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UP AND ADAM posted:Company of Heroes Of course the future of RTS games was actually death. 
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Sep 6, 2019 03:45
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CoH 1 was neat. Every iteration of Homeworld was better 
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Sep 6, 2019 03:53
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Oh man, Homeworld 1& 2 are some of my all-time favorites. Here's hoping this turns out well. I love the flavor and feel of the Homeworld universe, especially the ancient mid-east inspirations; not many other games draw from that well. Here's a non-canonical map that I like that takes the theme and runs with it: 
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Sep 6, 2019 06:40
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Psycho Landlord posted:CoH 1 was neat. I honestly have never heard the "actually, Homeworld has bad gameplay" take before. That is a spicy one.
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Sep 6, 2019 07:27
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I mean he didn't say bad, he said bland. And I'd certainly describe it as simple. Yeah 3D lets you do some stuff but shooting range was incredibly small compared to map sizes so not even full movement could change much once shooting starts. And strike craft were immediately outclassed once missile destroyers were put on the field - two of them could clear our an entire supply caps' worth of fighters in no time at all. Simple can be fine though.
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Sep 6, 2019 07:43
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The guy who wrote something like "if it was bland, you were bad" is correct.
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Sep 6, 2019 07:46
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3d really wasn't important except in Single Player missions specifically designed to highlight it. The only meaningful use of it was sending ships to harass RCs from a unexpected direction against someone too dumb to build more than one probe.
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Sep 6, 2019 09:13
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Armour values mattered.
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Sep 6, 2019 09:19
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A greater durability and range disparity between ship roles might make the 3D-playspace more meaningful. If, for example, ion cannon frigates truly were almost literal glass cannons, but had a range that most other ships might spend 30 to 60 seconds crossing before they'd be in range, it would make sense to either try and flank them from somewhere that forward spotting and defense was absent, or use fast strike crafts to close the gap quickly. As it was, most fights in all homeworld games were just tailoring your capital ship blob to include just enough anti-strike craft power as your enemy made necessary, and then sending it at the enemy, because you'd always be in visual range of the enemy (and vice versa) before you would be in weapons range, and every ship in your blob would be able to engage in roughly the same five-second span.
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Sep 6, 2019 09:40
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Sounds like you wish the PDS/TFS mods were what Homeworld was day-one.
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Sep 6, 2019 13:53
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Mordja posted:When Company of Heroes came out I thought to myself, I thought, "Relic, you've done it again. This is the future of RTS games." Prophetic then since CoH didn't run on my computer at the time 
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Sep 6, 2019 14:29
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Okay I'll expand because I didn't expect the take to actually be controversial: HW1 has a really interesting Rock-Paper-Scissors balance thing going on right up until missile destroyers appear, at which point the game-play collapses to:Slashrat posted:tailoring your capital ship blob to include just enough anti-strike craft power as your enemy made necessary, and then sending it at the enemy, because you'd always be in visual range of the enemy (and vice versa) before you would be in weapons range, and every ship in your blob would be able to engage in roughly the same five-second span. HW1 is great because it's runs with a Total Annihilation style soft balance where projectiles and speed matter (for the period of the game where that matters, probably up to the mission where you go after the carrier that killed Kharak), HW2 throws that out of the window in favour of bland hard-counters.
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Sep 6, 2019 23:13
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"I didn't expect the take to be actually controversial," says guy who literally posted the words "hot take" in thread about games everyone was talking about fondly. Also HW2 arguably had more emphasis on maneuver than HW1 did at the high end due to the differences between Vaygr and Hiigarran capships, though most people wouldn't realize that if they solely played campaign because outmaneuvering 8 Vaygr Battlecruisers was a tall order at the best of times.
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Sep 6, 2019 23:48
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Remaster Cataclysm you loving pricks! It's objectively better than 2. I want HD ships covered in HD meat moss!
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Sep 6, 2019 23:52
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Find them the source code and they will Actual official statement
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Sep 6, 2019 23:55
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Few space RTS games take advantage of full 3D space. Homeworld does it best but I wish it was more intuitive to use different vectors and to make it easier to angle your ships and take advantage of different elevations. The best thing about Homeworld is the tactical map display. It gives you a better idea of battlefield orientation than the main map view. If there was a way to view all of the essential data and ship details on the tactical map I'd play the entire game from that view.
