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I never wanted to own my PTSD. Now, I have no choice. :-)
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Jul 8, 2020 17:40
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I think another factor is rotation and fraternization policies. Nobody from my first ship was on my second ship, one person from the first ship is at my third. I've never been stationed with the same person in the military more than three years (though I see them at training commands), and as my career goes on, there might be one or two I'll share commands with 5+ years within the entire Navy. Even those that are may be emotionally separated from me due to fraternization rules--I'm not exactly going out drinking with the second classes. I know people stick around the same circles a bit more in the Marines and the Army, but I imagine the same phenomenon occurs. When I'm brought into a room to report on AZ1 so-and-so or a assigned to a PII on LTJG xyz, my personal relationship won't affect my judgement because I've never met them. In cops, I suspect you run into situations where you've known Officer Bob since the academy, he would never have done that. In fact, he's Officer Alice's Kids' Godfather. Officer Charlie agrees because one time Officer Bob went out of his way to save Officer Charlie's career--it's only fitting he do the same. Officer Daniels wont disagree--Officer Bob trained him, after all. This means that, among police, it much more often requires an outside activity to be part of the solution. Naturally the incentives within the honor cultures that form in workplaces are aligned differently. "I, against my brothers. I and my brothers against my cousins. I and my brothers and my cousins against the world." To the officers working together, they're brothers and Internal Affairs are the cousins, and I suspect "had three of their six subordinates arrested by internal affairs" doesn't do well for police promotion, even if it's because 50% of the precinct is crooked and they were doing the best job supporting ongoing investigations. Just more friction at every step.
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Jul 8, 2020 17:47
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Vahakyla posted:Grem in The Wire shoots a black cop. Prez also pistol-whips that kid's eyeball out for giving him lip. Which Daniels covers up to save his own career.
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Jul 8, 2020 18:14
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I think someone touched on something I hadn't fully considered- every trooper, regardless of service branch, gets trained in morality/values. It becomes a part of indoc, and while it might not fully take hold inside every trooper, being constantly reminded and having it be a real thing in discipline, does put in a basic moral frame work. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing. I have an old book written by a guy who created the first psychological exam and standard for LE in California in the 60s/70s. While it wasn't perfect, it was a system that at least temporarily suppressed police violence. He also made a push on the book to stop importing cops from the loving South to deal with the population explosion of Blacks moving to places like Compton.
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Jul 8, 2020 18:16
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Double posting- I grew up in Baltimore. As a kid, Western district cops were fairly famous for roughing up criminals, giving them a set of lumps, take their poo poo (often throwing it down the sewer/stomping on vials) and letting them go with no charges. It created a very strange ecosystem where you didn't get in real trouble, but got rolled by the cops. Created this weird balance that really got upset when they brought in O'Malley and Ed Norris. Not an expert, though, and I've been known to be wrong a time or two.
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Jul 8, 2020 18:21
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piL posted:In cops, I suspect you run into situations where you've known Officer Bob since the academy, he would never have done that. In fact, he's Officer Alice's Kids' Godfather. Officer Charlie agrees because one time Officer Bob went out of his way to save Officer Charlie's career--it's only fitting he do the same. Officer Daniels wont disagree--Officer Bob trained him, after all. Another part is that in the military, there's always a bigger fish than you who will come down and gently caress you up if you make them look bad. At the local level, as long as you can throw out enough to tarnish the life of the dead to make boomers think they deserve it you can usually dodge without any serious repercussions. Converesly, making waves and making the local Chief's life hard by blowing the whistle gets you harassed and thrown in the nuthouse if you refuse to step in line.
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Jul 8, 2020 18:56
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CainFortea posted:You know, now that I think about it I can't recall seeing a single episode in a serious cop drama or police procedure show that has a cop killing a civilian. Southland had a bad shoot if I'm remembering right. There was a lot of hosed up poo poo in The Shield too.
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Jul 8, 2020 19:09
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CainFortea posted:You know, now that I think about it I can't recall seeing a single episode in a serious cop drama or police procedure show that has a cop killing a civilian. In "The Place Beyond The Pines" Bradley Cooper shoots Ryan Gosling first, then the cops go to his girlfriend's place where they intimidate her and steal some poo poo. Bradley Cooper turns in the other cops and immediately leaves the force because he knows he can't stay there. The internal affairs guys basically call him a piece of poo poo snitch as they're taking his statement and stuff. Not exactly a blockbuster but ya'know. 
