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Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady


Wow. I think I've managed not to post in two threads now. This "being a grownup" thing really eats into your time.

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FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

daef





BalloonFish posted:

It was to make the Lend-Lease aircraft fit the official naming scheme.

Fighters had generally aggressive/macho names but would be named by the manufacturer. So the Curtiss needed a name, and the Air Ministry came up with Tomahawk as a play on the manufacturer's own model name.

Purpose-built naval fighters were named after seabirds (real or mythical) - Skua, Roc, Martlet Gannet. Navalised versions of land fighters used the normal name with 'Sea' in front - Sea Gladiator, Sea Hurricane etc.

Torpedo bombers were named after game fish- Swordfish, Albacore, Barracuda, Tarpon.

Land-based bombers were named after British towns (Lancaster, Stirling, Halifax) and it was decided to name American types after similarly mid-tier US cities (Boston, Baltimore, Chesapeake (?)).

Well dang, that makes a lot more sense than I was expecting.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


Arquinsiel posted:

This "being a grownup" thing really eats into your time.
good lord what have you been doing

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


FAUXTON posted:

Well dang, that makes a lot more sense than I was expecting.

He's opened a whole new genie out the bottle now. I kind of want to know the Soviet naming conventions.

Mazz
Dec 12, 2012

Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.


Grimey Drawer

SeanBeansShako posted:

He's opened a whole new genie out the bottle now. I kind of want to know the Soviet naming conventions.

I’ve never really heard any “official” nicknames for Soviet fighters. It’s always model numbers and they’re usually progressive numbering, including helicopters. NATO identifier nicknames are what you hear after all of them were always just words that started with F or B or H for the aircraft type/role.

There is some numbering structure to Soviet systems though, you’ll very rarely find fighters with even numbers or bombers with odd numbers.

They’ve also always gone really heavy on abbreviations added for airframe changes. For example the Su-30MKI: MKI stands for "Modernizirovannyi, Kommercheskiy, Indiski" meaning "Modernized, Commercial, Indian". Those changes can be pretty comprehensive over time.

Mazz fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Aug 22, 2019

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

Almost finished reading the kursk book i have. Its good.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


Mazz posted:

I’ve never really heard any “official” nicknames for Soviet fighters. It’s always model numbers and they’re usually progressive numbering, including helicopters. NATO identifier nicknames are what you hear after all of them were always just words that started with F or B or H for the aircraft type/role.

There is some numbering structure to Soviet systems though, you’ll very rarely find fighters with even numbers or bombers with odd numbers.

I mean nicknames will also do.

Mazz
Dec 12, 2012

Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.


Grimey Drawer

SeanBeansShako posted:

I mean nicknames will also do.

I feel like I’ve heard a couple over time from like aircrew nicknames but they’re not coming to mind, just the NATO identifiers this morning. The only thing I do remember is how the aircrews liked to siphon off the grain alcohol coolant/de-icer used on the MiG-25 and get shitfaced. I’m pretty sure it was partly methanol too, filtered through a loaf of bread.

Mazz fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Aug 22, 2019

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady


HEY GUNS posted:

good lord what have you been doing
Went back to college, got a degree, got a job, did some certs, got married. You know, the usual really.

MikeCrotch
Nov 5, 2011

I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese


Sometimes Soviet/Russians would adopt the reporting name as a nickname, in particular the Fulcrum because it was actually positive.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



FrangibleCover posted:

Meanwhile in the UK the Wildcat became the Martlet, the Hellcat became the Gannet, the Avenger became the Tarpon, the Vindicator became the Chesapeake, the Havoc became the Boston and the Warhawk became the Kittyhawk.

We did good names, but we didn't do them for Americans.

Y'all were good at naming warships, at least. Yes, I'm including the Flower class and the HMS Gay Viking.

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010


College Slice

SeanBeansShako posted:

I mean nicknames will also do.

I know the Soviets called the MI-24 Helicopter Gunship (the "Hind"), the "Crocodile ".

Also, not airplanes, but there was conusion about sub names. NATO would give Soviet subs phonetic alphabet names. So, for instance, the "November"
class was a nuclear sub made in the late 50s-early 60s. (The Soviets called it the Whale). It was replaced by the Victor I class (Soviet name "rufle"), and so on.

NATO ran out of letters, so in the 80s, they named a new Soviet sub class the "Akula" (Russian for shark). Unfortunately, the Soviets already had a sub class called the Akula....the boomers that NATO called the Typhoons. So, there was a bunch of confusion there.

