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canyoneer posted:Just learned about this from a book I was reading, about that time the Secretary of the Navy got decapitated by a demonstration of an experimental gun on the USS Princeton the article posted:Amazingly, the man most responsible for the Peacemaker tragedy faced no official punishment. 
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Jan 20, 2022 17:11
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Dick Burglar posted:"Amazingly" TRADITION!
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Jan 20, 2022 17:25
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Dick Burglar posted:"Amazingly" It's funny because they were deeply embarrassed by it, and when they couldn't blame it on the gun crew it was brushed off as just a thing that happens with cannons. In John Tyler's own words: "[It] must be set down as one of the casualties which, to a greater or lesser degree, attend upon every service, and which are invariably incident to the temporal affairs of mankind" Sometimes cannons just blow up, whaddya gonna do?  It is pretty neat that the guy who designed it was John Ericsson, brilliant naval inventor who invented the screw propeller, guided torpedo, and designed the ironclad USS Monitor. Ericsson was not present for the demonstration because he trusted his gun (Peacemaker), but doubted the construction and safety of Stockton's gun (Oregon). In the tradition of the early 19th century US Navy, no careers were impacted and nothing was learned. Here's another fun one, from the commander of the US Exploring Expedition (subject of the book I just finished, Sea of Glory). The expedition was supposed to be for 3 years, but they needed another year to accomplish their objectives. All the enlisted mens' terms were up at 3 years, and by law they were allowed to leave duty and return to their home station. So the commander had to convince them to stay on, so he wouldn't be short-handed for the remaining difficult surveying of the Pacific Northwest and Columbia river. Note also that 12 lashes was the legal limit of the punishment that a captain could impose without a formal court martial. quote:The sailors’ and marines’ terms of duty expired in November, and Wilkes was required to provide them with transportation home if they chose not to reenlist. After their raucous two-week fling in Honolulu, most of the sailors opted to remain with the squadron. Those who did decide to leave were replaced with native Hawaiians, who would be returned to Honolulu after the squadron’s visit to the Pacific Northwest. When it came to the marines, Wilkes adopted a different policy. The marines functioned as the squadron’s police force, and Wilkes knew that it would be difficult to find adequate replacements in Hawaii. He therefore demanded that they remain with the Expedition until its conclusion. When four marines refused to reenlist, Wilkes responded by placing them in solitary confinement in a rat-infested fort in Honolulu. Twelve days later, he cut their meager rations of taro and goat’s milk in half. A week after that, the marines, all of them in double irons and deathly pale after almost a month’s imprisonment, were brought back to the Vincennes. Wilkes asked if they were now willing to return to duty. When they refused, he threw them in the ship’s brig. Two days later he brought all four to the gangway and asked if they had changed their minds. After they once again insisted that their enlistments had expired, Wilkes gave each of them a dozen lashes, then threw them back in the brig. Marines were in a peculiar situation when it came to flogging. The U.S. Army had outlawed the practice back in 1812; but it was still legal in the navy. This meant that a marine on land couldn’t be flogged; but if he should be unlucky enough to serve aboard a naval vessel, he, along with the sailors, must fear the lash. Three days later, Wilkes ordered the marines back to the gangway, where they were each given another twelve lashes. Only then, “for the preservation of their lives,” did the marines agree to reenlist. Torturing the Marines to get them to reenlist. How did that work out for him in a court martial back in port? quote:Wilkes was found not guilty on all charges except for illegally flogging the sailors and marines. For that, his only punishment was a public reprimand. But as a 19th century officer and a gentleman, you should know that the reprimand really hurt his feelings
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Jan 20, 2022 18:00
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How does a commander like that not get murdered by his crew? Would have been well deserved too. Should give him one lash for each one he gave his men.
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Jan 20, 2022 19:07
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Erikkson was also extremely mad that the Monitors gun crews was told to undercharge their guns going into the battle with the Virginia. At standard charge the cannons should have ripped through the V like it was built with soggy melon.
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Jan 20, 2022 19:07
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GD_American posted:As a resident of a neighboring state, we don't want their refugees. Get them all in one sweep or just keep them contained Supply me enough booze and I can make one of those things happen. Now, I realize that sounds like extortion. Because it is.
