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ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011




The game
Nintendo's Star Fox was a popular space shooter series with animal people, albeit with only two formally-released entries, by the time 2002 rolled around. Rare were a popular game developer who made many acclaimed and varied games with animal people for Nintendo by then, including Donkey Kong Country, Banjo-Kazooie, and Conker's Bad Fur Day. It seemed like a no-brainer that Rare developing a Star Fox game would make for something special. But that's not what happened.
For at least 5 years before then, Rare were instead developing their own IP: Dinosaur Planet, which would be their last hurrah with Nintendo due to the two companies slowly falling out. A Zelda-esque Action-Adventure game originally planned for the Nintendo 64, it would star two anthropomorphic fox characters: Sabre and Krystal. Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto saw the game in-development, noticed that Sabre looked like Fox McCloud from Star Fox, and suggested they retool the game to be a new entry in the Star Fox franchise.
After more development time, with Sabre being replaced with Fox and Krystal being replaced with a sexy lamp, Star Fox Adventures released at last in 2002 on the Gamecube to a resounding "...Oh. Okay."

While it's not a bad game and has plenty of fans and defenders, Adventures ended up a not-particularly-inspired Zelda clone that suffers from tedious gameplay, obnoxious characterization, and an absence of Falco. Rare would leave Nintendo and never reach their greatest heights again, Star Fox would sporadically saunter on and never reach its heights again, and Krystal would continue to exist only in relation to Fox until she was a casualty of the reboot bomb.

But how bad can Adventures be? Let's find out! FOOD!

The story is such:
Star Fox, the legendary space mercenaries, have been sitting on their asses without work since defeating Andross 8 years ago. At last, General Pepper gives them the job of saving Dinosaur Planet, literally just a planet inhabited by dinosaurs, that has broken into pieces which threaten the rest of the Lylat System. Fox must fly down to the planet's surface, recover the SpellStones that will bring the planet back together, and put up with a tiny triceratops that starts following him around.
But what about the whole 20 minutes you spend as Krystal in the beginning? She gets locked up and literally doesn't matter for the rest of the game except for the parts where Fox gets hot for her, I guess. A shockingly poo poo fate for the girl who was once the hero of the game.

The LP:
Mugiwara Yoshi takes the lead for a straightforward playthrough with no plans for completionism. He is a Star Fox fan who played the game only once ever. He will occasionally go into detail on ways the game was changed from Dinosaur Planet, but the focus is on Adventures as-is.
Myself (ThornBrain) and JigglyJacob join him as co-commentators - I also grew up a Star Fox fan and only played the game once ever; Jacob only recently discovered Star Fox and loves 64 and Assault.
Updates are every Friday.
See also: our Star Fox 64 LP, played by me as the start of our channel's Star Fox LP series. Probably necessary viewing for when we start talking about Falco.

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ThornBrain fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Nov 29, 2019

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Albu-quirky Guy
Nov 8, 2005

Still stuck in the Land of Entrapment

This is, unfortunately, one of those properties where the license overshadows everything. If Rare had been allowed to release Dinosaur Planet as is, it probably would have been a mediocre but entertaining game. As is, cramming Starfox and its associated reputation/experience into it just makes everything that much more disappointing.

BlazetheInferno
Jun 6, 2015


Alas, that bit about Krystal's Parents is indeed never mentioned anywhere outside of I think the manual, and that opening text. Part of why I dislike this game from a story perspective, and the decision to make it a Star Fox game. By shoving Krystal aside, she went from "potentially interesting action girl" to "Damsel in distress", never showing any actual personality outside of her current relationship status to Fox.

And yeah... the uhh, the voices... aren't great.

KeiraWalker
Sep 5, 2011

Me? Don't worry about me...

Grimey Drawer

Yeah, I really wish this game had been allowed to stand on its own merits instead of Shiggy making Rare shoe-horn Star Fox into it (this is far from the last bad decision Shiggy will make regarding Star Fox). I honestly enjoyed it and I would've liked to see Krystal not get such a raw deal.

Alas. Wish in one hand, poo poo in the other; see which fills up faster. At least it ought to make for an entertaining LP.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.


I did several playthroughs of this when it was fresh off the presses.

