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The North Tower
Aug 20, 2007

You should throw it in the ocean.

Arcsquad12 posted:

I know I'm overthinking things but I've always wondered what would actually happen if you put dinosaurs millions of years and eras apart into the same ecosystem like Jurassic Park does. Like what chance does a Jurassic Period sauropod have against a superpredator like a T Rex? There were giant sauropods in the Cretaceous but not many in the Rex's hunting range. Or in reverse how would an Allosaurus get along hunting Ceratopsids, like that Battle at Big Rock short film? The movies never really talk about how this artificial ecosystem would struggle from what are essentially dozens of invasive species all competing with each other. As a theme park that's fine, but in the wild on Isla Sorna or now the mainland I'd really like to see how the ecosystems adapt or fail to adapt to new species.

Life would find a way, friend.

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Elukka
Feb 18, 2011

For All Mankind

Arcsquad12 posted:

I know I'm overthinking things but I've always wondered what would actually happen if you put dinosaurs millions of years and eras apart into the same ecosystem like Jurassic Park does. Like what chance does a Jurassic Period sauropod have against a superpredator like a T Rex? There were giant sauropods in the Cretaceous but not many in the Rex's hunting range. Or in reverse how would an Allosaurus get along hunting Ceratopsids, like that Battle at Big Rock short film? The movies never really talk about how this artificial ecosystem would struggle from what are essentially dozens of invasive species all competing with each other. As a theme park that's fine, but in the wild on Isla Sorna or now the mainland I'd really like to see how the ecosystems adapt or fail to adapt to new species.
I've thought along similar lines and it's why I love this part from the Hammond memoirs from the Trespasser game (where they apparently just released them on Isla Sorna to see what would happen) where he talks about how the dinosaurs survived and got along, how the different predators carved their niches and territories and such.

"Not all the original species survived; in the end only a few adjusted to the new world. These became dominant."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDHUQdGnkGE&t=123s

Wicker Man
Sep 5, 2007

Just like Columbus...


Clapping Larry

Arcsquad12 posted:

I know I'm overthinking things but I've always wondered what would actually happen if you put dinosaurs millions of years and eras apart into the same ecosystem like Jurassic Park does. Like what chance does a Jurassic Period sauropod have against a superpredator like a T Rex? There were giant sauropods in the Cretaceous but not many in the Rex's hunting range. Or in reverse how would an Allosaurus get along hunting Ceratopsids, like that Battle at Big Rock short film? The movies never really talk about how this artificial ecosystem would struggle from what are essentially dozens of invasive species all competing with each other. As a theme park that's fine, but in the wild on Isla Sorna or now the mainland I'd really like to see how the ecosystems adapt or fail to adapt to new species.

Didn't they mention at some point in the books that our very air content in the world as it is now would give the dinosaurs a lot of problems since it's so drastically different from how it was in their natural time?

Of course if that wasn't an issue it would definitely be a kind of battle royal for just about every breed. Even the prey animals would run into issues with feeding on each other's vegetation.

JK Fresco
Jul 5, 2019
I wish more zoos would work like that. I want to see a gorilla fight a tiger

Jimbone Tallshanks
Dec 16, 2005

You can't pull rank on murder.

Also throw some prisoners in this open-concept zoo. Make sure man hasn't been coasting for the past few millennia, y'know?

Imagined
Feb 2, 2007
Any of you guys watch 'Genndy Tartakovsky's Primal' that started on Adult Swim last night?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4UN616BFDA

JIZZ DENOUEMENT
Oct 3, 2012

STRIKE!

Imagined posted:

Any of you guys watch 'Genndy Tartakovsky's Primal' that started on Adult Swim last night?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4UN616BFDA

This looks rad as heck

Imagined
Feb 2, 2007
Yeah I liked it. Obviously with a caveman fighting dinosaurs it's not going for historical or scientific accuracy, but it's gorgeous.

Robotnik Nudes
Jul 8, 2013

Imagined posted:

Yeah I liked it. Obviously with a caveman fighting dinosaurs it's not going for historical or scientific accuracy, but it's gorgeous.

Wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSDb7iBTg70

JIZZ DENOUEMENT
Oct 3, 2012

STRIKE!
I enjoyed reading this thread. Mildly interested in reading the book now.

Rolo
Nov 16, 2005

Hmm, what have we here?

JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:

I enjoyed reading this thread. Mildly interested in reading the book now.

The book is very good.

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:

"Why would the Chinese need a royal dragon feeder? To feed the dragon!" lol. Maybe the emperor just had a thing for large angry women? Duh.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

Imagined posted:

Any of you guys watch 'Genndy Tartakovsky's Primal' that started on Adult Swim last night?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4UN616BFDA

Saw the first four episodes in a movie theater for a premiere. It owns.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
I'm a ceratosaurus. I'm gonna walk up to the camera and smell your poo and then walk away with no questions asked.

