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Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

HEY GUNS posted:

yeah i don't want to hurt anyone and i'd feel like poo poo if i had to. it's the act of fighting i dig, not the product

Yeah, same here. That's why I prefer HEMA over buhurt, less chance of breaking things and places and generally if you land a hit it ends the bout.

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Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

HEY GUNS posted:

early modern legal theorists were entirely into the idea that there could be legal or illegal wars. GARS was into media and what new media could do for him and he had a legal justification for his acts published shortly after he made landfall at Stralsund
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Grotius

16th and 17th, sorry man

Yeah, even before he set sail he held speeches to his councillors about wether this war was a just one and should he inflict more misery on his subjects. It was theatre, of course, but very important theatre.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Accorging to a folk tale this fellow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_De_la_Gardie owned a massive cannon whose barrel read "Kymmenen peninkulmaa kannan/ ja vieläkin terveiset annan. Kun tällä laulan / ei Räävelissäkään akat naura." ("I reach to a hundred kilometers and still bring greetings / when I sing with this even the hags of Revelia (modern day Tallinn) won't dare laugh.") Obviously no-one in the 1500's/1600's had a cannon that could shoot a hundred kilometers, but like tales do it has lived a life of its own.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

MikeCrotch posted:

Looting of food literally ground the Spring Offensive to a halt in certain places in WWI, as German troops overran allied trenches and found food they hadn't been able to get for years thanks to the blockade.

Yeah, Storms of Steel by Erns Unger has section where he describes the amazement of his troops when they encounter that food. He notes something like "I cannot entirely blame them for eating everything they can get their hands on."

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Cessna posted:

During the "Desert Shield" stage we drove around quite a bit and would occasionally cross paths with other units. Once we ran into a French Foreign Legion armored car/recon unit. We stopped and ate together. They broke out a bottle of wine.

We were stunned, as Saudi Arabia was/is a 100% "dry" country. Wine or any other form of alcohol is absolutely prohibited - but nonetheless, the Legion had their wine.

I remember asking a Legionnaire what would happen if their wine was cut off. In a dead serious tone he replied, "We would shoot our officers."

I know some fellows who were peacekeepers in Kosovo in the early 2000's and they said the same about the Armee de Terre (I think, the regular French army). Wine was a part of the rations, not that the soldiers were plastered, at least in public.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Tias posted:

The sentiment is found everywhere. An old sung that is still sung on occasion (I sang it a this august with some strangers) here in Denmark is "It hisses with ester and bubbles with yeast" which in Danish rhymes with "..but it is cheap and gets you drunk like a pig".

Yeah, there is one from Finland about the Finnish Prohibition, called Mannakorven Mailla (At the Manna-woods). My non-rhyming translation:

The kronbefallingsman (police official) cursed and walked in circles at the courthouse,
when the Lobsterboy rolled out hundred-bills from his walled. .

:,:Hurahuhhahhei at the Manna-woods,
a ton of moonshine has been distilled!:,:

The police drive around the woods all day and night,
looking for the moonshiners factory and workshop.
:,:Hurahuhhahhei at the Manna-woods,
a ton of moonshine has been distilled!:,:

Some boys ate herrings, dead drunk,
and others piled more logs under te still. .

:,:Hurahuhhahhei at the Manna-woods,
a ton of moonshine has been distilled!:,:

They'v stilled a hundred liters,
and the Lobster's pot and still have been smashed.

:,:Hurahuhhahhei at the Manna-woods,
a ton of moonshine has been distilled!:,:

Now that the era of liberated booze has dawned,
we no longer want moonshine.

:,:Hurahuhhahhei at the Manna-woods,
they no longer make moonshine!:,:

And if the bastards in charge rise the price of booze too high,
then moonshine will yet take vengeance on them.
:,:Hurahuhhahhei at the Manna-woods,
they'll soon again make moonshine!:,:

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Zeond posted:

On the issue of explosive shot, the idea is quite an old one but from 1860 to 1900, armour was well ahead of gunpower. In general, materials and fuses were not up to the task and shells would either break open or burst upon contact with armour. Even during WWI, fuses were an issue as the Grand Fleet found out during Jutland where their shells often failed to penetrate comparatively thin armour due to bursting on impact.