It took until like, the third before the flaws really started getting to me. But it's still a pretty ok game.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






This is a really poor attempt at being a Legend of Zelda game if you're actually able to play Zelda in it before her sudden but inevitable demotion from 'mobile' to 'captured'.

Also I've never played a Star Fox game at all and all of my ideas are terrible so I dunno what they could do for Krystal's personality better. Maybe she gets really into the Arwings and basically becomes less shrill Slippy? I dunno. They've got the calm leader, a hothead rival, the new recruit and the old man.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


RareAcumen posted:

They've got the calm leader, a hothead rival, the new recruit and the old man.
Surely there's pilot archetypes other than just those and the swathes of "definitely going to die" types



having a hell of a time trying to think of any, though









gently caress it, make her a Flashheart

DoubleNegative
Jan 27, 2010

The most virtuous child in the entire world.

This is a game that I have vague memories of playing once. Not actually beating, but playing it for a relatively decent chunk of time. But drat if I can remember anything about it.

So I'm pretty curious where this all goes!

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010



Soiled Meat

This game isn't horrible but it is horrifyingly mediocre (especially for a use of 1st-party IP), and I don't know which is worse. I mostly remember a couple of pretty cool setpieces and an extremely bullshit ending in terms of both story and gameplay, so have fun with those!

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






Fish Noise posted:

having a hell of a time trying to think of any, though

See, that's where I am all the time, I can easily play all these games but damned if I can actually come up with a character on my own.

Digamma-F-Wau
Mar 22, 2016

...puh-
puhroud..??


By god Slippy sounds like the cousin of the DKC cartoon version of Diddy.

rudecyrus
Nov 6, 2009

fuck you trolls



I played this game from start to finish several times and aside from the beginning and end, the rest of the game is a blur. Nothing stuck with me.

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

I LIKE TO MAKE VAGUE THREATS TO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE I AM TOUGH GUY. P.S. ASK ME ABOUT THE TIME A GIRL BEAT ME UP IN GRADE SCHOOL. HER NAME WAS SUZIE SHE DREW A BIG WEINER ON MY FOREHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The main thing I remember about Star Fox Adventures is that it had the dumbest item names ever.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Hwurmp posted:

The main thing I remember about Star Fox Adventures is that it had the dumbest item names ever.

Somehow I still remember "Bafomdad". I don't remember what that is or what it looks like but I sure remember its loving stupid name.

The best thing about this game is that it made Rare develop the engine which was used for Conker's Bad Fur Day, a game with much better gameplay and a (very dumb) sense of humour

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010

What is it with Japan and ridiculous hair colors?



Buglord

I can maybe remember a handful of scenes/setpieces/dungeons of this game despite knowing I 100%ed it to the point that Tricky wouldn't change color anymore when playing fetch.
Thanks for saving me the trouble of loading it up in Dolphin to see if it really was as bad as people say.

rudecyrus
Nov 6, 2009

fuck you trolls



Oh, and that loving jingle that plays every time you pick up a new item.

Procrastine
Mar 30, 2011




As someone who played this a lot as a young child with low standards, I find the differences between Dinosaur Planet and Star Fox Adventures fascinating. Almost everything I could say was either covered in the video or would be spoilers, so here's what I have left: Originally, you would use the key on the ship to open the cage on the deck. After removing the part where you open the cage, they left in you collecting the key so now you find the key to some random door instead? This is but the first of many things that made more sense in the original draft and end up being weird in the final product.

Soundtrack's good though. David Wise did a great job with this game.

BlazetheInferno
Jun 6, 2015


RabidWeasel posted:

Somehow I still remember "Bafomdad". I don't remember what that is or what it looks like but I sure remember its loving stupid name.

Honestly, I'd bet you remember that one in particular because of Jontron flipping out about that one when he did a video on this game. As for what it is, I'll wait and let the LP crew handle that once they find one.

OgretailFood
Oct 9, 2012

Recommended by 10 out of 10 Aragami



Oh this game, I still have this game yet I don't remember anything about it except the "item get" animation, that thing is forever seared into my brain.

ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011




Probably not a good thing in the long run for your LP to peak in part 2, but here we are.

