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Alan Wake cannot create things, he can use Already Existing Things to tell stories.
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Oct 2, 2020 23:31
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Maybe there's something in the nightmare pages to say otherwise but i don't recall wake encountering agent nightingale before the darkness grabs him at the lake
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Oct 3, 2020 01:04
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It’s not that Alan Wake can’t make things up whole cloth but what he can’t do is write like a 5 year old and go “and then a giant dragon came out of nowhere and burned the Dark away and everyone lived happily ever after the end.” He must stick to a logical progression of events for the story being told. So does an FBI Agent Nightingale have to literally exist before Alan Wake decides to use that in his story? No. Does the reasoning for there being an FBI Agent Nightingale have to already exist before that story is written? Yes.
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Oct 3, 2020 01:11
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That doesn't really follow from the story either as I understood it though because nightengale shows up out of nowhere for no reason that is ever explained and then as soon as the writer wake is done with him in a "get story character wake from point a to b to c" way he's written out of the story by way of the dark presence. There isn't any logical reason for that plot line at all
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Oct 3, 2020 01:19
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I was using Nightingale’s existence as an example of what Alan Wake can and cannot do, not talking about his actual utility to the game. He is extremely underwritten and likely a vestige they couldn’t quite get rid of from a bigger and more expensive version of the game. If you want to expand outside the game a bit an obsessive and irrational FBI agent going AWOL to investigate the latest in a long line of mysterious disappearances and events all centered around a single lake in an otherwise quiet Pacific NW town only to be eventually maybe-but-probably-not-killed by his own misdirected obsession is extremely on point for a supernatural mystery-thriller. He might have already existed and he might not have but like the Clicker his existence fits in the story (if you squint for a while).
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Oct 3, 2020 01:32
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There's at least a lot in the AWE DLC implying that Alan Wake needed a hero and created things based off needing a hero. There's a strong implication that he created The Oldest House based off his own memories and possibly Jesse as well (which offers part of the reason why she may remember Zane.) Far more bluntly he seems to have manipulated Hartman being captured and then escaping and absolutely is implied to have created The Hiss.
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Oct 3, 2020 01:56
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Yeah this is well covered by hotline messages. I don't feel like transcribing but in one he monologues about how he's going to escape, and his only constraint seems to be staging situations such that people are propelled by their own motivation in the direction he needs. People have to make decisions that make sense to them, rather than showing the obvious will of a writer. But he's starting the story from a conclusion that he has absolute power to declare, his escape from the dark place, and working backward from it to create multiple colliding causes that make his escape a natural outcome. His metaphor is tributaries feeding into a river, everything following the path of least resistance. I only played Alan Wake once when it first released so maybe there's some clearly stated rule in there about inventing characters that I'm forgetting, but what I see in AWE tells me the only constraint to Alan's power is that the narrative he writes has to be good fiction. He explicitly describes creating the Hiss incantation, and I don't think that's meant to suggest he only gave the existing Hiss a cool evil poem.
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Oct 3, 2020 02:05
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Transient People posted:Hey guys, I'm having a weird technical issue and wass wondering if anyone might know of a way to fix it: I'm trying to fight the Anchor boss, but every time the fight starts and it winds up what I assume is its first attack, the game crashes. I looked for fixed and there were a bunch suggesting lowering resolution, turning off sounds, playing in compatibility mode and so on and so forth, bubt none of them really worked. Is there something else I'm missing that I could try? Would really like to not leave this boss unfinished. Turn off the volume in game and/or turn around when it does its attack. Edit: I see this is from the 1st. You probably found a fix by now.
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Oct 3, 2020 02:05
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acksplode posted:Yeah this is well covered by hotline messages. I don't feel like transcribing but in one he monologues about how he's going to escape, and his only constraint seems to be staging situations such that people are propelled by their own motivation in the direction he needs. People have to make decisions that make sense to them, rather than showing the obvious will of a writer. But he's starting the story from a conclusion that he has absolute power to declare, his escape from the dark place, and working backward from it to create multiple colliding causes that make his escape a natural outcome. His metaphor is tributaries feeding into a river, everything following the path of least resistance. I only played Alan Wake once when it first released so maybe there's some clearly stated rule in there about inventing characters that I'm forgetting, but what I see in AWE tells me the only constraint to Alan's power is that the narrative he writes has to be good fiction. He explicitly describes creating the Hiss incantation, and I don't think that's meant to suggest he only gave the existing Hiss a cool evil poem. Honestly I am kind of curious how they tend to rectify this because Alan Wake is most likely directly responsible for hundreds of deaths so that he can escape a scary place which is like infinitely unsympathetic. Like honestly short of "Alan Wake created people from thin air" the damage he wrought trying to rescue himself seems inexcusable. And if he did create them from thin air that's still kind of horrifying and he made Jesse's life a living hell all for his own gain.
