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Vote to threadban Bioshuffle
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Yes (Goku) 146 85.38%
No (also Goku) 25 14.62%
Total: 171 votes
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Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012


It's pretty great how impotent Homelander is, in the comics and the show, against people who just aren't scared or reverent of him. His final scene with James Stillwell is pretty fantastic because HL is trying to put on Super Evil Badman airs and he's just not buying it.

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Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

TURDS BOD



Homelander being able to tell if someone is lying adds a completely terrifying dimension to his character that wasnít there in the comics and makes him way more of a formidable and insidious kind of demon than simply an evil superman

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012


Bust Rodd posted:

Homelander being able to tell if someone is lying adds a completely terrifying dimension to his character that wasnít there in the comics and makes him way more of a formidable and insidious kind of demon than simply an evil superman

He actually can, he uses it when Jack from Jupiter thinks The Boys are burning him, and when they met at the base to hand over Lamplighter. The show uses it more often though, and for more important plot beats than "Butcher is calm fury" and a sideplot that has aged real bad.

I feel like the climax of the comics help humanize Homelander, compared to rest of the run where he's just "evil superman that is smart enough not to gently caress up the money". He's basically gaslit into being a monster.

Sarcastro
Dec 28, 2000
Elite member of the Grammar Nazi Squad that

fatherboxx posted:

"The only man in the sky is me"

Possibly my favorite line in the comics.

jabby
Oct 27, 2010



Sarcastro posted:

Possibly my favorite line in the comics.

I like "I think I've finally met a superhuman" (when talking to Stillwell). Comic Homelander does get some good lines.

Fionordequester
Dec 27, 2012

Actually, I respectfully disagree with you there. For as obviously flawed as this game is, there ARE a lot of really good things about it. The presentation and atmosphere, for example, are the most immediate things. No other Yu-Gi-Oh game goes out of the way to really make


"Look at that, he did have brains after all. See?" (throws Vic the Veep's decapitated head at Butcher).

Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Oct 16, 2020

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




Neurolimal posted:

I feel like the climax of the comics help humanize Homelander, compared to rest of the run where he's just "evil superman that is smart enough not to gently caress up the money". He's basically gaslit into being a monster.

Yeah it's one of the few things they;ve changed I'm bummed about. Homelander was a shithead on his own in the comic like most supes but it was interesting how he became increasingly detached from humanity as he's gaslit into believing he's done all these awful things so he says gently caress it. And his incredulous reaction to the reveal. Also makes Black Noir more interesting than he is on the show unless they have something cooked up for future seasons. It's the most interesting part of the comic so I've always found it weird they ditched it.

Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Oct 16, 2020

Fionordequester
Dec 27, 2012

Actually, I respectfully disagree with you there. For as obviously flawed as this game is, there ARE a lot of really good things about it. The presentation and atmosphere, for example, are the most immediate things. No other Yu-Gi-Oh game goes out of the way to really make


The show's Homelander is pretty amazing too, though, in different ways. Like I said, it's been a while since I've seen a villain like him. One that saddens me and terrifies me at the same time.

The Notorious ZSB
Apr 19, 2004

I SAID WE'RE NOT GONNA BE FUCKING SUCK THIS YEAR!!!


I think its possible he gets an inverse realization in the show. He may finally at the end see how he was actually closer to humanity and not the monster he was raised to be and it will crush him to know that he made the choices to truly go over the cliff and lose all chance for him to have the things he wants.

They've spent a lot of time humanizing him, and giving him moments or glimpses at the actual person/hero he could be if he just gave a poo poo.

e: this will not redeem him, but i can still see him having a moment of "oh it didn't have to be this way"

The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Oct 16, 2020

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

Nah! A little chocolate will do



Fionordequester posted:

It really is a trip, watching Homelander. He's the first villain in a long time I feel legitimately torn about. Sad, lonely, emotional, and pathetic enough that I wish there were a way to help him... But too much of a psychotic murderer for anyone to ever help him (even if they wanted to).

It's also a trip, watching someone with nothing but contempt for "normal people"Ö Yet completely dependent on their love, at the same time.