There was the Battle of Lissa, where the Austrian Navy beat Italians with ramming attacks, partially due to this very issue. There is an awesome painting of the Austrian admiral Tegethoff commanding a ramming attack on his flagship:

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Nenonen posted:

Then of course you are expected to know the arcane rules of addressing civilians, like if a German has a double doctorate then you better call them as Herr or Frau(lein) Doktor Doktor! :v:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_honorifics

I worked for some time for a Finnish company that had bought a German one. The Germans sent instructions to our Service Desk on how to adress which of their employees. Some higher-up in Finland went "screw this, we bought them, they didn't buy us, never mind all this" and instructed the Service Desk just to call everyone by their names. This must have mightily pissed of some German folks.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Squalid posted:


This map doesn't say its source but it is pretty similar to other maps which were published in the thirties but I'm posting this one just because it is more legible. Something to keep in mind when looking at maps of "ethnicity" or nationality though is that they are not actually well defined. As the legend says many of the "Germans" living in the red areas might not have even spoken German. What is the ethnicity of Hans Schmidt, whose family has lived in Estonia for five generations, whose mother is Russian and who speaks better Estonian and Russian than German? The answer is that he may be German, Russian, or Estonian, or none of these, or all of them. What he is may change throughout his life depending on his feelings and the circumstances he finds himself in. Part of the nationalist projects of the 19th and 20th century was forcing people to choose.

That map also shows a substantial amount of German settelements in southern Finland, which really wasn't the case. During the Swedish era some Germans were given land in Finland for various war services rendered, but most of these were nobility or wealthier merchants, there weren't really German villages/settlements, but places where the local mansion-owner might have German ancestry but all the other people were native Finns or Finnish-Swedish. The city of Vyborg that doesn't show on the map, on the other hand, had a substantial german speaking minority and there was a saying in the 20's'-30's that if you really wanted to do business in Vyborg you wanted to speak at least 6 languages.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Cessna posted:

Part of the problem was that there weren't a lot of awards available, as opposed to the rainbow of awards available today.

European practice during the late 18th century was that medals and awards were only for officers, not enlisted soldiers. The first award given by the US/Continental Army was the "Fidelity Medallion," a one-time medal for the capture of Maj. Andre and this, oddly, went to both officers and enlisted. After this Washington made the unusual move of making other awards for common soldiers and instituted the Badge of Military Merit (now the Purple Heart and associated with wounds) and two levels of Honorary Badges of Distinction. These all fell into disuse when the War of Independence ended.

During the Mexican War the army started issuing a "Certificate of Merit," but this wasn't made into a medal until much later. And the Medal of Honor wasn't even established until after the Civil War started.

So as far as most soldiers were concerned during the Civil War the only awards that were even available were that "Certificate of Merit" or a Medal of Honor. As a result a lot of Medals of Honor were given for actions that wouldn't result in one today.

Yeah, the Russian instated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_St._George at 1807 especially for non-officers. Sweden started their in 1748 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%B6r_tapperhet_i_f%C3%A4lt and I don't really know about the other powers.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Synnr posted:

Off the top of my head outside of early 20s/treaty of Kars maybe (revolutionaries all being friendly and such) they've been at each other since like 1500something. And the whole WWII thing kinda soured that one.

Yeah, there is even a wikipedia article about all those wars. And there were quite a few: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Russo-Turkish_wars

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Comstar posted:


Did the Saxons, Bavarians, Piedmont, Denmark or Sweden accomplish much between 1790 and 1815? There's army lists or figures for most of them but I have no information on if they were actually able to do anything compared to the major powers.


