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Vote to threadban Bioshuffle
This poll is closed.
Yes (Goku) 146 85.38%
No (also Goku) 25 14.62%
Total: 171 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
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Mameluke
Aug 2, 2013
some dirty-sneaker-inbred-out of the woods-Pabst beer pussy methhead-junkie running all around town telling EVERYONE EVERYTHING ABOUT ELON MUSK


glad ryan is seemingly getting focused on this upcoming season

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Elea
Oct 10, 2012


ANOTHER SCORCHER posted:

Black man loves both Obama and Huey P. Newton is as racist as Ennis' original take on MM.

I wonder if anyone has ever held on to the vestiges of more radical politics from their youth while transforming into a moderate liberal later in life. Going to take a time machine to the 1960's to see.

Agree with whoever said that a real in-universe Obama would have been constantly palling around with superheroes like he did with celebrities though.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

MM isn't a moderate liberal, he's involved in an international vigilante conspiracy to assassinate white supremacist war criminals. (They currently have much less support from the US deep state than they did in the comic.) Whether he has random crank liberal opinions is neither here nor there.

Dr Christmas
Apr 24, 2010

Berninating the one percent,
Berninating the Wall St.
Berninating all the people
In their high rise penthouses!
🔥😱🔥🔫👴🏻


Buncha people still just like Obama. I donít think itís hard to wrap oneís head around.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

Dr Christmas posted:

Buncha people still just like Obama. I donít think itís hard to wrap oneís head around.

Obama is probably one of the top 5 best US Presidents, but i mean, that's more of condemnation of the entire rogues gallery than a endorsement of him. Though there is something to be said about the election of a Black Man as president in itself.


Heliotrope posted:

Why not? He's the head of pretty much the most powerful company on Earth. The fact that Homelander is still beholden to capitalism despite his powers fits the show.

You're probably right, but I still think there is some ace in the hole he has. Mallory knows Victoria/Nadia is a supe right? There's no way the Boys didn't tell her that.

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

This democrat lover wants you to donate to Nancy Pelosi! https://secure.actblue.com/donate/nancy-pelosi-2

Regardless of how you evaluate the two figures, the ideals of Newton and Obama are completely incompatible, one encompassing violent revolution and the other incremental progress.

However, people and movements don't necessarily follow logical conclusions. It would be very easy to idolize them both as attempts to better the lives of Black Americans without ever exploring the contradiction. Personally, I find inconsistencies like that to be very humanizing. Posters are complaining that it was irrational for MM to go after Soldier Boy when his gas grenade failed, but I found his lapse in logic to be revealing. His own sense of self preservation is trumped by the pure hatred for soldier boy, and that makes a lot of sense to me. There's no way you're going to dedicate your life to killing Homelander unless your priorities are completely scrambled from the norm.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



PostNouveau posted:

Stormfront was arguably a worse threat because she was a Nazi, whereas Homelander wants to build fascism to glorify himself instead of enact eugenics.

I hear similar arguments pretty often, and don't see the relevant distinction. Homelander is a supremacist. He's not specifically, uniquely committed to the goals of the Nazi party, but I interpreted his fake apology tour this season (and his eventual break from it on live television) as a rejection of that difference. "But I *am* actually better!"

The reason he was so compatible with Stormfront to begin with is that he mostly agreed with her. Like, divorced from the "Nazi" label, the fascistic and supremacist worldview she held sounded pretty good to him. He does think supes are rightfully top of the pile, should have all the societal power. And not even all supes: look at how he treats A-Train, or how he treated Blindspot, or his condescension towards Silver Kincaid. There's plainly an ethnic and gender component to his biases, with obvious out-groups that he resents and wishes he could kill without consequence. Which he eventually does.

I'm only harping on this because of the obvious parallels to Trumpian Q politics, but just because the form of his racist fascism feels less organized doesn't make the agenda behind it all that different from literal Nazis. The belief that society is full of inferior mud people, and that true patriots should humiliate and reject them, is simply not different. The idea that policy should enshrine and realize that worldview is an inevitable outcome of enough powerful people thinking that way. So, distinguishing it from "actual" Nazism mostly serves the supremacist agenda by making it look more reasonable or moderate when it isn't.

TyrantWD
Nov 6, 2010
Ignore my doomerism, I don't think better things are possible


Xealot posted:

And not even all supes: look at how he treats A-Train, or how he treated Blindspot, or his condescension towards Silver Kincaid. There's plainly an ethnic and gender component to his biases

Not really. The supe he seems to like the most is Black Noir, who he knew was black since he can see through the mask.

Homelander is biased in favor of power. A-Train, Blindspot, and Silver Kincaid are all weak in some respect (A-Train was a V junkie who can't use his super power, Blindspot is still blind even if his other senses are heightened, and Silver Kincaid would be deeply unpopular with at least half the country).