Homelander feels like if a character like Azula from ATLA was freed from the constraints of children's programming. Their arcs have a similar construction but I would say that Homelander can gather a little more sympathy since he was literally grown and raised in a lab as opposed to Azula being a royal, and already being raised by a father that only cared about gathering power and showing strength and force.

Both characters have scenes that show that, despite their actions showing how monstrous they are, they are still human-beings that have major emotional hang-ups that impact their lives

pile of brown
Dec 31, 2004


I could see that happening for his internal character but as an audience I think we've seen too much of what he's actually done for any type of "redemption" to be hollow and off putting. He's murdered at least hundreds of innocent people, including explicitly women and children. He's a rapist, even though he cares about his progeny. He's tortured an unknown amount of people globally to intentionally create super terrorists (super villains.) I find it real hard to feel sympathy for someone that far gone no matter how much he feels sympathy for himself.

Fionordequester
Dec 27, 2012

Actually, I respectfully disagree with you there. For as obviously flawed as this game is, there ARE a lot of really good things about it. The presentation and atmosphere, for example, are the most immediate things. No other Yu-Gi-Oh game goes out of the way to really make


pile of brown posted:

I find it real hard to feel sympathy for someone that far gone no matter how much he feels sympathy for himself.

Oh, defintely not sympathy. That would mean you agreed with them on some level (like he's right to be angry about whatever set him off). But empathy? Most definitely.

Crespolini
Mar 9, 2014



Bust Rodd posted:

Homelander being able to tell if someone is lying adds a completely terrifying dimension to his character that wasnít there in the comics and makes him way more of a formidable and insidious kind of demon than simply an evil superman

he does it a couple times in the comic, and it's also funny how he gets more and more frustrated that he can't read stillwell since his heart never goes above the resting rate

Prowler
May 24, 2004



Crespolini posted:

he does it a couple times in the comic, and it's also funny how he gets more and more frustrated that he can't read stillwell since his heart never goes above the resting rate

Whenever this sort of power comes up in fiction, I wonder if/when the writer is going explore the hubris of thinking you can read someone's veracity based on their pulse rate. If someone like HL asked me a seemingly innocuous question--and are familiar with the fact that Homelander doesn't give a poo poo about small talk--my pulse would race, even if I had done nothing wrong. Homelander's lie detection vs. my general anxiety.

Homelander: "Did you lock up Starlight?"
Me: "Yes." (Internal thoughts: oh poo poo, did I forget something? Wait, did I NOT lock the door? Is he asking because he thinks I messed up? Did she somehow escape? Did someone blame me?!)


I guess Starlight touched on how faulty/manipulative lie detection can be already, though.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007



Bust Rodd posted:

Homelander was a baby injected with Compound V, Ryan is a "space spore" born from a human woman who was probably given further Compound V infusions in eutero (and with 30+ years of R&D between Baby Homie and Baby Ryan).

I thought he was just the offspring of Homelander and Becca, was there anything in the show to indicate they doped her baby up?

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

TURDS BOD



Khanstant posted:

I thought he was just the offspring of Homelander and Becca, was there anything in the show to indicate they doped her baby up?

Becca disappears before she even starts showing her pregnancy, thereís basically a 0% chance that Vought wasnít providing state-of-the-art prenatal care, and at that point V infusions might be necessary to keep the baby stable.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




There's no evidence of it and in the comic the baby comes out of the womb with flight and eye lasers.

Johnny Truant
Jul 22, 2008






Bust Rodd posted:

Becca disappears before she even starts showing her pregnancy, there’s basically a 0% chance that Vought wasn’t providing state-of-the-art prenatal care, and at that point V infusions might be necessary to keep the baby stable.

Yeah you're just reaching here, like we're not even months into waiting for the next session, build up the dumb theories a bit slower

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007



Groovelord Neato posted:

There's no evidence of it and in the comic the baby comes out of the womb with flight and eye lasers.

Yeah that's kind of why I just assumed it was a hybrid baby, insofar as however V dopers are a different species, I guess it's an assumption on my part the DNA is changed and is heritable. By the same superscience logic, I would expect the kid born "naturally" with it to surpass the doped versions.

