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Who is the first women's champion? This poll is closed. |
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| Riho |
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89 | 51.15% |
| Nyla |
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70 | 40.23% |
| Someone else |
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15 | 8.62% |
| Total: | 174 votes | ||
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Djarum posted:You don't build your company around a guy in his mid 30s and hope for a 3-6 year run. For example they started grooming Flair for the title when he was... 28. Flair effectively carried JCP, the NWA and later WCW for nearly 30 years. That is when and why you build your company around someone. If you don't understand that then you don't understand the basic fundamentals of running a promotion. You don't understand the fundamentals. Bringing up Sting is hilarious because the idiots in charge of WCW thought exactly how you did. "We better start building around this young handsome guy, the old guy is washed up." And Sting bombed badly when they tried. Kenny, Cody and Jon are already top guys. They are having hot runs. They don't need to be "groomed" they are there. So bringing up that Flair was groomed in his 20s is missing the point. They are where Flair was when he was on fire as a champion. By your logic he should have lost the belt because he was on fire and didn't need it. The belt isn't important if you keep it away from your top guys. But you are using Vince Russo logic here so why even take it seriously? If you have an incredibly prestigious title, sure you can keep it away from your biggest stars if you have great programs and want to build other guys. But if you have a new company and a new title you want your biggest stars competing for that belt. It tells the fans the belt is important and they are important. Otherwise you get poo poo like with Goldberg's reign where he lost all his steam because the top guys were off doing other things while he played second fiddle against midcarders. Giant Baba started All Japan when he was 34. Sure was a stupid move on his part. Someone should have told him he didn't understand the fundamentals. Imagine building a company around a guy you might only get 3-6 good years out of! Someone should have told Vince McMahon he didn't understand the fundamentals when he decided to elevate Savage in his mid 30s. Really short sighted on his part. Vince then learned a few years later he probably shouldn't have decided those guys were over the hill at 40. Because they still had another 3-6 years in them. But it's a good thing they put the WWWF title on Morales before he turned 30, otherwise they may have only gotten 3 good years with him on top! If you have the right stars at 25, you build around them at 25. If you have them at 35, you build around them at 35. And you always plan to build new stars because fans can get sick of a 30 year old (Morales) or a 45 year old (everyone in WCW.)
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Sep 1, 2019 07:27
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I'm still hyped from the show so I'm watching the Maki Ito (v Su Yung!) , Yuka, and BIG KAIJU matches that just ended before sleep.
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Sep 1, 2019 07:31
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cool of them to bring back goldenboy, he is a legend and he is extremely good at announcing but he is also massively busy and does not need this gig he's a gigantic mega-huge wrestling fan though so there's no way he's not loving every moment of this
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Sep 1, 2019 07:31
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Orange Cassidy doing a suicide dive with his hands in his pockets is probably the best thing I"ve ever seen in pro wrestling e: yes this is hyperbole but I enjoyed the hell out of it Intruder fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 07:33
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Cody is proof that a wrestler who seemed decent (WWE run) to middling (NJPW run) might have just be trying to fit a square peg into a round hole when it comes to the style of a company. Given the freedom to wrestle the kind of match with the kind of build that he wants, he's dynamite. I never thought I'd see he show where he had the better match over Kenny Omega.
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Sep 1, 2019 07:36
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Charles Gnarwin posted:Cody is proof that a wrestler who seemed decent (WWE run) to middling (NJPW run) might have just be trying to fit a square peg into a round hole when it comes to the style of a company. Given the freedom to wrestle the kind of match with the kind of build that he wants, he's dynamite. I never thought I'd see he show where he had the better match over Kenny Omega. ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh to me Cody is proof that a dude who has a name and was wasted by WWE will get a lot bigger recognition than he deserves. I wasn't impressed by his match and felt he should have lost Compared to the Young Bucks who I see portrayed as egoists who took a pretty clean loss in an amazing match, granted I never believed the AAA titles would change hands on an AEW show Intruder fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 07:39
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Intruder posted:ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh AAA doesn't give two shits about their titles.
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Sep 1, 2019 07:42
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Intruder posted:Orange Cassidy doing a suicide dive with his hands in his pockets is probably the best thing I"ve ever seen in pro wrestling The monster reaction he got when the lights came back on made me grin like an idiot. If you'd told me back in his Chikara Gentlemen's Club days that he'd be one of the most talked-about names in wrestling seven years later, I'd have laughed in your face, but here we are.
