other as subhuman will always lead to genocide and/or slavery.

Jehde fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Aug 2, 2019

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



I'm an overly principled person. I believe strongly in personal liberty and the freedom of expression. I used to sincerely believe in the absolute freedom of speech. I now appreciate hate speech laws, even if they can be ineffective. gently caress defending fascists.

Tremblay, besides your stance causing strong opposition, I would advise to tone down the sarcasm and speak a bit more plainly. This isn't a thread to hand wave poo poo with jokes. Sorry for backseat modding but being clear is important when talking about this poo poo.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



45 ACP CURES NAZIS posted:



they're literally trying to imply that all middle eastern immigrants are ISIS

This looks like a facebook meme some random chud would whip up to own the libs. The company pretty clearly produced their own promotional material about how they hired (one) afghani. The dude that posted the video in the thread did accuse someone randomly, but what they presented shouldn't just be ignored because of that.

So did the facebook meme actually come from the company? Was the promotional video a reactive "we pinky swear we're not racist" thing instead of a proactive "hey immigrants rule" thing? I have no reason to doubt the company would dive head first into culture war crap, that kinda seems to be their schtick to sell coffee, but we do have two pieces of competing evidence here. Anyone know the details behind either?

CCFR likes to promote the company, they always have a bag of their crap in the background of their videos. I don't care about coffee, but I do care about the CCFR, as they promote firearms education and rights really well. Wanna know how many degrees of chud we're talking here.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Slim Pickens posted:

Nope, it was their first go at that ad, which is why sites and tweets talking about it have broken links, like this one.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2017/02/02/black-rifle-coffee-takes-on-starbucks-were-hiring-10000-veterans-n2279945

They then deleted that and changed Hezbollah to just Howard Schultz



Unfortunately for them, though, the internet is forever and their xenophobia is saved for posterity. Not that their clientele give a poo poo.

Thanks for digging this up, helps putting it into a bit of context. Looks like that article was written in early 2017, and their immigrant promotional video was late 2017. Think it's pretty safe to assume the video was made in response to criticism from the ad.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



frunksock posted:

Can we do popular guntubers? Did iraqveteran8888 ever explain what all those 88s mean? I rewatched the Forgotten Weapons with Larry Vickers and the Rhodesian FAL and I don't see any signs Ian is uncomfortable. I see him nodding along and agreeing with Larry that it's sad that the Rhodesians lost, and then continuing to make future videos with him.
This is a habitual mannerism thing, not a white supremacist approval thing. Fairly sure Ian is nodding in response that he has received and understood what Larry has said, not that he agrees and supports with what he says. He does this in basically all the interviews he conducts. The extreme of this nodding mannerism is actually interjecting with "uh-huh" "sure" and other sorts of vague acknowledgments. It's common as hell amongst WASP type people here and it's something I catch doing myself and try to suppress. Ian can actually be a good interviewer in how neutral he is. He's not there to chat, he's there to get the insight of the interviewee.

However, he still gives Vickers a platform by featuring him in random stuff. Vickers is a notable name in firearm development history, and he can have insight to offer when he's not talking about "the good old days". But he is still a rhodesia nostalgist. Calling him a cold warrior is a good descriptor.

On the other hand, Karl, while registering magenta on the wehraboo scale, shows no signs of Nazi apologism or racism or anything. He uses what soap box he has, set next to Ian's gun jesus megachurch, to highlight the history of American internment of Japanese-Americans and murdering of Native Americans. He is the mythical unicorn of an anti-fascist wehraboo, I think.

A channel that's always seemed iffy to me is Military Arms Channel. His choice in aesthetic does not do him any favours. However as far as know there's nothing out there that substantiates him as a white supremacist or anything.

As for Iraqveteran8888:

Iraqveteran8888 posted:

Why did you choose "8888"?

The "8888" in the name is not what some people may think. When Eric was picking the name for the channel, he had his tour in Iraq on his mind as it was his biggest accomplishment at the time. "Iraqveteran" was taken of course, so he added "88" - the number of his favorite race car driver Dale Earnhardt Jr- but that was also unavailable. He then added "8888" and it was available, and it stuck. Had he known then what he knows now, he would have picked a different name.
Source

Ehhh...

