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I figured out what the deal with Rhea, Seteh, and Flayn were immediately based on the opening cutscene, how Flayn spoke after her first cutscene, and them all looking like Tiki lol Real subtle guys, nailed it
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Aug 9, 2019 21:25
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Eimi posted:She compliments his poem and thinks it applies to her situation. I don't know if that is flirting? He clearly doesn't want to talk about the poem or any of his feelings but Manuela keeps on pressing him on it on the basis of it making him more attractive. Call it what you want but it made me feel uncomfortable
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Aug 9, 2019 21:40
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Replaying the game and after the Remire Village fight against Solon and the Death Knight, the Flame Emperor asks you to join her saying that Solon is doing bad poo poo and together you two could defeat him with the Sword of Creation, and yet in the Edelgard route you never once fight Those That Slither. I've said it many times that fighting the church is totally fine and makes sense, but they don't even try to give you the same emotional investment against Rhea as they do Solon and the uncle guy.
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Aug 9, 2019 21:43
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:Replaying the game and after the Remire Village fight against Solon and the Death Knight, the Flame Emperor asks you to join her saying that Solon is doing bad poo poo and together you two could defeat him with the Sword of Creation, and yet in the Edelgard route you never once fight Those That Slither. I mean, she did experiment on you/your mother and try to get you bodyjacked by sothis which only didn't work because Sothis didn't really want to come back anyways. Her whole deal was to manipulate you into basically dying And press ganged you and your father into/back into service Valleyant fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Aug 9, 2019 |
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Aug 9, 2019 21:55
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Does the game ever mention whether Rhea has reincarnated into a new body ala Byleth, Flayn, and presumably Seteth? I know it's a recurring thing in FE that Dragons go crazy if they go too long without assuming a human form, and I'm wondering if the whole dying/reincarnating thing serves the same purpose. It would feel thematically appropriate for Rhea to be losing her mind because she's refused to reincarnate due to attachment to her current life and mother.
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Aug 9, 2019 21:56
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PsychoInternetHawk posted:Does the game ever mention whether Rhea has reincarnated into a new body ala Byleth, Flayn, and presumably Seteth? I know it's a recurring thing in FE that Dragons go crazy if they go too long without assuming a human form, and I'm wondering if the whole dying/reincarnating thing serves the same purpose. It would feel thematically appropriate for Rhea to be losing her mind because she's refused to reincarnate due to attachment to her current life and mother. Apparently, Church route Can have you seperate Rhea from Seiros if you go S rank with Rhea. I think you also kill Seiros there. From what I heart, Rhea is to Seiros what Byleth is to Sothis, except Seiros ASSUMES DIRECT CONTROL while Sothis is a nice goddess
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Aug 9, 2019 22:08
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Valleyant posted:I mean, she did experiment on you/your mother and try to get you bodyjacked by sothis which only didn't work because Sothis didn't really want to come back anyways. Her whole deal was to manipulate you into basically dying Game never says this in the Black Eagle route. Never even comes a little bit close. Jeralt tells you Rhea did "something" to you at birth at the request of your mom to save you, which I would have assumed was put Sothis's spirit into you. Edel's hatred for Rhea has nothing to do with you and she is literally clueless as to your whole possession situation, which is made clear at the end of the game when she checks you for a heartbeat, never having known you didn't have one. All of that information is learned from other routes, which would be fine if you were required to see those other routes first. But, as it stands, if you were to do Edel's route first like I and a lot of other people did, all of the churches actual evil deeds are never revealed to you and all you have to go on is that Rhea is "kind of suspicious" and Edel wants her dead because she's a dragon and not a human Arkeus posted:Apparently, Church route Can have you seperate Rhea from Seiros if you go S rank with Rhea. I think you also kill Seiros there. From what I heart, Rhea is to Seiros what Byleth is to Sothis, except Seiros ASSUMES DIRECT CONTROL while Sothis is a nice goddess This is the spoiler thread go ham
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Aug 9, 2019 22:09
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I mean you can infer she wants you to get possessed when she takes you to the Holy Tomb and is mad that nothing happens. The Church is still insanely bloodthirsty from the get go, you get the sense that that they are not in the right. You see when Miklan uses the weapon something is up with the crest and weapon system. I'm pretty sure it's then directly said from there that the Church implanted crests into people and uses them and weapons to control the nobility. Now that's not 100% right, but it's a valid perspective to take from the information you have.
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Aug 9, 2019 22:16
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Eimi posted:I mean you can infer she wants you to get possessed when she takes you to the Holy Tomb and is mad that nothing happens. The Church is still insanely bloodthirsty from the get go, you get the sense that that they are not in the right. You see when Miklan uses the weapon something is up with the crest and weapon system. I'm pretty sure it's then directly said from there that the Church implanted crests into people and uses them and weapons to control the nobility. Now that's not 100% right, but it's a valid perspective to take from the information you have. Yeah and all the "welllll you can kind of infer that the church is maaaaaaaybe bad" is both nowhere near as interesting as the truth of the church history, and is also way flimsier than the threat of Those That Slither which is directly shown to you, constantly, and has the most significant emotional impact of both Byleth and Edel.
