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Vote to threadban Bioshuffle
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No (also Goku) 25 14.62%
Total: 171 votes
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Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



It's been a long time since I read the comics but show Butcher seems much better-written in terms of being an rear end in a top hat that still has sympathetic moments / occasionally does the right thing. Comics Butcher was pretty much completely irredeemable from the jump and if anything the writing seemed to revel in it. The whole bit with Hughie being a moral canary in the coalmine seems like they're going to take that into a more complex direction, which I'm down for.

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Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



So what kind of leverage does Butcher's wife that she was able to bargain for his life? She's locked inside of a supermax compound with Superman, and it's not like she could stop him from doing whatever it is he feels like doing at any particular moment.

At first I thought it was a "leave him alone and I'll pretend to play nice in front of the kid" thing but that seems out the window, so it's hard to imagine what else would prevent Homelander from just popping Butcher like a water balloon.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



I kinda hope they kill Stormfront off relatively quickly because while she's putting in a great performance and it's a very hateable villain I don't particularly want to watch an entire season of some alt-right shitstain's murder spree.

At the very least we better get Vas out of this.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Golden Bee posted:

I got some bad news about Homelander

You're not wrong but I think there's an important distinction there - Homelander and Vought as a whole represent the latent fascism and cruelty of America - it's systemic, but in a way that gets presented as being dispassionate (which is why those kinds of people always want to twist data around or appeal to "reason" and legal authority, etc.). You get the sense that Homelander just thinks human beings are toys for his amusement, and that he doesn't care enough about them on a fundamental level to hate them for reasons of ideology or identity - of course this perspective still ends up reinforcing systemic oppression, but he probably wouldn't see it that way. You can see this when he deafens the Daredevil stand-in. He obviously thinks of him as a lesser person, but even when he's committing an act of shocking, but private, brutality, his justification is couched in terms of efficacy - "this guy wouldn't be able to do the job." Never mind that you could create any number of hypothetical situations where that would be true of every other superhero too.

Stormfront is basically Homelander without the veneer, essentially showing you what's underneath the flag he's wrapped in (which is part of why she pisses Homelander off so much), but the difference is that she's actually both cognizant of those inequalities and actively perpetuating them. It's much more personal and visceral seeing the violence she commits linked directly to a hateful ideology - I would say show Homelander obviously has no problem turning civilians into paste when they get in his way or become a minor inconvenience but he probably wouldn't go out of his way to kill someone just for being black like Stormfront does.

They are obviously both two sides of the same coin and the trailer makes it seem like they are not gonna be subtle about it at all, but there's definitely something more uncomfortable about Stormfront's scenes, which I think is very much deliberate.

It's even less subtle in the comics, where Homelander is explicitly cloned from Stormfront's DNA and freely tosses racial slurs around.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Starks posted:

Lol wait what part of Japan is Kimiko from that they have AK wielding terrorists

She's Japanese in the comics, but her origins are much more mundane there. The actress is Japanese-American and the character's name is definitely Japanese too, but from the flashbacks and the terrorist group being called the Shining Light Liberation Army it looked more like it's meant to be somewhere like Myanmar or Vietnam.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Democratic Pirate posted:

Well Hughie does constantly have the same eyebrow furrow that Bill Hader has at the end of this scene:

https://youtu.be/qw62N4v8Cwo

(I think about Bill Hader’s reaction face here more than I care to admit)

Man Barry is so good lol.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Has there been any word on how many seasons they have planned for this? I'm actually glad this diverged from the comics so hard because it's keeping things fresh and sidestepping the most egregious of the edgelord / racist poo poo in the source material, but the pacing feels a little strange - I can't tell if they're trying to drag things out for a bunch more seasons or if they specifically wanted a smaller "4 seasons and we're done" sort of thing and are now setting up all the pins just to quickly knock them down.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



It's kind of amazing how bad the fight choreography is across the board on film and television. Shows with small budgets I can understand but even tentpole blockbusters with quarter-billion dollar budgets just completely drop the ball on it constantly.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Lol someone is having fun writing the episode descriptions for this show.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

I do like that even she knows she went too far with her sass. When the lasereyes appear, you done hosed up.