Sweden fought the eventually inconclusive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Swedish_War_(1788–1790), then the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_War where it lost badly to Russia and some 25,000 Swedishs troops participated in the Battle of Leipzig in 1813.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Tias posted:

If we're talking 'most at war', both Denmark-Sweden and England-France wins, the first by number of wars fought and the second by most time at war with one another :eng101:

Also Sweden-Russia was about 600 years of random wars, some of them lasting decades.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Raenir Salazar posted:

Didn't the Finns make some really substantial and effective reforms for artillery?

Indeed. For example this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_Correction_Circle

Through his methods they were able to concetrate fire from multiple batteries effectively, especially at Tali-Ihantala (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tali-Ihantala).
From the Tali-Ihantala wikipedia article:

"The ensuing Finnish concentration of artillery fire was the heaviest in the country's military history.[31] It was based on the famed fire correction method of Finnish Artillery General Vilho Petter Nenonen, which enabled easy fire correction and quick changes of targets.[5] At the critical Ihantala sector of the battle, the Finnish defenders managed to concentrate their fire to the extent of smashing the advancing Soviet spearhead.[31] The clever fire control system enabled as many as 21 batteries, totaling some 250 guns, to fire at the same target simultaneously in the battle; the fire controller did not need to be aware of the location of individual batteries to guide their fire, which made quick fire concentration and target switching possible. The Finnish artillery fired altogether over 122,000 rounds of ordnance. This concentration was considered a world record at the time.[5] These fire missions managed to halt and destroy Soviet forces that were assembling at their jumping off points. On thirty occasions the Soviet forces destroyed were larger than battalion size.[10]"

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?
We had this thing with plastic soldiers where you would pick a side from the sandbox at the playground, dig some sort of trenches and place the soldiers there. You would then pitch rocks at the soldiers in turns, until all the soldiers on the other side had been buried in sand. The one with unburied ones left was the winner.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?
The Finnish perspective of the WW1 was a sort of detached "tons of people died abroad, here everything was chill until the civil war of 1918, also becoming independent was neat".
High-school history concentrated more on WW2 as Finland actually took part in it, with regards to WW1 it was more about how the Finnish independence came about. Also, gory art of Otto Dix in both basic school and high-school books (ages 13-16 and 16-19). Studying for a bachelors and then masters degree on history left me with a profoundly unsympatethic picture of all of the empires involved, as all had their own mountains of corpses caused by their policies. It's a strange position as a Finn to find yourself in, as without the collapse of the Russian Empire I might not be able to have grown up speaking my native language and the perspective taught in the uni in Scotland (where I did my bachelor) was profoundly positive about the Russian Empire, with a sidenote of "unfortunately it didn't last, shame about all the communism".

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Squalid posted:

doesn't seem like that bad of a deal tbh. But if Finns weren't being slaughtered in the trenches or even suffering from wartime famines and etc, what was driving the independence movement? Or was Finland kind of like Poland and Hungary in that there had already been long simmering nationalist tension and political action?

This is a very complicated matter, to say the least. The two "Russification" periods of Nicholas II's reign were a big part of this. The first one was stopped by the Russo-Japanese War, the second one by WW1. Prior to Nick2 independence had been a real pipe dream and there was little chance of it becoming a very popular cause. The separate Grand-Duchy status of Finland gave it benefits that Poland, for example, didn't have. Also, the Finnish population was tiny compared to the Russian one and Russia could have, in case of an uprising, absolutely flooded the country with soldier, as St.Petersburg was very close to it. The actions of Nicholas II threatened not only some career bureacrats, but pretty much all the classes. The upper class would see their importance in the Grand-Duchy wane as ethnicly Russian persons would be brought in to take the high positions in government. The middle class would similarly see career prospects stymied by good positions going purposefully to Russians. And the lower class could fear being conscripted for future wars (since about the 1870's the Finnish units of the Russian Army had been volunteers) and also having the more lenient Finnish court system eventually be replaced by the Russian one (for example there was effectively no death penalty in Finland, all such sentences being automatically commuted to exile since about 1820's, even the notorious Ostrobothinan knife-killers were not put to death).