JP3 is weird.

Boogoose
Oct 5, 2003

GIVE ME THE CASH !
Does anyone else think that in the first book, Grant is a massive dick towards Gennaro in the finale? Dude's risked his life about three times voluntarily, beat up a raptor, made it clear that he's only interested in the park as a going concern if its safe, and stopped the boat from docking at the mainland. As soon as he turns down going spelunking with raptors and nerve gas when an actual military has shown up, Grant tears him a new one. They never should have combined him with Regis for the film.

SilvergunSuperman
Aug 7, 2010

Oh yeah, he's a huge bully prick, and over the dumbest poo poo too.

It doesn't fit the character or the tone of the book, it really makes no goddamn sense.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

"We need to know the extent of the damage so we can fix it!"

Military tells Grant to sit down, shut up, and let them handle the poo poo that never happened that he can never speak of.

Necrothatcher
Mar 26, 2005




I like that the new JP universe status quo is regular US citizens being menaced by dinosaurs and there's absolutely nothing they can do about it other than cower and hide. A subtle but effective anti-gun control message.

ante
Apr 9, 2005

SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS
Yeah that whole raptor nest side story in the book is weird and dumb. None of it makes any sense whatsoever

Imagined
Feb 2, 2007
Do you think Crichton was trying to make a setpiece ala the nest in 'Aliens'?

Rolo
Nov 16, 2005

Hmm, what have we here?

ante posted:

Yeah that whole raptor nest side story in the book is weird and dumb. None of it makes any sense whatsoever

Yeah I remember getting to that and being like “uhh there’s like 15 pages left in the book what are they even doing?”

Then they didn’t really do anything and a helicopter came.

ante
Apr 9, 2005

SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS
They survived and turned everything on and called for help and then decided to sneak into a raptor nest because ?!? Where somehow they didn't immediately get spotted and murdered despite being like two feet away in a dark cave ?! And then a helicopter magically appeared and knew exactly where they were and just told them the fate of everyone

Crespolini
Mar 9, 2014

Boogoose posted:

Does anyone else think that in the first book, Grant is a massive dick towards Gennaro in the finale? Dude's risked his life about three times voluntarily, beat up a raptor, made it clear that he's only interested in the park as a going concern if its safe, and stopped the boat from docking at the mainland. As soon as he turns down going spelunking with raptors and nerve gas when an actual military has shown up, Grant tears him a new one. They never should have combined him with Regis for the film.

Yeah, it's a weird scene and makes Grant look like a prick

Beachcomber
May 21, 2007

Another day in paradise.


Slippery Tilde
How long does it take PTSD to manifest?

First of May
May 1, 2017
🎵 Bring your favorite lady, or at least your favorite lay! 🎵


I think the nest scene was to "humanize" the raptors a bit, leaving the reader seeing the raptors just as animals wanting to survive: raising babies, desire to migrate. We get to see them in a neutral light just before the firebombing so that we feel bad for them, they didn't ask for this, you're not my real dad!

Rolo
Nov 16, 2005

Hmm, what have we here?
“The cameras are back up! Look what these actually interesting raptors are doing!”

Camera goes dark as someone destroyed the nest by firebomb.

Deep thoughts.

sweet geek swag
Mar 29, 2006

Adjust lasers to FUN!





They go to the nest because the entire framing device of the story is that dinosaurs have escaped the island and they don't know how many. Grant wants to go to the nest so he can look at the egg fragments and try to determine how many raptors have hatched, so they can determine how many may have escaped the island. Remember, Grant was an paleontologist who excavated raptor nests, he is probably one of the only people on earth who could do this, but it is clearly in his skillset. And remember that after the Island is destroyed that the Costa Rican government has no idea if they have killed all the escaped dinosaurs. They just have to wait and see if there are more attacks/sightings. So Grant was right, and the Costa Rican's destroying the island made sure they would never grasp the full extent of the problem.

He was a dick to Gennaro though, there was no call to demand that a lawyer with no experience with wild animals join them in a raptor nest. Insert lawyer killing joke here.

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:

sweet geek swag posted:

They go to the nest because the entire framing device of the story is that dinosaurs have escaped the island and they don't know how many. Grant wants to go to the nest so he can look at the egg fragments and try to determine how many raptors have hatched, so they can determine how many may have escaped the island. Remember, Grant was an paleontologist who excavated raptor nests, he is probably one of the only people on earth who could do this, but it is clearly in his skillset. And remember that after the Island is destroyed that the Costa Rican government has no idea if they have killed all the escaped dinosaurs. They just have to wait and see if there are more attacks/sightings. So Grant was right, and the Costa Rican's destroying the island made sure they would never grasp the full extent of the problem.

