Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
BioThermo
Feb 18, 2014



AlternateNu posted:

Is there an agreed upon level where buying the Mastery is actually worth 3,400 gems?

At a rate of 1 pack = 200 gems, 500 gold = 100gems, and draft token =1500 gems, the break even point is level 27 assuming you'd want all the packs you get from the mastery pass.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mat Cauthon
Jan 2, 2006

The more tragic things get,
the more I feel like laughing.


sephiRoth IRA posted:

Thank you for the quality post! I guess for me what happens is I watch streamers execute something really effectively and attempt to replicate and then fail. I figure this is a product of a mythic level streamer versus me, a random player.

I think my major disconnect (which is probably confirmation bias, if I'm being honest with myself) is that when I watch someone pilot a deck, they seem to draw answers they then use to stall and hit their combo pieces, and when I pilot the deck I just draw things that aren't helpful... but probably what's happening is that I'm not recognizing what I should be digging for, or mulliganing for, or just missing what the actual answer would be in a situation.

What seems like a run of amazing luck or serendipity for pros is more the fact that people playing at a high level have practiced navigating lines of play with any given deck against any given known field of opponents over and over to the extent that it becomes reflex to look at the board, analyze the conditions, and think ahead X turns such that they can set themselves up to maximize the opportunity if they draw the right card.

For the rest of us we just call this "playing to your outs" but it goes way beyond that. Combo, aggro, midrange, traditional control, etc all have different approaches for making the most of each turn and thinking through optimal plays in the context of what the opponent is playing and the choices they make. Even a deck like Burn that seems fairly simple on the surface requires a lot of contextual decision making, especially if you're up against someone who knows the deck.

You should practice and track stats but when you're watching streams try to focus on figuring out what information is available to each player in any given turn and how that influences their decision making. Some streamers will call attention to this sort of thing but even with those that don't you can learn a lot by breaking things down into a systems model or a process and working through why some plays are more efficient than others in either securing the win outright or creating the conditions to come back from behind.

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin


sephiRoth IRA posted:


The tracking of stats is something I should start doing ASAP. I do a lot of play in the unranked queue. I cycle through about three "serious" decks right now in addition to random jank I play. The frustration comes from playing something like tainted pact, which by all accounts does well, and just piloting it poorly. I just don't see the plays. I know I need to play more, but right now it feels like I'm practicing the same wrong moves.
I advise against tracking stats, they're fun to look at but you should be constantly changing your deck for the ever shifting meta and your stats should be stale and useless after a few days.
Also, untapped has an overlay that does it for you.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

In Rodd we Bust





I personally think from playing many competitive games over the years that tracking your winrate and counting all your percentages like a calorie counter isnít nearly as useful as setting intentional practice and focusing on making fewer mistakes during actual gameplay. Youíre not gonna get better at the game by making it more stressful and like homework, youíre gonna get better by finding a deck that really speaks to you and that you are enthusiastic about.

Azathoth
Apr 3, 2001

Blind.
Idiot.
God.



I don't know crap about the Historic metagame, so I'm afraid I can't help you there.

Personally, I think bouncing between decks is a mistake given what you've said. This is strictly an opinion, so feel free to tell me to shove it, but there's something to be said for mastering one deck before trying to branch out and play multiple decks at once. Or, maybe do one Control deck and master that, and make it one of the meta ones too.

For star tracking, I highly recommend MTGA Assistant. It'll break things down by deck, so you'll be able to see win rates per deck overall and win rates against opposing mana colors, which should serve as a good proxy for what deck they're playing, even if you might occasionally run into something playing the same colors that's a different archetype.

