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Man, Negotiations are so fun. Made a Powder Keg deck, drafted as few cards as possible, and then just repeatedly created and duplicated and destroyed Powder Kegs. Also had the Graft that heals you for your starting hand's cost (though it nearly killed me since it damages you for your starting hand's cost prior to its upgrade), so the blowback from destroying my Renown didn't hurt. Wanna try something similar but with Hot Air Balloons instead. One of these days I'm going to have to stop playing with Mutators so I can unlock Prestige 2 but that's not today.
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Jun 21, 2021 04:54
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Man, Negotiations are so fun. I had this ridiculous combo in a Rook game the other day:  Combined with the coin that gives influence on heads and a bunch of other influence generation, I think I had a few negotiations that I did over 40 damage in one hit with Matter of Fact
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Jun 21, 2021 14:14
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Ooh, I wanted to play a deck like that. Sort of made a slapped together deck around that concept in my first or second Sal playthrough but obviously my deck was too cluttered to do a seemless combo. There's also a Diplomacy card that doubles all Composure on your cards, that's what I intended to use. Also a similar concept with Smith, except you expended all Renown. It wasn't as effective though.
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Jun 21, 2021 14:56
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Man I loving love this game, I somehow didn't realize I had like 50 hours over the course of early access and doubled it since the 1.0 release. I like Slay the Spire but the equivalent mode in Griftlands scratches the itch more effectively for me, I think. There's something immensely funny about executing at every possible opportunity and then provoking the people who hate you into fights at the bar so you can execute them too with impunity. ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Made a Powder Keg deck, drafted as few cards as possible, and then just repeatedly created and duplicated and destroyed Powder Kegs. Also had the Graft that heals you for your starting hand's cost (though it nearly killed me since it damages you for your starting hand's cost prior to its upgrade), so the blowback from destroying my Renown didn't hurt. Wanna try something similar but with Hot Air Balloons instead. This is also my favorite kind of negotiation deck by far, save for MAYBE machine-gun coin flipping or some of the absolutely Busted(TM) poo poo you can do with Influence on Sal. Destroying your own arguments as a deck archetype has so many interesting and fun synergies, though I haven't found very many grafts that elevate it from Good to Hilarious or even What The gently caress like some battle decks can get. Sab Sabbington fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jun 21, 2021 |
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Jun 21, 2021 20:21
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Smith final boss spoilers: I was joking with my friend that it was refreshing playing a scifi RPG where you're not saving the galaxy from an ancient evil or whatever. He said, "uh, about that". Figured he was joking until I beat Space Fish Satan's avatar over the head with broken bottles until it fled.
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Jun 21, 2021 20:59
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One of my favorite decks started out really clunky (this is when I didn't know Rook had access to a card remover), but I knew a free wheel of fortune (MTG card where you dump your hand and draw seven) was a powerful effect, and I had picked up two. Then I found the graft that deals damage per card discarded, and for overkill, also the graft that draws you a card whenever you discarded a card. Plus the draw 4 discard 4 at start to help me find the wheels. It didn't matter that a lot of my deck wasn't great. It was hard not to win on the first turn. E:the card is Disregard, and I also had a few damage on discard cards E2:looks like there isn't a graft that lets you draw whenever you discard a card. Maybe it was a loved relationship perk. Run history doesn't show those afaik. E3:got it, it was momentum 
Rinkles fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jun 22, 2021 |
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Jun 22, 2021 00:20
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Razakai posted:Smith final boss spoilers: I thought it was super funny because you go from a violent drunk plotting to murder his siblings so he can get his inheritance to saving the world from some primal mind-controlling parasitic god-goop that has taken control of your brother. Extra funny because I ended up saving / sparing all my siblings in my first playthrough because Smith's flashback made me reconsider killing the younger brother.
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Jun 22, 2021 03:35
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can you modify rook's charge chamber count in brawl?