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



I don't mean to be this flippant, but "Homelander has a Black friend" and "but the minorities he treats like poo poo actually are weak or deficient" isn't the refutation of my point you might assume it is.

Heliotrope
Aug 17, 2007

You're fucking subhuman


Also Homelander liked Black Noir because Black Noir did what he and the company wanted, and when he found out that Black Noir kept a secret from him he killed him for it.

socialsecurity
Aug 30, 2003







He's not racist he liked that one black dude that couldn't speak back to him and did what he was ordered.

Stupid_Sexy_Flander
Mar 14, 2007

Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?


Grimey Drawer

I think the reason he likes Black Noir so much was he was the only hero on the 7 that would not be trying to steal the spotlight.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

TyrantWD posted:

Not really. The supe he seems to like the most is Black Noir, who he knew was black since he can see through the mask.

Homelander is biased in favor of power. A-Train, Blindspot, and Silver Kincaid are all weak in some respect (A-Train was a V junkie who can't use his super power, Blindspot is still blind even if his other senses are heightened, and Silver Kincaid would be deeply unpopular with at least half the country).

He bought the Mexican-descended guy tacos for his intro lunch, talked to him in Spanish even though the guy didn't speak it, and then killed him. Definitely no racial animus there!!

Yestermoment
Jul 27, 2007



socialsecurity posted:

He's not racist he liked that one black dude that couldn't speak back to him and did what he was ordered.

He kind of reminds me of Deadwood's george hearst in that respect. "I ought solely have to do with ****** and whites who obey me like dogs." He's a bigot with megalomania and an inability to connect with people. The racism is there on the surface, but on a deeper level it's anyone he perceives as weaker than him. It just so happens that that is almost everyone.

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs 🎤of siren 🧜🏻‍♀️songs
To oohs😮 to ahhs😱 to 👏big👏applause👏
With all of my 😡anger I scream🤬 and shout📢
🇺🇸America🦅, I love you 🥰but you're freaking 💦me 😳out


Biscuit Hider

IIRC from the little spinoff series I think Noir was also the one who taught him to get away with poo poo using PR.

Idk, I think Homelander just genuinely liked Noir.

SirPablo
May 1, 2004



Pillbug

Black Noir would literally just stand there while Homelander projected his views on him and got self validated. That's why he "liked" him.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





christmas boots posted:

IIRC from the little spinoff series I think Noir was also the one who taught him to get away with poo poo using PR.

Idk, I think Homelander just genuinely liked Noir.

He did seem genuinely broken up when he thought Noir abandoned him.

SirPablo posted:

Black Noir would literally just stand there while Homelander projected his views on him and got self validated. That's why he "liked" him.

Well Homelander mentioned he could and did peak under the mask, to see Noir's reactions. So yea he did like him.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

Homelander is a living embodiment of American jingoism, so of course he's incredibly racist while dismissing race sciecne rhetoric as too weird. He agrees with Stormfront; he just doesn't like the word Nazi. That's all.

I was a little puzzled by the way he randomly bullies his teammates, but this season made it clear. He was hoping he'd find a family in The Seven, but they're all hosed up like him.

ANOTHER SCORCHER
Aug 12, 2018


What the show does get right is that Homelander isn't fascist and racist in a 1930s Racial Darwinian way - instead, he's a Supremacist Solipsist like every American. He believes that he is the only person who exists with any meaning at all, plus maybe his children. This is much more accurate to how Americans view themselves, and even calling it fascist is sort of historically inexpert. It is a new thing created by Protestantism and the experience of frontier individualism.

The most obvious example of this is Trump, for whom everything and everyone: America, the Republican Party, and his own tribalistic followers are simply vehicles for his own self-aggrandizement. But you can see the same phenomenon at play with Obama, whose greatest ambition was to stop worker strikes while releasing a spotify playlist and book recommendations every year as the country burns. Neuman is a weird AOC-expy, as she doesn't really seem like her beyond being young and pretty. A better AOC stand-in would be performatively weepy for Instagram likes while exploding heads.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


His reaction when Stormfront would go on about him being aryan perfection communicated it pretty succinctly. No, but also yes close enough.

Wheeee
Mar 11, 2001

When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.



ďhomelander isnít racist! homelander isnít racist!Ē i continue to insist as his literal 1930ís nazi girlfriend looks at the camera and says people love her ideas, they just donít like the word nazi

Stupid_Sexy_Flander
Mar 14, 2007

Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?


Grimey Drawer

Hey, leave him alone. He couldn't even get a decent handy from his girlfriend on his birthday, and then she died. He's had a rough time.

ANOTHER SCORCHER
Aug 12, 2018


No Wave posted:

His reaction when Stormfront would go on about him being aryan perfection communicated it pretty succinctly. No, but also yes close enough.

He looked like a dude embarrassed about his girlfriendís weird ideas, but not put off by them.