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Aug 9, 2019 22:20
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Valleyant posted:I mean, she did experiment on you/your mother and try to get you bodyjacked by sothis which only didn't work because Sothis didn't really want to come back anyways. Her whole deal was to manipulate you into basically dying That's not how that happened actually. She only ever gave you the crest at your mothers request. While her experiments have been focused on trying to revive Sothis, it wasn't as outright malicious as the intent seems to be. Arkeus posted:Apparently, Church route Can have you seperate Rhea from Seiros if you go S rank with Rhea. I think you also kill Seiros there. From what I heart, Rhea is to Seiros what Byleth is to Sothis, except Seiros ASSUMES DIRECT CONTROL while Sothis is a nice goddess Basically, yes. Seiros is still the final boss on the Church route, because surprise she IS insane, half in the way Manaketes usually go insane but more in the PTSD/Grief way where the loss of almost everyone she's ever loved and also her mother has clearly sent her off the deep end. In all non-Edelgard routes, Rhea/Seiros basically accept death and pass on IIRC. I believe she outright sacrifices herself in the Deer route, and I think peacefully dies in Blue Lions. https://twitter.com/SerenesForest/status/1159935914967207937 Onmi fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Aug 9, 2019 |
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Aug 9, 2019 22:33
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:Yeah and all the "welllll you can kind of infer that the church is maaaaaaaybe bad" is both nowhere near as interesting as the truth of the church history, and is also way flimsier than the threat of Those That Slither which is directly shown to you, constantly, and has the most significant emotional impact of both Byleth and Edel. No arguments that a fully polished Edie route would be the best thing and that it's clearly rushed as hell. Sadly.
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Aug 9, 2019 22:41
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:Replaying the game and after the Remire Village fight against Solon and the Death Knight, the Flame Emperor asks you to join her saying that Solon is doing bad poo poo and together you two could defeat him with the Sword of Creation, and yet in the Edelgard route you never once fight Those That Slither. Solon shows up in two chapters is extremely generic and then dies. Like, I get caring about Jeralt's death because being sad Dad died is one of the few characteristics Byleth has so it comes off as pretty meaningful but I still find it really hard to get emotionally invested in the Slithers. Like in a game of cool fleshed out characters the Slithers aren't too interesting. Rhea is kinda weak as well but at least she has the killer aesthetic of being the gay Evil Dragon Pope who can teach you to be better at punching.
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Aug 9, 2019 22:42
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It may have helped if we saw Original Monica or... uh, I forget his name. Terus? The monk looking guy before they got replaced. Instead they were replaced since their first actual appearance. Also Edel's uncle is the Silther King, we don't see him until you kill him on the Church route. I'll admit part of the reason why I sided with the Church also kind of involved the Timeskip in general. With Edel you get a Black screen, someone yells 'watch out for the rocks!', timeskip. With the Church you get an actual cinema scene where Byleth gets thrown into a ravine and buried under rocks, timeskip.
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Aug 10, 2019 00:12
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I don't think there was an original Monica or Teras. the Idea the slither's always gave me was that they have public identities and otherwise live through them. And yeah, Edel very much feels, not just 'unfinished' but also like... "Clearly alternate route" designed.
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Aug 10, 2019 00:38
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nah it was totes bodyjacking on re:monica and tomas
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Aug 10, 2019 00:57
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Bodyjacking or stealing the appearance of. Kronya says how happy she is to shed that disguise or skin, something to that effect. On another note, I watched through all the gay romances and their straight counterparts....and it makes me sad to say they are the same. In some cases this is a strength, like for El, at least she doesn't suddenly become flush with emotion for Boyleth, but it really rubs in how dumb it is that not everyone is bi, if they are just going to reuse the romance conversation.
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Aug 10, 2019 01:03
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Eimi posted:Bodyjacking or stealing the appearance of. Kronya says how happy she is to shed that disguise or skin, something to that effect. Keep in mind this might not have been the case in Japanese, it wouldn't be the first time where they've thrown out unique supports for "the same with both genders" when localized.
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Aug 10, 2019 01:14
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It just shows that Byleth is a pretty weak character tbh.
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Aug 10, 2019 01:14
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I don't mind Byleth being an emotionless zombie robot, since that's basically how everyone reacts to you anyway, but shipping him/her with anyone else felt really odd to me. I'd have prefer it if they'd gone harder on the emotionless zombie robot thing.
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Aug 10, 2019 01:39
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I was annoyed when characters kept saying "Yeah gently caress Monica" when that was an identity stolen from a student who was kidnapped and murdered Show the victim a little respect jfc
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Aug 10, 2019 01:48
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Flame is less The World and more Bites The Dust.
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Aug 10, 2019 01:53
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Clarste posted:I don't mind Byleth being an emotionless zombie robot, since that's basically how everyone reacts to you anyway, but shipping him/her with anyone else felt really odd to me. I'd have prefer it if they'd gone harder on the emotionless zombie robot thing. Yeah that's about my thoughts on it. I ended up liking Byleth more than I thought I would, they have just enough character traits that mesh with the whole player avatar deal that they're able to feel like a real character while still staying consistent with being the silent protagonist. But a lot of their A supports don't fully hit for me because they try to sell that Byleth has a close personal relationship with these characters and I don't think it really comes across that way. Anyway, i'm glad there's the one non-romantic S support since i'm not that into Byleth's romances.
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Aug 10, 2019 02:01
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Considering the sheer size of the hole in the sword of the creator, how the hell did Rhea stick the stone in your chest? There is not a lot of ribcage space in a newborn. Did she just schlorp it in there and hand you over to a very confused and concerned geralt
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Aug 10, 2019 02:09
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Valleyant posted:Considering the sheer size of the hole in the sword of the creator, how the hell did Rhea stick the stone in your chest? There is not a lot of ribcage space in a newborn. You get see exactly how big the crest stone is relative to your adult heart in Edelgard's ending CG at least.
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Aug 10, 2019 02:21
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I think in the Blue Lions route it's implied that the uncle guy died and was replaced, as opposed to him always having been evil. He was donating to the church for a long time until it suddenly stopped, and Sothis says "oh that guy must have died" and then you see him later. Same with Tomas, the implication is that he was killed and replaced during his trip back home. So, yeah, they're all evil people disguising themselves as someone else, so Monica and Tomas and the Duke were all real, not-evil people before being killed off and impersonated.
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Aug 10, 2019 03:11
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I'm glad we don't have to kill Saint Indech in Leonie and Linhardt's Paralogue. Does Macuil get to live in Claude's as well?
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Aug 10, 2019 05:47
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Skippy McPants posted:I'm glad we don't have to kill Saint Indech in Leonie and Linhardt's Paralogue. Does Macuil get to live in Claude's as well? Yes. He just falls asleep after the battle and Claude is annoyed they couldn't question him.
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Aug 10, 2019 06:01
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Cool. All of the other manaketes doing their best to be enigmatic while Flyan keeps constantly giving up the game is one of my favorite things.
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Aug 10, 2019 06:03
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I wonder if they are true manaketes since they don't seem to be weaker in human form, and that's a big thing for them iirc.
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Aug 10, 2019 06:14
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I'd heard the Death Knight's true identity was only revealed in an obscure paralogue but Seteth and Mercedes both outright stated "Oh yeah the Death Knight is totally Professor Jeritza" after I finished the tomb rescue mission with the Golden Deer, I don't remember hearing them say that on the BE route.
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Aug 10, 2019 06:25
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Judge Tesla posted:I'd heard the Death Knight's true identity was only revealed in an obscure paralogue but Seteth and Mercedes both outright stated "Oh yeah the Death Knight is totally Professor Jeritza" after I finished the tomb rescue mission with the Golden Deer, I don't remember hearing them say that on the BE route. They did say that in the BE route, I remember it. What people are talking about with the paralogue reveal is revealing who Jeritza is, and why he's the Death Knight. More or less.
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Aug 10, 2019 06:32
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Yeah technically that Paralogue doesn't even say Jeritza is the Death Knight. It says the Death Knight is Mercedes' younger brother. It's just very clear that's who Jeritza is. The game is kinda funny about the Death Knights identity. Everyone assumes it's Jeritza because he's the one Manuela goes to confront about being the Death Knight and then suddenly she is attacked and Jeritza disappears but there's no clear cut evidence for it. It's so obviously implied though that it almost comes off like misdirection and surely the Death Knight has to be someone else.
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Aug 10, 2019 06:40
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If you do the paralogue before a certain plot scene in Golden Deers route, the characters openly discuss the Death Knight being Emile and also Jeritza, as if everyone already knew that.
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Aug 10, 2019 06:43
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Eimi posted:I wonder if they are true manaketes since they don't seem to be weaker in human form, and that's a big thing for them iirc. Depends on the setting. Remember that 'Manakete' is actually a super loose term, like... Xane is a manakete, and Xane can transform into anyone they want to. Both of the Valentian Gods are Manaketes (Actually, shortcut, Almost every god in this setting is a manakete of some sort, I think literally the only ones that aren't are Elibe, which has a generic monothesis religion that Elimine serves as the patron saint of, and Magvel which doesn't even bother going into it... Oh gently caress and obviously Tellius, where the Godesses aren't Manaketes.) Like... Elibe Manaketes follow the rules of "Need to assume the weakest form due to the way Divine Weapons screwed up Elibe's nature." Like... Manaketes just have to assume a human shape, they aren't actually limited in growing stronger in their human form. Most don't, because... they can turn into big, gently caress-off dragons.