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



mlmp08 posted:

Same with dudes in general being super sexist or quick to share their awful sexual creep desires.
Or just general misogyny. Get some dudes in a room together and they will say some poo poo. "Now that the women are gone we can talk about how terrible they are, because surely that is what men are supposed to do." Only way to stop this behaviour is to call it out, make people feel lovely for assuming bigotry.

Miso Beno posted:

God damnit now I can't use the broad arrow or the Cascadian flag?
The Doug is fine, but Cascadia is still a nationalist movement of sorts, atleast when you talk about independence and statehood. It's just bioregionalism based as opposed to ethnofascist nationalism. The racist ones having a pretty distinct flag makes it easy to tell them apart though. Broad arrows (atleast the british military stamp ones I'm thinking) are different enough from Tyr's rune I think, and as said before, it matters more how it's used.

Pitch posted:

Modern Asatru was invented in like 1973 as a Northern European heritage thing. There's almost complete overlap between Americans who claim to worship Thor in tyool 2019 and white supremacists, and the leftover are probably people who own every Avengers Funko Pop and I won't miss tarring them with that brush.
Maybe don't say this in a thread with a vehemently anti-racist dude that follows Asatru. It's like saying anyone with an anime avatar is a pedophile.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Well I ended up binging that. No wonder people hate gun enthusiasm beyond the whole "guns are scary" thing. I don't quite agree with how he ties anti gun control sentiment to racism so tightly though, as if they're codependent or something. Especially when you consider the racist origins of gun control itself, and the effect it has on populations today. I think he's projecting his personal bias a bit, setting off my own personal bias. However I wasn't aware of a couple things before listening to that audiobook.

I didn't realize the idiot that bombed the building in OK City was super into guns, with "I'm not touching you" racism coming later as a byproduct of his upbringing in the south and military. I previously ignorantly conflated him as a unabomber type, i.e. one of the domestic terrorist attacks that came before Columbine that wasn't relevant to the current problem of alt-right spree shooters. I admittedly fell victim to the narrative of modern spree shooters, i.e. being a unique problem of gun violence, starting with Columbine. Really Columbine was just the one that got catapulted by publicity. Why didn't the OK City fuckwad get the same sort of publicity as the Columbine dipshits?

I also hadn't heard about the Turner Diaries until like a couple months ago. I wasn't surprised by its existence, knowing what I know now of hard right conservative culture, but I was surprised I managed to miss it for so long. Supposedly this thing was selling like hot cakes at gun shows. Granted I've never actually been to a gun show, and I'm not in the states, but supposedly this nazi bible permeated through right-wing dominated gun culture, prophesying a gun control apocalypse. Like, it's no wonder someone would hate gun advocacy with a passion if they've heard of the Turner Diaries but never enjoyed plinking with friends, which I imagine describes some extremely online types.

While I was aware of the KKK and neo-nazi stuff, like it's hard to miss that in the grand scheme of things, I wasn't aware how persistent and in the shadows its been throughout history. Like literal secret Nazis having to keep their heads down during wartime because Hitler was ruining Nazism for Americans, and going on to murder American socialists with the aid of the police department. poo poo looks a bit too familiar.

The British Israelism stuff is kind of interesting, origin theories can be fascinating. It's also dumb as gently caress if you understand human migration patterns over history at all. It was a cute theory, but it's interesting how it got morphed into ethnoreligious supremacy once it hit Portland. Is there something in the water in Oregon or something?

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



To be fair, I was the one that conflated the two. I don't think the specificity is that important to the notion of Oregon being a sort of mecca of nazism.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



The War on Everyone audiobook linked above goes over Umberto Eco's points of how to define a fascist, and notably adds "humour" as an element, i.e. trolling. While it's much more relevant in the meme hell we live in now thanks to 4chan, apparently there's signs of this in historical regimes as well.

Is nationalism a necessary tenant of fascism? It's definitely a big part of most fascist regimes ever since nations became a thing, especially ethnonationalism, but is it really a prerequisite? Were feudal warlords fascist? Is it possible to be a globalist ethnofascist?

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



MohawkSatan posted:

Now when did I imply he'd be the one operating the guillotine?