Icedude
Mar 30, 2004



Fox's personality appears to be "fully aware he's in a reskin of a game he was never meant to be in"

BlazetheInferno
Jun 6, 2015


Honestly, Fox's personality in the next game is pretty consistent... with his 64 personality. As far as I know, this is the only time Fox is portrayed as this much of a jerk.

On the other hand, he's not used to this kind of adventure and questing crap. He's a fighter pilot, not a drat diplomat. As an aside, there was actually a comic put out that explains Falco's disappearance, called "Farewell Beloved Falco".

Albu-quirky Guy
Nov 8, 2005

Still stuck in the Land of Entrapment

The weird ragdolling when you're climbing a wall always makes me a little queasy.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






Wow, weird, so this is where all of Ratchet's edge went to. I thought he seemed weird in the 2016 remake.

edit: I'm so glad that you guys realized you have 8 years of time you can backfill with Falco antics to pass the LP with.

RareAcumen fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Aug 16, 2019

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010

What is it with Japan and ridiculous hair colors?



Buglord

The reason you need to press buy a second time is because you're in the highly advanced haggling mode first. Shopkeep gives you a default price, you can then press up* and down to change that price. What this boils down to is getting called a cheapskate 10 times before you find the number he's programmed to accept as lowest price.

E: *If I remember right, yes this means you can pay more than the original price if you are a huge idiot or something.

Chimera-gui
Mar 20, 2014


Icedude posted:

Fox's personality appears to be "fully aware he's in a reskin of a game he was never meant to be in"

Honestly Falco would've fit the role a lot better since not only is his personality closer to what Saber's would've been, the fact that birds are modern theropods means you could've had Falco not sure how to feel about having to smack around SharpClaws.

Procrastine
Mar 30, 2011




A recap of what the dino-speak plot point has brought us:
- The intro's voice acting was incomprehensible for no real benefit
- Fox presumably didn't understand anything Krystal said about the staff
- Fox getting mad at the queen and Slippy (in fairness, this scene's alright)
- The shopkeeper and the WarpStone speak English instead of dino-speak for some reason
- Fox gets mad at Tricky over "hot spring or you'd be frozen by now"
Originally in Dinosaur Plant, dino-speak wasn't a thing. It was introduced at some point after the switch to Star Fox, and I have no idea why they did it because it adds very little while making certain scenes make less sense.

Moving on to the combat: It's bad. I believe there's different combos you can do depending on what direction you hold the stick while attacking, but it doesn't make any difference which you use. The health bars are weird. They only display in quarter increments for some reason, leading to a lot of people believing that only the final hit of a combo deals damage (as you saw from the hitstun combo in the video, this isn't true). The blaster aiming is very awkward. The reticle is constantly trying to return to the default position instead of staying where you put it like in a better game (i.e. Zelda)

I like the aesthetics of the bomb spore plants, they're dope volcano ferns. The gameplay is, well, it's also bad. Ignoring the inconvenience of getting spores with the whole scattering mechanic, you can only plant spores in predefined spots, unlike in a better game, where you could use them when you want and use them in combat. (On the other hand, I wouldn't trust the level designers not to add arbitrary unmarked destructible walls if you could use bombs anywhere)

An "interesting" detail is that Tricky's model changes depending on how much he's been fed. You can see this around 26:30 in the video when he goes from 1 food to 5 food. Now you'll never not notice it whenever it happens.

Let's end on a positive note: One thing this game does have over Zelda is the ability to move blocks sideways as well as forward and back, so you can move them diagonally without needing to reposition yourself constantly.

Commander Keene
Dec 21, 2016

This avatar helped buy Lowtax a new back.



So my sisters were absolutely obsessed with The Land Before Time at one point, and the names of the dinosaurs here (SharpClaw, EarthWalker, SnowHorn, etc) sound so much like they belong there.

Doc M
Jan 6, 2011

I enjoy metal because of its dark, creepy, intense aesthetic.




Not being allowed to talk to NPCs at night and having to wait it out is... certainly a design decision. What in the gently caress were they thinking? Aside from "oh god we have to ship this poo poo in two weeks," I mean.

Procrastine
Mar 30, 2011




Doc M posted:

Not being allowed to talk to NPCs at night and having to wait it out is... certainly a design decision. What in the gently caress were they thinking? Aside from "oh god we have to ship this poo poo in two weeks," I mean.