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Jun 22, 2021 09:44
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Won my very first game! Wasn't that hard, had a good Influence engine that ditched all agro cards for Negotiation and a million free strike + heavy card cycling for Murder. Lost maybe 10 hp to the final boss. I think my experience with StS and Monster Train set me up for a quick pick up of this game, despite being quite poo poo at both of those.
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Jun 23, 2021 02:18
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Smith's guide to picking stuff up on the street: SANDWICH - yes! (don't eat it and you can get a bunch of money or make a friend) DAGGER - HESH NO (cornered by 3 50-health spree revvers. On day 2. what the hesh)
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Jun 23, 2021 06:06
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Won Prestige 3 with Sal. Usually when you think a deckbuilder game relies on luck too much it's a sign of you not getting the game. But I'm starting to think that in the case of Griftlands it's true, at least with Sal. It quickly becomes apparent that with Sal you don't have many ways to build your decks. Negotiations are either about diplomacy or hostility, and this choice is closely connected to your quest choices and specific negotiations. So I think the choice is good, but it's just 2 ways to go. And in case of combat, you have Combo and Bleed. Bleed just doesn't work on some types of enemies. It's a bigger problem in Brawl where the final boss can be immune to bleed, but in normal mode, you meet plenty of robots too, and the final boss can summon them. So really Combo is the way. There are many cards that suit both strategies or spice up them in some way (e.g. you can have some cards giving bonuses on Expend in Negotiations or Improvise in combat). But it still feels you're building the same deck. I've failed Prestige 3 several times, and it's not that harder than Prestige 2, but something just didn't work for me. Another thing is Normal mode relies on you knowing the quests and characters. The game only tells you that this specific NPC will ruin your deck (e.g. you can rely heavily on items and some characters make it so that using items hurts you) if you made them hate you already. I think the game would have benefited from some transparency here. Attitude change is also strange sometimes, e.g. you attack someone and the game tells you they will dislike you, but after you win they start to hate you, like they get another dislike after you spare their lives. I'll probably switch to other characters. Rook looks like a much more interesting character with a lot of variety and tactics. Sal's Combo and Bleed focus enforce specialization, but after 1 game as Rook I feel like he needs more diverse approach in combat, e.g. there's a place for Empty, Spend Charge, and Fully Charged effects in any deck.
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Jun 30, 2021 14:48
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Man, Negotiations are so fun. Just had a run like this. Powder Kegs with Turnabout are just kind of unfair. Yeah, I'll do 12 damage and put a 6 shield on everything. No, that's not a flourish, it's a 0-cost regular card. (Okay, Pale Turnabout is an upgraded regular card, but even so.)
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Jul 8, 2021 16:48
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ilitarist posted:Won Prestige 3 with Sal. The game does persist knowledge of boons and banes from run to run. The characters are a static cast and they'll always have the same rewards, and if you take it to the face once, you'll always know (by clicking on their portrait). You can also guess from the shape, though that's not as reliable. Buying combat items from Fssh is a good way to give Sal a leg up in her early combats, so if you get into a fight after talking all day she can get XP on her cards and get some battle draws. It's a bit unconventional, but Sal's definitely also got discard as a combat mechanic, in addition to bleed and combo. Especially as compared to Rook and Smith, she gets a lot of cards that discard and have effects on discard. Her basic stabs upgrade to have a discard effect, that's how you can tell. I definitely feel like I got some luck to break my way in the last run to clear prestige 2, but I put a lot out into the world. Was it lucky that two people who liked me were negotiation opponents on day 5? Yeah, but I had 15 people who liked me because I shared a lot of drinks in the evening. Was it lucky that I pulled the flex trick on Kashio by getting some temporary power boons and drawing a debuff remover in the opening hand, leaving me 4 power up permanently? Yeah, but I wasn't relying on it and I put some debuff shed on my defenses for that and other purposes. I imagine Sal's prestige 3 isn't going to be a big bump from 2 since most days you can just heal up with Fssh for cheap.
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Jul 10, 2021 20:18
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Glazius posted:I imagine Sal's prestige 3 isn't going to be a big bump from 2 since most days you can just heal up with Fssh for cheap. It doesn't make much of a difference unless you're having a particularly bad run, ime.
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Jul 10, 2021 20:25
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Glazius posted:The game does persist knowledge of boons and banes from run to run. The characters are a static cast and they'll always have the same rewards, and if you take it to the face once, you'll always know (by clicking on their portrait). You can also guess from the shape, though that's not as reliable. I'm on Prestige 4 and I still don't know most people's banes and boons. And guessing the Pokemon from the shadow doesn't help. I really don't see the point of hiding this information, it turns interesting choices into gamble. True, Sal has Discard but it's a side-thing. There aren't many cards that deal damage by discard. You still need some proper attacks and those would probably be combo (or bleed if you want to die from a robot).
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Jul 11, 2021 06:06
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Sal also has Power. There is a bunch of ways to get it in her card pool. You can convert any source of temp Power with upgraded basic defenses that remove debuffs and you get it from one of the random choices from one of the basics. There is uncommon Uppercut that is incredible and a couple of abilities that also power up. It's a lot like StS in a way that you don't really commit to an archetype and it's absolutely reasonable to get some Bleed and some Combo and some multiattacks and yaddayaddayadda.
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Jul 11, 2021 07:04
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I've found discard to be Sal's strongest/most consistent archetype Try something like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/griftlands/comments/hkrusf/sal_discard_battle_deck_guide/ Discard has both early damage cards that fit into the archetype (bedlam, reckless swing, duster, even a couple stab upgrades) and lategame scaling damage cards (kradeshi barbstorm, windup, efficient disposal). On top of that you've got free defense and even healing from into the night/seeker. It's got incredible turn-to-turn consistency via sifting and even becomes draw-positive around the midgame (as most discard cards upgrade to draw+discard and kradeshi barbstorm or windup negates the actual discarding). And it's got that great property that there's no single card/graft required for the build to work, just a critical mass of some commons/uncommons. I'd say that unlike Slay the Spire (where the player needs to think more in terms of things like burst/ramp/crowd control than archetypes), Griftlands really wants the player to pick an archetype and play solitaire, as there's less interaction with enemies and you need a very focused, synergistic deck to overcome the lategame.
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Jul 11, 2021 12:25
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I just won p3 with Sal, with a handily overpowered red deck (the double damage card is fantastic, and I got early access to the card that gives you 3 scaling arguments), and a bleed combat deck that never really hit its stride and left me almost losing in the final combat.
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Jul 11, 2021 23:59
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Rook P2 down. Pretty fun build, with a snails/discard negotiation deck - man, that thing really needs the Tyrant Coin to come online - and a mostly empty battle deck, with 2 extra chambers, some Lucky Shot and Cheap Shot, a +2 damage on empty cells graft, and a 2 random Wound on last charge graft. The end boss was up to 20 Wound by the time it finally went down.
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Jul 14, 2021 01:49
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I am up to Prestige 3 Sal and Kashio keeps killing me. I like the auto train pet, 2 pets and extra use perks. Game seems fun, I am going to try to provoke more enemies at bars for their weapons.
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Jul 14, 2021 04:31
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Remember that you can steal at least 2 of Kashio's uber items during the auction. More with some clever mass attack in negotiation. Holographic projector is evil incarnate so you have to always get that just for her to not get it.
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Jul 14, 2021 06:12
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I'll say there is one thing that irks me a tiny bit in Sals story. There is a bunch of doublecrosses and branches in the last part but gameplaywise it is strictly better to just go all in on your chosen path cause you just take a free power up from Kashio for being straight. Like there is not even a significant change in ending slides or some kind of point bonus for making things harder on yourself. Rooks and Smiths story feels a bit better even if the actual "choice" feels a bit more meaningless in the end.
