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OK so, thanks to Scarodactyl for linking me to this thread! I am not getting into lapidary... uh, lapidarianism? Lapidation, as a hobby here. BUT let me tell you a story real quick: Back in the late 90s, my best friend and his dad used to go opal mining in northern Nevada. His dad was something of a rockhound - well, first it was opals and then it was gold, and that's all, so I dunno if that really counts. Anyway they had (probably still have) fee digging in Virgin Valley, NV. Eventually I went along a couple of times and dug some opals, which was extremely cool. I have some geology background, I took a bunch of classes in college although I wound up not pursuing a science degree, but I'm still interested in rocks and stuff. So, I have a small collection of Virgin Valley opal, including some very nice specimens of black opal. For those unfamiliar, the opal from this region is almost always very very high in water saturation, much higher than australian gemstone opal. As a result, it typically has to be kept immersed in water or mineral oil... allowing it to dry out leads to crazing and cracking and it just disintegrates. Not always, I've seen the number 10% tossed around as how much opal from there is "stable" but like most rockhounding word-of-mouth info, that's probably a bullshit guesstimate at best. Still, I have some not-very-nice opal to practice on, including a big hunk of "moss opal," a little petrified wood, a couple "dinosaur eggs" my wife and I got from a rock shop outside Zion National Park, and some random rocks we found at the beach and stuff, all of which I'd like to play around with slicing up and/or polishing and/or making cabochons or drilling holes in etc. A couple years before he died, my friend's dad gave me all his old lapidary tools. I think he bought this stuff at a shop local to him in Auburn, CA and then maybe played around with it a little but never really did anything. Possibly he got it all used. Scarodactyl suggested I post in this thread what I've got and my questions about it, so here goes. First up I have this polishing wheel setup:    This thing has six plastic disks you can affix diamond paper to (or maybe they come pre-affixed), and there's a set of five or six. I assume I need to replace all the diamond paper disks?, and also I'd need some kind of compound. It looks like there's an ability to add a water feed to the setup, but no water feed was provided. I suspect this is a cheapo setup where you just like dribble some water on by hand from a squeeze bottle or something? Something is supposed to sit on that round raised shelf above the disk, but I don't have whatever goes there. I need to decide whether it's worth trying to get new disks for this, and a water feed setup? Or is this garbage that's not worth trying to use? The company seems to still exist and sell disks here: https://hitechdiamond.com/product-category/diamond-discs/ and this thing sure looks a lot like an "all you need" https://hitechdiamond.com/product-category/lap-machines/ but not exactly, the shelf is in a different place, and the button on the front doesn't look like the knob on those things, so I'm betting this is an old/discontinued model. Next I've got this very robust and powerful and industrial looking flexible dremel tool:     This thing is badass and even if I do nothing with gems I'm gonna get it working. It did not come with any bits, but I have a normal dremel set and I'm guessing I can use the dremel bits for it. It's got a speed control pedal too, which gently caress yes. The whole thing reeks of industrial build quality heavy duty construction. It does have the one thing that's inserted you can see in the pic, plus I have these baggies of tiny little round disks that I'm guessing are supposed to be mounted on a bit for the dremel:   so I'm thinking maybe there's supposed to be like a tiny arbor or holder thing that holds these disks, maybe with a pad behind them, for doing rock polshy grindy poo poo. e. oh, Hi Tech has them: https://hitechdiamond.com/shop/mini-disc-holders/ so I think I must have these guys but would need a holder or two. You can also see them in the foreground of this pic I took of the next thing, which is like a miniature press with a chisel mouth that I assume is for splitting rocks:  I'm guessing you can apply at least a half ton or so of pressure with this bastard, especially if you mount it in a beefy bench vise. I imagine you'd notch a rock or like score it around the edges to help it split where you want it, and then put on every piece of PPE you own and then try to stand to the side while you explode rocks into shards with it and hope you don't get any shards embedded in your arm. I have some welding gloves and a facemask and an apron and poo poo but I'd still feel kinda nervous trying to break a rock with it. Here's some photocopied instructions, probably for the