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wolfman101
Feb 8, 2004

PCXL Fanboy

That feeling when you mill 60 cards from a rogues deck with a good Dance of the Manse.

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flatluigi
Apr 22, 2008

here come the planes


Ani posted:

There is a very solid Naya tokens deck with Toski and Clarion Spirit that, if not top tier, is pretty close. I've been having fun with it. Here is my list (stolen from CGB):

Companion
1 Jegantha, the Wellspring (IKO) 222

Deck
4 Cragcrown Pathway (ZNR) 261
4 Clarion Spirit (KHM) 6
4 Fabled Passage (M21) 246
4 Giant Killer (ELD) 14
4 Branchloft Pathway (ZNR) 258
4 Jaspera Sentinel (KHM) 178
4 Bonecrusher Giant (ELD) 115
3 Forest (KLR) 300
1 Shepherd of the Flock (ELD) 28
4 Lovestruck Beast (ELD) 165
4 Edgewall Innkeeper (ELD) 151
4 Showdown of the Skalds (KHM) 229
4 Needleverge Pathway (ZNR) 263
2 Plains (KLR) 288
1 Mountain (KLR) 298
4 Felidar Retreat (ZNR) 16
2 Toski, Bearer of Secrets (KHM) 197
2 Kabira Takedown (ZNR) 19
1 Evolving Wilds (M20) 246

not really feeling this list after trying it out on ladder. not enough resiliency for the slow decks and not enough speed for the faster ones

wolfman101
Feb 8, 2004

PCXL Fanboy

Just milled out an 80 card B/W Yorion control deck that had board wiped 5 of my creatures because they got greedy and cast Shark Typhoon which let me Yorion bounce 3 Tutelages and 2 Omen of the Sea while a Setessan Champion was on the board for another 60 card mill

MikeCrotch
Nov 5, 2011

I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese


BizarroAzrael posted:

Thats from using a tracker right? What do you use?

Untapped.gg but honestly I actually use a spreadsheet

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

Ask me about my calm and reasonable opinions on cycling!

I am in no way a zealot about cycling!

Cycling helmets are ABSOLUTE HARAM!


Azathoth posted:

I saw that video and once the new set hits and some people start brewing with Naya I'm probably going to craft something like this. It looks like a lot of fun to play.

It's fun but what's a good keep is very matchup dependent I've found.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

In Rodd we Bust





https://twitter.com/yoman_5/status/1378363758175776769?s=21

Elvis_Maximus
Oct 7, 2007

Relaxing AND Refreshing


Climbed through gold with my mostly built now BO1 mono green stompy deck. I'm pretty sure I can get significantly higher, but I don't have a ton of time for games unfortunately.

There is SO much crab mill in the ladder though, it's insane. I don't think I've lost to it yet, but it's such an insanely common deck, at least at my ranking. I feel like when I first started playing magic I went through a phase where I wanted to build a mill deck, like way back pre OG innistrad, but since then I don't really understand the fascination with them.

Cool if ya like it, but it just feels so ineffective whenever I come up against them. Maybe there's a god hand that wins by T4 or 5 though through disruption? In this case I just played my big troll boy and a beetle and just smashed every turn until they were forced to block with crabs and then dead.

That and the W lifegain deck have been easily the most prevalent "real" decks in the lower ranks. A splattering of kinda bad control decks, or at least control-ish decks that lose to big green boys, and the occasional mutate deck. The mutate deck messes me up real bad though, just not enough removal in the main 60.

Revins
Nov 2, 2007

the stars are strange and this isn't home


yeah I hate mill decks. they seem simple af to play though so I guess thats part of the appeal. it always feels like I'm just playing against a timer rather than interacting with their deck. I've rarely lost against them though at least

actually thinking about it I've never lost to crab mill which makes the commoness of the deck all the more puzzling

Lone Goat
Apr 16, 2003

When life gives you lemons, suplex those lemons.






Revins posted:

yeah I hate mill decks. they seem simple af to play though so I guess thats part of the appeal. it always feels like I'm just playing against a timer rather than interacting with their deck. I've rarely lost against them though at least

actually thinking about it I've never lost to crab mill which makes the commoness of the deck all the more puzzling

If you're talking about the Rogue mill deck, it's a very powerful deck that's NOT simple to play, that's probably why you keep beating it.