Effectively by the time of the Russo-Japanese war Finnish goodwill towards Russia is falling. It's aftermath calms things for a while (for example universal vote for men and women in 1906) but when the Russification begins again things go sour and various people start preparing for actions. There had been some violent activists before, but what happens during WW1 dwarfs this. The Jaeger movement, where young men flee the country and join the German army is a good example of this. It even had some socialist in its ranks, as initially its aim was simply to get military training for a possible future occasion when a rising could take place. The fact that Germany beat the stuffings out of Russia brought this faraway opportunity much closer.

And the participation of the German forces is a Matter of Some Debate (tm). They landed near Helsinki, the capitol which was in the hands of the Reds at the time. The White army, led by Mannerheim, captured the Red stronghold of Tampere around the same time and the loss of both meant curtains for Red Finland. It's a sort of a consensus that the German detachment shortened the war, but the loss of Tampere doomed the Red cause as it was both their main city, a large transport hub and the most industrialized city in the country.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Grand Prize Winner posted:

OK, even if you're not a #1 communism fan who buys all of Marky Marx's albums on vinyl the day they come out, how do you manage to put a positive spin on tsarist Russia? What was the early pre-1917 Russian state good at, like at all?

Well, from my perspective it felt like in the UK the line of thought went somewhere along the lines of "kings good, communism bad, communists killed the king-equivalent of Russia, who must have been good". Also, the history of Imperial Russia wasn't really very well known even among history students. And it wasn't a total horrorshow of a country, but rather crippled by its absolute monarchy. A good tsar could really make things run and a bad one could (and would) drive the whole country off a cliff.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Grimnarsson posted:



Siberia. "Armoa, ei Siperiaan," "Armoa ei, Siperiaan".


Yeah, exiling people to Siberia was the thing. This was not like the Soviet gulag thing though, rather you would be transported to a certain area and had to stay there, but most exiled people did not stay in a prison camp.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

HEY GUNS posted:

Who was the goon who visited a ship-museum and took a photo of himself exactly fitting into the bed

I haven't done that, but I have visited the museum submarine Vesikko in Helsinki and the beds are tiny. I am 180cm and I could barely fit the curled up.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?
Just read about this, WW1 sure had its share of horrors everywhere: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_of_the_Dead_Men?fbclid=IwAR2CMI_KgZNOC5r43DCVmMM_iYS1CkDN-9PugK2vh9PpF26Pg8XtL-tLC_c

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

MikeCrotch posted:

Most other countries don't have;
1. The sheer number of vets as the US
2. So many discounts for armed services people
3. The "thank u 4 ur service" mentality as the US, or at least not as strongly
Yeah, here in Finland actual war veterans are all from WW2 so unless you are 90 years old or so you can't really try to pass for one. There are people who are former UN peacekeepers and some who have taken part in military operations recently (training Kurdish fighters I think), but they don't have the same official status. And all veteran benefits and discounts are, like mentioned later, contingent on official documentation, not on the medals on your breast. Veterans have a slightly higher basic pension but it isn't super high (one Finnish dude made a song "On kaverit nuo komeasti palkittu"(Those fellows were beautifully rewarded) where he jokes that the extra pension buys you a sandwich and a cup of tea).

There is an element of "thank you for your service", but since the people this feeling is targeted towards are very old (and many of them really did see some truly horrid poo poo, WW2 was no joke for them) it's not the sort of hero-worship in social media you see in certain circles in the USA (most likely because very few of the veterans, if any, are active in social media). Sometimes you have small news like "local folks fix the leaking roof of a war veterans home" or "since it's been X years since the battle of Y we interviewed a veteran who was there".