Fionordequester
Dec 27, 2012

Actually, I respectfully disagree with you there. For as obviously flawed as this game is, there ARE a lot of really good things about it. The presentation and atmosphere, for example, are the most immediate things. No other Yu-Gi-Oh game goes out of the way to really make


Johnny Truant posted:

Yeah you're just reaching here, like we're not even months into waiting for the next session, build up the dumb theories a bit slower

His theory sounds logical enough, to me. I'd consider it a possiblity.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




It's less interesting if you still need to V up offspring of a supe. There were certainly no mentions of him having to take his "medicine" or something like that.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?




Neurolimal posted:

It's pretty great how impotent Homelander is, in the comics and the show, against people who just aren't scared or reverent of him. His final scene with James Stillwell is pretty fantastic because HL is trying to put on Super Evil Badman airs and he's just not buying it.

I love how he threatens Maeve that if she spills the Tranoceanic Flight 37 dirt he'll destroy "Everything and Everyone." Voice just dripping with menace, and the assurance that as a living God, he can follow through on his apocalyptic threat. And she call his bluff because as a living God... he can't live without the worship and adulation.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

TURDS BOD



I think youíre misinterpreting what Iím saying.

Iím not suggesting Ryan was not fully suped up, Iím suggesting that Ryan, as Homelanderís kid, is the first natural Superbaby, and therefore Vought had the opportunity to hypercharge an already powered up infant into... something that can kill Stormfront or Homelander.

You know, kind of like what Butcher literally said to the Corpo guy?

Or like how Butcher was like ďheís a hundred billion dollar babyĒ when he was trying to get Becca to run... that isnít a hundred billion dollar facility, they have clearly put work into Ryan.

What sounds more like Vought: Leaving Becca and the kid alone and just studying the natural growth of the baby... or doing everything they can to push it to the limit and make Ryan into a WMD?

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




Maybe they wanted to stud Ryan out when he came of age like it's A Boy and His Dog.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?




Bust Rodd posted:

Or like how Butcher was like ďheís a hundred billion dollar babyĒ when he was trying to get Becca to run... that isnít a hundred billion dollar facility, they have clearly put work into Ryan.

I think that might be putting too much literal stock in a throwaway turn of phrase.

Even if he was born at the hand of a volunteer midwife and the cost of running the facility is peanuts, Homelander Jr. is an incredibly valuable asset just by his very nature.

jabby
Oct 27, 2010



Makes me wonder, if injecting V supercharged A-Train's powers, what would it do to Homelander?

Assuming you could inject Homelander, of course.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?




jabby posted:

Assuming you could inject Homelander, of course.

Maybe he'd have to take it orally, or as a suppository.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Oh holy poo poo.

I just rewatched the Ryan eyebeams Stormfront scene and I just came to a really stark realization. Stormfront didn't kill Becca. It's clear she was *going* to, but didn't.

*Butcher* killed her accidentally. If you look at the overhead shot, the crowbar he was wailing on Stormfront with is laying at Becca's feet. He was baseball-batting Stormfront with the curved end of the crowbar. My thought is that Ryan blasted Stormfront out of the way just long enough for Butcher to get in one last swing that connected...with Becca's neck.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?




BIG HEADLINE posted:

Oh holy poo poo.

I just rewatched the Ryan eyebeams Stormfront scene and I just came to a really stark realization. Stormfront didn't kill Becca. It's clear she was *going* to, but didn't.

*Butcher* killed her accidentally. If you look at the overhead shot, the crowbar he was wailing on Stormfront with is laying at Becca's feet. He was baseball-batting Stormfront with the curved end of the crowbar. My thought is that Ryan blasted Stormfront out of the way just long enough for Butcher to get in one last swing that connected...with Becca's neck.

Huh. That would explain why her injury isn't consistent with optical laserfication and would give Butcher just truckloads of pathos to work through next season when he has a flashback to how it went down blow by blow.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014




I felt sympathy for Homelander when he found out he was banging a centenarian.

Asgerd
May 6, 2012






Grimey Drawer

He was probably very happy to find out she was a mother.

cosmin
Aug 29, 2008


I went through like 6/7 of the comics, then I realized I missed herogasm (it did seem to me that the final act was too rushed).