If it's a dedicated mill deck with crab and like Teferi's Tutelage then yeah that's just a bad deck.

Revins
Nov 2, 2007

the stars are strange and this isn't home


yeah just talking about the bog standard non rogue one I keep seeing.

i have a special hatred for rogue decks but thats because they are very effective and I think hating them unless you're the one playing the deck is normal

Revins fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Apr 8, 2021

Elvis_Maximus
Oct 7, 2007

Relaxing AND Refreshing


Revins posted:

yeah I hate mill decks. they seem simple af to play though so I guess thats part of the appeal. it always feels like I'm just playing against a timer rather than interacting with their deck. I've rarely lost against them though at least

actually thinking about it I've never lost to crab mill which makes the commoness of the deck all the more puzzling

Honestly I don't really hate mill decks. I love playing combo so far be it from me to throw rocks when in Modern I often play storm.

I just don't really get why crab mill is so common. It takes them like 10 turns to kill minimum, and until then they might counter a spell sure, but other than that they just seem to play walls.


I hear the rogue mill deck is super legit, but I don't know that I've run into it. I beat a deck that was running at least 2 copies of robber of the rich and that deck seemed ok. But they also had a ton of really inefficient cards so I don't think they were terrible effective (also they forgot gemrazor has reach and so I just kinda won the game at 8 life)

Ani
Jun 15, 2001
illum non populi fasces, non purpura regum / flexit et infidos agitans discordia fratres

flatluigi posted:

not really feeling this list after trying it out on ladder. not enough resiliency for the slow decks and not enough speed for the faster ones
I've had varying luck with the list myself. One thing that's hard is that I think I'm bad at playing this (or the similar Naya combo deck) - it's hard to figure out what side to play pathways on or what to fetch with a fabled passage, or to know when to play vs. hold a giant killer, or which cards to play off of showdown (or when to cast a showdown, etc).

little munchkin
Aug 15, 2010



Elvis_Maximus posted:

I just don't really get why crab mill is so common. It takes them like 10 turns to kill minimum, and until then they might counter a spell sure, but other than that they just seem to play walls.

There's a long history of bad/casual players being into mill decks for some reason. A good example is Glimpse The Unthinkable being a 40$ card for a while despite only seeing competitive play in a niche modern deck. Demand was huge because people just love milling 10 cards off their opponent and then losing.

My theory is it fulfills this fantasy of your opponent being a netdecking tryhard who you've outsmarted by circumventing the rules of the game, similar to the henka maneuver in sumo wrestling.

Elvis_Maximus
Oct 7, 2007

Relaxing AND Refreshing


little munchkin posted:

There's a long history of bad/casual players being into mill decks for some reason. A good example is Glimpse The Unthinkable being a 40$ card for a while despite only seeing competitive play in a niche modern deck. Demand was huge because people just love milling 10 cards off their opponent and then losing.

My theory is it fulfills this fantasy of your opponent being a netdecking tryhard who you've outsmarted by circumventing the rules of the game, similar to the henka maneuver in sumo wrestling.

I suppose that makes sense

Luckily it looks like Glimpse is back down around the $10 range. It being $40 was wild, especially since the real card that makes modern mill work is Archive Trap imo, and Archive trap is honestly just insanely fun to play with


Really wish WOTC would bring back traps, what a fun mechanic.

Revins
Nov 2, 2007

the stars are strange and this isn't home


as someone who only played a bit back in the mid-2000s and started on arena recently: how did the trap mechanic work?

Elvis_Maximus
Oct 7, 2007

Relaxing AND Refreshing


Revins posted:

as someone who only played a bit back in the mid-2000s and started on arena recently: how did the trap mechanic work?

They were really overcosted spells, for example Archive Trap is 3UU to remove the top 13 cards of your opponent's deck at instant speed.

However, they all had a "Trap" mechanic that when your opponent did something specific they would be free/reduced cost. The good ones however are all free or a single mana

For Archive Trap, this was search their library. Importantly, this was released in ZEN with the fast enemy fetches that you search your deck using. So if your hand had two archive traps in it: your opponent plays their fetch, eventually cracks it and you immediately dome them for 26 cards off the top for free.