Here's an example of how it helped me. I am a new player (so again take all my advice with a grain of salt), so I play a Cycling deck. I thought I was doing bad, but after like 50 games, turned out my win rate 58% overall. However, my win rate was like 30% against Monored. I looked up Cycling players and skipped to Monored matches. Turned out they were blowing poo poo up with Irencrag Pyromancer, a card I don't have because I built my deck before the current Monored ascendancy. I ultimately decided to just kinda roll with it and not spend the WCs on something leaving Standard soon. You might find something similar you can either adjust or just say "eh, I'm happier spending WCs on something else"

One thing that I would be really careful of when watching Streamers and building their decks is how representative the overall stream is of their actual Win/Loss rate. If you're just catching them on Twitch at random, that's one thing, but watching a YouTube video later of the same they might have just cut it down to the times the deck actually popped off.

The only streamer I watch who does Historic is Day[9] so I can't really speak to whether a particular streamer is cutting losses that might cover a bad mana base, a jankier than it looks combo, changes to the deck list mid-video, etc.

Azathoth
Apr 3, 2001

Blind.
Idiot.
God.



Bust Rodd posted:

I personally think from playing many competitive games over the years that tracking your winrate and counting all your percentages like a calorie counter isn’t nearly as useful as setting intentional practice and focusing on making fewer mistakes during actual gameplay. You’re not gonna get better at the game by making it more stressful and like homework, you’re gonna get better by finding a deck that really speaks to you and that you are enthusiastic about.

This is really good advice. I would advise you to start collecting the stats and then not obsessively look at them. Just have it start gathering data you can look over later. There's a real human tendency to stress stats and overreact to the natural ups and downs of a game with a luck based element. Like, maybe start collecting the data and plan to look at it in a week or two?

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



sephiRoth IRA posted:

There's another deck that looks fun as hell, and appears like it wins a fair bit: https://app.cardboard.live/shared-deck/fa4a1198-ac67-11eb-8b34-12f15ef2af51?channel_id=183455126
How does this deck actually win? I can see ways to generate infinite mana, mill your whole deck and take a lot of turns in a row, but are you relying on Vivien ult and Llanowar Elves to actually kill your opponent?

Corbeau
Sep 12, 2010

Jack of All Trades


P1P1 Codie is fun.

sit on my Facebook
Jun 20, 2007

ASS GAS OR GRASS
No One Rides for FREE
In the Trumplord Holy Land

Bust Rodd posted:

I personally think from playing many competitive games over the years that tracking your winrate and counting all your percentages like a calorie counter isn’t nearly as useful as setting intentional practice and focusing on making fewer mistakes during actual gameplay. You’re not gonna get better at the game by making it more stressful and like homework, you’re gonna get better by finding a deck that really speaks to you and that you are enthusiastic about.

Not empty quoting

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

In Rodd we Bust





Went to tutor for Narsetís Reversal in my Dimir Combo deck because that play pattern is something I do in cEDH often and was shocked to see the list I net decked wasnít on it.

Narsetís Reversal is a fantastic inclusion for the deck!! Regardless of the floor or the ceiling, you can Reversal your own Tainted Pact to use the copy to go and get Oracle, then play Oracle and cast the original pact again.

So far the deck is really fun, just struggle with pure 40 counter control unless I draw well. The nature of singleton in Bo3 is that my G1ís feel very poor with lots of dead draws.

breadnsucc
Jun 1, 2020

Wall Of Rads

Pokeytax posted:

Here is the list I am running:

Companion
1 Lurrus of the Dream-Den

Deck
4 Valiant Rescuer
4 Flourishing Fox
4 Drannith Stinger
4 Drannith Healer

2 Boon of the Wish-Giver
4 Frostveil Ambush
4 Zenith Flare
4 Footfall Crater
4 Memory Leak
4 Go for Blood
4 Startling Development

7 Mountain
11 Plains

The slightly less budget versions with rare lands, Pyromancer, etc. are pretty much strictly superior. But they may actually result in a lower winrate for newbies because casting spells is a trap, 99% of the time you should cycle so you can Zenith Flare for a zillion damage. Similarly, Lurrus isnít a must-have and most of its value probably comes from people mulliganing against Rogues.

I had only ever used the premade decks before lmao this is soooo different

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


Irony Be My Shield posted:

How does this deck actually win? I can see ways to generate infinite mana, mill your whole deck and take a lot of turns in a row, but are you relying on Vivien ult and Llanowar Elves to actually kill your opponent?

