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PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Quoting from the last thread:

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Harry Turtledove's Timeline 191 books have something roughly akin to that, where the independent Confederacy invades the North and stalls out in a Stalingrad-like fight through Pittsburgh. Also they're nazis and Abraham Lincoln founded the socialist party.

those books were weird.

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PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Secretly neither the US or Canada is over the War of 1812.

This is extremely true. Oddly enough I don't get the sense that it's all that big a deal in Quebec, despite the French militia probably being the best performing Canadian units.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

golden bubble posted:

When you think about it, no one who matters lost that war , since the fate of Native Americans don't matter in things written during the 19th century.

Yeah, and the native american angle is one that should really be talked about more as we try to confront our colonial past. The native contribution to 1812 is a huge one, and then the British more or less just threw them under the bus in the peace settlement.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

CoffeeBooze posted:

Whats the story with your friend getting shot in the head? Because it sure does sound like a good one.

My gut tells me 'negligent discharge'

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

xthetenth posted:

Cartels in Mexico right now are apparently well stocked with some of everything, and he's federal police. Leads to interesting questions sometimes, like 'what's this izmash stamped gun with an angled magazine and pulleys in it' and the followup of 'is this gonna be like the time I found a gyrojet?'



(I don't have a clean picture of the AN-94, sadly)

The AN-94 is goofy as gently caress but I love it to death ever since BF3 introduced me to it. If I was going to own a rifle, and it was anywhere near legal for me to have, it would be that over-engineered son of a bitch.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

The first couple shots are 3 round bursts, yeah. With headphones you can hear the separate reports.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

zoux posted:

Joel Edgerton and friends are adapting Shakespeare's Henriad for Netflix. Here's a trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMJnsTx-TBg

This looks really cool, but I'm choked that it's a movie and not a limited run series. There's so much material there.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Siivola posted:

Who wants to watch a bunch of dads try to break obsolete military equipment?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxdTkddHaE

This is cool, but the made-for-television expositionary conversations at the beginning are driving me nuts.

PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Aug 29, 2019

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

GotLag posted:

It was a war to exchange being ruled by British landowners for being ruled by American-based landowners

No taxation without representation!
Offer does not apply to slaves, natives or the unpropertied

Hey now, it was also about replacing the ruling tier of American-based landowners with the newer group of American-based landowners!

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

It would be if he had actually meant it. "Rich white protestant men have a bunch of inalienable rights" had been pretty well established in the ECW.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

e: for example how leftists today will explain the Boston Massacre, in which terrified cops opened fire into a crowd of civilians for the crime of yelling and throwing poo poo at them, as somehow being a justified thing the cops did.

I thought the surprising thing was that cops fired into a crowd of civilians and then some of them were actually convicted for manslaughter. I guess the victims were white though.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

xthetenth posted:

There's a nasty irony there that the Japanese focus on using submarines to prepare for the decisive battle sunk fewer enemy warships than the US strangling the main Japanese lines of communication, setting up perimeters around their operations and taking what came. However it didn't bear fruit till later in the war. There's a lot of converting damaged ships sailing home for repairs into kills, for instance. Just another way the difference between a decisive battle and decisive campaign shows up in WWII.

The fact that it took so long for the submarine warfare campaign to pay off had a lot to do with the awful torpedoes they were stuck with though. Fix those and it would have proven decisive far faster.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

xthetenth posted:

The biggest warship engagements that the Mk 14 screwed up were in 1943. That's not early enough to be compatible with attrition before the main event in a decisive battle model.

Oh yeah I'm not saying that the subs could or should have been employed for some sort of decisive battle action, it's just kind of shocking when you see just how effective the US submarine campaign was, and then realize that they were fighting with one arm tied behind their back for much of the war.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Schadenboner posted:

I'm reading a book about Russian Fashies (cancerous outgrowths of the Whites in the 1930s, not the bunch of ethnonationalist fuckos running it these days) and what's got me scratching the 'ol noodle is wether a Japanese attack at the hight of the purges could have successfully taken Vladivostok and maybe pushed to, like Lake Baikal?