Anyways, here's a great teaching moment. Let's talk about IDing possible fascists, using our very own poster Steve Balmer as an example.

First, we examine username as a quick thing to look at. Steve Ballmer is an actual person, a billionaire capitalist. Not much of note aside from donations to the JNF, one of those nice little organizations that 'buy' land for settlements in Israel. So we've got nothing here aside from a rich fuckbag that supports anti-Arab apartheid. This is possible ground level misdirection. Second, let's look at his very limited post history. What do we see? Anti-communist posting, whether direct attacks on posters, or saying leftist gun orgs would disarm everyone the instant they get a chance. Third is the 'anyone who hates fascism is authoritarian' poo poo, trying to separate authoritarianism and fascism, or make fascism be a thing all about central control.

What's this give us? Nothing concrete, but it begins to hint at something. A very long absence of any posting, only two gun posts in TFR, the rest attacking groups or individuals that would be the enemies of fascists. It tells us to watch this poster like a loving hawk, and wait for a dogwhistle or three to slip out. On the other hand, it might just tell us that SA poster Steve Balmer is an rear end in a top hat capitalist, or a dickbag troll that primarily likes to attack anything left of centre.

And this is how ID'ing the fash works. Modern fascists, in their own words, like to 'hide their power level'. They do and say things that push in a direction, but don't go outright. You can see this with Christian Identity/Identitarian/Ethnonationalist/etc groups like Identit Evropa or the National Policy Institute. They're not openly Nazis. They're not openly fascists. So you need to watch for signs that are deliberately hidden.

Thanks for this. I was taking the dude in good faith because I'm interested in the whole question of "when does authoritarianism become fascism?", but I missed the part where they're muddying fascism as not authoritarian.

Comparing communism to fascism is a pretty bad look if you know anything past Stalin and Hitler. This is some "the nazis were actually socialists" type poo poo.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Cyrano4747 posted:

Oh and this debate over “what really is a fascist” gets to the core of why I think it’s a dumb term to use in a modern political context at the very least and outright destructive to attempts to rein in modern assholes at worst. If you call your local Proud Boy a fascist you end up in a dumb argument over whether modern white identity politics is truly the same thing as the Hungarian Arrow Cross Party and then someone brings up how the Khmer Rouge were all about racial purity too and then we’re back to dumb Cold War talking points about economics.

It’s why I vastly prefer ethno-nationalist, authoritarian ethnic-nationalist if it fits, or just “racist fuckbag.”

Is a Proud Boy a fascist? I dunno but I’m sure the internet has tons of people willing to write long essays on various historical definitions of fascism and how we can categorize our village idiot.

Is a Proud Boy a racist fuckbag? Yes. Yes he is.

Just throwing that out there. This is a windmill I’ve long since stopped tilting at, but the last little bit in here is an illustrative example of why it’s not super helpful.

Disagree.

I've been thinking more about what separates a fascist from an authoritarian, and I think it's basically the belief in subhumanism. Ethnic genocide is the most common example of this, but it also applies to sexism, transphobia, religious persecution, we humans got all sorts of way to discriminate each other. But the crux is the belief that there is a certain subset of humans that are inferior to another, and thus should be treated as such, with stuff like slavery and genocide. Authoritarianism seeks to control people, but it's not necessarily out of some desire to differentiate between certain classes of human, it seeks to control all for control's sake.

I preface with that so that I can justifiably say that I think it is important to distinguish fascists from authoritarians.

Blanketing everyone as authoritarian is exactly what the alt-right wants. They want their brand of fascism to be palatable to the masses, authoritarianism is an easier pill to swallow than fascism to most. I think it's important to call a fascist a fascist, make it known that they are known as a fascist, so that they are dissuaded from harbouring fascist beliefs. I get that calling someone a fascist can be inflammatory, and sometimes just makes things worse (I was in a wikihole of the Tainanmen square massacre last night, PLA soldiers did not like being called fascists by the residents of Beijing they were invading), but the other option is appeasing fascists. And well, gently caress that.