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Oct 3, 2020 02:26
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Plus it's a waste of a really good and promising setting and characters to retcon a huge chunk of the files throughout the base game and Foundation and replace all the carefully revealed origins and history with Alan Wake magicked it all up from scratch. Which is why people are hesitant to immediately subscribe to that and hope they don't commit to that direction in future releases.
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Oct 3, 2020 02:29
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haveblue posted:Plus it's a waste of a really good and promising setting and characters to retcon a huge chunk of the files throughout the base game and Foundation and replace all the carefully revealed origins and history with Alan Wake magicked it all up from scratch. Which is why people are hesitant to immediately subscribe to that and hope they don't commit to that direction in future releases. Yeah, that is my biggest problem with it. I really hope they just don't bother with that because Control absolutely does not need "simple and hard" explanations for its stuff because it's way more interesting as a collection of weird hosed up stuff in a weird hosed up universe.
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Oct 3, 2020 02:31
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Yeah I feel the same way. It seems less clever the more you think about it. Even if he did create those people from thin air, their suffering probably felt real to them! Maybe there's a heel turn coming for Alan in the next game or something.
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Oct 3, 2020 02:38
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Whether or not he created the world of Control Alan Wake turning into a semi-malevolent OOP via his interaction with the Dark Place and his all-consuming desire to create the perfect escape from it would be a pretty good twist I think.
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Oct 3, 2020 02:58
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i have a hard time believing that alan wake somehow magically created a multitude of extradimensional beings that by themselves hint at a much wider world (of which alan is only one part of given him being behind just a single door out of many in the motel), instead of the much more reasonable take that the dark poo poo is but one malevolent thing out there and the influence of it has turned him into yet another powerful as hell reality-bender who specializes in being cognizant of many events going on at one time and trying to compel parts of them to work towards some goal or another
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Oct 3, 2020 03:42
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You're all still thinking too small. Alan Wake created Remedy.
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Oct 3, 2020 03:52
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Dammit Alan, why'd you let the Max Payne IP go
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Oct 3, 2020 03:57
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itry posted:Turn off the volume in game and/or turn around when it does its attack. This is something I tried and it didn't work  bizarrely even while doing both these things it still crashes. I'm not sure why.
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Oct 3, 2020 04:05
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This video is good, but is much much better if you watch it in reverse.
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Oct 3, 2020 04:12
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Transient People posted:This is something I tried and it didn't work Hmm. That fixed it for me. Might be worth checking the windows event viewer after it happens. The only crashes for control I can find have something to do with d3d_rmdwin10_f.dll A quick look at mentions of that file led me to entries in pcgamingwiki about multi-monitors and non-standard resolution ratios, and what seems to be an unrelated crash. Have a look at your own event viewer and see if the issue is with that file. Might be worth looking further into it.
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Oct 3, 2020 13:32
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I need more Ahti and that motel.
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Oct 3, 2020 15:52
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Speaking of the motel the fact that there is a door there that leads to Wake/the Dark Place specifically is a good indication that he is somehow just aware of what was going on in Control, not that he created all of it.
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Oct 3, 2020 16:09
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thats true if youre writing a way to get rescued from the dark place surely you wouldnt give them a way to access to dark place to rescue you
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Oct 3, 2020 16:59
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A cool camera hack https://twitter.com/manfightdragon/status/1311657261601759233?s=21
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Oct 3, 2020 17:05
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that must be the ps4 version of this tool they have a bunch of other good mods worth looking at, i use dynahud, change outfits anywhere, slam up, and service weapon hotkeys
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Oct 3, 2020 17:12
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Alan Wake wrote himself into existence. No but seriously, I'm on board with him creating the hiss, but saying he created jesse and the fbc feels like a bit of a stretch.