Randomcheese3
Sep 6, 2011

"It's like no cheese I've ever tasted."

Cythereal posted:

Y'all were good at naming warships, at least. Yes, I'm including the Flower class and the HMS Gay Viking.

A lot of the sailors aboard the Flowers viewed the naming of the class as a cunning psychological warfare tool against German U-boat crews; while dying for the Fuhrer might be glorious, being killed by a ship named for a flower like Hyacinth, Periwinkle or Cowslip was faintly comical.

ChubbyChecker
Mar 25, 2018
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

daef





Randomcheese3 posted:

A lot of the sailors aboard the Flowers viewed the naming of the class as a cunning psychological warfare tool against German U-boat crews; while dying for the Fuhrer might be glorious, being killed by a ship named for a flower like Hyacinth, Periwinkle or Cowslip was faintly comical.

imagining a last ditch revenge mission ordered from the bunker in Berlin to find and sink the legendary sub-hunter Pansy

MA-Horus
Dec 3, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.



FAUXTON posted:

imagining a last ditch revenge mission ordered from the bunker in Berlin to find and sink the legendary sub-hunter Pansy

Perhaps the Pansy would be teamed up with the blockade runner HMS Gay Viking

JcDent
May 13, 2013

Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!


Arquinsiel posted:

Wow. I think I've managed not to post in two threads now. This "being a grownup" thing really eats into your time.

I skipped 9850 posts to get on this thread.

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

Cythereal posted:

Y'all were good at naming warships, at least. Yes, I'm including the Flower class and the HMS Gay Viking.

Spacewolf
May 19, 2014


Random uniform question: When did name tags/strips/things on military uniforms become a thing?

TK-42-1
Oct 30, 2013

looks like we have a bad transmitter



Pillbug


If there’s a reasonable explanation for this name I don’t want to know what it is.

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010



So I'm currently vacationing down in Antibes, France, and would you believe it they have an actual early star fort sitting around right here, named Fort Carée. It was built in the 16th century on a small peninsula at the border to the city of Nice, which was controlled by the duchy of Savoy at the time. So enjoy a few terrible pictures and bits of trivia I managed to snag.

First off, a model of the whole thing to give an overview. There's a central round tower, containing all the accommodations for the garrison of 50, surrounded by 4 triangular bastions containing cannon embrasures and a patrol/firing step. The larger building on the bottom bastion contains the officer's quarters, and below to its right is the actual entrance:


Each bastion was largely similar, with a few cannon embrasures, and a small store room for arms and ammunition at their very tip:



All bastions have two embrasures made specifically for enfilading fire along the walls of the adjacent ones. This guaranteed that there was no one blind angle where no cannon could reach. Here's a shot from directly above one of those, showing how it can shoot right along the wall of the neighbouring bastions, with the mirroring embrasure visible in the centre:


Each bastion is named for the place it's pointing towards, that being Nice, Corsica, Antibes, and, well, France . Here's a shot of the Bastion Nice, with the actual city of Nice in the far right background:


Here's a shot of the central tower from one of the bastions. There was a rather strict policy of separation between the buildings: The tower was for living only, and the bastions for fighting/guarding only. Unfortunately, the tower was pretty drat cramped for 50 people, leading to a lot of impromptu expansions made by soldiers whenever they could get away with it. Shacks and lean-tos for sleeping would spring up on the bastions, and were dutifully razed whenever an inspection came about. One time some genius even carved out a new furnace at the lowest floor, which ended up being located right next to the powder magazine.


Finally, the most important place of all: the shitter. It turns out to be literally just a hole in the wall located in one of the bastions. And yes, there was only one of these available for 50+ people.


Eventually Vauban himself came around to inspect it, and basically declared it to be nice but also pretty much useless on account of being much too small. I suppose he had a point, looking at those embrasures it seemed like you'd only manage to get about 4 cannon on a given target at the best of times. He immediately set about massively expanding the scale of the fortifications by basically turning the entire peninsula into a huge fort with embrasures at the beaches and the original fort at the centre, but those modifications were never quite finished. Afterwards the fort was mostly used as a training ground, with the surrounding peninsula being turned into a huge obstacle course.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Spacewolf posted:

Random uniform question: When did name tags/strips/things on military uniforms become a thing?