I used to give a poo poo about the sanctity of the word nazi, as it's a similarly inflammatory label that's been pretty misused in recent history. I used to care that a Nazi was specifically the swastika-wearing, anti-semitical, germaniphilic brand of fascist, and calling a modern day American republican a nazi was just hysterical. I've since given up on that poo poo. Language evolves, sometimes there's a need for a word and there's no other convenient options in our vernacular. The word nazi has been successfully co-opted in modern colloquial english language to mean a modern fascist, the alt-right. I still try to differentiate them a bit using capitalization, but I realize the differentiate doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things, and hella falls on deaf ears.

stealie72 posted:

I know Cyranno has said that he doesn't really talk guns in his life, and I'm guessing there's a lot more like us.

Yup. I work in a modern office environment in the epicentre of a hippie mecca. Values currently professed by our corporate culture include things like cultural diversity, mental health awareness, and disability accessibility. You bet your rear end I keep my weekend range trips on the down low here. None of my work colleagues know about my gun enthusiasm, but they could probably figure it out if they knew me well enough and put two and two together. Like, I am a knife guy, I carry a Spyderco at the office, the ones that know I do so like to tease me about it, but love to ask to borrow it to cut zap straps for cables etc, I'm sure this schtick is familiar to other knife people. But, I do have other hobbies, and I'm a netflix slut, so I still have some stuff to talk about at the break room table. Actual friends know I'm a gun nut, but they typically just ignore the fact. I don't wear it on my sleeve, so casual acquaintances are none the wiser. Family knows I like to plink with guns, but they'd probably freak out if they seen my AR out of context.

Fifty Three posted:

Some people are, and that's why it's there. It sucks.

I've recently come across textbook examples of this in comments about photos of armed leftists. People show their true colours pretty well when wires cross in their brain.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



^^^ The recent kiwi attempt to confiscate assault weapons comes to mind. Jacinda Ardern didn't care who had the guns, she just wanted them all gone, because she believes that will improve everyone's lives. Sure you can pigeonhole it as differentiating "haves" vs "have nots" (and boy do anti-gun types love to dehumanize gun owners), but I think you get what I'm getting at here.

CainFortea posted:

I mean, it's a pretty well answered question really. Their very defensive response to people who say "Fascists suck" kinda seals the deal as well.

I don't mean to present fascists being distinctly subhumanist as some sort of eureka discovery, it's a pretty duh thing when laid out speaking plainly, but I was drawing a blank on it earlier, so. Regardless, I am personally interested in language and how the use of it evolves, and it can be important to lay things out like that in a thread about speaking plainly when analyzing the effects of fascism, and how some of the labels used can be misinterpreted.

However my perception is that the question (i.e. "what is fascism?") isn't actually frequently answered well, though. Most people seemingly just point to nationalism instead, which is jarring for me.

Everything about Canada is nationalist as all get out, like just look at Tim Hortons, or how the country shuts down if the national hockey team is in a gold medal game. However Canada subscribes to a somewhat unique brand of multicultural nationalism (or civic nationalism, more generally), not the usual ethno-nationalism that everyone hates. So Canada is most definitely insanely nationalist, but would anyone dare to call Canada fascist in its current guise? gently caress no. I disagree a lot with the current authoritarian administration, and there's definitely some passive genocides still going on with our indigenous populations, and the consumerist patriotism disgusts me to no end... But you gotta look a bit harder than usual to find bona fide fascists here. Any we do find, we just throw over the border for you guys to deal with instead.

Note I'm not trying to say nationalism is actually great or anything, it's still the investment of the populace into a singular identity, which has its obvious problems. I'm pretty ambivalent about nationalism vs globalism, like a lot of things. It just bugs me when people get really mad about "nationalism" (when they usually mean white supremacy) but won't hesitate being Mr/Mrs Patriot. Patriotism is just a euphemism for American nationalism.

Sorry for the political pedantry Cyrano, but it can be important when talking about these things to be clear. I hard disagree on your stance of not labelling fascists as such, and will echo that it's usually suspect when someone tries to avoid it.

The conversation of how we're at the point now where right-wing people get into guns, just because they think it's the right-wing thing to do, is a bit more relevant to the topic of the thread.

VVV Good word, thanks for it!

Jehde fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Aug 22, 2019

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



To extend this thread topic, as opposed to centrists blaming communists for Hitler's rise to power.