This is Mystmin's latest brew and if you know that name then you know it's some goofy off the wall poo poo that only works for him.

Basically you generate infinite mana and infinite recursion to play Vivien and more importantly Time Warp over and over again so you can ultimate with her and just beat down with whatever you feel like because you have infinite turns.

e: should note that he started his stream at 96% and fell to 92% playing this deck lol

Eej fucked around with this message at 02:25 on May 4, 2021

Azathoth
Apr 3, 2001

Blind.
Idiot.
God.



breadnsucc posted:

I had only ever used the premade decks before lmao this is soooo different

It's a lot of fun, isn't it?

As for Lurrus, yeah don't sweat it on that deck if you don't already have it. It's a zero compromise addition though, so if you do have one, definitely toss it in. Beyond making people think that you're playing Rogues and mulliganing accordingly, it has use in games where it's come to a stalemate and you need extra bodies on the field, either to get the last push or to maintain a stalemate by bringing back a chump blocker every turn.

That said, the deck lacks one of Cycling's best tools for generating chump blockers, Improbable Alliance, so games are less likely to end up there than with the souped-up version. Also, at 6 mana (3 to buy, 3 to play), it's rarely ever going to be a better choice than just cycling whatever you can to try to get Zenith Flare. It does come up though, and it's better than nothing if you have it.

witchy
Apr 23, 2019

one step forward one step back


lurrus is good in multiple formats and you only need 1 for most decks, it's a very safe/efficient craft

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


Nutty that it's a good card even after the errata.

Azathoth
Apr 3, 2001

Blind.
Idiot.
God.



Yeah, definitely a safe craft and a good card, but in that specific deck it's not really worth crafting as the only rare. If they move up to the Jeskai version, at least enough to craft the Pathways (not necessarily Irencrag Pyromancer or Rielle, the Everwise) then it's definitely worth going for it.

sephiRoth IRA
Jun 13, 2007

"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality."

-Carl Sagan


Eej posted:

This is Mystmin's latest brew and if you know that name then you know it's some goofy off the wall poo poo that only works for him.

Basically you generate infinite mana and infinite recursion to play Vivien and more importantly Time Warp over and over again so you can ultimate with her and just beat down with whatever you feel like because you have infinite turns.

e: should note that he started his stream at 96% and fell to 92% playing this deck lol

I love watching Mystmin, he's one of my favorite streamers. His combo poo poo is extremely my jam, but you make a good point that I won't be nearly as successful. Hence my desire to get better at piloting.

Combo stuff in Historic seems to be just pact right now, correct?

resistentialism
Aug 13, 2007



Chump blocked my opponent's luminarch aspirant for 7 turns with elves, geese and ruinblasters while keeping them on zero lands, and finally ticked over waking the trolls for the glorious ponza victory.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


sephiRoth IRA posted:

I love watching Mystmin, he's one of my favorite streamers. His combo poo poo is extremely my jam, but you make a good point that I won't be nearly as successful. Hence my desire to get better at piloting.

Combo stuff in Historic seems to be just pact right now, correct?

I think this is more or less a good look at the way things are right now:

https://twitter.com/mtg_data/status/1389207066640883714

Again, there's a lot of random poo poo you can run that you can take to Mythic if you know what you're doing but this is a general overview of the meta.

wolfman101
Feb 8, 2004

PCXL Fanboy

Last draft with 4 Bury in Books and a bunch of 8 land cards went 4-3. 3 wins were from successfully controlling until I cast Exponential Growth on the Pugilist. 1 game I won from resolving a lot of big fractals until the opponent left. 1 loss was from not drawing lands on time. 2 losses were from decks that out-controlled me. I think if I were to draft the Quandrix 8 lands deck again I would maybe cut one Bury in Books for a tough 3 mana creature and something else for an 18th land.