I read that as her pretending to be scared to lull him into a false sense of security, especially based on the trailer "laser my tits" clip.

Unrelated, but that final scene has set up some wild possibilities - it kinda seems like Homelander could fake his own death? It seems like Doppelganger got "stuck" in his form when he died. They could be even less subtle about his character and have him to a Jesus-style resurrection to completely overshadow Stormfront in the public eye.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



I'd have to go back and look but isn't one of the little easter eggs in the shop that the Boys are living under a poster of a Liberty-branded anti-aging cream?

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Bust Rodd posted:

Doppelgänger seemed like a pretty cool person and I like the idea that his impossibly valuable and incredibly useful superhuman ability which would make him the most powerful living intelligence asset in human history is relegated to a sex doll and he/they seem perfectly content with that.

I'm curious to see what happens with that - I could see Vought being incredibly pissed because yeah, Doppelganger's ability is arguably the most useful / powerful of any of them outside of a pure "gently caress it, we're taking over" situation, especially in the context of them trying to integrate supes into national defense, but the fact that he's locked into Homelander's shape also has a ton of potential - at the very least it would let them lay the perfect trap for the Boys and send Butcher into a tailspin if he thinks his revenge got taken away from him somehow.

Also I like how they handled MM's backstory and I really, really hope if they go any deeper into it they stay as far away from the source material as possible because christ it's awful.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Zaphod42 posted:

Yeah that's Garth Ennis works in a nutshell. And this is edited.

Crossed is by far the worst offender on this front. Just purely pornographic violence that doesn't even attempt to say anything.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Bell_ posted:

Hopefully I find an opportunity to visit.

You can order salmiak off of Amazon - there's some Haribo ones that are like $5. Just note that when they say "salt" licorice, it's not table salt - it's ammonium chloride, which is extremely overwhelming for most people. I like em but there are double-salt versions out there that I have a hard time believing anyone actually eats except as some sadistic hazing ritual.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



As Nero Danced posted:

Every time I look into anything Garth Ennis has written that's what it sounds like. I can't tell if Ennis is a 13 year old that snuck his stuff into a comic editor's "approved" stack or someone editing a wiki page to sound as juvenile as possible. Apparently in the comics someone is snorting Maeve's vaginal secretions as a drug.

That's like one of the tamest things that happens, too.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Elephant Ambush posted:



I don't understand what was going on with Kimiko and Kenji either. Until she finds him, he's apparently all she thinks about and he's the only thing she has left and he means the world to her. Then after he declares that he wants to fight back against the 7 and America in general I have no idea why she would want to try to keep him from doing that or at least leaving The Boys to go with him and try to work on convincing him to change his mind. Frenchie was nice to her and all but she should be loyal to her brother first and foremost. It's not like him fighting imperialist fascists is something she should be against. Maybe she just wanted to stop fighting in general and just go home to hang out but at this point there really isn't any going back and it's weird that she chose to basically betray the person she cares about the most and turn him into the CIA where he will absolutely be tortured.




It's less that he's fighting back against America and more that he's doing it under the banner of the Shining Light Liberation Army guys that Kimiko is upset about. They're the ones who murdered their parents and turned them into child soldiers, so it's basically a Stockholm Syndrome situation. I don't think she gives a poo poo about his targets, but she obviously has reason to feel betrayed by Kenji teaming up with the people who were directly responsible for the catalyzing event behind all of their trauma and suffering.

BrotherJayne posted:

But if that's what those words mean (evil qal evil or whatever), they're dumb.

People do poo poo for reasons. Not always, or even often, for good reasons, or known reasons, but yeah.

That's what he was saying - that writing Homelander off as "just evil" is lazy and kinda boring. The show is explicitly asking the nature / nurture question by contrasting Homelander's upbringing with his son's, but it seems pretty obvious that the intention is to contextualize his evil, not justify it. He's not a sympathetic character - he's a pitiful one.

Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Sep 12, 2020

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



sponges posted:

It seems like with someone as popular as HL it’d be easy to look into his past and find out its all BS. Where did he grow up? What school did he attend? Everything would come up empty.

I doubt they'll bother going into it in the show since it's already kinda moved past the point where it's relevant, but in the comic they raised him in a lab with an atomic bomb strapped to him until he was an adult, and then they faked a Superman-style meteorite landing as his origin.

The comics have this kinda silly conceit where Vought runs PR / spins narratives through comic books, which normal people apparently read like they're newspapers to see what the supes are up to. Like they fake an alien invasion to go have a big week-long superhero orgy and apparently people just believe it? It's pretty dumb.

The show makes it pretty clear that everyone assumes superheroes are just a genetic lottery thing that could happen to anyone, which presumably the compound V leak is gonna shake up quite a bit.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Democratic Pirate posted:

I wonder if rich/famous people will start trying to buy Compound V for their kids, legally through Vought or via black market.

I can't remember, has the show actually gone into how expensive it is to make a supe at all?

In the comics, the weak version is $19 billion per dose, and that's explicitly still a complete joke compared to Homelander, Maeve, and Black Noir, who are implied to have cost basically the GDP of a developed country each.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.




lmao I didn't even notice that amazing cut when I first watched this, was too distracted by those facial expressions.

Also, Liberty is definitely Stormfront, but just for the sake of fun, these are the only two actual images of Liberty in the show so far I believe:

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



The show is doing its best with Maeve I think but part of the problem is that the source material gives them pretty much nothing to work with at all. She literally does nothing for like 90% of the comics except drink martinis and look out of a window, and goes out of her way to never interact with anyone.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Rando posted:

The 9/11 analog in the comics is that the plane Homelander abandons goes on to destroy the brooklyn bridge.

Which is bizarre because Ennis mostly uses this as an excuse to make really unsubtle comparisons to the twin towers - complete with panels that zoom in on them - while being Islamophobic.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Liked the episode but I'm gonna go against the grain a bit and say that fakeout was lame and kinda lazy. The Hughie one in the first episode worked as a one-time thing to emphasize the trajectory he was on and as a stylistic representation of his immediate trauma but too many shows start using those moments really loosely and it sucks a bunch of tension out of scenes if you know they can just pull the rug out from under them at whim.

It's also gonna feel less impactful when he finally goes off for real.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



I need to watch it again but does Stormfront have a healing factor thing going on? They kept doing weird cuts on her chest where it looked like the skin was kinda bubbling / reforming between laserings but they never lingered on it long enough for me to tell if it was meant to be healing or blistering or what.

I assume she heals from it since otherwise she'd be walking around with a giant visible scar, but the show has been kinda inconsistent about the subject. Kimiko can regenerate, and so can the dude who stole the V for Starlight (even though in his case it's treated like some unique ability?); Black Noir seems to have some regenerative capability as well, and A-Train was not only able to recover from a completely snapped-in-half leg but also stayed the fastest man in the world until his heart started making GBS threads out, which apparently doesn't heal?

I know it's all hand-wavy magic at the end of the day but it's hard to tell if anything short of outright killing a supe is even a big deal for them.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Also minor comic spoiler I guess but the congressman's name is Victoria Neuman, like "Vic the Veep" Neuman? Can't tell if that's something they're gonna actually incorporate or if it's just a little easter egg.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



spacetoaster posted:

I was kinda surprised at how bad noir's hiding was.

Unless it was on purpose as an intimidation tactic?

It seems like they can't make up their minds if he's a super ninja, or clumsy doofus.

I read it partly as a sight gag pointing out how silly Batman would be if he ever operated in the daytime. But also by that point he didn't really need to stay hidden - he was able to follow them and observe them without being noticed until the point that they were all sitting ducks inside a house, and it seems like his goal was a confrontation instead of just recon anyway.

It matches up with him doing stealthy takedowns on the terrorist compound guys but then just letting the last one blast him even though he obviously could have easily avoided it. I think he just likes intimidating / toying with people. MM said he can outrun a car so it's not like they could have gotten away from him anyway.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Antony Starr is rail-thin in real life so in addition to the pube smash someone definitely had to spend hours of SFX work fleshing out his naked thighs and rear end so they didn't look comically tiny compared to his muscle-suited upper body.