It's INSANELY satisfying, even if Modern Mill is still not a "good" deck by the formats standards.

There was also Mindbreak Trap which was a "exile any target number of spells". If your opponent cast three or more spells that turn you just wipe the stack at the 3rd or later spell for free. Again, feels great! This one is really only useful as anti combo deck tech however, specifically storm where you can exile the storm spell PLUS all the copies

Edit: There were a bunch of other bad ones, but the others you might be interested in are Ravenous Trap, Ricochet Trap and Summoning Trap being pretty dang playable in some metas!

Elvis_Maximus fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Apr 8, 2021

Revins
Nov 2, 2007

the stars are strange and this isn't home



neat, ty for the comprehensive response

The Klowner
Apr 20, 2019

I see past the sham that is society, and I'm into some incredibly fucked up shit.

ah yes, the henka maneuver. Of course

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!



Honestly, my only loss to a mill deck recently was against a well played Rogues deck where I was mana starved and stuck on four mana with three 5 or 7 mana cards in hand.

My Gruul aggro trample deck usually ramps up pretty quick and other than that one game I haven't lost to a mill deck since I caught this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvt1-mBICTg and realized "hey, I can play an 80 card deck to gently caress with the mill guys" and started doing that.

little munchkin
Aug 15, 2010



The Klowner posted:

ah yes, the henka maneuver. Of course

for the uncultured, a henka is a sumo move where, instead of slamming directly into your opponent at the start, you just sidestep so the other guy rushes into nothing and loses his balance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5TXO9cqH_c

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



I don't think Archive Trap is that good an example of trap design since it's a card whose effect doesn't really care about the current gamestate. As long as your opponent searches their library at some point (which is basically inevitable in the formats its played in) it isn't really any different from if it just cost 0 mana in the first place. Something like Mindbreak Trap has a bit more play to it.

Azathoth
Apr 3, 2001

Blind.
Idiot.
God.



little munchkin posted:

There's a long history of bad/casual players being into mill decks for some reason. A good example is Glimpse The Unthinkable being a 40$ card for a while despite only seeing competitive play in a niche modern deck. Demand was huge because people just love milling 10 cards off their opponent and then losing.

My theory is it fulfills this fantasy of your opponent being a netdecking tryhard who you've outsmarted by circumventing the rules of the game, similar to the henka maneuver in sumo wrestling.

I would also point out that the rogue deck is one of the cheapest top tier decks to construct. When I asked about cheap but competitive decks here, it was a suggestion I received and it's not hard to see why.

The version on MTGGoldfish has 5 nonland main deck rares and 2 main deck mythics.

By contrast, the monored deck that I face every other game has 12 main deck nonland rares and 8 main deck nonland mythics.

Sultai Ultimatum has 15 main deck nonland rares and 9 main deck nonland mythics.

Temur Ramp is 14 main deck nonland rares and 14 main deck nonland mythics.

The only thing that's really cheaper is Jeskai Cycling, which can have either 0 or 4 rares, depending on whether you care about Irencrag Pyromancer.

If I were scrambling for a deck to push to a higher rank on the ladder and didn't want to spend a lot, it's the by far the best pick right now.

Azathoth fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Apr 8, 2021

InterrupterJones
Nov 10, 2012

It's obvious that this man and I share the same destiny. Therefore I must join forces with him! Besides, I'll save on gas money if I take him with me.



Humble brag time:




For anyone wanting to play a profoundly annoying deck in historic, flash feels good again. Sultai is great for adding spot removal and Port of Karfell. Strixhaven historic additions are bringing a new set of toys with Brainstorm and Memory Lapse, so it'll probably be good in future historic too. I'm most excited to try out Temur with Magma Opus -> Gearhulk when Strix drops.

Mike N Eich
Jan 26, 2007

This might just be the year


flatluigi posted:

not really feeling this list after trying it out on ladder. not enough resiliency for the slow decks and not enough speed for the faster ones

Yeah - I love the play pattern to it, and there are a lot of fun ways it can pop off, but as an aggro deck its slower than mono-Red or mono-White, and doesn't really have the reach you'd hope it does if you get board wiped or something.

I've been playing the Temur Adventures deck that has more resiliency with Goldspan Dragon and a handful of counterspells mixed in. Just having a little protection is enough that you can utterly smash people

little munchkin
Aug 15, 2010



Azathoth posted:

I would also point out that the rogue deck is one of the cheapest top tier decks to construct. When I asked about cheap but competitive decks here, it was a suggestion I received and it's not hard to see why.

Rogues is a genuinely good deck and not what I'm describing. I'm more talking about teferi's tutelage, turbofog, stuff like that

TipTow
Mar 24, 2006
If I'm posting, tell me to lurk more.

Alright, on the encouragement of a couple posters I installed 17lands, and did an Eldraine quick draft to try it out. Any and all critiques on what I did right or wrong would be greatly appreciated:

draft: https://www.17lands.com/draft/3469e7ea809c46b1aeee71c075c239fa

pool: https://www.17lands.com/pool/3469e7ea809c46b1aeee71c075c239fa

first version of deck: https://www.17lands.com/pool/3469e7ea809c46b1aeee71c075c239fa

For the record I intend to do Bo1 premier drafts for Strixhaven, I know bot drafts aren't the same, but didn't want to sink the gold or gems on another Kaldheim draft.

Azathoth
Apr 3, 2001

Blind.
Idiot.
God.



little munchkin posted:

Rogues is a genuinely good deck and not what I'm describing. I'm more talking about teferi's tutelage, turbofog, stuff like that

Oh sorry, that one. Yeah, I ran up against it a couple times and my one loss against it was when their combo went off perfectly and milled me of like half my deck over a couple turns.

Admittedly, that must have felt pretty good to my opponent, but yeah, I don't see how it pops off enough to actually be fun/worth playing.

denimgorilla
Jan 24, 2008

Like an arrow, I was only passing through.

little munchkin posted:

Rogues is a genuinely good deck and not what I'm describing. I'm more talking about teferi's tutelage, turbofog, stuff like that

Usually Iím happy to see those decks as they arenít a problem but I ran into one on my mono-u fliers/draw cards deck yesterday and boy was that was awful.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20 - 4/2/20





InterrupterJones posted:

Humble brag time:



You need to lose exactly 3 rank points.

little munchkin
Aug 15, 2010



TipTow posted:

Alright, on the encouragement of a couple posters I installed 17lands, and did an Eldraine quick draft to try it out. Any and all critiques on what I did right or wrong would be greatly appreciated:

draft: https://www.17lands.com/draft/3469e7ea809c46b1aeee71c075c239fa

pool: https://www.17lands.com/pool/3469e7ea809c46b1aeee71c075c239fa

first version of deck: https://www.17lands.com/pool/3469e7ea809c46b1aeee71c075c239fa

For the record I intend to do Bo1 premier drafts for Strixhaven, I know bot drafts aren't the same, but didn't want to sink the gold or gems on another Kaldheim draft.

p1p6: I think i'd prefer henge walker here just to give ourselves a playable while we're struggling to find our lane. Nothing in our pool right now gives us incentive to run the egg.

p2p1: This is honstly a pretty bad pick. Right now we're leaning towards blue with a light red splash, which means the castle is likely to enter tapped and we're unlikely to have two other red sources to activate it. Wishing well is nice and the merchant gets good if we find some draw two payoffs down the line.

p2p2: I think turn into a pumpkin is a more consistently powerful card.

p2p5: Don't sleep on broom. There's so many low-key ways to trigger it in the format, and you have a bunch of them already (even redcap melee!)

p2p6: gotta be scorching dragonfire here dude

p2p9: With the animating fairie we took so highly, i think a second witching well is much better value

p3p1: with nothing that cares about mill this is just a cancel (which is not good). get that dragonfire!

draft ended up pretty mediocre. not your fault though just a really unfortunate first pack

deck:

redcap melee is a secret maindeck card. you just run it and even if your opponent isn't red you just save it for the late game and get to kill something at instant speed. so tiny is really good defensive speed even if the mill payoff isn't relevant. kind of like Thrill as well, we have a low curve and lots of redraws, which means we're going to end up with useless lands more often than usual

The Klowner
Apr 20, 2019

I see past the sham that is society, and I'm into some incredibly fucked up shit.

I'd like to know which content creator debuted a historic big gruul deck featuring goldspan dragon, vorinclex and ugin so I can give them a fuckin swirly. It was cool the first time but the next few times in a row gave me agita

AngryBooch
Sep 26, 2009


The Klowner posted:

I'd like to know which content creator debuted a historic big gruul deck featuring goldspan dragon, vorinclex and ugin so I can give them a fuckin swirly. It was cool the first time but the next few times in a row gave me agita

Sounds like the meta is attempting to hate out Jund Sac.

flatluigi
Apr 22, 2008

here come the planes


i love big red and big green decks so if you figure it out please do drop a link

The Klowner
Apr 20, 2019

I see past the sham that is society, and I'm into some incredibly fucked up shit.

flatluigi posted:

i love big red and big green decks so if you figure it out please do drop a link

I was in fact playing big red with planeswalkers so vorinclex is basically gg for me which is why I was a little pissed

Funkdreamer
Jul 15, 2005

It'll be a blast


The Klowner posted:

I was in fact playing big red with planeswalkers so vorinclex is basically gg for me which is why I was a little pissed
Sounds like your red wasn't big enough!

TipTow
Mar 24, 2006
If I'm posting, tell me to lurk more.


Thank you so much for this. I (thought I) knew better than to pass on the dragonfires but I kept waffling on whether I was supposed to be mono U or not with Gadwick and the other adamant blue cards.

As far as what I wound up with, glad you pointed out redcap melee should be included--I thought on that for a bit before cutting it, but will put it back in.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


i haven't done this in a while but i noticed we have a bunch of the free fnm codes left over and they keep expiring. please be cool and say when you take one. go support your lgs if you can, they should also be getting these codes. please don't ask for time spiral when you go because we do not have any


edit: gone

Somberbrero fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Apr 9, 2021

Bell_
Sep 3, 2006

Tiny Baltimore





Thank you for these! I used "648EF-45743-48CB6-54031-CE000", third from the bottom. I'll get the Moonsocks avatar eventually.

Funkdreamer
Jul 15, 2005

It'll be a blast


Somberbrero posted:

i haven't done this in a while but i noticed we have a bunch of the free fnm codes left over and they keep expiring. please be cool and say when you take one. go support your lgs if you can, they should also be getting these codes. please don't ask for time spiral when you go because we do not have any


641E2-DB239-BD6D6-BCFB7-930B9
641F4-2E050-E92AA-47178-C2C7D
641FF-8CED6-CD2A2-6105B-973F7
6420A-4EAE2-5FC94-43136-63AD5
64211-98521-C5C32-77AED-A5393
6421B-D5F67-89322-12529-7EB88

648D5-49107-95A3B-8A18E-D5ED5
648E9-1B1CC-6BFDD-70191-D32F8
648EF-45743-48CB6-54031-CE000
648F4-B4788-A53CC-A7430-700FD
648FE-3093B-F000B-052B2-B204A
Thank you!

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Azathoth
Apr 3, 2001

Blind.
Idiot.
God.



Somberbrero posted:

i haven't done this in a while but i noticed we have a bunch of the free fnm codes left over and they keep expiring. please be cool and say when you take one. go support your lgs if you can, they should also be getting these codes. please don't ask for time spiral when you go because we do not have any


641E2-DB239-BD6D6-BCFB7-930B9
641F4-2E050-E92AA-47178-C2C7D
641FF-8CED6-CD2A2-6105B-973F7
6420A-4EAE2-5FC94-43136-63AD5
64211-98521-C5C32-77AED-A5393
6421B-D5F67-89322-12529-7EB88

648D5-49107-95A3B-8A18E-D5ED5
648E9-1B1CC-6BFDD-70191-D32F8
648EF-45743-48CB6-54031-CE000
648F4-B4788-A53CC-A7430-700FD
648FE-3093B-F000B-052B2-B204A

Thank you for 648FE-3093B-F000B-052B2-B204A

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