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Sep 7, 2019 00:02
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Well poo poo. I forgot about that one. That's such a shame.... From Cata, my favourite thing was how the beast units had the same voice lines, but garbled and warped. Normally, I'd chalk that up to laziness, but in the single player they dedicate like........ two cutscenes to explaining how the beast zombify your ships , and a major plot point was "the pilot is turned to circuitry and his mind gets re-used". So for me, the beast-ified pilots keeping their original voices actually made them more unsettling. Also, Beast Fleet Command being a mix between the Female intelligence officer and Somtaw fleet command. Seriously that game had some stellar audio direction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8wjBMxuhZc
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Sep 7, 2019 00:04
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Homeworld 1 was deeper from a 3D movement POV than Homeworld 2, IMO. The second one was more about engaging large fleets and the spectacle of that sort of management. The game actually flattened a lot of the playspace - just take a look at the campaign missions in Homeworld 2. Homeworld 1 had a lot of depth when it came to the movement because the firing solutions were actually calculated based on ballistics, unlike the random number generation of HW2. So it actually mattered which way your ships were pointing; for example, I could score hits with Assault Frigates on strike craft because I was manually making them turn using the move commands, to keep their turrets on target. If you were descending as you were firing the ship wouldn't have to turn as much because the strike craft would be chasing them down - so you could use the upwards deflection of the turret in addition to rotating the whole ship to make them fire on target. Other examples of the importance of proper movement was how you could issue attack-move commands, so for example you could tell your Destroyer to attack a target, then attack-move it straight backwards, getting it out of the enemy's range but still keeping the forward beam cannons on target. I also liked the very minor order-chaining you could do with Homeworld 1. So for example, tell your scouts to guard the Resource Controller, tell your Resource Controller to guard your Harvesters and tell your Harvesters to harvest. You'll end up with the RC and fighters equidistant from all the Harvesters so it's optimal for defense and construction. #hugeHWgeek UnknownTarget fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Sep 7, 2019 |
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Sep 7, 2019 00:09
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Slashrat posted:A greater durability and range disparity between ship roles might make the 3D-playspace more meaningful. Lemme just "well actually" from half court here: Heavy corvette walls supported by Support Frigates was the actual be all end all of strike fighter and frigate combat but that's hot hot multiplayer tactics and I've never actually tried it in the campaign, but presumably it works just as well. It can even chew up a missile destroyer without too much trouble.
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Sep 8, 2019 07:44
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Orv posted:Lemme just "well actually" from half court here: Heavy corvette walls supported by Support Frigates was the actual be all end all of strike fighter and frigate combat but that's hot hot multiplayer tactics and I've never actually tried it in the campaign, but presumably it works just as well. It can even chew up a missile destroyer without too much trouble. Am I misremembering or wasn't there a stance in Homeworld 1 that had strikecraft automatically retreat to a support ship to repair when they got low on health?
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Sep 8, 2019 07:49
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Rhjamiz posted:Am I misremembering or wasn't there a stance in Homeworld 1 that had strikecraft automatically retreat to a support ship to repair when they got low on health? Maybe? There was definitely a command that issued that order, go to the nearest carrier/support frig/mothership. You wanted to have the support frigates flying behind the corvette wall to heal it as it fought, in that particular strategy, so it wasn't necessary.
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Sep 8, 2019 07:56
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The Homeworld series is one of my favourite franchises of all time, with Homeworld 1 being the first game i remember giving me an actual emotional response to the story. I genuinely cared for my little people as I ferried them across the galaxy. Cataclysm was equally awesome, though I recall being somewhat frustrated at the enemy always keeping up with you in Hw2. Just started playing Deserts of Kharak, and though I haven't gotten very far yet I am very excited to hear the sporadic radio chatter set against the great wastes once more. And the music! Of the entire series. It still brings me the shivers. I will be keeping a very close eye on this, indeed. As for ship-design, ion frigates of all types will always hold a special place in my heart. I'm just sad I never got my hands on the collectors edition Banana-ship. One of the only game-collectors-items I've ever really wanted!
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Sep 8, 2019 08:35
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Orv posted:Maybe? There was definitely a command that issued that order, go to the nearest carrier/support frig/mothership. You wanted to have the support frigates flying behind the corvette wall to heal it as it fought, in that particular strategy, so it wasn't necessary. Could support frigates/corvettes use the healing beam on heavy corvettes? I know salvage corvettes didn’t technically count as strike craft and could be repaired like that (they also weren’t affected by gravwells) but I thought anything else had to dock. If so that’s interesting.
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Sep 8, 2019 18:31
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I think everything down to strike crafts could be healed by both repair corvettes and support frigates. Iirc the game din't put any actual limitations on what the repair beam worked on. In the case of strike crafts it was just sort of pointless because they'd be flitting out of the beam's range all the time.
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Sep 8, 2019 18:49
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Kibayasu posted:Could support frigates/corvettes use the healing beam on heavy corvettes? I know salvage corvettes didn’t technically count as strike craft and could be repaired like that (they also weren’t affected by gravwells) but I thought anything else had to dock. If so that’s interesting. Support frigates and corvettes can heal anything you tell them to - a popular multiplayer strategy was the triple corvette wall - light, heavy, and multi-gun corvettes backed up by support frigates. You couldn't easily bust through it.
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Sep 8, 2019 18:54
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One thing I had always wanted (and maybe did exist) was to be able to orient the angle of hyper space jump. So I could appear below a fleet with my ships pointed upwards ready to strike. In multiplayer in HW2 I did do a jump with some Higarran dreadnoughts against the Vaghyr, appeared above them and was able to take out their dreadnoughts because I was able to bring my turret weapons to bear quicker than their front firing ones, it would have been cooler though if I could have came out of warp already oriented correctly though.