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Jul 8, 2020 19:14
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DaNerd posted:In "The Place Beyond The Pines" Bradley Cooper shoots Ryan Gosling first, then the cops go to his girlfriend's place where they intimidate her and steal some poo poo. Bradley Cooper turns in the other cops and immediately leaves the force because he knows he can't stay there. The internal affairs guys basically call him a piece of poo poo snitch as they're taking his statement and stuff. Funny that you mention The Place Beyond the Pines...
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Jul 8, 2020 19:27
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bulletsponge13 posted:I think someone touched on something I hadn't fully considered- every trooper, regardless of service branch, gets trained in morality/values. It becomes a part of indoc, and while it might not fully take hold inside every trooper, being constantly reminded and having it be a real thing in discipline, does put in a basic moral frame work. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing.
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Jul 8, 2020 21:26
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TCD posted:Southland had a bad shoot if I'm remembering right. There was a lot of hosed up poo poo in The Shield too. Southland handled that poo poo really well, the character that was basically the protagonist and started as basically a good cop got increasingly corrupted by the system as the show went on and was a complete sack of poo poo by the end.
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Jul 8, 2020 22:15
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brains posted:the push to instill basic morals on new recruits and the constant refrain of professionalism, along with legal training on laws of war, rules of engagement, etc., is essentially a direct response to military failures of moral judgement in the past and you can draw a straight line from the atrocities in Vietnam to the criminality and drug problems of the 80s/90s to the moral and legal training today. Kill Anything That Moves is a good history of US atrocities in Vietnam if anyone wants a real depressing read. I broke down sobbing a couple times.
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Jul 9, 2020 02:11
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UP THE BUM NO BABY posted:Kill Anything That Moves is a good history of US atrocities in Vietnam if anyone wants a real depressing read. I broke down sobbing a couple times. Added it to my list. It's got to be less depressing than "Stamped from the Beginning"(what I'm currently balls deep in) which is just so sad and angering.
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Jul 9, 2020 02:48
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Vahakyla posted:Grem in The Wire shoots a black cop. Who the gently caress is Grem? That was Pryzblylewski
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Jul 9, 2020 05:57
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Southland handled that poo poo really well, the character that was basically the protagonist and started as basically a good cop got increasingly corrupted by the system as the show went on and was a complete sack of poo poo by the end. Southland was the best cop centered show I've ever seen. Even the "good guys" were still shown to be problematic in many ways and you had one cop so blatantly racist he gets punched in the face by another cop and they both get in trouble.
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Jul 9, 2020 06:23
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Milo and POTUS posted:Who the gently caress is Grem? That was Pryzblylewski Woops. There was a gooncop named Grem who had Pryz as his avatar forever. The dots connected wrong in my head.
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Jul 9, 2020 06:35
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Oh good, I'm not going insane. I was wracking my brains to remember who the gently caress Grem was in The Wire
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Jul 9, 2020 06:50
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This was a pretty good video about militarization of cops, accountability for armed forces, and how the framers of the constitution didn't want a bunch of knucklehead 19 year old boots crashing in your guest room. https://youtu.be/n7Rm3tuMFTI
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Jul 9, 2020 06:56
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One thing I don't think has been mentioned yet is the lack of standards for cops. Some basic behaviours are expected from all soldiers. And then, if a soldier has been on a particular course, you have a reasonable idea of what they've been trained on, and what standard you'd expect them to perform to, and what the highest echelons expected when they developed the course. By contrast, US police forces are parochial as gently caress with very uneven initial training. The ones that allow brutality routinely normalize the behaviour for the other ones and there's no one up top to say that this police force is performing worse than the others and needs to be brought up to scratch.
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Jul 9, 2020 10:10
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In lighter news
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Jul 9, 2020 11:01
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o7
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Jul 9, 2020 11:50
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Force de Fappe posted:In lighter news I'm the idiot who never noticed your username was short an "r" until just now, that is a masterpiece.