Mandalorian skulls. They're used in the exact same way as punisher skulls in the gun world. They haven't seemed to have penetrated the cop world much yet, but they're still used by nerds to make themselves feel badass. You see the odd gun in a Boba Fett paint job, or just Mandalorian skull morale patches. I bet this poo poo is gonna explode now after the popularity of the Disney+ show.

But, even though there is a pretty strong comparison to the punisher skull, do they carry the same authoritarian/fascist connotation? It's kind of a weird thing where it's just as cringy as a punisher skull, but because it's Star Wars, it's fine? Like it walks like a duck, but the quack is a bit funny sounding as it's making pew pew noises or something.

Like I doubt this lady is a chud with her custom gun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDSWDWNwVqU

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



It's more complicated than "those drat rowdy commies!" He's spot on about the parallels to modern politics, down to the criticisms.

Definitely more of a milhist topic though.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Yeah the ensemble for the prison heist episode was a grab bag of mediocrity, which I'd rather leave than take, but slotting them randomly into season 2 makes a tonne of sense. I did like that Bill Burr's special ability was having 5 Rugers on his person.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Dick Burglar posted:

I know it was covered somewhere in this thread already, but can someone remind me what exactly Black Rifle Coffee Co did that’s lovely and CHUDdy? I think they’re on/did a promotion for Gab, which I guess says enough as it is, but didn’t they post some other gross poo poo on social media?

Yup:

E: Welp, rehosted for blocked people:

Jehde fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Mar 1, 2020

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



You remind me I need to yell at my Information Commissioner because supposedly Public Safety doesn't know how to build a SQL query.

Civic duty is important, but it can be exhausting sometimes.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Nah, I was actually bugging them about the online consultation survey they did a while ago. I requested specific data based on the survey questions, nothing personally identifiable or anything, just how people answered for each question. They gave me some dump that's just the tallies of how many people responded in general on each day, not related at all to what I was asking for. They claim they did their best to satisfy my request, but the commissioner requires you to wait a month or something before you can file a complaint.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



I like Miles. Also Mike, aka the Bloke, used to be a TFB TV host, but I don't think he deals with them much anymore. Just focuses on his own channel now. I wish Miles would find his own foothold in guntube.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Beau being a felon, prohibited from arming, advocating for unarmed organization, makes a tonne of sense actually. I had assumed he just had a kid and that was his reason for getting rid of his guns, and that his fatherly perspective made him more pacifist, for lack of a better word. His perspective of being a felon is a simpler explanation though.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



mlmp08 posted:

Saying that “the antis” collectively did some homophobia is about as nuanced as saying “the pro-gun people” collectively love the confederacy.

It's a fair point that generalization is rarely helpful. However I have met plenty gun owners and enthusiasts who do not support the confederacy at all, the vast majority even. Granted, I'm privileged and my perspective is skewed, like I'm not in the south or anything, and I'm selective in who I enjoy my hobby with.

I have not met someone that is fervently anti-gun (as in "gently caress YOU GUN HAVER", not "idk maybe gun bans work") that does not resort to homophobia or other forms of toxic masculinity. NerdyMcNerdNerd kind hit the nail on the head as to why:

NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

I don't even think it's an intentionally homophobic thing, so much as it is attacking them on ground the insulter assumes they'll hate, and/or people with privilege not thinking about the language they use.

The only way they can rationalize gun ownership is by angry white racist misogynistic men with insecurities about their masculinity. So that's how they attack it. It can be incredibly potent in how it shows peoples' true colours.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



MRC48B posted:

A smarter business strategy might be to start with firearms-adjacent accessories (leftist-themed), build a customer and production base then move into lowers and other regulated items as the market allows.

It worked for magpul.

This seems like the way to do it. I have had vague thoughts about getting into firearms manufacturing (with a certain local machinist), but it seems really tricky to break through in the market to become sustainable. Building your customer base with low overhead stuff before getting into the hardware seems like the easier route, albeit longer before you're milling out lowers en masse.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Dick Burglar posted:

There hasn't been any evidence that Brownell's sucks, has there? I'm hoping to buy a WWSD 2020 rifle (eventually) and I'd prefer to not feel bad about it.