flat disk polisher thing at the top but maybe not:  This next thing I've actually identified, since it has its name on it: it's a TINY TRIM little bitty rotary saw for cutting stone, and like the dremel it looks like a heavy duty quality piece of equipment, with a very robust motor and everything is build FORD TOUGH:   It looks like this when it's put together:  I took it apart before storing it because the reservoir was full of goopy sludge that at one point must have been cutting compound. Possibly oil-based because it sure didn't want to come out with just water. It came with these two blades:  which look rusty and hosed up enough that I didn't want to turn the thing on with one of them mounted and risk it flying apart into my face. But that could just be surface and maybe they're still awesome and fine, you tell me! Some version of the TINY TRIM is still available here: http://www.gemworld.com/TrimSaws.asp Mine says JBFC which could be "Johnson Brothers" with FC standing for something more... anyway it's clearly the same saw. This outfit also sell blades: http://www.amlap.com/alw/sawblades.html gently caress if I know exactly which blades to get, or even whether I should order from a place with a website straight out of the 1990s. The TINY TRIM being sold above comes with "4" X .012" blades, but I dunno if that's exactly right for what I want to do. I forgot to measure the arbor. Is there a better source for blades? Also, whether to run this thing with their "Dia-Cut" coolant, or "Kool Kut Saw" lubricant, or something else? And is this thing garbage now, or still good? I think it'd be fun to use it to slice up some small rocks. Actually same question for all this equipment. Lapidary goons please tell me if I have a treasure trove, or a pile of scrap for the e-waste bin? What do I need to order or do, so I can start grinding up and polishing various non-gemstone rocks and/or my precious fragile opals? Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 20:21
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The tiny disks have been stored in separated little zippy bags so I'd guess they're fine. The big disks for the "all you need" have been tossed together in an open cardboard box and stored in various garages for at least a decade. The one I photographed still has its identifying sticker (from the photo I think it says 180 mesh) but the other ones are missing their stickers. I understand Hi-Tech seems to color-code the disks, but given how they were stored I'd guess there's definitely been cross-contamination. I can certainly rig some kind of water system. I've got some old aquarium pumps and lots of tubing and poo poo so I can figure something out. Any idea about that chisel screw press thing? e. What do you use to hold rocks you're slicing up? I've seen in videos people mount small rocks on a stick with some kind of putty or wax or something, what are those called so I can google them? e2. I should be less lazy. It's called a dop stick and dopping and I can look that poo poo up. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 21:38
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Oh man thanks for all that, super useful info. I have plenty of cyanoacrylate glues lying around (for building and painting little nerd dolls), is there a particular CA that's good? Also, how do you get the stone back off the glue, do you use a CA dissolver (I have some) or just pry it off? I definitely have metal and wood dowels and such to use. Scarodactyl posted:The hi-tech is definitely much like an all-u-need, which is a capable tool for starting out on. I use a setup with vertical wheels (you grind on the edges rather than the top) but both styles have fans and proponents. You can also mount a saw blade on one of these. I'm struggling to figure out how that would work. You'd have like a horizontal saw blade, how would you feed stone into it? Or you mean, you can mount saw blades on your vertical setup... quote:One nice feature of sintered diamond tools is that they're a lot better at grinding hard things than soft things (unless there is a serrated edge or whatever) so they will tend not to wreck your finger if you nudge them, NOT that I recommend it. It looks like it should be perfectly compatible with any normal lap you buy. So it sounds like I want a slightly different set of stuff for the opal vs. playing around with random rocks. I'm assuming it's important not to cross-contaminate, e.g. if I get a wheel or three from Hi-Tech for my "All you need" thing, and smear some cerium oxide on it, and then run water on it while grinding down some hunks into cabs, I would not want to use that same wheel (even rinsed off?) to grind away at some other rocks that are harder? How about the TINY TRIM, what blade(s) and what fluid(s) should I get for it? I wanna slice a "thunder egg" (geode of unknown makeup) into bits, but it'd also be nice to be able to slice up opal.