No appreciation for the real heroes.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



He's even skinnier than that nowadays, I wouldn't have guessed at all until someone in this thread posted some con panel that he was in and I was shocked by how much padding the suit had.

This is him a few months ago working out for season 2.



He's naturally a pretty small dude.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Based on the terrorist compound scene, Black Noir is absolutely capable of being stealthy when he wants to be - but he also likes intimidating people and seems to get bored / lazy easily, which makes sense when you're a functionally invulnerable person who can run faster than a car.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



GoGoGadgetChris posted:

IMDB credits a man as playing Love Sausage next episode




Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Still not quite sure how much of Stormfront's demeanor around Homelander is genuinely being intimidated vs just being smart enough to know that he's much easier to manipulate when he thinks someone is afraid of him.

There's a great little moment where he tries that thumb-on-the-neck thing that he's pulled on a few people before and even when he really puts some oomph into it she barely reacts at all. Starr's face does one of those little micro-cycles through confusion / frustration before jumping back to being self-assured, but I think he's genuinely kind of unnerved by her and the way she acts around him doesn't match up at all with that. Emotionally, she definitely throws him for a loop and he obviously doesn't like that.

Which is to say, both actors are doing a really good job of selling uncertainty about each other, like they're both kind of circling and looking for little gaps in each others' armor. But Stormfront seems to be much savvier while Homelander approaches it with the arrogance of someone who thinks they're peerless, which is pretty much classical dramatic hubris.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Aces High posted:

I did this once while surfing, it was a Hero5 and those were advertised to be waterproof to like 15m or something, since I didn't have it in a protected case, made for a very interesting video because the undertow kept it moving (also made it very difficult to find, but I did). Deep said his aquatic friends found it floating amid some of the wreckage, do those plastic cases float? I know some do, for putting larger digital cameras and stuff in them

The one they recovered is just a regular dive grip and they sink like a fuckin' rock.

If I recall correctly the plane went down in like the middle of the ocean and it definitely wouldn't have survived that - a regular old waterpoof case like 99.9% of people would own is good up to about 100 feet, and even the expensive deep-sea housing won't survive below 200. Realistically the odds of a GoPro surviving a plane crash and sinking in the middle of the ocean is 0% but eh, lots of details in this show wouldn't hold up to scrutiny and telling a good story is more important anyway.

Completely unrelated but my French buddy keeps ranting to me about how terrible Frenchie's accent is lol. I didn't realize the actor was Israeli and I assumed he was doing a slightly exaggerated accent for TV audiences but apparently its so bad that my friend needed to turn on subtitles because he couldn't understand what he was supposed to be saying half the time when he sprinkles in French words.

Then again I understand him just fine and French people are incredible language snobs so vOv.

I am slightly disappointed that we're probably not getting the baguette jousting bit from the comic, even though that was almost certainly just Ennis getting a jingoistic jab at the French after 9/11.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Jedit posted:

It's got nothing to do with Ennis hating the French. Let's Parler Franglais! was a famous series of satirical articles written in the 1970s by Miles Kington for Punch magazine, in which he parodied British tourists on the continent and their habit of speaking Foreign using a bastardised grammar and dropping in the English word whenever they didn't know the correct one in the local language. Frenchie speaks the same way, and his "origin story" - along with the Female's, which he tells later - is a work of fiction that he made up because Hughie broke the fourth wall and asked about it. All of which is the evidence for the thing you mention about him having a mental break while serving in the Legion.

It's almost certainly both - lots of the comic's subtext (and actual text) is just that gross flavor of post-9/11 "patriotism" and there's no way Ennis wasn't at least partially wrapped up in that "the French are all cowards for not helping us invade" given all the other other asides he makes.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Butcher escalating things to the point where someone unnecessarily dies is the entire point, hence the earlier confrontation with Starlight where she compares him to Homelander, and the scene with his wife, and the scene where he starts a random fight at a nightclub and hospitalizes a dude (in the best case scenario) just to feel something. That's the basic gist of the character and the reason why Hughie being his "canary" is important - Butcher's entire arc is one big "stare too long into the abyss" moment that he seems to mostly be losing himself to.