He was a dick to Gennaro though, there was no call to demand that a lawyer with no experience with wild animals join them in a raptor nest. Insert lawyer killing joke here.

I'm pretty sure anyone who's made an omelet is qualified to count broken eggs.

sweet geek swag
Mar 29, 2006

Adjust lasers to FUN!





Outrail posted:

I'm pretty sure anyone who's made an omelet is qualified to count broken eggs.

I was responding to a criticism made much earlier in the thread that it wouldn't be possible reconstruct how many eggs hatched in the likely complicated nest environment.

SilvergunSuperman
Aug 7, 2010

It's still really loving stupid, especially the way the raptors are portrayed as metal gear solid guards.

purple death ray
Jul 28, 2007

me omw 2 steal ur girl

sweet geek swag posted:

I was responding to a criticism made much earlier in the thread that it wouldn't be possible reconstruct how many eggs hatched in the likely complicated nest environment.

It's riding on the assumption that raptors just leave their eggshells around for people to count and they're never stillborn or stolen by the compys or rival raptors or any of the numerous other predators that were also breeding

sweet geek swag
Mar 29, 2006

Adjust lasers to FUN!





SilvergunSuperman posted:

It's still really loving stupid, especially the way the raptors are portrayed as metal gear solid guards.

Well it had to be written that way. They took the loving lawyer along.

JK Fresco
Jul 5, 2019

purple death ray posted:

It's riding on the assumption that raptors just leave their eggshells around for people to count and they're never stillborn or stolen by the compys or rival raptors or any of the numerous other predators that were also breeding

You would build that into your model

you broke my grill
Jul 11, 2019

ante posted:

They survived and turned everything on and called for help and then decided to sneak into a raptor nest because ?!? Where somehow they didn't immediately get spotted and murdered despite being like two feet away in a dark cave ?! And then a helicopter magically appeared and knew exactly where they were and just told them the fate of everyone

they were spotted but the raptors ignored them because they didn't sense them as a threat

like the Borg

purple death ray
Jul 28, 2007

me omw 2 steal ur girl

you broke my grill posted:

they were spotted but the raptors ignored them because they didn't sense them as a threat

like the Borg

Love to spend hundreds of pages hyping up the raptors as unstoppable killing machines and then have them just sort of stand around and ignore the protagonists during the final scene of the book

Like they apparently kill for fun and here are some of the tasty dumb monkeys in their home poking at their babies and raptors just like "eh they're probably not hurting anything"

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

Well, for being such a big element of the plot the wild dinosaurs kind of don't exist. Outside of the compies in the intro and the Raptors on the boat, they literally never directly appear in the story until the raptor nest. All of the raptors killing people start popping up after the raptor fence goes down from the reboot and the boat makes it's trip without a single seaman getting eaten to tip off the sailors that something is amiss.

It's kind of weird in hindsight.

oldpainless
Oct 30, 2009

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How do you people know what raptors would or wouldn’t do? Were you there?

ante
Apr 9, 2005

SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS
I guess the wild raptors are less angry?


That raises another question, of how those exist though. Surely if they were bred and raised in the raptor pen, the park personnel would notice

Krispy Wafer
Jul 26, 2002

I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat

Grimey Drawer
The whole point of Jurassic Park is that any statement, “surely they would have...” is answered “no”.

They could have bred 5 raptors and be looking at 6 raptors and it wouldn’t click because they were looking for fewer dinos instead of more. Even if someone thought they saw 6 raptors, management would look at their database and say “no, 5 raptors. Says it right here.”

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FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

ante posted:

I guess the wild raptors are less angry?


That raises another question, of how those exist though. Surely if they were bred and raised in the raptor pen, the park personnel would notice

Yeah, but even then: You've got two different ecosystems with a bunch of semi domesticated, trained animals(T Rex has a dental plan) and a bunch of animals that have had to hunt and stuff for their food and existed with things that hunted them. Both these groups should have gotten jumbled up producing interesting reactions and stories. You literally NEVER see any of the the wild dinos besides the compies and the raptors at all. You could completely excise all the other breeding groups from the book with all of a handful of edits to the control room scene where they figure it out.

There's no strangely devastated greenery, animals seen in the wrong pens/regions, game trails, or anything of that nature that a bunch of big old animals would produce. It's just so bizarre to me know that I'm thinking about it, because "And they've been escaping for some time" was a huge plot point, but you never actually see it or it's consequences outside of the book ends and the solid snake boat raptors.

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