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Sep 9, 2019 02:34
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Alchenar posted:Okay I'll expand because I didn't expect the take to actually be controversial No, I agree - it's been a while since I played any Homeworld game but the nuts-and-bolts combat mechanics always seemed pretty shallow at heart.
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Sep 9, 2019 03:17
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Homeworld questions: Does Deserts of Kharak of any kind of skirmish mode with AI? And does the newish re-release of Cataclysm on GOG work good on Windows 10? Bonus points if it works in Ultrawide.
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Sep 9, 2019 15:40
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Yes to the first one, I assume yes to the second one except it almost certainly doesn't do ultrawide.
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Sep 9, 2019 15:43
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Mordja posted:Yes to the first one, I assume yes to the second one except it almost certainly doesn't do ultrawide. Sounds great, thank you! I've heard that there is a must-play community patch for Homeworld 1 Remastered? Is that on the Steam workshop or on a Nexus/Moddb somewhere? Is there also a similar patch for HW2:R?
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Sep 9, 2019 16:01
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chaosapiant posted:Sounds great, thank you! I've heard that there is a must-play community patch for Homeworld 1 Remastered? Is that on the Steam workshop or on a Nexus/Moddb somewhere? Is there also a similar patch for HW2:R? The Community Patch covers both games, iirc, and is up on the Steam Workshop. I think the only thing that are up on places like Moddb are stuff like the Homeworld Complex mod. Which is just batshit nuts with the amount of stuff they’ve added to the game and worth checking out in its own right because the guy behind it actually helped Gearbox on the remaster along side the Black Bird folks.
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Sep 9, 2019 16:05
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nine-gear crow posted:The Community Patch covers both games, iirc, and is up on the Steam Workshop. I think the only thing that are up on places like Moddb are stuff like the Homeworld Complex mod. Which is just batshit nuts with the amount of stuff they’ve added to the game and worth checking out in its own right because the guy behind it actually helped Gearbox on the remaster along side the Black Bird folks. Noted! I'll look into it. Homeworld is one of those games that I played a bit of when it came out and went "whoa!" and then got sidetracked on other poo poo. I've had the remaster in my library since it came out but never really got into it.
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Sep 9, 2019 16:14
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chaosapiant posted:Sounds great, thank you! I've heard that there is a must-play community patch for Homeworld 1 Remastered? Is that on the Steam workshop or on a Nexus/Moddb somewhere? Is there also a similar patch for HW2:R? The community mod is called 2.3 on Steam, but you have to be using the beta 2.205 patch for it to work. I had to go looking to find out how to get it: 1. Go to Game-Library 2. Rightclick on HW Remastered Game Name 3. Click on Properties 4. Go to the Betas tab, and type 'ilovehomeworld' in the lower box 5. Click on "Check Code" 6. Chose 'patch_preview' (You may need to restart Steam to see the actual item in the upper drop-down list) 7. Play HW Remastered also includes the original games if you want to play them as they were. Some mods are also only for the originals, such as the ridiculous Chinese anime mod, Fairy Empire. Mordja fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Sep 9, 2019 |
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Sep 9, 2019 16:22
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When I dicked a little with Homeworld Remastered a couple years ago, I remember also trying the original to compare and far far preferred the original's UI. Did they ever patch HW:R to use the old UI? And wtf did they change it to begin with?
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Sep 9, 2019 16:24
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iirc the remastered versions both use the homeworld 2 engine as the base, so HW1 inherited the HW2 UI for lack of any attempt to recreate the HW1 interface in HW2 I think
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Sep 9, 2019 16:40
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I’m probably in the minority here but I actually preferred the Homeworld 2 UI over the original, so I was fine with them backporting it to Homeworld 1 out of convenience/
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Sep 9, 2019 16:42
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nine-gear crow posted:I’m probably in the minority here but I actually preferred the Homeworld 2 UI over the original, so I was fine with them backporting it to Homeworld 1 out of convenience/ It's not a bad UI by any means. I just prefer the way HW 1's UI stays out of the way.
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Sep 9, 2019 16:45
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FX:Galaxy is another mod worth checking out as well. Though it doesn't overhaul the gameplay as much as Complex does outside of some tweaking here and there, what it does do is add in the Kadeshi, Turanic Raiders, Bentusi and Progenitors as fully playable, fleshed-out factions. So if you ever wanted to live out your dreams as a Space Pirate or bringing Sajuuk to bear on...everyone; you can now.
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Sep 9, 2019 16:50
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Slashrat posted:iirc the remastered versions both use the homeworld 2 engine as the base, so HW1 inherited the HW2 UI for lack of any attempt to recreate the HW1 interface in HW2 I think Nah, HWRM uses its own UI, not HW2's.
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Sep 9, 2019 17:01
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I vaguely recall either one of the Homeworld games, or a mod, having a "first person" mode so you can see the battles from inside a ship. Is/was that ever a thing or am I not remembering correctly?
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Sep 9, 2019 17:01
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