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs 🎤of siren 🧜🏻‍♀️songs
To oohs😮 to ahhs😱 to 👏big👏applause👏
With all of my 😡anger I scream🤬 and shout📢
🇺🇸America🦅, I love you 🥰but you're freaking 💦me 😳out


Biscuit Hider

I think it might be more accurate to say that Stormfront is like Homelander more than the other way around. The core of what Stormfront and Homelander are the same, but Stormfront (and Nazism) does have some extra poo poo as part of the package that Homelander ends up being turned off/weirded out by. But it's still the same foundation, the same bigotry, the same fundamental worldview at the heart of both of them.

Like idk if the example works perfectly but you could think of it as maybe your garden variety racist getting annoyed with a KKK member they otherwise agree with and telling him to knock it off with that dumb grand wizard poo poo

Wheeee
Mar 11, 2001

When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.



itís not that the nazis were entirely wrong, itís that they were losers and are thus cringe

Homelander likes the countries that win world wars

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

This democrat lover wants you to donate to Nancy Pelosi! https://secure.actblue.com/donate/nancy-pelosi-2

Wheeee posted:

it’s not that the nazis were entirely wrong, it’s that they were losers and are thus cringe

Homelander likes the countries that win world wars

:sad:

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

This democrat lover wants you to donate to Nancy Pelosi! https://secure.actblue.com/donate/nancy-pelosi-2

Above all else, losing is the greatest sin to Homelander. Stormfronts delusion about an army of Ubermensch conquering the globe is offensive to him because:

1. Homelander runs the world already.

2. It ain't going to happen. It's loser talk. The fact that their visions are so similar and she failed suggests that his will fail too.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004



We just had this convo 10 pr 20 pages ago and came to a kind of agreement along with tons of references and diagrams.

RocketMermaid
Mar 30, 2004

No good news this chapter.

Heliotrope posted:

Why not? He's the head of pretty much the most powerful company on Earth. The fact that Homelander is still beholden to capitalism despite his powers fits the show.

Edgars is kind of a stand-in for a lot of James Stillwell's character from the comics, and he pretty much literally said this in the comic:

"I'm an expression of the corporation. I'm the voice that says--You're right, sue us. That never gets upset."

Edgars IS capitalism and the corporation, that completely dispassionate entity that only looks to what benefits itself and its profits. Homelander is just another product to be recalled the second he stops making money for Vought. If Vought has a setback because of Homelander, why, they'll just figure out the next product release and smooth it over. The corporation plays the long game because they know that, most of the time, they'll ultimately survive and win, and why reveal your hand by losing your temper?

Besides, as Edgars said, throwing an entitled tantrum "is a white man's luxury."

RocketMermaid fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Aug 4, 2022

That DICK!
Sep 28, 2010



Wheeee posted:

ďhomelander isnít racist! homelander isnít racist!Ē i continue to insist as his literal 1930ís nazi girlfriend looks at the camera and says people love her ideas, they just donít like the word nazi

Hmmmmmmmmm. Dumb as poo poo post. Missing the point it seems.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

Homelander doesn't have a coherent worldview. He's a psychotic narcissist who can't spend 15 minutes alone without having a breakdown and talking to his reflection.

Stormfront used to be human, had a normal childhood, and got superpowers around the same time she got indoctrinated with Nazi ideology. She's insightful enough to market fascism to the public by wrapping it in liberal feminism (which is totally in line with Vought's goals and a strategy munitions companies are using right now). She knows how to "act normal," which is utterly beyond Homelander, who has no concept of normal life beyond a set of props for photo ops.

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

This democrat lover wants you to donate to Nancy Pelosi! https://secure.actblue.com/donate/nancy-pelosi-2

https://twitter.com/PrimeVideoCA/status/1555191920011481091

Nameless Pete
May 8, 2007

Get a load of those...

I just got through binging the series. I like how Homelander watches Taxi Driver in season 2, foreshadowing how in season 3 the writers will also chicken out after the violent climax and spend the last few minutes undoing everything.

Nameless Pete fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Aug 5, 2022

The Last Call
Sep 9, 2011






https://twitter.com/VoughtIntl/status/1555599765466804226

Professor Beetus
Apr 12, 2007


Speak, Charles Barkley. Tell me what it is you want from me. I do not have much time and only one gift left to give.





Lotta scripted Vought stuff getting canceled.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

Please tell me the host of Property Flippers has flippers

Nuts and Gum
Mar 15, 2010

Age 18 to 49


I would like to watch rising tide.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

You love to see it


https://twitter.com/HomelanderDride/status/1555601094377721857?s=20&t=xHHfCfIIfx_uh_7TgCKF8w

Eau de MacGowan
May 12, 2009

Just a poor man's Park Ji Sung

Leapord

Winner, TRP Post of the Month September 2021


Nuts and Gum posted:

I would like to watch rising tide.

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Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

This democrat lover wants you to donate to Nancy Pelosi! https://secure.actblue.com/donate/nancy-pelosi-2

Nuts and Gum posted:

I would like to watch rising tide.

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