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Jan 20, 2022 19:18
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Mustang posted:How does a commander like that not get murdered by his crew? Would have been well deserved too. Should give him one lash for each one he gave his men. What's funny is that the people who hated him most were the other officers. The (much more numerous) sailors didn't interact with him directly very often, and some of them didn't have enough experience to know how uniquely bad he was. If you already hate your boss and your boss's boss, you're not really an ally with them against the big boss. Someone came close though. A ship's boy named Charlie who Wilkes had taken somewhat of a mentorship towards. They had a falling out because Wilkes had him whipped for some offense. It was the result of a misunderstanding, but was otherwise legal and normal. Couple months later he had motive and opportunity to brain him: quote:"Eleven days after leaving Norfolk, at midnight on August 29, Charlie came on deck to relieve the lookout on the lee quarter. There was a slight swell, but little wind. While walking the Vincennes’s deck, Charlie paused to look down the cabin skylight. Sitting at the table was “the man who had ordered me to be flogged.” Even at this late hour, Wilkes was awake, studying a chart. Charlie remembered the sting of the colt as if he had been punished yesterday. The officer of the deck began to walk forward, leaving Charlie alone beside the skylight. Stacked on a nearby rack were some belaying pins—iron cylinders to which were fastened the ropes of the ship’s running rigging. As if in a trance, he found himself reaching for one of the belaying pins and holding it over the skylight. If he waited another second, the roll of the ship would bring Wilkes’s head directly beneath the heavy iron pin. But just as he was about to drop the pin through the pane of glass, Charlie was transfixed by a vision of his mother. “My God!” he gasped. “What does this mean?” Greatly shaken, he returned the belaying pin to the rack, unable at first to disengage his fingers. The officer of the deck sang out through his speaking trumpet, “A bright lookout fore and aft!” Charlie blurted, “Ay, ay, sir,” and the Vincennes sailed on for Madeira, her officers and men oblivious to how close they had come to losing their commander."
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Jan 20, 2022 19:50
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Yeah that's south in Chesapeake I think. Not actually far from another hazardous site, Groverhaus. Wait, wait, wait - Groverhaus is in my area? How am I just now finding this out?
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Jan 20, 2022 20:01
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canyoneer posted:Sometimes cannons just blow up, whaddya gonna do? There's actually a bit of truth to this, considering that a void in the casting could go undetected until the cannon suddenly can't hold the pressure anymore.
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Jan 20, 2022 20:14
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Crabdad, this you?
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Jan 20, 2022 20:55
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This isn’t the hero thread
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Jan 20, 2022 20:58
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canyoneer posted:
Forever ago I worked for a summer in the National Archives' Navy office, and one of the files I had to inventory was the court-martial records for a midshipman in the early 1800s who was court-martialed and dismissed the service for running up a huge tobacco, clothes, and alcohol bill ashore and charging it to the ship. Multiple times. After being told to knock it off.
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Jan 20, 2022 21:02
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Notahippie posted:Forever ago I worked for a summer in the National Archives' Navy office, and one of the files I had to inventory was the court-martial records for a midshipman in the early 1800s who was court-martialed and dismissed the service for running up a huge tobacco, clothes, and alcohol bill ashore and charging it to the ship. Multiple times. After being told to knock it off. boop the snoot posted:This isn’t the hero thread
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Jan 20, 2022 21:50
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One of the charges dismissed against him was the crime of organizing a revenge mission (when two sailors were killed) to murder over a hundred native Fijians and burn their village. The officers under him accused him of ordering the massacre against their will. Defense produced the officers' journals which showed that actually everybody was really excited about the idea of killing a bunch of people and the commander had to be sort of coaxed into it. Same expedition was the source of ~20% of the Smithsonian's collection when it opened.
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Jan 20, 2022 22:23
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madeintaipei posted:Crabdad, this you? Impressive but I can’t fly.
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Jan 20, 2022 22:53
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Crab Dad posted:Impressive but I can’t fly. Not with that attitude.
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Jan 20, 2022 23:33
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madeintaipei posted:Crabdad, this you? These quote sky artists unquote are a cancer.
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Jan 21, 2022 00:37
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Mustang posted:How does a commander like that not get murdered by his crew? Would have been well deserved too. Should give him one lash for each one he gave his men. a question that could be frankly asked of every single military across all of history
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Jan 21, 2022 00:43
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atelier morgan posted:a question that could be frankly asked of every single military across all of history Because if they did they'd be lucky to just be hanged.