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Nenonen posted:

No, make it Sweden! I would binge a series about the voyages of Vasa.

Actually a series about the formation of Peter I's navy would be cool, finding proper funding from some Russian oil company shouldn't be a hard task. Baltic galley fighting!

Yeah, initial starting episode about the Magnus Makalös and how it's captain blew it up to prevent its capture by the Danes, and the final episode of the series being https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Svensksund, with more than 500 ships and 30,000 men engaged.

Edit: Or start with the Vitaliebruder and the efforts of the Hansa to weed them out, some of their leaders were straight up comic book villains.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Ynglaur posted:

Zhukov was one of the most brilliant military minds of his day. Manstein may have been better, and perhaps Bradley at his best. Guy gets short shrift in most western accounts of The Great Patriotic War WW2.

I bought my friend a copy of the official memoirs of Zhukov, translated into Finnish somewhere around 1980. It's a thing you see in all the Soviet history writing I have read, tons and tons of detail that are not properly explained so you end up with sentences like "The TTP reported to the URRS that the PPPH had accepted the decisions of the AAGH", also no clear explanation on what these various committees and bodies actually did, if anything. Of course, being the official memoirs and written after his death means it's edited to fit a particular narrative.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

ChubbyChecker posted:

I've heard somewhere (maybe some earlier Milhist thread) that the Red side of the Finnish Civil War is somewhat respected.

It depends very much on the particular location, for example Tampere and Helsinki, the main Red strongholds have multiple memorials to both sides while in Osthrobotnia or Kainuu, which were mostly on the White side you wouldn't see many Red memorials. And since the very last person who was officially on the Red side died in something like 2013 (the last White combatant had died earlier) hate about it is slowly dying. And due to a wide variety of factors the aftermath was different from ACW, the Finnish Civil War didn't lead to the kind of "100 years of no real rights for black people" - situation. By the end of WW2 the last remains of laws meant to punish former Reds were gone.

Also, there is a funny story about memorial statues in Tampere. Sometime during the 1970's the normally very left-leaning city council was badly fractured due to fights between and inside the Finnish left parties, and National Coalition, then a "god & fatherland" (later neoliberals) type moderate rightwing party (also a party whose predecessor was a large supporter of the Whites in the Civil War) managed to pull a surprising majority.

They signed a contract with a sculpture maker for a statue of Mannerheim, the commander of the White army, known on the Red side as the arch-butcher, the bloody general and other similar names. The contract stated that the statue must be placed in a place where it can be seen from the central market square of Tampere. Some years pass, the left wing parties recover their majority in the city council and then the sculpture maker turns up and says "the statue is done, now put it somewhere public". The now-leftwing city council is horrified by the prospect, but the contract must be followed or they have to pay a lot of money to the sculpter. In the end they place the statue on a hill that overlooks Tampere, supposedly on the place Mannerheim first saw Tampere from. The hill is something like 3 kilometers from the city center, but it does have direct line of sight to the central market square (if you have binoculars or a looking glass).

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Nenonen posted:

There are also monuments to the Cudgel War of 1596-97 which itself was a subset of the Sweden-Poland's civil war. Peasants rose against the governor of Finland Klaus Fleming, who supported Polish king Sigismund. They were slaughtered by Fleming's men. Eventually the Swedish rebel Duke Charles won, though, so the question stands: were the Finnish peasants rebels against legitimate ruler Sigismund and his governor? Or were they really loyal to the true heir to Gustav Vasa and protector of Lutheranism? And does the larger political picture even matter since in the end the revolt was not directed against Charles but the local lords, taxes and military living off the land?

Btw. this war also contained an episode known as the Sausage Campaign. This is part of the long standing Finnish tradition of having battles named by sausages.

A friend of mine is writing his PhD about these times, more specificly of the effect of Scots mercenaries in the development of warfare in the Swedish kingdom in the late 1500's. The various Wasa kings wanted very badly to modernize their army, with rather varied results.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Warden posted:

I've met people who grew up in Ostrobothnia in the 1990s where their elderly relatives would shout at them if they wore a red shirt or red tie with suit to a family gathering. I have also received hatemail for teaching the various reasons the best name for the Civil War is not "Freedom War" or "War for Finnish Freedom" from my students parents. The name used for Civil War is serious business here in Finland, and you can figure out a lot about the speaker based on what name they choose to use. If someone young uses the name "Freedom War", they are likely extremely right-wing hate-monger. Old people from non-working class families get a pass, since it used to be the official name used in our history books until we came to our senses.

The funny thing about the name is that during and instantly after the war both sides used the term Vapaussota, "Freedom War" about it, it then changed so that nowadays only a rightwinger would use it unironically. Also, a book written by one officer serving in the Soviet Army in the early 20's was called "Vapaussodan rintamilta" (From the frontlines of the Freedom War) and it included stories about fighting in Finland and also fighting in Russia about various White generals of the Russian Civil War.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

SeanBeansShako posted:

But the Needle Gun was certainly a monster in it's prime. The KuK experienced this quite well rolling against the Prussians with their muzzle loaded percussion rifles.

Yeah, from the wikipedia article about the battle of Königgrätz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_K%C3%B6niggr%C3%A4tz):
"The shorter range of the Prussian artillery as compared to the Austrian was moot, while the vastly higher rate of fire from the Prussian breech-loading needle gun, compared to the Austrian muzzle-loading small arms and cannon were paramount. In addition the needle gun could be operated while prone in defense, and while moving quickly on the advance, while the Austrians had to stand up after each shot to reload their Lorenz rifles."

That battle was still not a certain thing, but an important part of it was fought in a wood where being able to fire and reload while prone must have been a heck of an advantage.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Ensign Expendable posted:

There were two attempts to replace the T-26 in service that ended up being disasters with the tank remaining in production from 1931 to 1939 in the meantime. At least both the T-46 and T-50 were finished designs, if not particularly suitable for mass production, but the attempts to replace the T-28 with the T-29 went on for ages because no one could agree what the T-29 would be like.

The T-150, an evolutionary improvement to the KV-1, was in line to be accepted as the replacement for the KV-1


What were these like then? Did they ever make it into a design/prototype phase and what would they have looked like?

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Ensign Expendable posted:

Which ones? All of the tanks I mentioned made it to prototype phase and the T-50 even entered limited production before they figured out there weren't enough factories to make them and switched to the T-60 that could be made with truck parts.

Well, I know of the T-50 but all the other ones are total mysteries to me.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

HEY GUNS posted:

of course

There's a storm in the sky in the night when you die, you're a wizard.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

HEY GUNS posted:

pappenheim. it's a bias of mine but i believe that people from the 17th century have more psychological stamina to deal with catastrophes without folding. he's also the only imperial general gars was personally afraid of.

Yeah, Marat might have been brave but Pappenheim was also pretty drat good at what he did. He was feared for a reason and I love the story, I think posted by you ages ago, about how Wallenstein just barged into some dudes mansion and started embalming Pappenheim on his dinner table in the middle of the night after Lutzen.

Also, in Imperial Russia towards the late 19th century (and likely elsewhere too) Guard units were a separate organization and an officer rank in one could be traded for a higher one in a line unit. The Chevalier Guard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevalier_Guard_Regiment) were pretty much the most lauded one, Mannerheim who was later a general and the President of Finland served there as a junior officer and it pretty much gave a solid boost to the career of a dude who had failed out of one cadet academy already. He also had to marry money to be able to maintain the uniforms, horses etc as that unit expected a very expensive lifestyle of its officers. If you had the connections to get there and the money to stay there it was a real career elevator.

And with regards to mental health in service, I was able to see a psychiatrist in the Finnish Defence Forces back in the early 2000's without catching any flack for it. There were also chaplains, or, as they were called in the FDF, Field Priests. There is even a Field Bishop who equals a Major General (I think) in rank. There were constant jokes about there being the secret rank of the Field Pope, superior to all other field clergy.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?
At least the American made canned food that was provided to the Soviets was highly desired by the Finnish forces whenever they managed to capture them.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

HEY GUNS posted:

if any of yall can read swedish, pick up a copy of Utskrivvning. It's about a single village during the war. It was intended as an analysis from the Marxist perspective but the only thing that survived the test of time is the war data, which is about conscription, and it's horrifying.

say what you will about my regiment's attrition rates, but everyone there was probably there of his own free will.

Yeah, the Swedish conscription system of the 30YW was not really nice for the conscript. And if they died the village they came from had to provide an another one. But, what with the Savolax Regiment, for example consisting for people from Savolax Län, very far inland in Finland, even getting the news there took ages. On the other hand, from what I have read there was no real hazing like there would be in the Carolingian times, there were parellers to Hey Gun's peoples mentality of being honorable individuals. Also, especially Finnish native infantry, aside from the Savolax Regiment initially, very much used in garrison duties (if they can't speak German they can't desert, seems to have been the logic) which to my understading was less harrowing than being on campaign. Also, it has to be kept in mind that much of the army of Gars consisted of mercenaries that were not held by the conscription laws.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

HEY GUNS posted:

Ataxerxes plays a conscript; i play a mercenary

same army, different brigades.

gars gars gars

If you want to find the general
I know where he is
I know where he is
I know where he is
If you want to find the general
I know where he is
He's hanging around with GARS

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?
Also, while the Swedish conscription system was a pain to be part in there was an impetus to the people in Finland to not dodge being drafted. The eastern border between Sweden and Novgorod/Russia was badly defined and there was a more or less permanent state of cross-border skirmishing and raiding. Being conscripted didn't just mean rotting away far from your home, but it for the garrisons on the eastern border it meant A.) being armed at the expense of someone else in case there was a raid and B.) having the possibility of doing some raiding yourself. This was possibly something like the Border Reiving between England and Scotland.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Squalid posted:

For border reivers this kind of raiding would have mostly meant stealing livestock, especially cattle. For raiders on the Russian-Swedish frontier would there have been a large supply of livestock to target, or would they have had some other form of booty in mind?

I think it was more brutal and pretty much everything portable was stolen, I cant find English sources but for example the Finnish wiki article about Pitkä-Viha (Long Hatred, as opposed to Big Hatred, Old Hatred and Small Hatred) https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitk%E4_viha , a 25 year war between Sweden and Russia mentions sacking and destroying villages and parishes.

Ataxerxes fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Apr 4, 2020

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Cyrano4747 posted:

From a few pages back, but that's a cannon. The rear end-end is planted in the ground, the round things on the sides are the pivot where it attaches to the carriage, and there's a cannon ball placed inside the muzzle - that's the round thing on the top. It might date from the actual battle, or just be some surplus that a veteran's association bought to make a monument out if. Not all that uncommon in military cemeteries of that era.

Yeah, there are quite a few places decorated with cannons that had become obsolete. For example the fence around the church of the Suomenlinna sea fortress is made out of cannons that the fort had up to until the 1850's.

Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?

Squalid posted:

a lot of this weird poo poo they're putting in bodies isn't necessarily to preserve them, but just to make it look and smell nice at the wake. That's what all the pigments and wax and stuff are for

Yeah, GARS was killed in the middle of Germany and they slowly transported him to Sweden for burial. Hadn't he been embalmed there would only have been a skeleton left by the time he arrived at Sweden.

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Ataxerxes
Dec 2, 2011

What is a soldier but a miserable pile of eaten cats and strange language?
An article about German and Chinese sword fighting manuals was released for those interested:
https://mas.cardiffuniversitypress.org/articles/abstract/10.18573/mas.101/

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