This new draft is my luckiest yet. Picked up P1P1 Hofri, P2P1 Blot Out the Sky, Lorehold Command, 3 Combat Professors, and a Gods Willing this draft. I couldn't find an Environmental Sciences though, so I had to cut an Igneous Inspiration. Game 1 the opponent scooped while at 16 life when I played Lorehold Command after they double blocked Hofri. Hopefully the rest go this easy.

sephiRoth IRA
Jun 13, 2007

"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality."

-Carl Sagan


Eej posted:

I think this is more or less a good look at the way things are right now:

https://twitter.com/mtg_data/status/1389207066640883714

Again, there's a lot of random poo poo you can run that you can take to Mythic if you know what you're doing but this is a general overview of the meta.

Good data! Thanks for the heads up. Looks like I'm gonna try this pact thing out

Sedisp
Jun 20, 2012




Eej posted:

I think this is more or less a good look at the way things are right now:

https://twitter.com/mtg_data/status/1389207066640883714

Again, there's a lot of random poo poo you can run that you can take to Mythic if you know what you're doing but this is a general overview of the meta.

Oof that rogues match up is even grimmer than I thought for the Tainted Pact hero. Didn't expect azorius to do that well against either.

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!







I imagine my opponent was really happy when this happened.

The Klowner
Apr 20, 2019

I see past the sham that is society, and I'm into some incredibly fucked up shit.

Eej posted:

I think this is more or less a good look at the way things are right now:

https://twitter.com/mtg_data/status/1389207066640883714

Again, there's a lot of random poo poo you can run that you can take to Mythic if you know what you're doing but this is a general overview of the meta.

Gives me the warm fuzzies to see a metagame grid with like a dozen rows and the most commonly played deck by percentage is "other"

That izzet Phoenix Winrate is slightly worrying

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


I wouldn't worry too much about the Phoenix winrate yet. If you look at the matrix, it has real bad matchups against tier 1 decks: Gruul Aggro, Pact Combo, Orzhov Auras and Jund Food.

Sedisp
Jun 20, 2012




The phoenix deck is getting boosted by having a very good game against rakdos and stompy. And keep in mind you can add a few percentage points to any if the aggro decks since mtga doesn't have open lists

Bugsy
Jul 15, 2004

I'm thumpin'. That's
why they call me
'Thumper'.




Slippery Tilde

Oh FFS my quests just disappeared. I thought they fixed this poo poo.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



Sedisp posted:

The phoenix deck is getting boosted by having a very good game against rakdos and stompy. And keep in mind you can add a few percentage points to any if the aggro decks since mtga doesn't have open lists
And obviously Rogues. Turns out the 'mill plus counterspells' plan is not great against the deck that mills into an uncounterable threat.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


Rogues has been bullied out of the meta by mean creature decks too. Was fun while it lasted and it's still lurking about preying on control and combo.

PhilippAchtel
May 31, 2011



Chamale posted:



I imagine my opponent was really happy when this happened.

RIP

Here lies Dragon's Approach. It never scored.

VictualSquid
Feb 29, 2012

Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.


First 7 win draft for this release, finally. Silverquill quill is strong.

In one game I had Daemogoth Titan, Poet's quill and Brackish Trudge. Means I could attack every turn to attack with titan, gain 10 life, bring back trudge. Before that I attacked with trudge, gained 5 life and brought back trudge.
Very boardstall. My opponent could attack with their zephyr boots to cycle for a chumpblocker, but I went up to 80 life.
Their boots killed them. On my last turn I finally cast that Introduction to Annihilation, to make them draw the last card in their library.
Then I got my 7th win against someone who was so manascrewed, I won before they cast any spell at all.

