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FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Nessus posted:

The question is if elephantry could have broken through the pike wall.

are we talkin' about, like, elephant-sized pikes?

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FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


I wonder how many times the Romans set a hog on fire and it turned around instead of running at the enemy

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


and the HMS Angry Scotsman

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


One use of PT boats I'm familiar with was in the Battle of Surigao Strait, where dozens of PTs engaged the Japanese force heading for the strait for a couple hours before the battle proper. They scored no hits and two of them were lost, but their radio reports gave the American commander the exact composition of the enemy forces heading his way.

Given the quality of American torpedoes for the first 3/4 of the war, it's probably not fair to judge the effectiveness of any unit firing them

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


shoot the German in the face, not the helmet, got it

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


zoux posted:

Would you guys be in favor of a modern Germany-style ban on Nazi iconography or does that go too far (the fact that SCOTUS would overturn it aside).

A state or Federal ban on that wouldn't get past even a liberal Supreme Court, but the military could ban the poo poo out of it if they wanted

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


xthetenth posted:

Weight and drag are a drag, and remote turrets eventually got good. Even before missiles, planes like the featherweight B-36s show a decided trend towards being able to go higher and faster being a higher priority than any defensive guns other than rearwards. Part of that is making it harder for interceptors to make an intercept happen, part is that at higher speeds, closing shots become incredibly hard.

Plus interceptors eventually got missiles and were joined by SAMs and good luck shooting down incoming missiles with your gun turret

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


SeanBeansShako posted:

Here is a question, if you got paid for it would you totally donate your urine to make historically correct materiel's?

or is this too weird to debate even for us.

If they feed me the liquid bread diet, they can have the resulting urine.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


LingcodKilla posted:

Second best next to the navy uniform hoooooooyah!

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


FrangibleCover posted:

One hundred and thirty thousand shaft horsepower of steam turbine and they can't find enough spare steam to get the creases out of their trousers?

More like being commanders of the biggest navy in history means you've reached the career point where you don't have to give a gently caress about it.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


bewbies posted:



My weapon of choice is the Hind/Frogfoot rocket launcher welded on the back of a Toyota.

It's a MLRT

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Phanatic posted:

That's some...interesting math.

quote:

1.5 tons

quote:

twice the size of a human

Only in :911:

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


xthetenth posted:

Another really good conversion was the USS Sable and Wolverine, which were paddle wheel ships for the great lakes that got turned into training aircraft carriers.

I didn't know about the paddlewheel aircraft carriers until a couple years ago but they are cool as hell. They had no hangar deck to keep planes aboard, so every morning they'd chug out onto Lake Michigan for pilots to learn carrier landing. They qualified 35,000 pilots during the war.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Anytime I see something weird like that on a battleship I assume it was probably due to some Washington Naval Treaty loophole.

https://twitter.com/madpadre1/status/1177404522806808576

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Cyrano4747 posted:

Another data point on the bomber altitude thing is the wing area. Big rear end wings help a lot with climbing up to altitude, especially in the pre-jet era.

The Boeing Model 299 (which eventually became the B-17) was also faster than almost any fighter plane in 1935.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Radio comms between the pilots of several Huey gunships covering a troop extraction in Vietnam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuuDWd8SL7A

Full audio: https://soundcloud.com/andrew-garrison/task-force-alpha-full-audio

From: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/41ed1p/i_found_a_47_year_old_recording_of_myself_nearly/

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


I've read it was more like 20-50 civilian casualties (of course casualty doesn't mean dead) in Honolulu from US Navy AA shells and fragments falling on the city. This was all officially pinned on Japanese pilots strafing the city, but those guys weren't looking for anything that wasn't battleship shaped. Had the third strike not been called off, though, I imagine it might have killed some civilians (targeting the fuel depots).

FuturePastNow fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Sep 30, 2019

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


everydayfalls posted:

This actually brings a story my grandmother told of that day into perspective. Her father worked in the harbor and had just gotten off shift when the attack came in. The way she told it he crawled under cars to prevent getting strafed trying to get back. There was never any evidence of the Japanese doing that so I didn’t understand what was going on, but trying not to catch some shrapnel seems like a good reason to be under the cars.