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Aug 10, 2019 07:36
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Continuing on from my point in the main thread about how... weird it would be for Edelgard to go after the Slithers, the only way it has any like... story importance, because it's otherwise not really important for her at all, is to essentially kinda ruin the route as it stands. Because it would have be like "Haha Edelgard, you brough the bullshit that the church was the source of the crests and these problems, when it was actually us, Those that Slither. How does it feel knowing you killed so many people only for it to have all been based on convenient half-truths?" And like... the whole point of Edelgard's story, is that... it doesn't really matter if the church isn't anywhere near as authoritarian as her ancestors passed on, and it doesn't matter if the lies told were more to spare humanity from the shame and Original Sin than it was to control them... because that's not really Edel's Schtick. She plans to beat the Slither's anyway, but... it's really anti-climactic after killing Seiros. That's her end goal, the purpose of her entire route. We've had games that just kinda didn't know where to end, and... yeah sometimes the campaign should just be shorter. I don't see a way to work in fighting the Slithers that either doesn't kill the emotional high or... doesn't work within the confines of the story. I'd also rather the DLC like... explore things that currently hold no answer. Hey where the gently caress did Dimitri and Edel's mother get off too? I don't recall ever fighting her, and she's kinda responsible for the rift between them as well as a huge like... drama that permeates the whole setting though mostly the blue lions. Or like... post-game campaigns of post-war difficulties? Like I would accept a slither's campaign for Edelgard that is "Edelgard has won, she's conquered the continent, and like... now we have the Slither's trying to exert control and when that failed spreading propaganda and causing another civil war." Like a "The hardships of ruling" mini-campaign.
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Aug 10, 2019 08:18
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I didn't really mind that Edelgard didn't have a big fight against the Slithers after bringing down Serios and the Church, I'd gotten the impression from both her and Hubert that taking them down too early would have fractured the Empire with how deeply entrenched Lord Arundel is in it, killing them offscreen seemed fitting honestly.
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Aug 10, 2019 10:23
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Judge Tesla posted:I didn't really mind that Edelgard didn't have a big fight against the Slithers after bringing down Serios and the Church, I'd gotten the impression from both her and Hubert that taking them down too early would have fractured the Empire with how deeply entrenched Lord Arundel is in it, killing them offscreen seemed fitting honestly. It also sounded like Hubert was going to handle things in a "The poor man fell down the stairs. Onto some knives. That were covered in poison. Such a tragedy." fashion.
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Aug 10, 2019 10:36
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Huh... Edelgard in her own route attacks Arianhod in secret chapter 16 because she wants to weaken those who slithers before killing Rhea. She doesn't need to 'realize' she needs to kill them, she had already begun to incorporate her troops movements to put them in a position where she can turn against them post Rhea.
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Aug 10, 2019 11:45
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Arkeus posted:Huh... Edelgard in her own route attacks Arianhod in secret chapter 16 because she wants to weaken those who slithers before killing Rhea. She doesn't need to 'realize' she needs to kill them, she had already begun to incorporate her troops movements to put them in a position where she can turn against them post Rhea. Right but the thing is that... the story isn't about defeating Those that Slither. It's about defeating Rhea. Again it's the Scouring of the Shire. It sure bloody exists but... it's not all that important? Like... the story would just kinda putter out if those maps were there. And it would also kinda take away from Claude... because Claude's entire thing is actually finding the truth about Those that Slither, and that nobody else has actually been operating on the truth.
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Aug 10, 2019 13:04
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Onmi posted:Right but the thing is that... the story isn't about defeating Those that Slither. It's about defeating Rhea. Again it's the Scouring of the Shire. It sure bloody exists but... it's not all that important? Like... the story would just kinda putter out if those maps were there. And it would also kinda take away from Claude... because Claude's entire thing is actually finding the truth about Those that Slither, and that nobody else has actually been operating on the truth. I mean, it's drat bloody important to Edelgard. Those Who Slithers are a personal problem for Edelgard, and one she wants to get rid of. She just wants to focus first on the real foe, and then getting rid of those who slithers. There is a reason why on Golden Deer route you only find the information on Hubert's body and so on. It's because Eldegard is actually looking for that clean up more than Claude is, she is just already aware of most of that truth so doesn't need to go 'looking' for it as much. I don't think the story would putter at all if the 'war' is finished but the assassin maps would begin, myself. Now, the argument that "It would take away from Golden Deer route" I can sort of understand, but not putting them in Eldegard route too definitely take away from her route.
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Aug 10, 2019 13:22
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