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Jul 9, 2020 12:07
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Can we take a moment to talk about how the idiot thread had a meaningful conversation about police, their training, and why the military is different without breaking down into name calling? I had to double check to see if I was in the ACAB thread. The difference is startling.
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Jul 9, 2020 13:24
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ASAPI posted:Can we take a moment to talk about how the idiot thread had a meaningful conversation about police, their training, and why the military is different without breaking down into name calling? Probably because a critical mass of posters here have had the unfortunate experience of both the positive and negative sides of the military, enough dealings with police and their training, and even though it sucks to subject the mind to it continue to read books detailing the failings and atrocities that we've committed in all armed actions. There's tons of introspection in this thread and the posters here. It's really good to see because it serves to give hope that we can learn from our past instead of burying it.
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Jul 9, 2020 20:05
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PathAsc posted:Probably because a critical mass of posters here have had the unfortunate experience of both the positive and negative sides of the military, enough dealings with police and their training, and even though it sucks to subject the mind to it continue to read books detailing the failings and atrocities that we've committed in all armed actions. Well said. Sometimes I forget this is the idiot thread.We really swing from "dick is stuck in the porta-potty" to "in depth look at the training failures of [INSERT ORGANIZATION]"
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Jul 9, 2020 20:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nQzFGe1yMk This belongs here Vengarr fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jul 9, 2020 |
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Jul 9, 2020 21:26
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Vengarr posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nQzFGe1yMk This thing is a loving trip. Someone should post who made it if they know, so the rest of us can avoid them And now back to your regularly scheduled idiots The caption was "never swiped right so fast" 
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Jul 10, 2020 02:12
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Tunicate posted:I remember seeing a site called 'no nonsense self defense' where 90% of it was just 'how to avoid getting into a situation where you might need to use violence', and most of the remainder was just methods of running away The best martial art, as far as keeping yourself safe, is track and field. Most people who want to kick your rear end aren't prepared to run a 5k to do it.
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Jul 10, 2020 04:41
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Liquid Communism posted:The best martial art, as far as keeping yourself safe, is track and field. You can't always run.
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Jul 10, 2020 04:44
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Probably why they said best and not only.
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Jul 10, 2020 06:01
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Obviously the best martial art is the biathlon.
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Jul 10, 2020 06:17
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Platystemon posted:Obviously the best martial art is the biathlon. Walking home late from work, I see a group of men talking to each other. One sees me and they all stop talking, and slowly walk towards me. My hands grip the skis I have concealed in my backpack
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Jul 10, 2020 07:47
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Platystemon posted:Obviously the best martial art is the Fixed that for you. Patton knew.
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Jul 10, 2020 10:32
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The Rat posted:Yeah, and it works both ways since art and life both continue. I know this is from couple days back, but what a great way to put it. All these brovet communities are so extremely strange to me. I've never been deployed, but I see my peers who have already ETSed as slick sleeve bitches do the whole beard, gruntstyle shirt, with massive PTSD fetishization on their facebook timeline or instagram stories. I guess it's a desire to fit in or something, but it appears so loving bizarre.
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Jul 10, 2020 11:12
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It's 100% damaged guys are badass because they can snap at any moment and it's the spitting image of toxic masculinity
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Jul 10, 2020 12:41
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Memento posted:The caption was "never swiped right so fast" I'm old and have never used Tinder. Is right "like" or "don't like"?
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Jul 10, 2020 13:14
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Scratch Monkey posted:I'm old and have never used Tinder. Is right "like" or "don't like"? Swiped right is approval, and I think the original poster was being facetious. I had to look that up myself.
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Jul 10, 2020 13:18
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Scratch Monkey posted:I'm old and have never used Tinder. Is right "like" or "don't like"? Wait, it isn't Grindr?
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Jul 10, 2020 18:43
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Wild T posted:Wait, it isn't Grindr? I don't think he's trying to order a sandwich.
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Jul 10, 2020 18:59
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 10:47 |
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One of my coworkers got extremely upset about kneeling football guy whose name I can't remember a while back and made a big deal about how it disrespected his sacrifices for his country and he kept hinting at having been through extreme trauma and stress that only military people would understand. I've never been in the military and especially never deployed, but I get the picture he's being a bit melodramatic considering he was in the air force and only ever deployed to Germany and Korea?
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Jul 10, 2020 19:26
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