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Oct 3, 2020 19:27
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Alan is the Hiss  Someone analyse the gibberish of the Hiss against the gibberish that is Alan's prose.
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Oct 3, 2020 19:51
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Funny how an Alan Wake game teased Jesse's origin story ("It will happen again in a town called Ordinary"), and that the plot of her origin seems like it was pulled out of a Stephen King novel. Also isn't there a document which sneakily confirms that Alan created the Max Payne universe? Just some fun stuff to think about 
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Oct 3, 2020 19:53
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There's someone else weird going on in AWE. The Thomas Zane in the intro cutscene claims to be a filmmaker and not a poet, and then Jesse corrects herself on that as well....but Zane was a poet in Alan Wake. That never gets address in the dlc, so something weird is going on beyond Alan messing with reality.
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Oct 3, 2020 20:14
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acksplode posted:Also isn't there a document which sneakily confirms that Alan created the Max Payne universe? I can't remember if there's more in the documents, but iirc one of Dylan's monologues talks about something like "in one universe, an author wrote stories about a cop, in another, the cop was real". e: yeah, the Mr. Door one. Captain Hygiene fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Oct 3, 2020 |
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Oct 3, 2020 20:25
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I'm willing to buy into Alan in a COOL WORLD sense of the author is actually tapping into something which exists and is real outside of himself even though the characters, world, etc. manifested in his mind like creativity giving birth to new thought, but as someone who knows almost nothing about AW, all the implications of this crap are terrible and make me dislike AW and sour me on CONTROL. It's like writing stories whose sole purpose is to exist in the Tommy Westphall universe. The only way I can conceive in past three minutes to do anything interesting with the premise that Alan is creating worlds willy nilly and that CONTROL is one of them is to have Jesse act in direct opposition to Alan in a tale about being subject to a cruel god who uses its creations as canon fodder in a pitiful, selfish battle and Jesse must fight to claim autonomy, and to stop Alan and his enemies permanently. Even so, that's a corrective measure to having made the CONTROL world a snowglobe in the hands of an autistic child.
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Oct 3, 2020 20:51
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SardonicTyrant posted:There's someone else weird going on in AWE. The Thomas Zane in the intro cutscene claims to be a filmmaker and not a poet, and then Jesse corrects herself on that as well....but Zane was a poet in Alan Wake. That never gets address in the dlc, so something weird is going on beyond Alan messing with reality. In the base game Langston also mentions that he was going to go see the latest Thomas Zane movie before the lockdown hit, IIRC.
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Oct 4, 2020 01:38
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It's not just awe dlc, in the ordinary awe section I think it is there's a recording of a therapy session where Jesse's therapist asks her about a poem she likes because Jesse credits it to Thomas Zane but the therapist could only find a director by that name, no poets
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Oct 4, 2020 01:53
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John Murdoch posted:In the base game Langston also mentions that he was going to go see the latest Thomas Zane movie before the lockdown hit, IIRC. I had to do a quick mental doubletake and remember when the game came out, lol
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Oct 4, 2020 01:57
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Captain Hygiene posted:I had to do a quick mental doubletake and remember when the game came out, lol Jesse clearing out the Hiss and then finding out there's been a Global Pandemic and they have to stay locked down after all 
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Oct 4, 2020 02:01
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exquisite tea posted:Control deals heavily in the Jungian concept of Synchronicity, the idea that two seemingly unrelated incidents can have a shared unconcious thought pattern between them. I feel that the same relationship exists between the events of Alan Wake and Control, where one did not bring about the existence of the other, but each draws an acausal parallelism between the two. I see, I don’t know why but I felt like one of the documents of hotline videos made it seem like Alan wrote it into existence. But yeah you’re probably right, there’s several documents that refer to group think and other ‘evolutions’ of Jungian concepts like urban legends, but I much prefer this explanation to like, Alan Wake wrote the Hiss into existence to set the events of Control in motion so he could free himself? But idk, there’s a lot more weird poo poo going on, like Blessed Pictures, Thomas Zane or whoever, and im sure Remedy would at least find a slightly more interesting way to write Alan Wake into the Control universe, or I guess as explicitly as he is in AWE. But re: Jung, when I first got the game I fell in love basically immediately, but especially when I read the first document you find which says ‘don’t bring any of the following into the bureau: number 2 pencils, smart phones, smart watches, anything ‘smart’, and anything considered to be an iconic representation of an archetypal concept, like rubber ducks or ketchup bottles, and that in addition to basically the entire first half hour or so of the game blew my mind. imhotep fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Oct 4, 2020 |
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Oct 4, 2020 03:22
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ImpAtom posted:Honestly the fact that the Alan Wake DLC kind of poo poo all over Control's everything in favor of making Alan Wake More Important sits pretty sourly with me. "Alan Wake exists in the same universe" is a lot different than "Alan Wake is the clear protagonist of that universe" I loved Alan Wake and was not a big fan of control, so finding this out is hilarious. Maybe I'll buy the alan wake DLC.