1 Clever Lumimancer
2 Star Pupil
1 Stonebinder's Familiar
1 Unwilling Ingredient
1 Brackish Trudge
1 Pilgrim of the Ages
1 Reflective Golem
1 Silverquill Pledgemage
1 Daemogoth Titan
1 Dueling Coach
2 Specter of the Fens
1 Owlin Shieldmage
1 Lash of Malice
1 Professor's Warning
1 Show of Confidence
2 Essence Infusion
1 Humiliate
1 Exhilarating Elocution
2 Poet's Quill
1 Hall of Oracles
7 Plains
2 Silverquill Campus
7 Swamp

wolfman101
Feb 8, 2004

PCXL Fanboy

VictualSquid posted:

1 Clever Lumimancer
2 Star Pupil
1 Stonebinder's Familiar
1 Unwilling Ingredient
1 Brackish Trudge
1 Pilgrim of the Ages
1 Reflective Golem
1 Silverquill Pledgemage
1 Daemogoth Titan
1 Dueling Coach
2 Specter of the Fens
1 Owlin Shieldmage
1 Lash of Malice
1 Professor's Warning
1 Show of Confidence
2 Essence Infusion
1 Humiliate
1 Exhilarating Elocution
2 Poet's Quill
1 Hall of Oracles
7 Plains
2 Silverquill Campus
7 Swamp

I have been avoiding 4x creatures unless I am in the school. How many times was the titan stuck in your hand?

VictualSquid
Feb 29, 2012

Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.


wolfman101 posted:

I have been avoiding 4x creatures unless I am in the school. How many times was the titan stuck in your hand?
I was either stuck on 1 black or had 4 black, with nothing in between. I actually took out one titan, I drafted two.
I think the only game, where the titan stayed in my hand for a long time he ended up eating a humiliate.

PhilippAchtel
May 31, 2011



Can I just say that I love this card art?





It's not a bad effect either. If you can learn it and cast it in the same turn, you can remove a key blocker and win games with this card. It's a nice delaying card too if you know your opp's hand.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



CGB was saying he really liked it in Monowhite as a find off of Professor of Symbology. You often have hand knowledge with Elite Spellbinder, and even if you don't there are times when your opponent really needs to resolve Shadow's Verdict or Doomskar next turn to not lose.

PhilippAchtel
May 31, 2011



It'll be interesting to see if Learn - Lesson sticks around for Bo3. For Bo1, there's not much tradeoff, but lessons taking sideboard space make them a lot more pricey.

Mike N Eich
Jan 26, 2007

This might just be the year


So far I haven't seen a brew that really packs a huge punch with Learn/Lesson given how weak the Lesson cards are for constructed, but I'm pretty confident there's something out there. And I'm pretty confident the mechanic will come back a little stronger next time too.

That Italian Guy
Jul 25, 2012

Rocky uses Explosive Punch!
Paid by the Spines-for-Lowtax Committee.


Not a big fan of this draft - I had started Silverquill, then went Witherbloom since it was open, but I didn't manage to get any really good cards. What should I remove?

That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 16:01 on May 4, 2021

sit on my Facebook
Jun 20, 2007

ASS GAS OR GRASS
No One Rides for FREE
In the Trumplord Holy Land

Mike N Eich posted:

So far I haven't seen a brew that really packs a huge punch with Learn/Lesson given how weak the Lesson cards are for constructed, but I'm pretty confident there's something out there. And I'm pretty confident the mechanic will come back a little stronger next time too.

Apropos of the previous post, fetching Academic Probation in white based aggro has been far and away the best application that I've tried. Probating their Shadow's Verdict/whatever sweeper is always a huge difference maker, usually disrupting it for a single turn is enough to get over the line.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Azathoth
Apr 3, 2001

Blind.
Idiot.
God.



Mike N Eich posted:

So far I haven't seen a brew that really packs a huge punch with Learn/Lesson given how weak the Lesson cards are for constructed, but I'm pretty confident there's something out there. And I'm pretty confident the mechanic will come back a little stronger next time too.

It feels like it was architected to be playable at the power level they're setting for after Eldraine leaves Standard. In that it's obviously not quite there right now, even if it might see sporadic use like how Monowhite will play Professor of Symbiology now, but seems to be a good fit in a Witherbloom sacrifice deck if such a thing becomes viable.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply