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There is one constructed playable instant speed removal that exiles in standard, scorching dragonfire. And even then you are holding up two mana to kill a one mana card that your opponent doesn't even have to let you use (and usually won't). The answer to catsac decks is generally going over the top of them (hi standard) without offering claim targets and answering their devils/priests with sweepers (ovens are the better target for removal than cats post-sb), Temur Rec has generally been a good answer to them unless things changed recently.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jun 1, 2020 |
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Jun 1, 2020 18:21
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kater posted:Really wish the companion change scaled with their mana cost or something instead of just making the 3 cost dudes ridiculously unplayable. I guess Lurrus and Zirda can find excuses but god Kaheera is dead. Huh misread the card all this time. Could of sworn I've done this exact thing. thespaceinvader posted:Doesn't work. Well no. Cat oven doesn't let you interact because it's an activation cost. If it was sorcery speed you still would not be able to interact with the oven. If it wasn't a cost then yes my point would stand instant speed or sorcery speed.
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Jun 1, 2020 18:22
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I wonder if Mire Triton, Binding of the Titans and Titan's Nest can be a deck now, at least in historic. Ulamog is a lot better when you can cheat on his cost anyway, and now you don't have to worry about him being stolen
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Jun 1, 2020 18:24
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aww yiss  still 3 more days but looking forward to the shakeup.Also Soul-Guide Lantern, Gemrazer, and Tymaret are all good answers to Cat oven, in addition to the above mentioned Leyline, Kaya. Gemrazer also fucks over temur rec. don't forget Kurunos 
ex post facho fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jun 1, 2020 |
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Jun 1, 2020 18:25
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If it was "Tap: destroy target creature you control, create a food token" you could fizzle it with any kind of instant speed removal on the cat because targeted abilities fizzle if every one of their targets is illegal when the ability resolves.
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Jun 1, 2020 18:25
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Ok so Temur Reclamation should be prrrrrrretty good right here right?
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Jun 1, 2020 18:31
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Sedisp posted:Well no. Cat oven doesn't let you interact because it's an activation cost. If it was sorcery speed you still would not be able to interact with the oven. If it wasn't a cost then yes my point would stand instant speed or sorcery speed. You would be able to exile the Cat at basically any other time though - any time you have priority, and particularly outside their turn, they wouldn't be able to activate the oven and you could eat the thing. I would mind the non-interactivity of it a lot less if it had limited times when it could activate instead of instant-speed. ex post facho posted:aww yiss Gemrazer is in every one of my green-based Mutate decks and it's honestly pretty rare that the smash effect isn't useful - and even when it's not reach and trample are p. great.
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Jun 1, 2020 18:36
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thespaceinvader posted:Instant speed exile removal doesn't do poo poo against a well baked cat. There's also Tym, Cling to Dust, Lantern, etc. You're at a disadvantage because of how the oven interaction works but it's not impossible.
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Jun 1, 2020 18:36
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Bust Rodd posted:Ok so Temur Reclamation should be prrrrrrretty good right here right? It's been pretty good regardless. In my experience, the hardest matchup for Reclamation is Orzhov Lurrus. Them not having such simple access to Lurrus might make it easier, but I maintain that these GY decks will still be pretty good in spite of that restriction, since they may just end up putting Lurrus in the maindeck anyway.
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Jun 1, 2020 18:48
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simic flash-ier simic decks probably come back if reclamation takes the top spot, and teferi control decks have some game against both of those, so maybe those come back
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Jun 1, 2020 18:58
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The cat should have come back tapped, like every other black creature that gets itself back ever (some can't block, instead, which is the same)
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Jun 1, 2020 19:23
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Looks like I can feel safe about crafting 3 more Angrath's Marauders
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Jun 1, 2020 19:28
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I don't think that companion change will be horrible. Playing Mono-Black Lurrus it was very uncommon that I actually brought him out on 3 anyways because I would make sure to do it at 4 so I could get Kaya's on him at the same time. I'm interested to see what happens.
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Jun 1, 2020 19:38
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SalTheBard posted:I don't think that companion change will be horrible. Playing Mono-Black Lurrus it was very uncommon that I actually brought him out on 3 anyways because I would make sure to do it at 4 so I could get Kaya's on him at the same time. I'm interested to see what happens. Priest sacs help with the mana too. I'm definitely going to put a 2nd Tymaret in my black Lurrus deck. You can respond to the food sac with his ability before the cat comes out of the yard. I think. Also Bust Rodd IDK what you're doing with Fiend Artisan that I'm not. My yard is almost always empty because I'm recurring stuff all the time after sacing it. Am I just playing the deck wrong? He's never useful other than to go get Tymaret or maybe a Priest. By the time I have the mana to do that their hand is empty so Rats and Fenlurkers don't help.
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Jun 1, 2020 19:51
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SalTheBard posted:I don't think that companion change will be horrible. Playing Mono-Black Lurrus it was very uncommon that I actually brought him out on 3 anyways because I would make sure to do it at 4 so I could get Kaya's on him at the same time. I'm interested to see what happens. If you are spending 3 mana on turn 3 to get him to your hand for turn 4 thats still a huge tempo loss
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Jun 1, 2020 19:58
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Sitting here thinking about Historic Mono-red Lurrus, I don't really see a way forward for that deck. Maindeck he's probably not a 4-of, and it's tough seeing playing 8 duals to cast a main-deck 2-of, no matter how good it is to roll him into a BTE into whatever else. Playing him out of the board is out. Maybe he finds a maindeck spot in decks that actually care about black or white mana, if they give us Helix or Charm or something.
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Jun 1, 2020 20:03
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Gemrazer slots into any Green deck and is really good vs Cat Oven because it blows up the oven and it has Trample so it don't give a gently caress about the lovely B creatures trying to chump it.
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Jun 1, 2020 20:32
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thanks for making jund sac the number 1 deck again, whiners :/
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Jun 1, 2020 20:36
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thespaceinvader posted:How many cards are there at the moment? 17L doesn't give a card count. Lone Goat posted:I'm cutting patatgia tiger before a single card you said  Pool, current deck draft
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Jun 1, 2020 20:45
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JakeP posted:If you are spending 3 mana on turn 3 to get him to your hand for turn 4 thats still a huge tempo loss Good point.
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Jun 1, 2020 21:34
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thinking about simic mutate, is there a reason to run umori? seems like a needless restriction that doesn't get you much when the CMC is now 7 instead of 4
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Jun 1, 2020 21:48
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in a lurrus deck i'd probably be looking to be paying the 3 on turn 4 alongside a 1-drop in order to play him and reanimate a 2 on 5
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Jun 1, 2020 21:48
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President Ark posted:in a lurrus deck i'd probably be looking to be paying the 3 on turn 4 alongside a 1-drop in order to play him and reanimate a 2 on 5 in mono-white lurrus auras, i tend to hold lurrus until i need him, so it's probably not a huge issue to use a down turn when my hand is close to empty to put lurrus into it if my hand's not empty i don't need or want lurrus on the board since i can't get him back
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Jun 1, 2020 21:55
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ex post facho posted:thinking about simic mutate, is there a reason to run umori? seems like a needless restriction that doesn't get you much when the CMC is now 7 instead of 4 The dimir mutate deck stopped using it even before the change was announced, so probably not. It seems like it's just too beneficial to have something like Mystical Dispute main deck.
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Jun 1, 2020 21:56
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Yeah, Umori was fairly marginal in a lot of mutate decks I was running it in, and keeping me from using one or two key instants was often a toss-up already. It won't be a huge loss. Kaheera on the other hand is a loss that makes me sad, becasue she's super fun, and taking a 3-mana turn to just get the chance to use her is bad, and running her maindeck just doesn't feel good or reliable enough. Ah well.
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Jun 1, 2020 22:05
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Relin posted:thanks for making jund sac the number 1 deck again, whiners :/ Agent player spotted
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Jun 1, 2020 22:22
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President Ark posted:in a lurrus deck i'd probably be looking to be paying the 3 on turn 4 alongside a 1-drop in order to play him and reanimate a 2 on 5 Based on my experience with mono white and mono black I would probably just wait to spend 6 mana on him all at once. Obviously that's not always the best play but for whatever reason I am terrified of being forced to pay that extra cost only to have my opponent force me to discard it. With mono black it's not as bad because I have ways of bringing him back but with mono white you're kinda hosed unless you're already way ahead. I'm starting to think about what others have said in terms of just running Lurrus as a 4-of in the main deck and not even bothering with the companion slot. Anyone else thinking about this?
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Jun 1, 2020 22:29
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Bust Rodd posted:Ok so Temur Reclamation should be prrrrrrretty good right here right? Probs the best deck in the format
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Jun 1, 2020 22:35
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ex post facho posted:thinking about simic mutate, is there a reason to run umori? seems like a needless restriction that doesn't get you much when the CMC is now 7 instead of 4 Hell no. Obosh decks are probably dead now as well, as they cant afford to take a tun off to get Obosh into hand. Gyruda is loving dumpstered. Be prepared to see main deck Lurrus now in decks that want him.
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Jun 1, 2020 22:35
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I really don't think giving up a turn or waiting until turn 6 to get Lurrus out is going to make any sense. The restrictions to use Lurrus as a companion obviously weren't restrictive enough to keep it from being very strong, but I think the balance is going to tip to the other side now, and you'd be better off playing some cards with 3+ cmc. And yeah, if you really want to keep Lurrus around, maindeck seems like the way to go.
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Jun 1, 2020 22:39
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Oh man, I just had the most soul crushing loss in draft. Attacking for lethal with Otter mutated to Starrix with +1/+1 + lifelink and Grimdancer with lifelink + menace. Opponent has Ferocious Tigorilla that I've Capture Sphered + Kaheera. Before blockers are assigned opponent plays Sudden Spinnerets to untap Tigorilla and then Raking Claws to give it double strike to block and take out Starrix (surviving itself). Next turn they top deck and play Quartzwood Crasher. Game over. Rhaegar fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Jun 1, 2020 |
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Jun 1, 2020 22:42
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Elephant Ambush posted:Based on my experience with mono white and mono black I would probably just wait to spend 6 mana on him all at once. Obviously that's not always the best play but for whatever reason I am terrified of being forced to pay that extra cost only to have my opponent force me to discard it. Lurrus and Kaheera are probably strong enough to run ~3 of in the right decks. Kaheera can really put decks that need an anthem effect over the top and Lurrus can still do some work in the Mono B or Mono W lists. Any deck I've played that runs Lurrus, you're not dropping him on turn 3 anyway; you're doing so when you have something in the grave to return right away and the mana open to do it (Dead Weight, Ghostform, whatever B cost small guy in the sac deck, etc). We'll see though. I don't foresee any new deck archetypes getting traction in Standard at the moment, but something might shake out that puts the 3 CMC companions to use. The other ones seem dead in the water beyond Yorion and maybe Keruga.
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Jun 1, 2020 22:44
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Eej posted:Agent player spotted
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Jun 1, 2020 22:55
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can the people who moaned about a lack of interaction in their games are happy now that Wilderness Rec decks are the undisputed best decks in Standard?
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Jun 1, 2020 22:59
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Where will nexus land after the ban? I had been following that deck that got tweeted out a while back but don’t have the nexuses and was waiting for the ban announcement to pull the trigger. Now I’m still gunshy....
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Jun 1, 2020 23:14
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sephiRoth IRA posted:Where will nexus land after the ban? I had been following that deck that got tweeted out a while back but don’t have the nexuses and was waiting for the ban announcement to pull the trigger. Now I’m still gunshy.... Mostly the same? Probably can hedge it's bets away from having to deal with lukka and fires and focus more on fixing its weak matchups. seizure later posted:can the people who moaned about a lack of interaction in their games are happy now that Wilderness Rec decks are the undisputed best decks in Standard? It's better than three different fires decks? And like. Going face will actually be useful now so aggro gets to actually be in the format. Sedisp fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Jun 1, 2020 |
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Jun 1, 2020 23:30
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Temur rec probably won't the best best deck in standard, it just lost its best matchup, and now all the aggro decks Yorion was keeping out are going to come back. Temur rec might be the best temporarily, but its still real bad against aggro and aggro is viable again.
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Jun 1, 2020 23:32
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sephiRoth IRA posted:Where will nexus land after the ban? I had been following that deck that got tweeted out a while back but don’t have the nexuses and was waiting for the ban announcement to pull the trigger. Now I’m still gunshy.... The main wincons in that deck are Uro and Sharknado so it's probably fine.
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Jun 1, 2020 23:34
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The three obvious decks that can exist are mono red, jund sacrifice, and temur rec. I imagine Jund Sacrifice has the best bad matchup out of those three so it will probably be the most dominant. Then there's Temur adventures which I guess is a real deck but I know nothing about its matchups. And surely some bant piles will still exist.
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Jun 1, 2020 23:43
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Aww I just realized that Dranith Magistrate just does nothing now
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Jun 1, 2020 23:50
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