Kinda not really. They were selling some Canadian nationalistic "Northern Guard" maple leaf lowers, Northern Guard is some neo nazi group. However the lowers predate the establishment of the neo nazi group, so.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



DeesGrandpa posted:

they own ar15.com

Welp I've managed to miss this. Have they always owned it?

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



It does get over used, but it tends to be reserved for those that seek to dehumanize others (homophobes, racists, etc), it's just unfortunate that there are a lot of them who feel currently emboldened in their views.

If it makes you feel any better, the right-wing has a bunch of dumb meaningless labels they apply to left-wing people to deride them too. Commies, SJW nazis, cucks, etc.

Jehde fucked around with this message at 19:33 on May 19, 2020

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



In general I personally agree, I don't tend to use the word for the reason you describe, it's pretty pointless in most cases.

However, it is a short easy word, and it is convenient for portraying a certain monolithic caricature, that is one that is homophobic or racist or whatever combination, without needing to spell out specifics.

Consider the following examples of usage:

"That specific gun company is a bunch of chuds"
With your censor this could be:
"That specific gun company is a bunch of racists"

"Nah they're fine, it's not like they're chuds or anything"
With your censor this would be:
"Nah they're fine, it's not like they're racists, or homophobes, or sexists, or transphobes, or anything"

Fairly similar use, but very different effect in usage, and censoring in one context doesn't really mean it makes sense to do so in all contexts.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



poeticoddity posted:

I mention that because if people had routinely referred to him in a way that implied he was sub-human, he'd probably still be a ranting homophobe to this day.

I don't agree with your dichotomic assumption. Sure you know your father best, but I don't buy that him being insulted by a slur would have prevented him from having his eureka moment. If someone takes being called a "chud" as reason to believe more absolutely in regressive ideals, there was never any hope for them to begin with.

Also I feel this is very much a strawman of using chud as a directed insult for no other reason than vitriol, rather than the convenient descriptor it is used as here to inform people asking questions.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



22 Eargesplitten posted:

I have a simple solution. Blatant outright racism, homophobia, sexism, transphobia, etc, they're a chud. If it's more questionable or veiled, that's a chud lite.

That way we can be more clear on the types of chuds we deal with. Chudweiser, so to say.

Chud Lite Lime if they don't like the taste of beer.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



SwissArmyDruid posted:

edit: oops, wrong thread.

edit edit: maybe not?

edit edit edit: Whatever, you judge, either way, I find it incredibly weird that the people that are most gung-ho about taking control of their lives and the lives of others... well.

https://www.psypost.org/2020/05/new-study-finds-authoritarian-personality-traits-are-associated-with-belief-in-determinism-56805

This is the most correct thread I think, thanks for the share.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Vindolanda posted:

Going back a couple of pages to Rhodesia chat, what about Varusteleka? They sometimes ship in bags with a short-shorts “Be a man among men” picture, but Finland’s education on far-right symbols is sketchy at best.
I’d certainly rather think they were just clueless, not Quislings.

Personal anecdote: I ordered a few thing from them somewhat recently, not gun related, but milsurp related. It came in a big paper bag with a giant "BE A MAN AMONG MEN" emblazoning, and a silhouette of a generic person that didn't include short-shorts. To be clear, this was the outward facing imagery for the postal workers.

I repulsed at it, and it is very questionable, but currently I peg it as clueless Finns, and not necessarily quisling Norwegians.

The web of InRangeTV guests being questionable can be exhausting.


Vindolanda posted:

Is Brandon Herrera what until a page ago I’d have called a chud?



He's set off my chud-dar for a while now. He hasn't publicly posted anything especially reprehensible, as far as I can tell, but he gives a familiar vibe. A chuddy vibe, if you will.

Jehde fucked around with this message at 07:33 on May 20, 2020

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Yeah sorry I should not pigeonhole quislings as purely Norwegian, there are many non-Norwegian nazi sympathizers, too many in fact.

I tend to view the Finnish context as it is. They allied with Hitler to fight Stalin. That's an insanely loaded history. Varusteleka could be straight up chuds, but my naive optimistic tendencies err on the side of ignorance.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Captain Log posted:

I really want to hear a response. I didn’t know Rhodesia was a thing until this forum, but drat if it isn’t a disgusting part of history.

