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moths
Aug 25, 2004







If your musket didn't go off, your first reaction could easily be "gently caress I didn't load it!" while stuffing another cartridge down there in a stress situation.

I've seen reenactments on TV, and I can't believe they were anywhere nearly that orderly and sanitary.

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moths
Aug 25, 2004







anon from 4chan posted:

That's being repulsed by someones appearance, which is dumb and bigoted.

Haircut and jewelry are both choices he made.

There's a world of difference between "her nose is the wrong size" and "this guy is wearing red flags."

moths
Aug 25, 2004







anon from 4chan posted:

You shouldn't judge people on their appearance. Assigning malice and ill intent to someone based on hair or jewelry is bad.

Counterpoint: Everyone always judges everyone based on appearance. Because of this, people curate their appearance to present a deliberate image that they want to portray.

If a guy has chosen to shave his head and wear a SKREWDRIVER shirt that complements the 88 tattoo on his neck then maybe, just maybe, it's ok to make some assumptions.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







It lines up more with inferring that informed people who make responsible decisions might also make good parents.

Slightly less off-topic, how is the SRA as an organization? I like the premise, but I don't want to get no-fly listed because visiting the range with chapo fans seemed fun.

That and the decal seems like a great way to get your car vandalized around here.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Thanks for the takes and I'll check out that thread!

(Also yeah stickers are such a mistake regardless of your beliefs.)

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Cops in camo is something I will never loving understand. The whole point of a uniformed police force is that they are clearly members of law enforcement, beholden to rules and regulations - not whatever the gently caress blue Punisher skull this has become.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Dumb question that's on-topic: Is classic a bunch of racist authoritarians or just poor customer service?

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Thanks for the info, that's a disappointment but at least I can still feel ethically comfortable entering their drawings.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Could go either way, really. I got their latest catalog junk mailed to me and it's got a law enforcement tribute edition rifle, nothing but white people, a lot of hardline "Made in America" language, and this:


Charitably, it reads "Get your grandkids into shooting." And that's fine.

BUT the implication that our "traditions" are threatened picks up connotations when associated with a blonde haired white kid celebrating a Christian holiday. (And suggesting that arming him is necessary to preserve "traditions and freedoms.")

It's also a good enough dogwhistle that I'd look like a crazy person by bringing this up if they hadn't just done that 88 guns thing.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







DeesGrandpa posted:

I haven't seen the rest of the catalog so I'll take your word for it (and would love to see something about the 88 gun if you have time, I haven't even heard of that sadly), but what am I missing here? Where's the dogwhistle?

Most people probably read our traditions and freedoms as "shooting, hunting, and gun ownership." It's a gun catalogue, after all. We preserve those by sharing them, as shown in the picture. Pretty wholesome.

A Trump conservative might pick up that the gun and Christmas are the "traditions and freedoms" that need preservation. It's no secret that there are wars against 2A and Christmas. One fights those wars by voting straight ticket R, loudly correcting people who say "happy holidays," and teaching the next generation to do the same.
(This is, I think, most likely what's going on in the catalog: a nod to politics and a "we're on your team" wink.)

From the ADL:

Anti Defamation League posted:

"14 Words" is a reference to the most popular white supremacist slogan in the world: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children." The slogan was coined by David Lane, a member of the white supremacist terrorist group known as The Order (Lane died in prison in 2007). The term reflects the primary white supremacist worldview in the late 20th and early 21st centuries: that unless immediate action is taken, the white race is doomed to extinction by an alleged "rising tide of color" purportedly controlled and manipulated by Jews.

The ad depicts this in visual form.

To a person indoctrinated into the belief that the Jews are pursuing a cultural genocide of white people, traditions and freedoms in the ad copy would further extend to "whiteness." Christmas and 2a are still endangered, as above, but so are white children. And their means to fight that is through violence.
It's a nod in a different direction, and a more insidious "we're on your team" wink.

Now, I'm almost certain it's the second "Trump conservative" case, which is why I didn't initially comment on it. It's a whiff of smoke, not a roaring fire. I'm not calling them nazis and I'd buy a Henry if I were inclined to - this is just something to file in case more information becomes available.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







I didn't mean it's literally the 14 words in hieroglyphics, it's a visualization of the sentiment.