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Jul 14, 2021 06:28
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Agree. I admire the desire to make a mini-RPG that is also a hardcore every-click-counts deck builder, but the internal contradiction is clear. The game treats story mode as the main attraction and if you switch to Brawl you crawl a different ladder. Story mode has some interesting mechanics from time to time, I still get new events I haven't seen. In general it feels like you play a more complex game manipulating the outcomes of various quests and encounters. It also means that there are some clearly inferior paths and a lot depends on available encounters. Like in a final day if you go with Two-face you have to beat Admiralty guards before going to auction. I think they're random and sometimes they can be a deadly combo. Plus you not being able to take mercenaries on the last day makes party-focused abilities less attractive. Also you get access to additional vendors in a seemingly random manner: you can only visit many merchants if someone wants to give you a quest in their shop. Merchants are always there, you just can't visit them. Brawl seems to be less arbitrary in that regard, mercenaries are more available and you can often choose your fights. Brawl also lacks some features - I understand you have no access to Mettle shop in Brawl and, say, can't upgrade Rook's guns. I've just said that Brawl is less arbitrary, but it has more possibilities and sometimes it means a wilder balance: I've talked about how Sal's bleed feels inferior to me because robotic/armored enemies just ignore it. At least in the story mode no major boss is robotic and you can make sure Kashio won't summon a robot. In Brawl you can get a robot final boss.
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Jul 14, 2021 08:33
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ilitarist posted:Agree. I admire the desire to make a mini-RPG that is also a hardcore every-click-counts deck builder, but the internal contradiction is clear. The game treats story mode as the main attraction and if you switch to Brawl you crawl a different ladder. Story mode has some interesting mechanics from time to time, I still get new events I haven't seen. In general it feels like you play a more complex game manipulating the outcomes of various quests and encounters. It also means that there are some clearly inferior paths and a lot depends on available encounters. Like in a final day if you go with Two-face you have to beat Admiralty guards before going to auction. I think they're random and sometimes they can be a deadly combo. Plus you not being able to take mercenaries on the last day makes party-focused abilities less attractive. Also you get access to additional vendors in a seemingly random manner: you can only visit many merchants if someone wants to give you a quest in their shop. Merchants are always there, you just can't visit them. Brawl seems to be less arbitrary in that regard, mercenaries are more available and you can often choose your fights. You can't rechamber Rook's pistols in Brawl, but the Mettle shop does show up nearer to the end of each day, for everybody. Brawl is a pretty different game, mostly because you can hire people to help you with the end bosses. It really changes Smith's end boss. Pretty sure all the end bosses are constant in Brawl. Smith's end boss is built at least in part to screw Smith over, it'd be weird if they showed up in a different Brawl, but I've only played one apiece so far; maybe I just got lucky. I do agree there's not a lot in Sal's story if you try and betray people, but Sal isn't much for skullduggery like Rook and she isn't as impulsive as Smith, so it kind of makes sense? But I had kind of a different experience with Sal and Nadan on the final day. I went out to confront the Admiralty and it was a drinking buddy of mine, so I was able to talk her away by convincing her I was on the trail of the butcher of Murder Bay (somebody actually called him that!) and things were about to get messy. Haven't played enough to say whether that always happens or if I just got lucky with making friends at the Grog 'n Dog. Glazius fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Jul 15, 2021 |
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Jul 15, 2021 05:42
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Oh yeah, the final boss is the same, randomized daily bosses are the problem. And I don't think you can influence Kashio abilities the same way?..
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Jul 15, 2021 06:57
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this game received less fanfare than i was expecting
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Jul 15, 2021 07:48
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ilitarist posted:Oh yeah, the final boss is the same, randomized daily bosses are the problem. And I don't think you can influence Kashio abilities the same way?.. As far as robosses go, it's just Bossbit and 999, right? There's a bunch more cybered up people but I don't think they count as metallic. I guess Jeol gets robo-help, but in his case even if you could bleed out the drones you'd be more likely to destabilize them. You don't get to shut down two of Kashio's abilities of your choice in Brawl, but she does still show up with two of them shut down.