They were definitely strafing the ships and the base to suppress antiaircraft fire, and to do as much damage as they could. I'm sure it was complete chaos in and around Pearl Harbor.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Geisladisk posted:

There's also the fact that statistically, most pilots would not manage to rack up enough combat time to actually develop such a feel for their ammo load - That requires you to take part in a couple dozen engagements, which most pilots didn't manage to do.

Yeah I was gonna say- most pilots in most engagements weren't going to be shooting long enough to run the guns dry. That's the sort of thing you read about in stories about shooting down six planes in one battle and running out of ammo chasing the seventh.

But I imagine this was more likely over the Eastern Front or near the end of the war when allied planes were just strafing the rubble for good measure.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


We know in hindsight that the Nazis and Japanese were never ever going to pull off an invasion of North America. But I agree with Nebakanezzer, Americans in 1940-41 saw a world that was on fire and anything was possible. Especially after France fell, I think. And you get your news from newspaper headlines, a newsreel that runs before the movie, and every once in a while the President comes on the radio.

Imagine how that must have felt. You're Joe Average in the midweat, what do you know about France? You know people go sit in cafes by the Eiffel Tower. You know the women are pretty and they have a sexy accent. And you know they held the loving line for four and half bloody years the last time Germany invaded. If you got your news from the newsreels, you might have seen "France invaded!" and "France falls!" back to back. Or at least it must have felt that way. Then the British Prime Minister is giving speeches that sound like he expects they'll be invaded any minute now.

Every week there's news and for a year or so, every week that news was bad. Even if you're across the ocean from that news, that's still traumatic. And then, one day, you wake up and the US Pacific fleet has been annihilated.

FuturePastNow fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Oct 11, 2019

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Nebakenezzer posted:

I read that for a second as 'F-4 Phantom II' and then got irrationally angry at USN aircraft nomenclature

I was sad when the Tomcat got canceled in part because I hoped they'd circle the numbering scheme back around to F14F

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


HEY GUNS posted:

i have also seen a relatively small gun from some minor italian statelet cast with the motto GOD HAS PUT INTO MY POWER ALL THAT I TOUCH, which i always liked

If that's not the ultimate slogan for artillery, then I don't know what is.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Here's a ship I just made in the designer:



That's a Fletcher-class hull with three 11-inch turrets. I fully intend to let players make ridiculous ships.

ah the USS Vasa

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


So what I'm hearing is that if you're a terrorist and you manage to steal a B61, you pry out the plutonium and uranium and sell those to Iran and sell the electronic parts of the bomb to a Russian

then take your new wad of cash and send some guys to pilot school

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Phanatic posted:

the peanut butter (or jalapeño cheese which really kicks the peanut butter’s rear end)

my biggest takeaway from MRE eating Steve is a MRE peanut butter packet will outlive us all

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Nebakenezzer posted:

The fish thing is interesting, though capitalism and communism were shoulder to shoulder when it came to wasteful extraction, and in a non-trival sense it is all the fault of the UN

So the UN drew up its first law of the sea, and either due to lobbying, food insecurity in the '40s, or really dumb ideas about fishing, established that beyond a three mile territorial limit everybody was "allowed to fish surplus fish stocks" with no restriction. Fish stocks were "surplus" if there was any fish. This was bad.

What's worse is by the mid 1950s,large factory trawlers became a thing, and Europe and the Soviet Union began building poo poo tons of them. Europe also started heavily subsidizing both trawler building and fishermen. So from around 1955-1970 was peak fish, as ocean fleets went around the world fishing stocks to collapse. (People who managed to avoid this were Iceland and South American nations, who had the foresight to unilaterally declare their fishing grounds theirs.) While lots of this fish ended up as food, there's other uses for fish too, namely as fertilizer and fishmeal for feedstock. Egregiously gross example: in the 1950s, Newfoundland was apparently hunting Mike whales so they could be reduced to feed for mink farms

1970 saw, once the damage was done, a revising of the UN rules, establishing a 200 mile territorial limit. This fit most fishing grounds though not Canada's most important one. But here's where we get to a whole new level of dumbassery: America and Canada then started doing the exact same thing that the foreign fishing fleets had done: massively subsidize offshore fishing fleets. In essence now the strip mining had become domestic. Without proper fisheries science to say what was sustainable and what was not, there was no way to judge what a sustainable catch was, and that was set by politicians anyway

https://psmag.com/social-justice/the-senseless-environment-crime-of-the-20th-century-russia-whaling-67774

Not just fish, either.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


I have an extremely dim memory of the Challenger explosion. I'm not sure how much of that memory is actually still from 1986, though. The next "world event" I remember is probably the fall of the Soviet Union.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


I was in elementary school during the first Gulf War and I remember us all being made to write letters to The Troops.

I most likely drew fighter jets on mine.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Cessna posted:

I know this may sound a bit silly and maudlin, but we really appreciated those letters.

We got mail from home about every other or every third day. Some guys didn't have a lot of family to write to them, so the platoon sergeants made sure those guys got extra "little kid letters."

We didn't always have the time or opportunity to write back, but it was always nice to get a message from the real world. Just knowing that there were people going about their lives, going to school, made for a nice break from sweating and training.

I know the school got a nice letter back from the unit they were all sent to. It's probably still framed in the display cabinet in the hallway outside the office. I wish I could remember any more details than that.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Wargames sound boring.

Now, what would happen if someone fired a hundred anti-ship missiles at an aircraft carrier? I bet that wouldn't be boring.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


bewbies posted:

I think its a pretty questionable assumption that hostilities would cease just because PGM magazines are depleted.

Most European countries at the start of WWI were sitting on stockpiles of a few 100k artillery shells, then the war began and they were firing 30k a day.

life finds a way

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Cessna posted:

The US Civil War? Quite a bit.



If you're an unarmored steamship and you get jumped by an ironclad, I imagine trying to ram it is your best bet. Either that or running, but a side or paddle wheeler probably wasn't going to outrun anything.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Cessna posted:

This is spot-on.

Here's a photo of the "Niebelungwerke" (fans of opera will recognize the reference) where they built medium tanks and later the Porsche Tigers which were made into Elefants/Ferdinands:



Note that there's no production line. They'd just assemble those things in place, moving in huge armor plates and suspension components with a single overhead crane.


Chrysler plant, for comparison:

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


How well could a pilot bail out of a P-39 with that side door?

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


LostCosmonaut posted:

To expand:

Exocet: weighs 670 kilos, top speed of Mach ~0.9, has a 165 kilo warhead



Kh-22: weighs 5,800 kilos, top speed of Mach 4.6, 1,000 kilo warhead (optionally several hundred kilotons)


Two Exocets couldn't even sink a frigate

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2016/03/27/mothballing-the-us-navy-after-wwii-pt-1/

https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2016/03/27/mothballing-the-us-navy-after-wwii-pt-2/

A good article (or at least full of good photos) about how the US Navy mothballed thousands of ships after the war, how they were prepared and protected for long-term storage and the different readiness categories.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


People still train at mounted archery, too. There are competitions!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt7Gs2EIR-E

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


oystertoadfish posted:

some science googling pulled up two hypotheses for why we evolved color vision in this article:

https://evolution-outreach.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1007/s12052-008-0088-x


the implication would be that we need the extra green we have to accomplish one of these goals

on a related note, scientists think they've discovered the exact seven mutations that transformed our UV-sensitive proto-cone into the blue one. they've mutated the one to the other in both directions. that's crazy

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270479/


edit: to bring this back around to military history, there was a camouflage color that may have made ships more obvious due to the Purkinje effect:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountbatten_pink




I've heard that when the USAF was testing the first real stealth aircraft in the late 70s and early 80s, they discovered that a similar color was the optimal shade to paint an aircraft for invisibility against he night sky. And then painted them black anyway.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


SimonCat posted:

How did the US Army in WWII conduct class room training and briefings. Powerpoint has become the default tool for sharing information in a group setting in the modern army. If I were to sit down to a company level brief about an upcoming mission or if the soldiers needed a class on cold weather operations, how would it have been presented?

It may sound weird, but we're so stuck on MS Office that it seems like the Army wouldn't function without it.





overhead and slide projectors, powerpoint is waaaaaaay older than computers

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FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


spiky butthole posted:

Ideally pilots are tiny people weighing 110lbs (not sure about American planes) so when you are dogfighting that extra kilo of fuel you can carry instead of body weight may mean you get home.

I've always thought that smaller people made better fighter pilots because your g-force tolerance improves with less distance between the brain and heart. Of course you need to be pretty fit, too.

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