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Mr Enderby
Mar 28, 2015



Alchenar posted:

Fascinating how there's still so much more to come out of studying this war when it the most documented thing ever.

There is always more history.

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SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009


Cessna posted:

The big problem I have with Total War games is how command and control is handled. You click a button and a unit a half a mile away instantly moves where you want it to. Similarly, at the strategic level you have instant and accurate information about where your units are and what they're doing, and they also instantly respond to your commands.

Attempted to play one of the mods trying to bring more of a realistic tactical sort of scope to battle with Napoleon Total War a few years back (one done by the Lordz nerds) and my sole memory of this experience next your armies being comically stoic about being shot to pieces and taking forever to hit something was their attempt at trying something like this.

By crow barring the fog of war line of sight mechanics to silly levels.

I had a laugh seeing a small army of 8000 blue coated Frenchmen suddenly showing out of nowhere and popping into view in around 150 yards.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


Cyrano4747 posted:

Larger individual balls moving at higher individual velocities. Shotguns are loving old and date back to basically the moment gun powder started being a thing.
i keep saying this but i want people to listen, which is that most gun things are much older than you think. most of the stuff you see later was developed in the 1500s.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

A 12 ga shotgun shooting slugs actually generates almost identical muzzle energy to a .70 cal black powder musket
it should--original "standard" muskets were 1/12 pound of lead

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


SerCypher posted:

Because in ye olde times everyone stayed up late like we do, they all just had 10,000 torches and candles in their dwellings.
this is actually an interesting question and in my research if you pay close attention to the times people say things happened, soldiers stayed up late a lot

https://www.amazon.com/Evenings-Emp...n/dp/0521721067

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Родина слышит




Pillbug

Alchenar posted:

Here's some good stuff: https://twitter.com/DrBenWheatley/s...477707866148864

Fascinating how there's still so much more to come out of studying this war when it the most documented thing ever.

Zamulin had an interesting video about studying Kursk specifically. Like Mr Enderby said, there's always more history. In the 80s the strict Soviet historiography started to crack, and you had veteran testimony that didn't exactly align with the official narrative, then when everything started cracking at the seams in the early 90s more information was available than ever, in 2012 the Russian MoD just said "gently caress it" and declassified everything. But that's not it, there are documents in regional archives that fell through the cracks back in the 40s when all the paperwork was archived, there are of course German documents in NARA and the Bunedarchiv that became available to download, etc etc... And that's for a guy who lives and breathes Prokhorovka. There are people on the other side of the world from him who are still getting used to the idea that not everything that comes out of Russia is propaganda.

Big Dick Cheney
Mar 30, 2007



VR game where you sit in a cottage and get contradictory reports from messengers, and you can only send out orders the same way.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

I still can't believe they cast Spock as me. Spock! Can you imagine?

Of course, he was missing a few things.



Big Dick Cheney posted:

VR game where you sit in a cottage and get contradictory reports from messengers, and you can only send out orders the same way.
Sort of like Dwarf Fortress but with slightly less magma?

Oberndorf
Oct 20, 2010


HEY GUNS posted:

this is actually an interesting question and in my research if you pay close attention to the times people say things happened, soldiers stayed up late a lot

Do we know that when they said: "Three in the morning" they actually meant what we would think of as 3am, or if it was a reference to some other way of marking time (something like a monastic prayer schedule, or part of their unit's drill routine, say)?

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

Hubris

Fun Shoe

Big Dick Cheney posted:

VR game where you sit in a cottage and get contradictory reports from messengers, and you can only send out orders the same way.