By the height of the purges, 80% of the Japanese army is tied down in the war in China and US-European sanctions are taking one hell of a toll. The Japanese considered such an attack, and they did not like their odds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantokuen#Background

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

It's a couple things. First is the 'all big gun' layout. Prior to Dreadnought most battleships had one or big guns, and then a bunch of intermediate sized guns, and then some small ones. The guns are mostly casemated as well, so they can only fire to one side of the ship. Dreadnought does away with that, and her armament is pretty much all big guns, and in turrets. Not all of the guns are capable of firing to either side, but she is clearly an anti-battleship battleship that's going to bring very powerful weapons to bear at very long range, and older designs simply won't be able to compete.

Second thing is hull layout and powerplant. The hull shape was new, and enabled unmatched speeds, especially when combined with her steam turbines, also a first. So not only does it hit hard, but it can out run pretty much anything too.

Now neither of these ideas were new, really. Navies of different countries had been drifting towards these concepts for a while. Dreadnought was a collection of modern ideas, then combined in a very competent design, and it was clearly superior to what had come before.

Compare it to the emergence of the MBT after the second world war.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Yeah big spaceships fight like naval warships, small spaceships fight like WW2 aircraft.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

HEY GUNS posted:

When the companies amalgamate into batallions to fight it looks like this.
...
(artist's representation of White Mountain. Yes this means that because a batallion is several companies all together, each company's pikemen will seperate from that company's musketeers and stand next to everyone else's pikemen to fight. This is normal.)

Do you know why this was the practice? Like why are pikeman and musketeers part of the same company if they're just going to separate and agglomerate by role during battle?

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

zoux posted:

https://twitter.com/sovietvisuals/status/1174472916999770113

Is the "this guy saved the whole world" stuff you see stories about him oversold

Maybe? It's one of those counterfactuals that's impossible to know. There were some strong signs that the radar he was watching was acting up, so if Petrov had passed it up the chain, then maybe somebody higher in the command might have made the same call. Either way his superiors apparently thought he made the right call (then dinged him for not filling out the paperwork correctly, because bureaucracy never changes either I guess).

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Jack2142 posted:

How did that group of Buddhists end up in the Caucuses

Those are the Kalmyks, they fled the eastern steppe in the early 17th century and basically attached themselves to the Russian tsardom.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

SeanBeansShako posted:

Oh god, I wonder if any of those Canadians died at Dieppe in those films :gonk:

My gut says it's more likely that unit was wiped out at Hong Kong

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

The Lone Badger posted:

I thought piss was specific to certain ww1-era gasses?

In the original instance it was anti-chlorine, the ammonia in urine breaks it down. Might work on others too, not sure.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

zoux posted:

Did any nation view WWI as existential?

I would assume the Serbians did.

e:f;b.

e2: Probably the Austrians too for that matter. Not sure where the Hungarian side of that coin lands though.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.


That manequin feels like it could have been a huge influence on Kate Beaton.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

FMguru posted:

A major problem China had in developing global trade links was there wasn't much outside of China that the Chinese really wanted to buy. The rest of the world wanted Chinese silks, Chinese porcelain, and Chinese spices, whereas China wanted...not much that Europe or India or Japan could produce. Hard to develop a trade network in such an environment.

Yeah this is the whole key as to why Europe goes exploring. Even tapping into very small portions of the Indian ocean trade (and it took a very long time for them to capture a significant fraction of it) was absurdly lucrative to piss-poor European governments. But to China? Not really.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

SimonCat posted:

Going back to Midway and Pearl Harbor, the 1941 movie "Dive Bomber" was filmed in Technicolor and features a lot of footage of the Pre-War Navy, including take offs and landings aboard the USS Enterprise CV-6.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPrW5Lq5K80

What on earth is this dude wearing, some sort of early pressure suit?



I would not want to be doing high-g pull outs with that poo poo on.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

I had a random thought the other day while watching this video about the Tiger II; the figure given here is that in dollar terms every Tiger II cost as much to produce as 9 Shermans, and I'm fairly sure that the cost of Panthers and Tigers was similarly some multiple relative to the Sherman.

But assuming that Gay Black Hitler had decided to built a Sherman equivalent instead of heavy tanks, and thus there were 4-5 times more German AFVs kicking around, would they even have had enough manpower to crew them all?