Went back and managed to track down the herogasm arc and this was the last drop. Stopped reading right before the final confruntation.

I guess there is a lesson in how with enough work, creativity and some COMMON SENSE you can pull out some gold nuggets from a cesspool of poo poo (sorry for my vocabulary, I guess Iím still a bit ennisified).

Somehow these past years have felt too derivative and all the cult-following comics or films have gotten films or sequels yet this series shows that you can get quality content from a good idea, you just donít have to fall in love with the source material or appeal too much to the fanboys.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Owlbear Camus posted:

I love how he threatens Maeve that if she spills the Tranoceanic Flight 37 dirt he'll destroy "Everything and Everyone." Voice just dripping with menace, and the assurance that as a living God, he can follow through on his apocalyptic threat. And she call his bluff because as a living God... he can't live without the worship and adulation.

I don't think she was really calling his bluff so much as just being very depressed and vindictive.

davidspackage
May 16, 2007



Exciting Lemon

Prowler posted:

Whenever this sort of power comes up in fiction, I wonder if/when the writer is going explore the hubris of thinking you can read someone's veracity based on their pulse rate. If someone like HL asked me a seemingly innocuous question--and are familiar with the fact that Homelander doesn't give a poo poo about small talk--my pulse would race, even if I had done nothing wrong. Homelander's lie detection vs. my general anxiety.

Homelander: "Did you lock up Starlight?"
Me: "Yes." (Internal thoughts: oh poo poo, did I forget something? Wait, did I NOT lock the door? Is he asking because he thinks I messed up? Did she somehow escape? Did someone blame me?!)


I guess Starlight touched on how faulty/manipulative lie detection can be already, though.

I didn't really like the scene in the show where Homelander confronts Starlight in the elevator and jams his hand into her side for that reason; how is her heartrate going to tell him anything in that situation?

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012


I read Herogasm after finishing The Boys. It was very obviously intended to have way more Crass poo poo density than the actual series (it certainly wasnt to bring in new readers, by that point I'm pretty sure The Boys was one of Dynamite's best selling series), which you probably should have expected when the first issue's cover was a pantsless hero giving an O-face.

That said there was some good parts to it. Vic the Veep is criminally underused in the series IMO; "Mah fellow 'merikins, ah want mah dicky suck" got a good laugh out of me. Getting the backstory on why the superheroes were allowed to try to stop the plane was interesting & compelling, and the Supies speech helps foreshadow Homelander's superhero uprising.

Shrimpy
May 18, 2004

Sir, I'm going to need to see your ticket.


davidspackage posted:

I didn't really like the scene in the show where Homelander confronts Starlight in the elevator and jams his hand into her side for that reason; how is her heartrate going to tell him anything in that situation?

I don't know that him shoving his hand into her right kidney(?) has anything to do with his ability to tell if she's lying.

Fionordequester
Dec 27, 2012

Actually, I respectfully disagree with you there. For as obviously flawed as this game is, there ARE a lot of really good things about it. The presentation and atmosphere, for example, are the most immediate things. No other Yu-Gi-Oh game goes out of the way to really make


It's Homelander's hubris. He's not a perfect lie detector, but he thinks he is (which is part of how Starlight fooled him).

Stupid_Sexy_Flander
Mar 14, 2007

Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?


Grimey Drawer

Pretty sure he can hear heartbeats. If hers got skippy when he asked her what's up, he would have ripped her apart.

BurritoJustice
Oct 9, 2012



I took it to mean he looks at lots of different biological markers for whether someone is lying, not just heartrate. At one point he mentions the cholesterol in Stan's arteries so I just assume he casually checks out the insides of everyone when he's looking at them

When he is interrogating Starlight she is obviously freaking out but still showed she wasn't lying when she told a selective lie

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Stupid_Sexy_Flander
Mar 14, 2007

Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?


Grimey Drawer

Yea, they never really explicitly say anything about his vision powers, so I dunno if he could see micro tremors or pupil dilation or whatnot, but he's definitely able to scope out insides and hear, well, everything. Dude heard Becca cussing out the doc at the wall umpteen miles away.

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