It is tentative! I agree that it seems like a stretch - but it's still "this is what we fight for" next to a photo of a blonde haired, white Christian kid in a catalog that depicts exclusively white people.

But as I said before, it was almost certainly coded to resonate with conservatives, and the shrinking daylight between them and the alt-right makes for some unfortunate overlap.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Satanism has enough Objectivism in its DNA to be objectionable. A friend of the devil is one thing, but a friend of Ayn Rand is no friend of anyone.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







It bleeds over into authoritarianism pretty hard though - Paul Ryan once made Atlas Shrugged required reading for his flunkies, while Mitt Romney has named his first born son after an Ayn Rand character.

Anton LeVay cribbed her "philosophy" when writing his Satanic Bible, which makes a poetic point about a country that would put Romney/Ryan on the same ticket while professing its Christianity.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







I came across this logo the other day and the only thing that could make it more blatant would be the Fraktur font. (I'm guessing the guy just didn't know what it was called.)

moths
Aug 25, 2004







That certainly was a bunch of informative posts emerging as a direct result of his nudging things back on-track.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Oh, no she can still get that Oakley one. The skull's not resting on the bones, they're forming an X behind it.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Ok good, that design was abysmal

It's easy to lose sight of how this stuff legitimately comes up accidentally. Walmart famously had to pull a bunch of straight-up Totenkopf t-shirts off their shelves because people just didn't know.

That's what makes it so hard to have firm rules for anything short of swastikas or klan robes. Most of it requires some degree of being "in the know," which is why explanation is important.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Funny how these things always end up accidently nazi instead of like, "Oops we endorsed BLM."

moths
Aug 25, 2004







It's weird to me that they redesigned it as the SFP for Europe and Canada but not the US. It has to be deliberate, because it would require twice as much English-language marketing, manuals, etc. (Unless I'm misreading the Wikipedia article.)

It doesn't mean they're marketing to nazis though, it could be something as simple as wanting to avoid brand infringement with VW within the sphere of America's weird business laws.

Don't try calling your hamburger a Mc___ or your electronics an i___ in the US! Volks___ could be interpreted as an attempt to step on VW's brand, regardless of actual facts.


E: I'd love to get the actual scoop though, if I find out I'll edit it in.

E2: Wait poo poo that makes zero sense, that's a reason why HK wouldn't call it the VP in America.

moths fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Aug 6, 2020

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Read the articles. The organization is the lovely management, it's a racket.

moths
Aug 25, 2004









It also comes in an ironic SS shield design, packaged in an ironic racist cartoon envelope about COVID19.

Yeah don't shop there holy gently caress.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Schrodinger's pedophile aside, here's the insignia again in full SS colors:


That notch in the shield emblem probably looks familiar because you've seen it before:

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Inclusivity and diversity would do more good for gun rights than the NRA ever did.

Decoupling eveything from culture war bullshit is absolutely the way forward, but trying to wrest public perception from the old boys network is going to take something substantial.

I don't know if 2020's new owners boom will make a dent, but it's a very good step.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







American roads are half highways and inexplicably three-quarters backroads full of blind turns, suicidal deer, drunk drivers, sheer drops, high shoulders, road debris, bicyclists, flooding, snow, disabled vehicles, or any combination of the above.

If anything, Americans are amazing drivers because our roads kill off anyone who isn't by age 20.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Is that Demolition Ranch guy a monster? His stage presence is annoying but he does stupid stuff that's fun to watch.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Is the C&R woman an ESL speaker maybe?

Many non-English languages have gendered pronouns for eveything.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







It kind of subverts the masculinity of guns, so that might be intentional in an interesting way. She'd probably be receptive to just asking.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Galil Debbie is only slightly acceptable and that's because it's a snack cake.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Here's a screenshot if you don't want to give them traffic:



"...styled this one after the TOUGHEST skull and bones designs ever!!!"

So yeah they absolutely loving knew what they're doing here.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







"What are you, a bunch of socialists?" Would presumably cause a divide by zero error that ends in aneurisms.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Tbf, the people in town would call the narrator that.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Relevant side note: You often see 88 in Chinese stuff because it's an approximation of the "double happiness" symbol:



So if you come across someone online whose name is a bunch of Chinese characters ending in 88, it's much more likely that's what they're referring to.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







It's not hostile, it just comes at the idea of rights from a different philosophical angle.