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Sep 1, 2019 07:42
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When AEW and NJPW make up, we're going to get Aubrey reffing at the Tokyo Dome and it will rule.
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Sep 1, 2019 07:45
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Van Vilet post-shows are coming out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoQYsB1DfmE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flMSu5Ta07c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u19K_zddtdc fez_machine fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 07:47
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I think comparing wanting Mox to win the title to wanting Perry Saturn or TAKA to win the title is kinda bizarre. Even wen someone is your favourite you have expectations for them based on where they should be. Taichi is my favourite wrestler ever and I don't think he's ever going to sniff the world title and I obviously won't be sad if he finishes his career without winning it. On the other hand I'd be bummed if Naito never wins the IWGP title. Same thing with Mox in AQEW even if he's not my favourite.
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Sep 1, 2019 07:49
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Charles Gnarwin posted:Cody is proof that a wrestler who seemed decent (WWE run) to middling (NJPW run) might have just be trying to fit a square peg into a round hole when it comes to the style of a company. Given the freedom to wrestle the kind of match with the kind of build that he wants, he's dynamite. I never thought I'd see he show where he had the better match over Kenny Omega. Eh, I'd put an asterisk on "better match over Kenny Omega." PAC/Kenny was still better in terms of in-ring action and they still managed to contribute to a good story with Kenny even with no build due to the Mox match sudden imploding. Tho obviously if the more developed story of Cody/Spears took it ahead for you that's fair, but there's certainly extenuating circumstances at work.
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Sep 1, 2019 07:50
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Oh Snapple! posted:Eh, I'd put an asterisk on "better match over Kenny Omega." PAC/Kenny was still better in terms of in-ring action and they still managed to contribute to a good story with Kenny even with no build due to the Mox match sudden imploding. Tho obviously if the story of Cody/Spears took it ahead for you that's fair, but there's certainly extenuating circumstances at work. Dustin Rhodes/Cody was a better match than Kenny/Jericho.
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Sep 1, 2019 07:50
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Britt Baker is cool as hell and I can't pinpoint why I feel this way
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Sep 1, 2019 07:51
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MassRafTer posted:You don't understand the fundamentals. Bringing up Sting is hilarious because the idiots in charge of WCW thought exactly how you did. "We better start building around this young handsome guy, the old guy is washed up." And Sting bombed badly when they tried. Kenny, Cody and Jon are already top guys. They are having hot runs. They don't need to be "groomed" they are there. So bringing up that Flair was groomed in his 20s is missing the point. They are where Flair was when he was on fire as a champion. By your logic he should have lost the belt because he was on fire and didn't need it. Again you seem to be missing the absolute point here. You can have people like Omega, Moxley and Cody compete for and hell even win the loving title. You are right it is good for it. But none of those guys are who you should be building your long term future around. They are immensely valuable at this very moment because your younger talent is not established. The name of the game in today's industry is getting a long term star for your promotion and getting them young. New Japan and WWE both have done this to great success in the last 20 years. Flair was the prototype to this. If you think Sting wasn't a huge success you are insane.They weren't trying to make another star because Flair was washed up. Flair had been the top star in JCP for nearly a decade at that point, Flair needed a face counterpart and he was massively over with the fans. If Sting hadn't had the knee injury at the Clash his original push would have likely worked better instead of the tact to Lugar. By 91 Sting was over enough to give Flair a break from the title without harming ratings heavily like the previous attempts had gone. The problem was that WCW's management was inept after Sting so there was not another strong homegrown start until arguably DDP and later Goldberg. Listen you want to build your promotion around a bunch of older guys and ignore the future I got just the thing for you: WCW from 1994-2001. Let me know how that ended.
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Sep 1, 2019 07:53
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karmicknight posted:Dustin Rhodes/Cody was a better match than Kenny/Jericho. That's fair, got no problems agreeing with that one.
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Sep 1, 2019 07:55
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I have no idea if Mox is as hot as The Good Samurai thinks he is, but wrestling companies sure think he is. A guy like that, he needs to be in the mix. The AEW main events are going to be crowded so it's going to be interesting to see how they fit him in. They've got three guys in their primes who all deserve to be top guys. You can make arguments for and against each being the #1 guy.
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Sep 1, 2019 07:55
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Djarum posted:Again you seem to be missing the absolute point here. You can have people like Omega, Moxley and Cody compete for and hell even win the loving title. You are right it is good for it. But none of those guys are who you should be building your long term future around. They are immensely valuable at this very moment because your younger talent is not established. Don't you mean TNA's original run?