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Oct 1, 2019 00:57
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So uhhh, Gemworld. http://www.gemworld.com/USAvsUS.htm Not super excited to order from these guys. For example they don't collect state tax, and both they and I am in CA so that's definitely illegal. They don't take credit cards. They add the 4% merchant fee from Paypal back to your order, which is definitely against Paypal's rules. And they're, based on the above page, full on gold fringe freeman on the land lunatics. Do you guys have a preferred vendor where I can get some blades for my tiny trim? Also some cutting lube? Those Highland Park dudes seem legit but I'd rather not buy the minimum 5+ gallons of stuff... Gemworld lists a bunch of different cutting fluid options including some that come dried that you add to water, which sounds good to me, or some smaller quantities etc. These guys sell tiny trim disks: http://www.amlap.com/alw/sawblades.html and their site has an actual shopping cart, anyone used them before? I figure I'll get replacement disks for my All In One direct from Hi-Tech but they only sell this one lubricant which is specifically for diamond cutting, so I'll need to at least make two orders to get my equipment in order.
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Oct 1, 2019 18:57
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Thanks man, turns out there's a place in Oakland I can go check out. It'd be nice to just bring in my box o' tools and buy exactly what I need there without paying to ship stuff.
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Oct 8, 2019 03:36
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Could be nephrite/jadeite, I've seen it that color before (search for white or pink jade or nephrite to see examples). Whatever it is, it has very very fine grain, which makes it harder to identify from a photo. Some variety of marble is definitely possible. this is jade, for example: 
Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Dec 7, 2021 |
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Dec 7, 2021 22:42
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There's also plenty of fake stuff masquerading as jade out there, but the weight you reported implies this probably isn't plastic or resin. If you feel like making sure, you can try a scratch test on maybe the underside of a pig foot or something, and you can check the exact density by discovering its volume (use a measuring cup and water, and check the water volume with and without the pig fully immersed). Should be in the range of 2.9-3.3, which covers both nephrite and jadeite.
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Dec 7, 2021 23:55
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Jadeite has a density of 3.20-3.33 g/cc, while nephrite has a density of 2.98 - 3.33 g/cc, I combined them and rounded off to allow for a bit of slop in measurement. If you're in exactly that range, there's not much else it could be that would look like that. Marble is about 2.6 to 2.7. e. for a scratch test, it should scratch (but not be scratched by) mild steel. Jadeite/nephrite hardness: 6-7 (on the Moh's scale), mild steel: 4-4.5. Take care not to go at it with hardened or heat-treated carbon steel etc., which can be considerably harder... 6.3 at the high end, which could scratch jade. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Dec 8, 2021 |
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Dec 8, 2021 01:57
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Yeah I only mentioned it since JD said she'd already given it a go. I agree it can be fraught.
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Dec 8, 2021 02:26
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I don't buy stone much but just randomly, you wouldn't happen to live near Tucson, Arizona would you? They have an enormous annual gem show where lots of people go to buy wholesale (my sister is going, she works for a jeweler who is bringing her to learn more about gem grading) and it's happening in a couple of weeks.
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Jan 21, 2022 19:42
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gently caress. I should have thought of chalcedony. Hardness is 6.7-7, should also scratch steel. I think moss agate tends to have that dark forest-green color in it, that I don't really see in JD's pig, and I also feel like I see a bit of a pinkish matrix that doesn't shout moss agate, but it's another one of those highly variable stones that could be a match yeah.
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Jan 27, 2022 03:01
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Scarodactyl posted:This is going to vary with individual style but you can go much larger than 12mm without looking too big for a pendant in general imo.  In all seriousness, there's not really a minimum or maximum size for a pendant. 12mm topaz will be fine, just make sure the chain is an appropriate gauge and length for the size of the stone + setting. I think this is a bit too big:  but this is fine: 
Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Mar 11, 2022 |
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Mar 11, 2022 21:16
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Does Costco definitively trace their diamonds from an ethical source?
