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Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
Almost finished reading the kursk book i have. Its good.

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Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Carillon posted:

I have to ask given the red text, do you have a link to your Bolognese recipe?

Its a joke. 2 threads ago someone asked and there is no recipe.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
*spits on the ground*

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
Way to ruin the magic, jerk.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

SeanBeansShako posted:

I mean I am hat biased and not going to get in a fight, to take this further we must pour over the data and see.

But what will alcohol solve in this instance?

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Platystemon posted:

Phanatic should have let the joke stand, but you don’t have to outdo him in pedantry.

“Hey Sue, hand me the alcohol.”

“Here you go.”

And the German engineer responded: "Ah! That's the stoff!"

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
Dunkirk:

-British soldiers getting shot up at the start in a French town, walk for 5 minutes and are at the beaches of Dunkirk, then wait forever until they get lifted off the beaches or stay behind. Makes no sense for the opening scene.
-The long shot of everyone and everything on the beach was cool, but felt like they spent all their budget for that scene as the later beach scenes didn't look anywhere near the same.
-Not as many bombings/shellings of the beaches as I would have expected
-Very little French representation
-He-111 rear gunners don't sound like that!
-While I liked the multiple stories, it cut too frequently between them without keeping the viewer informed as to when things were taking place. I recall timestamps, but for such a long movie, maybe a different approach would've been better.
-Running out of fuel, gliding all the way to Dunkirk, landing in sand, and then burning down your own plane is very weird considering how he was gliding over lines of men waiting to be picked up and suddenly its night outside. And the pilot never thought to ditch in the sea next to an evacuating boat.


Its been a while so I may be forgetting/confounding stuff but those were my biggest gripes with the movie. Good, but not great.

Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Sep 3, 2019

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Ensign Expendable posted:

When I watched it I got the impression that he landed to surrender to the Germans, hence burning the plane and hanging around waiting to get captured.

It looked like the same area where the Germans were shooting at the boat with the dudes hiding in it, but like... why surrender to the Germans if you don't have to?

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Ensign Expendable posted:

Because you can't be arsed to keep fighting and you know that as a British officer you're probably going to have a pretty good time as a POW compared to most people?

Given Tom Hardy's lack of emotion during the film, I'd believe this.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
Oh poo poo, I totally forgot.



The Stukas looked like poo poo

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Nenonen posted:

Mussolini called Leros the "Corregidor of the Mediterranean", meanwhile Americans called Corregidor the "Gibraltar of the East". I think this type of thing needs to spread more, I want to know who is the Montgomery of Russia or Göring of America!

Vasilevsky and Patton respectively.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
All this sudden talk about Corregidor is fun because someone made a module for it for Advanced Squad Leader and I bought it on a whim and I'll get to see how its interpreted before I eventually maybe play a campaign game of it :swoon:

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Nenonen posted:

Does it include burning $20 million dollars and hiding a silver stash in the tunnels as a mission objective?

Don't have the scenarios on-hand at the moment but I'll check when I do in like 3 weeks.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Slim Jim Pickens posted:

iirc Albania didn't really put up a fight

That is correct, Albania simply joined Italy after threats of invasion. I forget what happened to the King (Zog, iirc)

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
They should've heeded the warning of Zog the immortal.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Fangz posted:

I wonder how much Mussolini was supposed to buy into Hitler's "I agonized long and hard over this and decided only just this minute to invade Russia because I had no other choice" spiel.

Probably not very, it was more just a means of being "polite", considering how little confidence the Germans had in Italy's ability to conduct war.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

JcDent posted:

Turns out, they were right :v:

Sure, but by that time you had the French, Greek, and African campaigns to show just how lovely the Italians were. It wasn't a hindsight thing.


Edit: Not counting the Spanish Civil War, of course.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Fangz posted:

So when did they decide to ask the Italians to help guard their flanks for Case Blue?

They didn't. Mussolini was adamant about having Italians in Russia so that, in the event that the Germans won, they could bask in the glory as equals. The Germans initially refused and recommended they send those men and their materiel to Africa, iirc. When German losses started to increase and their own manpower pools couldn't quite afford to replenish everything, they became more demanding on their allies to provide men to fill the gaps.

With regards to Case Blue and Stalingrad, the Italians, Hungarians, and Romanians, were meant to cover the flanks more or less because the Germans were at the spearhead. The capture of Stalingrad was expected to occur relatively quickly, but when that didn't happen, more and more German troops were taken off the rear lines from the surrounding area to supplement losses. This, noticeably, left Germany's allies to cover large swaths of territory without the proper amount of men or materiel to begin with. Their ignorance of the massive buildup of Russian troops, on top of Hitler's insistence to capture Stalingrad, doomed the Germans and their neighbours.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Squalid posted:

What was Mussolini's position on militarism? Was his version of fascism just as big on racial conflict stuff as the Germany variety?

I was reading about Peron in Argentina recently and he was apparently heavily inspired by Italian corporatism under Mussolini. His economic policies and cult of personality look very fashy, but he never seems to adopt the war fetishism or racism that tends to define fascism today.

Best I can put it, and I by no means have anywhere near enough study on the political attitudes of fascism at the time, is that Mussolini thought of himself as the next Caesar and filled his interactions with the Italian population with pompous speeches about how Italy is destined to regain its former glory and so on.

It was just a "Make Italy Great Again" attitude, with plenty of lying and falsifying information about how the trains run on time and the Italian industrial complex is strong and the military is great, despite lack of funds, resources, or training.


Edit: Mussolini definitely had some war fetishism going on, but I'm not sure about the racism part. I've never heard/seen it mentioned.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

ChubbyChecker posted:

Eh, whose arsenal was full of modern stuff in 1939?

Not the Italians, even in 1935.

They had a few things, sure, but the Italian Armed Forces of '35 certainly weren't some top-of-the-line group.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

feedmegin posted:

I remind you that Germany didn't even have Panzer 2s in 1935. It's a low bar.

The T-26 came out in 1931, and is/was vastly superior to anything the Italians had. In 1936 we saw the appearance of the 35 series of French tanks that blew anything the Italians had out of the water. The only comparable tank for the Italians would've been the Fiat 3000 and that was a massive piece of poo poo that were essentially gussied up versions of the FT-17.


Edit: I mean, drat, I'll take an M2 Light Tank or a Lt.Vz.34 over a Fiat 3000 for sure. Or a BT-2 Tank.

Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Sep 4, 2019

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
You don't need to look at Italy's track record in WW1 to see its hosed up 3 campaigns prior to the one you currently wish to embark on :shrug:

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

feedmegin posted:

I'll give you the t-26, that was great. Mentioning a French tank that, again, only first started coming into service the year after I'm talking about isn't exactly making your argument though. My point is exactly they were pretty tooled up for the early 30s then stuff started coming out that obsoleted their gear.

Sure, let me just invalidate your entire argument by telling you they built tankettes and not tanks.


Not sure how the gently caress that negates the BT-2, M2 Light Tank, or the Lt.Vz.34 though. :shrug:

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

feedmegin posted:

The M2A1 (ten whole tanks!) wasn't delivered until 1936 and even then didn't have anything bigger than a machine gun until after the Spanish Civil War. There were a whole 50 ltvz built total, some of them delivered only in 1936. Russia was extremely well equipped for the early 30s tank wise, but most other countries? A whole bunch, literally thousands, of tankettes wasn't second class by comparison.

Yet. Again. All the new poo poo that started coming in around 1936 is exactly what obsoleted their previously pretty reasonable gear. Like I keep saying 'Italy was doing pretty well in 1935 but then their stuff started becoming obsolete' and you keep saying 'hey this tank that got introduced around and after then totally owned their poo poo' and I'm not disagreeing?!

So numbers is what we're going by? Alright.

What's the specific criteria you're setting down on this? Because the Italians, as far as I can tell, may have only gotten about 500-600 tankettes produced by 1935.

Meanwhile, the British have slightly less Carden-Lloyd tankettes, on top of any Light Tanks you want to add to that particular pile. Don't forget to add whatever Medium Tanks they produced by then.

The Japanese had about half as many tankettes as Italy by the end of 1935, but they carried turrets and better armament. The Type 89 I-Go production numbers can also be added to our total.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

feedmegin posted:

So Italy was a first rank military power is literally what you're saying here.

No, because their tanks were poo poo

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
Youre more than welcome to write about how they were a top military because of x, y, and z, but tankettes that can be penetrated by machine guns and lack of turrets, as tankettes generally do, kinda just works against them.

They had some good stuff in the navy, so I'm told, but what would imply good doctrine, tactics, and equipment for their forces? I'll try to expand my knowledge on their artillery, because I believe they had some decent designs when it came to mountainous terrain.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Raenir Salazar posted:

I understand that the Italian mountaineer troops were decently good, as was their special forces, their frogmen disabled a British cruiser in the Alexandria harbor did they not? The Italian navy's cipher also wasn't yet broken by the enigma and let the Italian navy act decently as a fleet in being that acted half decently as a check on the British naval forces in the Med until the Germans forced them to use the enigma and it screwed them.

Early in the war it did seem like the Italian navy was performing fairly well based on what I remember reading.

Italian Mountain Troops were good, but generally poorly used by high command. Their frogmen were, on the whole, revolutionary, and iirc, are considered pioneers of the field.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

FrangibleCover posted:

What were the Italians going to use proper tanks for?


Italian-French Border


Italian-Swiss Border


Italian-Austrian-Yugoslav Border triple point

Of course they had poo poo tanks, should we bash Uzbek Submarines next? Meanwhile in 1935-36 the CR.32 was doing so well in Spain that it broke the brains of the Italian Air Force and they ordered another biplane fighter in 1938. The Navy were building the Littorio class battleships which were probably the best battlewagons in the world when the first one was launched and nigh obsolescent when the third one was commissioned. Italy was a first tier military in 1935 that failed to keep up into 1940 when they actually needed it.

Also the Brixia entered service in 1935. It was definitely innovative but I'm prepared to accept a difference of opinion as to whether it was good.

I'm glad to find out that there is no flat terrain anywhere in those areas, or their rear areas, or that tanks can't be used in any other terrain aside from flat ground. My point was that the tankettes they had were poo poo, and compensated with high numbers to promote the idea that Italy was a war-winning nation, despite having no basis for it. The CR.32, good for 1935, sure, but it was a biplane fighter that attracted the same ideals of manoeuverability over speed and armor as the Japanese, which was immediately ditched for monoplanes. What made the infantry so good? The brixia itself wasn't that fantastic, mostly because the round it launched lacked explosive weight and underperformed.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
The Carcano is also the only major rifle design to reach large scale production numbers of all the major nations that had a hole in the magazine well for the clip to drop out of. As a nation that fought in the desert. And we've already spoken about the machine guns with oilers attached that were hosed immediately.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Ice Fist posted:

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > The Inevitable Milhist Thread: Italy, the Bad Gun Boot

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
Isn't that just the plot to DOOM?

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Cyrano4747 posted:

Maybe six months back I saw (on two desperate days, so I’m pretty sure I wasn’t mistaken or hallucinating” a US Marine walking around near the DC barracks in uniform with an WW2 German armband/jacket cuff tattoo. You know the strip of fabric that would say GroßDeutschland or SS Wiking or whatever. I couldn’t get close enough to see what it said and I was too shocked to snap a pic, but it was pretty unmistakable. I’m hoping he was just an idiot who got 2nd Marines or whatever put on his arm in that style because he saw in a pic or something but yeah


Then there’s that time soldiers in Afghanistan posed for pictures with an SS flag next to an American flag and tried to say later thr SS stood for “scout sniper.”

They are called MPs and, while similar to Nazis, it has yet to be confirmed if they are actually related.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Taerkar posted:

That would also be a Soviet Army post the rearmament and rebuilding that was just starting during Barbarossa as well as intact defensive lines (Either the original line or in Poland depending on what alt-history you're going with). So T-34Ms or maybe even T-44s. Likely a good number of SVT-40s and lots of intel on what everyone else is up to.

Russia wouldn't get any support from the Allies, and the divide between East and West would likely be even greater.

A short list of changes include:

-North Africa is conquered by the Germans, or at the very least many more battles take place on the blistering sands.
-While the Tiger tank would likely be developed, built, and sent to the desert, the Panther tank never materializes.
-Certain Soviet technological developments fail to occur: the KV-1s are built in greater numbers, but the IS series likely wouldn't materialize. Similarly, planes like the La-5, may also not show up.
-Populations in the baltics and ukraine endure more time under Soviet oppression; how will this affect them?
-More effort placed on anti-shipping from the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine, as the lack of arctic convoys frees up more ships for duties elsewhere.
-The Battle of Britain changes entirely, with more Luftwaffe aircraft and personnel based in northern France, similarly with North Africa.
-Japan's border with Russia becomes a wild card. Are more units sent to it? Less? Or do things stay the way they were in "our timeline"?
-Potentially no G43/K43 series of guns, no STG44, not until M1 Garands and Thompsons arrive in Germany via capture.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
Brucie Bonus:

The lack of aggression on the German/Soviet border allows countries like Hungary and Romania to continue restructuring their forces. Will the added training times improve their odds at dealing with the Soviets when the time comes? :shrug:

Italy would likely perform better in North Africa, if only because they would have more men and materiel to bring down there.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
Is this where we close the thread and start anew?

If not, excited about the next 400 pages before we arbitrarily start over.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
Heated propellant fires further because of higher pressures, similar to how tires lose pressure in cold weather because the molecules condense.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Vorkosigan posted:

Well, birthday gift just arrived...




Its a good book, there's a second on in the "series" though.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry
WW2 Data

Back from a small hiatus, its more German containers! We get to see a rather descriptive passage of the AB 250-1 container, as well as an interesting look at the mechanisms for the AB 70-3's deployment. There's also a cluster munition that is deemed unsafe for landing and should always be dropped or jettisoned before returning home. Everything else and more at the blog!

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

zoux posted:

Also is that dogfighting airbrake maneuver even possible in a Dauntless? Or any plane at all.

At the end of the trailer? Just looks like he stalls himself out, with the help of the airbrakes. Doesn't look like he had a lot of energy to begin with, but Hollywood movie magic is harder to discern when trailer clips are so short.


So, that maneuver specifically, yes, but its not "flip a switch and immediately lose all speed", he just kills the throttle.

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Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Geisladisk posted:

force application specialist

Those are jedi

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