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Jan 21, 2022 01:18
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Dick Burglar posted:"Amazingly" “No official punishment”? Hell, they went on to name a city for him.
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Jan 21, 2022 01:32
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canyoneer posted:It's funny because they were deeply embarrassed by it, and when they couldn't blame it on the gun crew it was brushed off as just a thing that happens with cannons. In John Tyler's own words: Who actually physically put the marines in the brig? I thought that was the kind of thing the marines did.
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Jan 21, 2022 02:52
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Splode posted:Who actually physically put the marines in the brig? I thought that was the kind of thing the marines did. I’d assume able bodied seamen would jump at the opportunity to lock up some marines.
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Jan 21, 2022 03:19
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Crab Dad posted:I’d assume able bodied seamen would jump at the opportunity to lock up some marines. Ah that makes sense thanks
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Jan 21, 2022 03:23
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MrUnderbridge posted:Wait, wait, wait - Groverhaus is in my area? How am I just now finding this out? That’s why they call it the dismal swamp. https://twitter.com/rbxbex/status/1462880237537083395?s=21
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Jan 21, 2022 17:53
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https://twitter.com/DJSnM/status/1484605713066479616?s=20
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Jan 21, 2022 20:21
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Splode posted:Who actually physically put the marines in the brig? I thought that was the kind of thing the marines did. I'd imagine the other marines.
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Jan 21, 2022 21:06
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I'm apparently part of the Sons of American Legion now. Am I posting in the right thread?
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Jan 22, 2022 16:52
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Kith posted:I'm apparently part of the Sons of American Legion now. Am I posting in the right thread? Sure, but normally we’d be posting about you 
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Jan 22, 2022 17:24
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Icon Of Sin posted:Sure, but normally we’d be posting about you I didn't do it on purpose, someone signed me up because of all of the volunteer stuff I did completely on accident by helping my dad with events whenever I visited. Dues paid for life and the whole nine yards, apparently.
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Jan 22, 2022 18:28
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COVID truther and "Asking about my vaccination status is a HIPPA violation" person decided to take a run at Tammy Duckworth in a rather novel way: https://twitter.com/DaughertyMJ/status/1485478892697706498?s=20 For when he inevitably deletes it:  Who is this person, though? Oh, just a CEO and expert in "cyber education." 
Softface fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 07:44
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 x-post from bad tattoo thread
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Jan 24, 2022 16:04
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NOT A NAZI SYMBOL *gets nazi award tattooed in honor of someone who literally fought in the Wehrmacht*
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Jan 24, 2022 16:08
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2008 was a simpler time. Not that it was excusable then, but in a pre-GFC/Black president America, I could accept someone legit being that tone deaf in a way that hasn't been possible since.
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Jan 24, 2022 16:19
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The myth of the clean Wehrmacht is pretty much official US Army history so yeah that guy might actually believe his grandpa wasn’t a Nazi. This of course makes him an idiot. Even if grandpa wasn’t a Nazi, he was ok with helping Nazi poo poo.
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Jan 24, 2022 16:28
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img-thatsapenis except he says "that's a nazi"
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Jan 24, 2022 19:15
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Stolen (nazi) valor.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:19
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Ribbons into flesh makes me very uncomfortable
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Jan 24, 2022 19:34
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Probably the only person with that tattoo who thinks Hitler was a bad guy, so I guess he gets some credit? Speaking of idiots and Germans, I recently found out about Operation Wikinger, a wonderful combined Kriegsmarine/Luftwaffe self own https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wikinger E: CainFortea posted:Is the iron cross still awarded in the german military? It is currently, although it wasn't used for quite a while post WWII. The iron cross predated nazi Germany, it's not necessarily assumed to be a nazi symbol in Germany in the same way you assume some things about a guy in the US sporting one, but it's not entirely disconnected from nazism either. EvenWorseOpinions fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 22:12
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Icon Of Sin posted:NOT A NAZI SYMBOL Is the iron cross still awarded in the german military?
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Jan 24, 2022 22:31
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Some idiot I was in JROTC with, who thankfully didn’t end up joining the military, worked with my dad for a bit. I guess he’s into collecting Nazi guns now and will lecture anyone he can trap into a conversation about dumb Clean Wehrmacht poo poo. Also he’s a Trekkie.
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Jan 24, 2022 22:37
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