Now I'm imagining a game where you play as the adjutant for a general and you have to figure out how to massage the messages you receive so that he gives the right orders for you to win the battle/war. You can't outright lie, and you can't change the outgoing orders, but how you present things will change the general's priorities, and if you do nothing he'll just blindly stumble into extremely bad strategies because he's totally unqualified.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


Oberndorf posted:

Do we know that when they said: "Three in the morning" they actually meant what we would think of as 3am, or if it was a reference to some other way of marking time (something like a monastic prayer schedule, or part of their unit's drill routine, say)?
they don't drill, and clocks are a thing by the 1620s

anyway,
uh
i just ordered a book online, used. it's geoffrey parker's copy: dedicated to him by the author with his notes in the back

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Now I'm imagining a game where you play as the adjutant for a general and you have to figure out how to massage the messages you receive so that he gives the right orders for you to win the battle/war. You can't outright lie, and you can't change the outgoing orders, but how you present things will change the general's priorities, and if you do nothing he'll just blindly stumble into extremely bad strategies because he's totally unqualified.

I mean that's reality and it's a bit Paper's Please. There's 50 things calling for attention and some of them need decisions and some of them don't and the General only has so much time and focus.

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010


College Slice

There's Radio Commander (set in Vietnam) and its sequel, Radio General (set in WWII), where your sitting back at headquarters with a radio and a map, and you get all your reports and send orders to your squads through the radio. If you want to tell them to go somewhere, you give them map coordinates, and they'll try to go there, and you plot it on your map. If you forget where they are or how they're doing, you call in and ask for a status report. They tell you if they see contacts, and you can tell them to engage or not, but they could be wrong, or maybe the contacts are friendlies they misidentify...(which is also why it's important to plot the location of your troops on your map correctly).

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

In the 17th century, the Holy Roman Empire was ravaged by the Thirty Years' War. In the middle of this chaos appeared a Japanese mercenary named Isaak. His fierce battle begins!


SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I always thought that a realistic way of making an RTS where you just play as a single commander ordering everybody around would be a game where you're tightly controlling just a single infantry formation like you would a boat in Sid Meier's Pirates, but you'd also have the ability to break the commander away from the unit so they do their own thing and scarper off to another group of infantry to maneuver them around.

Maybe even enter into a battlefield all by your lonesome and gather up stragglers into a new infantry formation like it's the Wonderful 101, and you can get messengers to extend the maximum size of formation you can build.

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Родина слышит




Pillbug

SlothfulCobra posted:

I always thought that a realistic way of making an RTS where you just play as a single commander ordering everybody around would be a game where you're tightly controlling just a single infantry formation like you would a boat in Sid Meier's Pirates, but you'd also have the ability to break the commander away from the unit so they do their own thing and scarper off to another group of infantry to maneuver them around.

Maybe even enter into a battlefield all by your lonesome and gather up stragglers into a new infantry formation like it's the Wonderful 101, and you can get messengers to extend the maximum size of formation you can build.

Try Men of War, that sounds like what you want. You can do the standard RTS thing or you can take direct control of one unit (usually a tank) which makes it much more effective than the AI control. Of course, you sacrifice situational awareness while doing this, so you can't get too laser focused.

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Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT MY LOVE OF EUGENICS AND MARIO 3


College Slice

The project I'm working on has some ideas for basically a "total war rogue like" along those lines. You have a combination of drums, signal flags, runners, (and depending on tech) semaphores, and messenger pigeons for giving out orders and also for receiving information. With your "map" updating according to the latest intel you have received, with an associated confidence interval. The better trained or more talented the characters you picked to lead your formations are, the more accurate or reliable the information (and the tighter the confidence interval) becomes.

(Basically if your flank bumps into the main enemy army, and tells you so, perhaps your flank is weaker than you first thought, and can more aggressively attempt to push or flank it to support your flank, but this information might also be wrong! And it's all in your hands, so you have to look at other factors like, "Ah, Ocre One-Eyed gave this report, probably not right...")

Depending on their traits, some of your subordinates might do things on their own, seizing on opportunities or perhaps fumbling their way into an ambush, the results of which take some time to get to you. The more you trust your subordinates to do the right thing, the more freedom you have with the forces directly under your command to act independently of the rest of the army.

The goal is to try to represent the scale and challenges of operational level warfare of the 1600s-1800s that would be too large for total war style battles while also being real time. Combining an "off map" and "on map" component. With a campaign where you can go up and down the ranks depending on your success/failures. A Sharpe Simulator if you will.

Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jun 3, 2020

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