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Sep 1, 2019 07:55
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The problem with this reasoning is that it means a million year old dinosaur shouldn't win the belt, which I protest. (make your "but didn't jericho just win?" joke here.  )
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Sep 1, 2019 07:57
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You make fun, but what compelling reason is there for 48 year old Jericho to win the belt other than "People know his name"? Which differentiates AEW from WCW/TNA how exactly?
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Sep 1, 2019 07:59
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Djarum posted:Again you seem to be missing the absolute point here. You can have people like Omega, Moxley and Cody compete for and hell even win the loving title. You are right it is good for it. But none of those guys are who you should be building your long term future around. They are immensely valuable at this very moment because your younger talent is not established. If you think Sting was a huge success business wise you are just showing you know literally nothing about wrestling and building stars. Sting bombed horribly in the early 90s. They had to abandon ship on him and go back to Flair. WCW did lovely terrible business with Sting until the Monday Night Wars and even during that period Luger equalled him on PPV because Sting burned out quick. If you don't think they were trying to push Flair aside you literally don't know wrestling history. You just don't. It's so well known how WCW thought he was washed up and done the late 80s. You already showed that ignorance it by acting like Flair helped establish Steamboat after he got established. Steamboat and Flair came up and became stars as both rose. Steamboat didn't become a star because he beat Flair for the belt in 89, that run wasn't even their hottest against each other.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:00
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Intruder posted:You make fun, but what compelling reason is there for 48 year old Jericho to win the belt other than "People know his name"? Jericho is still good, can cut a good promo, and will make the second face champ look like loving Batman.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:01
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he's a multiple time world champion, has main evented wrestlemania a couple of times, was one of the hottest and most exciting aspects of new japan the last few years, he's probably the strongest talker in the company and is the closest thing to a household name in AEW, he can still put on exciting and compelling matches,
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Sep 1, 2019 08:02
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oh he's Lesnaar, except he left WWE (putting Heyman in there)' I get not putting the belt on Page, I don't get putting Page in the match if you're not going to put the belt on him
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Sep 1, 2019 08:04
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I was hoping to be able to watch this at my friend's Local Game Store while we did our fantasy football draft. But we weren't able to get it there. I'm not dropping 50$ for a PPV or watching it alone if I did. Hopefully we can figure something out. Shame, this all sounds awesome.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:06
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It's not fair to compare Jericho to any of the WWE washouts in TNA. It's a completely different scale of importance and relevance.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:06
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Kirios posted:It's not fair to compare Jericho to any of the WWE washouts in TNA. It's a completely different scale of importance and relevance. Those washouts included the likes of Sting, Flair, Hogan, Steiner, Angle and Booker so don't give me that
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Sep 1, 2019 08:07
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Djarum posted:Again you seem to be missing the absolute point here. You can have people like Omega, Moxley and Cody compete for and hell even win the loving title. You are right it is good for it. But none of those guys are who you should be building your long term future around. They are immensely valuable at this very moment because your younger talent is not established. Lmao how stupid are you? Let me just address a few fallacies in this post. 1. Mox, Kenny, and Cody are in their mid goddamn thirties. They're not Jericho or WCW Hogan or Savage or latter day Hall ages, not to mention they're fuckloads more versatile than any of the guys mentioned sans Jericho. 2. You seem to be under the impression that any of them winning the title precludes building up a guy like Page. The things aren't entirely mutually exclusive and the fact that you say "[x] doesn't need the title because of how big of a star they are" kind of proves that. You can mix and match title runs. It's not as binary as New Blood vs. Millionaire's Club. 3. Big stars winning a title and treating it as a big deal HELPS BOOST THE YOUNGER GUYS WHEN THEY WIN IT. That's something WWE sort of understands, they just don't hit the follow through. They do get the general idea though, and it's not wrong as long as it's done right. 4. You even say this in the post now that I reread it so what's your loving point even? We're not booking ten years out for fucks sake. We're talking about what AEW should do in the immediate future. They can still build up Page AND do this other stuff with the title.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:08
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MassRafTer posted:If you think Sting was a huge success business wise you are just showing you know literally nothing about wrestling and building stars. Sting bombed horribly in the early 90s. They had to abandon ship on him and go back to Flair. WCW did lovely terrible business with Sting until the Monday Night Wars and even during that period Luger equalled him on PPV because Sting burned out quick. Dude you are just going to argue over and over. You aren't even bothering to argue my points you are now trying to nitpick things about Flair and Sting from 30 years ago now. We are all aware of Jim Herd's stupidity, Sparticus and the rest. We can agree to disagree on things but I am not going to run in circles with you.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:09