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

While we're chatting about WWI again, how important was allied counter-battery efforts on the Western front in 1917-18? I seem to remember they invested a whole lot of effort into it but maybe I'm making that up.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Isn't that the simplified version after the war condensed a lot of polities too?

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Xiahou Dun posted:

I don't actually like watching WWII stuff that much so it's rapidly wearing thin after 5 hours.

I mean if you don't like watching WWII stuff then Band of Brothers might not be the show for you.


That said, Generation Kill is the better miniseries.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

zoux posted:

I guess it's obvious in retrospect but I didn't realize it took them this long to formally give up. How rapid was the Allied advance, what would that map have looked like in April '45?

Rapid.

1 April


15 April


1 May


From: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Atlas_of_the_World_Battle_Fronts_in_Semimonthly_Phases_to_August_15_1945

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Nebakenezzer posted:

A question that may be better for the ancient history thread, (I assume that's a thing) but:

Rome and the barbarian invasions in Europe. Where were these various tribes coming from? Are they immigrating from somewhere else, or have they always been there? If they are immigrating, were they previously nomads that just bump into this Roman empire thing?

Most of the groups that wound up within the Roman Empire itself were people who had lived on the periphery of the Roman Empire for a long time, often in fluctuating political alignments (due in no small part to interference by the Roman military). There's no one description that applies to all of them; sometimes there was external pressure causing them to pack up and seek safety within the Empire, sometimes they were all but invited in in hopes of enlisting them in the Roman army, and sometimes (though less commonly) they were straight up invaders. The Huns were really the only ones who seemed to come out of the unknown of the eastern Eurasian steppe, but it's not at all agreed upon as to who exactly they were, the evidence just isn't there one way or the other.

If you're into podcasts, I'd highly recommend Patrick Wyman's Fall of Rome series. If you'd rather read, check out Guy Halsall's Barbarian Migrations and the Roman West.

PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Feb 7, 2020

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Does anyone have figures on the accuracy of WW2 battleship guns? If you assume you have perfect knowledge of the enemy's range, course, and speed, what sort of CEP do those big guns have when you're firing at an enemy ship say 20 km away?

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Also a train got blown up by a submarine.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Xiahou Dun posted:

Does Canada have another way to cough?

Passive aggressively.

As a Canadian, that's at least half of what Canadian 'politeness' is.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

bewbies posted:

A mix of dead reckoning (which, holy hell would that be hard at night)

This wouldn't have been dependent on sightlines though surely? I thought the Navy aircraft all had Sperry gyroscopic systems that could at least hold a constant, meaning you just needed to keep track of the time for your legs? (and worry that the error inherent to DR didn't leave you stranded in the middle of the ocean)

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

ChubbyChecker posted:

My favourite part is the whale noises the Uboats make.

https://youtu.be/OEpEv6kWdtw

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Schadenboner posted:

Industrialization creating new class-based solidarities didn't magically make old religious/ethnic/regional based solidarities disappear

Yeah it's this exactly. I get the same vibe with the Soviet love for secret police; it's hardly surprising the USSR leaned into that given how much the Tsars loved their police state.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Nebakenezzer posted:

Here's a Monday morning piss take: I think economic development in Canada outside of Southern Ontario/Southern Quebec could be seen like that. Much of the Maritimes economic stagnation is caused because the big boys can dominate economies and political structures to an extent that they can kill any politics/business they don't approve of. Newfoundland was explictly a colony for hundreds of years, where rich people could come in and capture virtually all the cash generated from the economic activity there. The reason it had a sally into nationish-hood was to keep those dastardly Canadian merchants from competing with local and British merchants, etc, etc

No coffee, kinda bleary, come at me

Nah that's pretty much Canada in a nutshell. The west and north in particular has also long been a place that you extract resources out of and ship to where the real industry happens (Ontario/Quebec prior to NAFTA, afterwards an increasing proportion to the US). It is a perfectly colonial economic model.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Personally I enjoy that it's not even the countries that need it that are managing the timber supply. The preserved forests seem to be primarily the Scandinavian ones, who mostly planned to sell it to the Royal Navy.

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PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

taqueso posted:

IIRC some other scientists figured it out because everyone stopped publishing papers in that area of research.

Yeah if memory serves both the Russian and Japanese physics community realized that the silence implied there was a real bomb project.

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