There were a dozen ways they could have avoided killing that guy and probably even handled the situation faster and with less risk to Hughie, but Butcher didn't want to. Not only that, he's clearly a corrupting influence, which is why Starlight tries to call him out for quietly approving of her actions and why everyone in Butcher's orbit wanted nothing to do with him at first. There's a good scene in season 1 where MM calls him out for putting people in danger in the name of his own revenge - he says something like "last time it was Mallory's family, but this time it would be my family". Butcher talks about Supes seeing humans like insects but everyone else is just as disposable to him as they are to Homelander.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Yeah I wasn't quite sure what to make of that last shot with Cindy, the way it was shot definitely doesn't imply that driver just changed his mind and pulled over but she does get in the passenger seat. Kinda gross but I guess maybe she popped him and needed to get in there to kinda scoop him out of the driver's side? She also twisted up the doors and stuff in the hospital so maybe she just forced the car to stop - not really sure how much fine control she has over her power. I guess if someone telekinetically brings your car to a halt on the side of the road and hops in you're probably just gonna give em a lift.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



veni veni veni posted:

Can't help but wonder how the hell they kept cindy in the cell to begin with.

They said they were keeping them doped up but it's still kinda silly, yeah. I also don't really see how the logistics of using her to pop Raynor's head works - Vought wheel her out conscious and free enough to blow up someone's head and she doesn't just kill them instead? Why would she do dirty work for the people who are using her for a lab rat? Was there some reason I'm not remembering why they couldn't just tell Homelander "hey this CIA agent is snooping around where she shouldn't be, fly over there at the speed of sound and laser her real quick"?

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



eSporks posted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project


I'm going to make the prediction they had her stare at a picture.

I guess this would fit the pattern of the supes that have objectively the most use for intelligence gathering / wetworks operations getting completely shafted in favor of the flashy Homelander types.

Like realistically Doppelganger, Mesmer, and someone who could assassinate people anywhere in the world by looking at their picture would be the CIA / JSOC's wet dream but Vought's pitch to the military is having Superman doing laser-powered strafing runs instead.

I am 100% down for more insane real-life CIA projects getting showtime though.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Keltar posted:

Pretty sure I read a report during season one he had to be kept told no when he wanted Homelander to do a scene from the comic, you know, the one where he's jerking off on top of a building yelling he can do whatever he wants.


The Female was pretty much what she was called in everything, any time you see their names listed she was only ever The Female. I think the part your talking about was only ever said in one issue by Butcher if I remember right, it's been long ago, and really couldn't they have taken five seconds to give her a proper name.

It was the title on the issue she was introduced in and the title of the episode she first appeared in in the show, but I agree that it's pretty dumb that she only ever got called that. Like make your Kipling allusion so you can show everyone how smart you are and then come up with something else - it's not a nickname anyone would ever call someone in real life, especially not in something that's basically a military unit. Frenchie and M.M. are short, clear, and roll off the tongue and feel believable but "the female" absolutely does not.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



MM's storyline is easily the grossest poo poo in the comics by far, in so many ways.

edit: v-- yeah, they've done a surprisingly good job of threading the needle with him so far. All of the characters across the board have been given more depth, honestly.

Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Oct 1, 2020

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.




This neatly sidesteps the fact that his "mother" in this case is a giant blob of flesh locked in a basement with giant nipple tentacles.. Or the subplot where his 12-year-old daughter, who looks like an adult because of the trace V in her system passed on from MM, gets talked into doing mother-daughter porn with MM's crack-addicted wife. It's genuinely vile and Ennis is a gross racist sack of poo poo.

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Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.



Gynovore posted:

Wait whaaaaat? I remember the part where Butcher ran off her rear end in a top hat boyfriends but this is a new one.

Yeah it's really awful stuff.

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