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Jul 8, 2022 17:47
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Claes Oldenburger posted:Does anyone? The kimberly process works as well as any system is going to, so the vast majority of stones now are going to be above board. The Kimberley process (to the extent it works) ensures diamonds aren't source from "rebels" engaging in conflict with "legitimate governments" but does not address other ethical concerns such as the conditions faced by mining employees in various countries, or (basically) lovely countries using diamonds to fund oppressive government. Still, it's a hell of a lot better than nothing, and of course similar issues exist for many other stones. So, what I'm getting at is whether Costco (or any other retailer) can do better than just "these aren't rebel conflict diamonds" and instead can say "these diamonds specifically came from a Canadian mine" or similar. I also avoid diamonds because I think they're stupid overpriced based on intentionally-created scarcity, but that's kind of a separate thing and I get it that a lot of people really like them for a variety of reasonable reasons. I don't know that this very low-traffic thread is the right place to discuss ethical sourcing of gemstones necessarily, so I hope this doesn't start a bad derail. I'll be less lazy and provide a partial answer to my question: https://www.costco.com/costco-diamond-jewelry-faqs.html quote:Costco and our suppliers support the Kimberley Process, a multinational initiative to stem the flow of conflict diamonds, and the World Diamond Council’s System of Warranties, a voluntary system of industry self-regulation that assures buyers of diamond jewelry that the diamonds in the jewelry they have purchased are from legitimate sources and conflict free. Costco requires all of our trade suppliers of diamond jewelry to provide us with a written warranty that the diamonds in the jewelry they have supplied to us are sourced from legitimate sources not involved in funding conflict. https://www.kimberleyprocess.com https://www.worlddiamondcouncil.org/about-sow/ Basically this is better than nothing, and the System of Warranties means that in theory Costco can document where every diamond they sell came from; but in practice I'm sure you can't just call an employee over and ask to see the full paper trail for every gem in the display case and I doubt this system ensures you're buying a Canadian diamond and not a Russian one, for example. Seems like as good a retailer to buy from as any random American retailer. 
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Jul 8, 2022 20:26
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maybe a hard shell or coat of some kind? I've got no idea what the state of the art is these days
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Jul 19, 2022 22:25
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I'm under the impression that amethyst is so cheap nobody bothers to fake it. Given the texture in that ring and the very close-up pics with flaws and imperfections (which make it interesting, I'm not saying it's bad) it looks like a real stone to me and I'd be surprised if anyone spent the time and effort to make such a detailed fake for a stone that isn't going to be worth all that much anyway.
Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jan 31, 2023 |
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Jan 31, 2023 19:31
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Hah, OK welp! I guess faceted amethyst is the decorative stuff people want to put on their desktops and align their chakras with so no surprises there. I bet you can be sure you're getting real stuff if it's still attached to its matrix? But yeah that cab really looks natural.
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Jan 31, 2023 23:40
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Oh yeah I know I just meant in this particular case people want cut amethyst in particular, I was thinking a lot of amethyst is faceted to look like large natural crystals as opposed to the stuff that goes in jewelry. Amethyst is a staple of the rock shop and the head shop. I guess you're mostly thinking about gem quality stuff for settings and in that case yup I can see why a lot of it would be fake.
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Feb 1, 2023 00:47
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Well I thought that was cool, anyway
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Sep 1, 2023 22:56
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Disclaimer: I have only dabbled in cutting and shaping rock, there's much more expert experts here: Labradorite is around 6 to 6.5 moh's hardness so your tempered HSS steel tools might cut it - tool steel is at like 4 but I'm not sure how much harder HSS is. But, rock cutting is done with a constant stream of coolant (water, or water + additives, typically), and you might not want to have water spraying around on your wood lathe? Without it you'll get very high heat on your tool surface very fast and destroy the temper. I'm not sure if the water is also needed as a lubricant for the cutting action. I'm also not sure if you can get away with a particular angle of attack that won't produce the equivalent of tearout: all the rock cutting stuff I've used has abrasive diamond wheels, not sharp tools. You can run a diamond wheel saw against your thumb without cutting it because it's actually got a very thin flat surface going against the stone, not a sharp edge. Secondarily: Labradorite has an orientation in which you'll get the pretty colors, and a slab may not be oriented in the way you want it if you start carving into it. It's composed of many flat layers of stone glued together basically, and you get the pretty shinies from having that flat surface be the smooth surface light reflects off of. You should expect if you carve into it to have mostly angles that don't give you the maximum chatoyancy that the ideal orientation would give you. All the above said, you could still give it a try with a spare tool you don't mind having to re-grind, and see what happens. e. based on this chart you need tools of probably at least Rockwell 70 to stand a chance. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Dec 26, 2023 |
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Dec 26, 2023 19:35
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