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just thinking about moxley talking about how little he cared about winning the wwe title
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Sep 1, 2019 08:09
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Goddamn if this is how you all react after a good show then I'd hate to see you after a bad one.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:10
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I would put Jericho above everybody on that list except Hogan and Flair in terms of importance, and those two were 10 years older than Jericho when they went to TNA. Angle was the single biggest get TNA ever got and the only time when putting the title on him was 90% the right move (the other 10% accounts for his debut sidetracking Samoa Joe's push). Jericho is a dark horse G.O.A.T.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:12
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I wanted Hangman to win at the start of the main but as that match went on it became very apparent that he was not the right guy and Jericho absolutely was.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:13
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Djarum posted:Dude you are just going to argue over and over. You aren't even bothering to argue my points you are now trying to nitpick things about Flair and Sting from 30 years ago now. We are all aware of Jim Herd's stupidity, Sparticus and the rest. I already addressed your points. They were massively wrong. Any of those three guys is fine to build around. A 3-6 year run is great for wrestling. Using them to their potential now does not mean you cannot also mean you can't build other guys. Foochs just summed it all up anyway.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:13
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MassRafTer posted:I have no idea if Mox is as hot as The Good Samurai thinks he is, but wrestling companies sure think he is. A guy like that, he needs to be in the mix. The AEW main events are going to be crowded so it's going to be interesting to see how they fit him in. They've got three guys in their primes who all deserve to be top guys. You can make arguments for and against each being the #1 guy. For the record I just want to reiterate. I'm not saying unequivocally that Mox should be the top guy forever or that he's anything close to the only choice. Hell that's part of why I'm anxious. There's a glut of good options. What I am saying though is that I think he deserves a more legitimate run as a top guy than he got in the E and I hope AEW gives him that and keeps him at the very least in the mix for the top spot for the foreseeable future alongside the aforementioned good choices.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:13
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SamuraiFoochs posted:You even say this in the post now that I reread it so what's your loving point even? We're not booking ten years out for fucks sake. We're talking about what AEW should do in the immediate future. They can still build up Page AND do this other stuff with the title. The original post was about wanting to build the promotion around Moxley which I said wasn't a good idea long term instead of focusing on the younger talent like Page. All of the sudden it got turned into I don't think any one else deserves a run at the title and other wacky stuff.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:14
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I love the poo poo out of Jericho. I don't think he should be winning a promotion's top title in 2019 if they want to be taken seriously. That's my stand. Whatever Omega should have the belt e: Yeah I bitched about Page not winning. That's only because he was in the match My impression is that he's basically Sami Zayn I would LOVE Sami to get a belt Intruder fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 08:15
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Stone Pitbull 141 posted:Goddamn if this is how you all react after a good show then I'd hate to see you after a bad one. The only people left who watch American wrestling are ancient pedants who have been watching wrestling since 1992, this is why AEW and WWE threads are always bad
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Sep 1, 2019 08:15
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SamuraiFoochs posted:For the record I just want to reiterate. I'm not saying unequivocally that Mox should be the top guy forever or that he's anything close to the only choice. Hell that's part of why I'm anxious. There's a glut of good options. What I am saying though is that I think he deserves a more legitimate run as a top guy than he got in the E and I hope AEW gives him that and keeps him at the very least in the mix for the top spot for the foreseeable future alongside the aforementioned good choices. I don't think you are. I could just see a scenario where AEW could go two years not giving the belt to Mox and it being the right move. I could see that with any of those three guys. I wouldn't expect it, but who knows it's so hard to know how they will book their world title. But I think of the three Mox is probably the guy who should get it because the other two have more logical redemption arcs where they win it in the end.
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Sep 1, 2019 08:18
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MassRafTer posted:I already addressed your points. They were massively wrong. Any of those three guys is fine to build around. A 3-6 year run is great for wrestling. Using them to their potential now does not mean you cannot also mean you can't build other guys. Foochs just summed it all up anyway. You really didn't but whatever. Like I said I am not going to argue with you like I said. And on this I think I am going to stop posting in this subform as well. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 1, 2019 08:18
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