I was a more a gun nerd before a history nerd, so for a while I thought it was just FAL worship, no clue what rhodesia actually was, other than some old state. I probably didn't even know what colonialism was. Then I actually took the time to look up what rhodesia was, and it was like an "Oh no... Oh nooo..."

I never got the short shorts, but I can get the FAL worship, and the camo is kinda cool in a void I guess? Obviously I can't get nostalgia for such a state though.

Like, if you look at the rhodesian army, disregarding the historical context, it's kinda cool. They had cool guns like the FALs, Hi-Powers, and Auto-5s with extended mags. Again, I don't get the short shorts, but sure cool guns are cool. But you can't just disregard the historical context.

If someone has a FAL with rhodesian camo, but isn't otherwise questionable, I won't think too much about it. If they have a god drat rhodesian flag for some reason? Or using rhodesian ethnic slurs? All sorts of alarm bells going.

Same kinda thing can be applied to nazi germany. There's no denying they had some cool guns. The StG 44 is the cornerstone of modern assault rifles, it's a cool design. So I won't think anyone that has an StG is a nazi by default, but if they also collect swastikas, then it's a pretty obvious nazi.

I personally avoid nazi guns, because for me personally, what cool designs they did have doesn't outweigh how lovely the users were. But again, I don't blame anyone if they really like some german design enough to ignore the waffenamt.


I'm curious about Brownell's response as well, but my chips go on them not knowing any better and just rather sweeping it under the rug.

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Guest2553 posted:

e. my quasi-informed observation is that in some places, ownership is seen as utilitarian (Israel, Sweden, Pakistan, Czechia), or a Cool Thing to Do that enjoys general support from all stripes where permitted. Only in US/Canada does it seem like it's become so married to a political brand. Even in a place like NZ that's had ownership politicized and severely restricted recently, it's doesn't come across as partisan in the same way. Willing to be wrong on this because I honestly don't know.

This is kinda my perception as well. However, it does seem pretty reliable that any political framing is that "progressive liberal" parties support populist gun control reform, and "social conservative" parties wish to preserve what's seen as traditional rights/privileges. It's also kind of a geopolitical issue at this point, like the prime minister of New Zealand met with the prime minister of Canada before he issued his order in council. But how different nations handle politics in general informs how partisan the gun politics get. There's also a huge factor of what kind of gun culture each nation has I think, which is typically informed by history, tradition and geography.

America: Martial, anti-tyrannical, enshrinement of self-defence.
Canada: Non-martial, lots of hunting, lots of American media.
Israel: War torn as gently caress, the nation has always seen themselves as fighting for survival.
Pakistan: See above, however my perception is their gun culture is less about national survival and more about personal survival.
Czechia: Constantly subjugated through history, seen American cowboys save Europe in WW2.
Sweden: I'm not actually familiar with Swedish gun culture much at all, but my understanding it's basically "of course you hunt in Sweden."
UK: Guns have been banned for a long time there, it's become normalized for like a century.
AU/NZ: Commonwealth colonies which didn't stray too far from the empire or had much other foreign influence.
Finland: What else are you gonna do except drink vodka and shoot a Suomi SMG? Also had The USSR crashing on their door nearly a century ago.
Switzerland: Uniquely martial, National Redoubt, real strong militia culture because of being surrounded by war for centuries.

All the above is my limited perceptions and may be wrong.

Jehde fucked around with this message at 03:37 on May 22, 2020

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



Cyrano4747 posted:

Aero VP posted:

We are not historical activists.



vvv: Ah right.

Jehde fucked around with this message at 04:46 on May 23, 2020

Jehde
Apr 20, 2010



I wonder if they consider holocaust acknowledgement "historical activism". Maybe the next camo they add to their builder thing will be waffen SS poo poo.

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Jehde
Apr 20, 2010






January: PS752 shot down by Iran, bunch of Canadian students dead. Government says they will develop a framework for dealing with international air disasters.
February: RCMP invaded Yintah, sparks pan-indigenous protests across Canada that halted rail transport and flared indigenous racism.
March: Pandemic time!
April: Some cop wannabe murders a bunch of Canadians using arson, smuggled guns, and an identical police cruiser and uniform.
May: Gun ban list via an order in council, with a bunch of random RCMP bans on top.

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