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Jul 15, 2021 14:49
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Some armored people who are definitely not robots count as metallic. Anyway you know what I mean, you plan your Sal story game around knowing which abilities you want allow Kashio to have, you are guaranteed to have 1 merchant who likes you and 1 who dislikes you, you never get a chance yo get a mercenary on the first or last day, youcll never meet certain NPCs and so on and so on. Anyway, it's weird. Both of those modes feel like inconplete versions of a game, each with their own unique limitations and possibilities. Whichever I play I don't feel like I'm playing the "main" mode.Rinkles posted:this game received less fanfare than i was expecting I guess devs failed to explain that this game is not just one more Slay the Spire clone. There are a lot of those nowadays.
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Jul 15, 2021 17:00
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I mean it is still fundamentally an StS “clone”, but that doesn’t preclude it from being pretty great.
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Jul 15, 2021 21:16
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I haven't really played a Sal discard deck yet, any tips?
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Jul 16, 2021 01:23
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Captain Foo posted:I haven't really played a Sal discard deck yet, any tips? Just get cards that do discard, or trigger on discard? It's not really more complicated than that. Trigger on discard is a bit rarer, so grab those for preference. Build a little bleed or combo to go alongside them, since your daggers will be leaning you that way.
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Jul 16, 2021 03:50
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discard cards are also just generically pretty good cause a lot of bosses will shuffle crap in your deck. it only gets awkward when your last cards all require discard, but pretty often you'll have more cards than actions anyway (if not, try looking for free draw effects). most of my sal combat decks end up combo discard.
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Jul 16, 2021 05:15
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Rinkles posted:I mean it is still fundamentally an StS “clone”, but that doesn’t preclude it from being pretty great. It's StS clone in the same sense as Fallout New Vegas is Call of Duty clone. The story mode is full of choices and consequences making it a unique and impressive take on the RPG genre in general.
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Jul 16, 2021 06:37
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that seems like an absurd comparison to me, but the story mode was mostly flavor to me (though i do prefer it to brawl unless i want something quick).
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Jul 16, 2021 06:43
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I really do mean that. Random characters are given all kinds of roles and are i volved in a variety of quests. I rarely see a proper RPG that makes the choices as interesting as Griftlands systemic approach makes them. Here persuasion will bring better rewards but the guy hates me because of past events so persuasion would be harder and I'd like to kill him to get rid of the bane. I kill him and now his friend hates me, and his bane makes his faction to be more effective against me in the future, which makes later faction choice much more interesting. Even within the same adventure module this game generates interesting choices all the time, putting to shame all those major RPGs and their trolley problems. There are so many connections and variabilities. A shame so much stuff is obscured.
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Jul 16, 2021 07:22
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i mean it is all very cool, and a big part of the game, but to me that's secondary to the card games, which are essentially variations on StS. and i don't necessarily mean that as a negative. i thought more people would be interested in a new, well produced, take on the formula.
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Jul 16, 2021 07:29
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Rinkles posted:discard cards are also just generically pretty good cause a lot of bosses will shuffle crap in your deck. it only gets awkward when your last cards all require discard, but pretty often you'll have more cards than actions anyway (if not, try looking for free draw effects). I ended up with 14 actions and one card left in my hand on the negotiating side yesterday
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Jul 16, 2021 15:26
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Well yeah you can do crazy (fun) stuff in negotiation. I don’t remember, but I don’t think Sal has a discard theme in negotiation.
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Jul 16, 2021 20:43
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Rook has a sticky 0 cost discard that can be upgraded to draw 1 and discard 1, or discard 2. There's also deal 3 damage to a random argument on discard card. There are other ones, but this combination gives a nice and easy damage source, especially when combined with effects that work kn every card play.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:31
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I had a deck built around that grift, with a couple copies of the discard your hand draw seven and the card that let's you draw card when you discard a card. basically a turn 1 kill every time.
Rinkles fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Jul 16, 2021 |
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Jul 16, 2021 23:36
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