People across the political spectrum will extrapolate rights as having all kinds of different inherent natures, ie: coming from God, promised by government, guaranteed by society, inherent to life, intrinsic, extrinsic, etc.

It doesn't really amount to anything other than "What is permissible?" and that path leads to more questions than answers.

Our gun rights are enshrined in a note from America's dads, so they're about as secure as anything else here.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Those are all very good points, and I'd like to add that by the time a person comes of gun- firing age, they've absorbed at least a decade of mythology and legends about the guns of yore.

I think some of the sentiment today has its roots in the M16 being made out of plastic. It really emphasizes the notion that they don't make 'em like they used to, and old stuff was inherently better.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







One (and probably the only) good(?) thing to come out of this is that so many people with terrible opinions will expose themselves as full blown, mask-off fascists in the coming weeks.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







You could possibly make a case for something of real cultural or historical value, like the Louvre or the Liberty Bell - but a loving Kia dealership or a Wendy's? Come on.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







It's also why Fox ran this "story". (Featuring alt right sycophant Andy Ngo.)

Contrasted against the nonstop dehumanization train run full blast about Rittenhouse's victims, it's pretty clear that's the intent.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







I've only recently tested the waters on this, but I feel like most eveyone I talk with about guns in a non-political context agrees that they're fun and cool.

Politicizing them into a losing right-wing culture war seems like the only path to getting them bulldozed or melted into slag, and I wish these shitheads would stfu and not presume to speak for everyone.

moths
Aug 25, 2004







Numlock posted:

Guns and gun ownership are political and have always been so, from day one of our country. Denial of this fact is less helpful than recognizing the obvious.

Literally all aspects of our lives, from fresh drinking water to hourly wages have been made political.

I'm talking about the right-wing's grab for gun issues and branding it as "theirs." They've stuck their dick in the mashed potatoes so many times that regular folks don't want any part of it.

Numlock posted:

Those shitheads are speaking for "Everyone" (in the gun culture). If you thought you were part of that then you were the one mistaken.

Everyone has the same right though. They're obviously not speaking for me, you, or any other reasonable citizen. Yet the oathkeepers, NRA, and all the others are out there blowing unmitigated vitriol and putting their own fascist face on the right, uncontested because nobody else has the resources to drive messaging.

If anything is going to eliminate gun rights in this country, it's going to be because we've allowed the rights to become too enmeshed with these hateful shits when society finally sees fit to discard them.

E: I honestly don't think they speak for "gun culture" at large, either, just the radicalized faction that feels emboldened by recent events.

moths fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Sep 2, 2020

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moths
Aug 25, 2004







Numlock posted:

Do you have some evidence that the spokesmen/members/etc of nearly every gun blog, magazine, YouTube channel and organization represent some minority? Seems pretty empty in the not-insane-racist corner...

I'm saying that most Americans are agreeable to guns while having nothing to do with being part of the bonkers outspoken single issue-as-identity cult.

Something like 40% of US households own a gun, but I can't believe anything close to that percentage goes all-in on this Oathkeeper bullshit. We'd already have had the civil war they want.

Numlock posted:

The idea that gun ownership was ever non-political is a fiction.

I don't know if I'm being unclear or you're being deliberately obtuse.

Of course it's political, everything is political.

I'm saying the alt-right has successfully coopted gun rights in the same way their openly nazi tentacle tried to annex free speech three years ago.

But when did the racists get to dictate who has gun rights? All along. Gun right erosion has been a reaction to armed PoCs since the moment slavery ended (and somewhat before then.)

American "liberals" are content to play their game for them, which plays into the racists' narrative. The fear they're leveraging up until now had distilled into "Hey white America, the government is going to start treating you like them unless you buy Wayne another cruise."

And it was largely grift; Any real danger was drastically outweighed by inertia, democratic party incompetence, and 40% of gun owning households being politically ambivalent.

But now that the POTUS is talking up a YouTube snuff film star, whatever psychotic homeostasis kept all those forces balanced is and cancelled clearly no longer applies.

A fringe group openly called on the president to give them the go-ahead to murder their political rivals.

That's the kind of extremist poo poo that makes Mr and Mrs Grandpa's Shotgun in the Closet rethink if anyone needs that right when its biggest advocates want to turn America into Rwanda.

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