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Oct 4, 2020 03:32
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Jerusalem posted:Jesse clearing out the Hiss and then finding out there's been a Global Pandemic and they have to stay locked down after all Somehow probably Alan's fault yet again 
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Oct 4, 2020 06:01
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Captain Hygiene posted:Dammit Alan, why'd you let the Max Payne IP go The story of Alan Wake is also quite literally the story of Sam Lake and crew following up with a new game after writing the Max Payne series. It's something else that makes the "It diminishes Control to have Wake write it" comments kind of funny. Alan Wake was always, in part, the writers at Remedy. He always wrote Control. Go long enough and lots of artists, especially writers, get the urge to make art about making art. In large part Alan Wake is about making something, even outside the particular "David Lynch/Stephen King horror story" tale going on around it. cvnvcnv posted:but as someone who knows almost nothing about AW Alan Wake creating Jesse would be no different than Thomas Zane creating Wake in the first place, or the Old Gods of Asgard [Authors of such hit songs as Take Control from the game Control] influencing Wake *and* Jesse. What, did you think Wake was the only one with those powers? Or the only one with those powers writing about Jesse? gently caress no, Alan Wake the game is a giant incestuous mess of various authors coming together to defeat the darkness, and it's basically impossible to tell where it all begins and ends. Alan Wake is no more in the drivers seat than anyone else along the chain of causality. And as he says to someone in American Nightmare [Which may or may not have actually happened even in the game American Nightmare itself], does any of it matter really? You are doing the things you want to do for the reasons you have for doing them. That doesn't change. And lets go one better: Alan Wake is guided on his journey by Thomas Zane, who also shows up in Control. A thing that only becomes super clear in supplementary material around Alan Wake the game is this: Thomas Zane is super loving dead, and in order to balance out freeing the Dark Presence he gave himself over to the Bright Presence. Wake never meets Zane in the game, he's guided by the Bright Presence in Zane's body. Much like he first meets the Dark Presence in the body of Zane's girlfriend Barbara. This leads to the only true supernatural ability that Alan can use at will, the ability to increase the power of lights to fight the darkness. So Alan Wake is guided on his journey by a supernatural voice in his head that directs him to defeat an evil invading presence and protect the world, which gives him supernatural powers. Does that remind you of anyone? Does that mean that the Bright Presence driving Wake on is responsible for Control? tl:dr Don't worry about any of it. Mulva fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Oct 4, 2020 |
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Oct 4, 2020 06:08
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itry posted:Hmm. That fixed it for me. So I did some research on this...from the looks of it, it seems like what's failing is platform_rmdwin10_f.dll. I'm not sure what 'platform' would be, but this does confirm it's not directx I think. Need to look into it more deeply...wonder what the cause could be.
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Oct 4, 2020 09:03
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cvnvcnv posted:I'm willing to buy into Alan in a COOL WORLD sense of the author is actually tapping into something which exists and is real outside of himself even though the characters, world, etc. manifested in his mind like creativity giving birth to new thought, but as someone who knows almost nothing about AW, all the implications of this crap are terrible and make me dislike AW and sour me on CONTROL. It's like writing stories whose sole purpose is to exist in the Tommy Westphall universe. I mean one way to think of it and get the best of both without lessening the impact of Control is to imagine that Jesse, the FBC etc all exists in their own right... but they didn't exist in Alan's world, and he wrote them into existence there, bringing the two parallel words together.
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Oct 4, 2020 14:46
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