Do you mean name tapes like "John Q. Dickface" on modern uniforms or do you mean like other forms of unit identification?

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009



Fallen Rib

SeanBeansShako posted:

I mean nicknames will also do.

I've read that crews would call both the MiG-23 and Su-24 as "Suitcase" because of their boxy geometry. Meanwhile Su-25 was called "Rook" (the bird, not chess piece).

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009



Fallen Rib

Spacewolf posted:

Random uniform question: When did name tags/strips/things on military uniforms become a thing?

This is an old German invention!

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009

kiss kiss


Pillbug

Nenonen posted:

This is an old German invention!



Man I didn't realize that Göring went to Africa

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Nenonen posted:

This is an old German invention!



this is why i asked my question - these are unit identifiers, not John Q Dickface identifiers

edit: and unit identifiers on uniforms go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009



Fallen Rib

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

this is why i asked my question - these are unit identifiers, not John Q Dickface identifiers

Coincidentally, Hermann Göring was caught precisely because he was carrying forged papers for John Q Dickface.

Carillon
May 9, 2014





MikeCrotch posted:

Sometimes Soviet/Russians would adopt the reporting name as a nickname, in particular the Fulcrum because it was actually positive.

I have to ask given the red text, do you have a link to your Bolognese recipe?

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

Carillon posted:

I have to ask given the red text, do you have a link to your Bolognese recipe?

Its a joke. 2 threads ago someone asked and there is no recipe.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



TK-42-1 posted:

If there’s a reasonable explanation for this name I don’t want to know what it is.

It's the name of a bug.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


TK-42-1 posted:

If there’s a reasonable explanation for this name I don’t want to know what it is.

I don't recall any kind of Rooster Rubbing fad in the late 19th century....

Either that or some dude is being a smug RN francophobe and thinks he's sticking it to the French.


Awww, the magic just got ruined .

Zorak of Michigan
Jun 10, 2006

Waiting for his chance

SeanBeansShako posted:

I don't recall any kind of Rooster Rubbing fad in the late 19th century....

Either that or some dude is being a smug RN francophobe and thinks he's sticking it to the French.


Awww, the magic just got ruined .

HMS Smug Francophobe would be a fine name.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014



College Slice

and the HMS Angry Scotsman

MikeCrotch
Nov 5, 2011

I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese


Carillon posted:

I have to ask given the red text, do you have a link to your Bolognese recipe?

If you're American a Pepperami is a Slim Jim

BalloonFish
Jun 30, 2013



Grimey Drawer

Zorak of Michigan posted:

HMS Smug Francophobe would be a fine name.


The RN's name-trolling tends to be (slightly) subtler than that. Consider the case of President. The Brits capture the heavy frigate, pride of the USN, one of the original frigates, named after one of the nation's defining political principles and which was involved in the flashpoint that kicked off the War of 1812. The ship is taken into RN service as the (slightly oxymoronic) His Majesty's Ship President.

In 1829, 11 years after the original ship was found to be rotten and broken up, the RN commissions an exact replica, even though it's far from a worthwhile design. The new ship, still called HMS President, is sent to be flagship of the North American Station under the command of the officer who directed the burning of Washington DC.

Really smacks of "No, I'm totally over it...see how totally over 1812 I am. I'm FINE. Gawd..."

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017



Secretly neither the US or Canada is over the War of 1812.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008




BalloonFish posted:

Really smacks of "No, I'm totally over it...see how totally over 1812 I am. I'm FINE. Gawd..."

I mean it's not like Britain lost the war, sooo?

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

Yes, it's like a lava lamp.



Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Secretly neither the US or Canada is over the War of 1812.

This is extremely true. Oddly enough I don't get the sense that it's all that big a deal in Quebec, despite the French militia probably being the best performing Canadian units.

Ice Fist
Jun 20, 2012

^^ Please send feedback to beefstache911@hotmail.com, this is not a joke that 'stache is the real deal. Serious assessments only. ^^


Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Secretly neither the US or Canada is over the War of 1812.

I wasn't even really aware that anything important happened in 1812. In fact, I didn't know anything really occurred in the US between 1800 and 1861.

This is a joke based on vague recollections of my US history education in elementary school and high school

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golden bubble
Jun 3, 2011

yospos


feedmegin posted:

I mean it's not like Britain lost the war, sooo?

When you think about it, no one who matters lost that war , since the fate of Native Americans don't matter in things written during the 19th century.

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