This exact same problem appeared in Twilight Princess somehow, which is weird considering previous Zelda games figured out that having NPCs sensitive to time of day without giving the player the ability to change the time freely was a bad idea.

In hindsight, the smarter solution probably would have been to not have a time-of-day mechanic at all. No sleeping mammoths and possibly more dev time to work on other aspects of the game.

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010



Soiled Meat

Oh God so many memories are flooding back to me...

--How did I forget about those cackling flying enemies in Thorntail Hollow, I thought that laugh would be better burned into my memory by now.

--I don't think I ever did the Warp Stone's maze and I couldn't tell you why the game wants you to.

--That speedbike race suuuuuuuucks so thank you for cheesing it.

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

I LIKE TO MAKE VAGUE THREATS TO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE I AM TOUGH GUY. P.S. ASK ME ABOUT THE TIME A GIRL BEAT ME UP IN GRADE SCHOOL. HER NAME WAS SUZIE SHE DREW A BIG WEINER ON MY FOREHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"PukPuk DumbleDang GrubTub BafomDad," rise the chanting demons' voices in my head as I lift the axe

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



C-Euro posted:

--I don't think I ever did the Warp Stone's maze and I couldn't tell you why the game wants you to.

As far as I recall there's a well at the very end of it where you can exchange your cheat tokens (which as mentioned don't actually do anything useful). Otherwise I'm pretty sure there's no point in ever going down there.

Zain
Dec 6, 2009

It's only forever, not long at all


This game is a trainwreck and a half.

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010



Soiled Meat

Larryb posted:

As far as I recall there's a well at the very end of it where you can exchange your cheat tokens (which as mentioned don't actually do anything useful). Otherwise I'm pretty sure there's no point in ever going down there.

If the maze is how you cash out your cheat tokens then I definitely went down there, as I remember having the Sound Test unlocked in the main menu and that's supposedly a cheat token thing.

...it's probably a knock against the game that I did something and have zero recollection of it, right?

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010

What is it with Japan and ridiculous hair colors?



Buglord

C-Euro posted:

...it's probably a knock against the game that I did something and have zero recollection of it, right?

It either means the game's so unremarkable that your brain just didn't save those memories for the actual long term, or that you repressed the memories because they're so bad. It's probably mostly the former.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.


Procrastine posted:

This exact same problem appeared in Twilight Princess somehow, which is weird considering previous Zelda games figured out that having NPCs sensitive to time of day without giving the player the ability to change the time freely was a bad idea.

In hindsight, the smarter solution probably would have been to not have a time-of-day mechanic at all. No sleeping mammoths and possibly more dev time to work on other aspects of the game.

Day-Night cycles that were realistically implemented was a Thing back then. It wouldn't surprise me if it was done early and ported over from Dinosaur Planet or it was one of the last features added to the game to punch up it's back of the box blurb.

I have weird memories of always running into the Day-Night cycle problem with that one mammoth too. Probably because Tricky has to tell you everything and it's quite a walk down to where he is so it's almost by design that you have to waste time waiting for that mammoth to wake up in order to progress.

Kibayasu
Mar 28, 2010



While I'm not going to call Star Fox Adventures anywhere even as close to bad as Sonic Adventure but, like Sonic Adventure, Star Fox Adventures is a game where if someone says they liked it I'm baffled to the point where I start to think they're lying.

Miacis
Oct 9, 2012

Get off my lawn!!

I do really like a lot of the visual elements in this game. That was some really good looking fur, back then! That's... probably the only good thing I can say, though. Everything is either bad, wasted potential, or just kinda baffling, but at least the art team seemed to have a good time.

Also, the poster in the Great Fox that was briefly noticed in video 1:



It's a space furry pinup. "Foxy ladies", heh.

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Chimera-gui
Mar 20, 2014


Kibayasu posted:

While I'm not going to call Star Fox Adventures anywhere even as close to bad as Sonic Adventure but, like Sonic Adventure, Star Fox Adventures is a game where if someone says they liked it I'm baffled to the point where I start to think they're lying.

At least Sonic Adventure was charming in its incompetence and the title character is an A list platformer mascot.

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