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So just ban Agent because no one likes it
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May 30, 2020 06:12
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GimmickMan posted:This isn't quite true. While there were other reasons for Nexus' ban in bo1, there is another precedent in that Rampaging Ferocidon was briefly unbanned in standard bo3 but not bo1 when M20 came out. This shows they're willing to consider bo1 and bo3 different formats, which is pretty much what they are, so good on them. Then ban agent. My point is that basing total bans on best of one is nonsense. It's an inately poorly balanced format that has a 0 mana you win the game that one player gets as their companion fifty percent of the time.
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May 30, 2020 06:15
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I want Agent banned more than anything but I’m also afraid it’s the only thing they are going to ban. Hopefully Nexus in Historic as well.
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May 30, 2020 06:25
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Bust Rodd posted:Hopefully Nexus in Historic as well. how dare you
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May 30, 2020 06:26
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Bust Rodd posted:I want Agent banned more than anything but I’m also afraid it’s the only thing they are going to ban. Hopefully Nexus in Historic as well. You leave nexus out of this you brigand
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May 30, 2020 06:26
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Ultimately, Agent isn't the problem. The real issue is that too many cards have been released over the past several sets (T3feri, Narset, Fires, Winota, Lucca, plus companions in general) that effectively break the fundamental rules of the game. One or two of these on their own wouldn't be as bad, but now we've got this giant mess of cards that provide an insane combination of control and ramp in one deck. It's a very specific ramp to a very specific creature, but ultimately that's the race. Agent is the linchpin of these decks, the unfun wincon. Ultimately it's a 7CMC creature that should have a powerful effect - but for a very high cost. When that cost is not only lowered but accelerated, it becomes overwhelming. When other cards in the combo limit your ability to interact with it while simultaneously ramping towards it, it becomes a game of who goes first and who has the perfect curve. Ban Agent. Probably ban Fires. T3feri and Narset are rotating out anyway. I don't have a good answer for companions, we'll see what they come up with. WotC said they wanted to ramp up the power levels in Standard up until Ikoria and they were probably more successful than they intended. Now they have to fix it. Shooting Blanks fucked around with this message at 06:39 on May 30, 2020 |
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May 30, 2020 06:28
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Sedisp posted:Then ban agent. My point is that basing total bans on best of one is nonsense. Yeah, that is fair. I still I'm not sure Winota won't eat a ban at some point, just because I have zero faith in wotc to not print another human on the level of Agent or even Marauders in the next year. Maybe without T3feri it'll be safe to play instant speed interaction again and bo1 will be safe from the menace of a 4 mana 4/4 that doesn't have an ETB effect and isn't even guaranteed to do anything when you jump through the hoops it asks.
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May 30, 2020 06:36
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sephiRoth IRA posted:Can you spectate a friend yet like I’m hearthstone? No this isn't a thing (tho it probably should be)
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May 30, 2020 06:38
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I was gonna post a huge rant about Winota and Agent but I don't think it's worthwhile. I'd be interested to see what a Bo1 meta without Agent and Fires but with Winota looks like, albeit I think I already know. There are plenty of non-Agent targets for Winota. So I was going to share a draft for feedback and whinge about how bot drafting Ikoria really is just forced cycling, but it looks like I didn't turn on 17lands quite quickly enough (I usually keep it off) and it didn't record the draft. Ah well, it's a pretty standard cycling deck anyway.
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May 30, 2020 10:01
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I did a few War drafts and it's a much better format than Ikoria. So many in-game decision points, you find yourself agonising over assigning damage to a Planeswalker or face, mentally running through the lines of play they could take, knowing that it could mean the game. I feel like most of my Ikoria wins and losses are made at the draft table - I either come out the other end with a banger or I just don't get there and it's usually pretty easy to tell. I've had fun, must have done upwards of 50 drafts now, but I'm done. Hoarding gold and looking forward to Cube and M21 now.
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May 30, 2020 11:38
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thespaceinvader posted:I was gonna post a huge rant about Winota and Agent but I don't think it's worthwhile. Aggro aggro and uhhh aggro. Shooting Blanks posted:Ultimately, Agent isn't the problem. The real issue is that too many cards have been released over the past several sets (T3feri, Narset, Fires, Winota, Lucca, plus companions in general) that effectively break the fundamental rules of the game. Lukka and winota on their own immediately fold to interaction. Winota comes down and hard removal just killed your deck. Lukka is even more fragile. Try to cheat something out and removal or bounce means your five mana Planeswalker didn't even get to activate your gimmick. The problem is there is a card cheaper than both of these that says you no longer can do those things. In a meta where fires and teferi exist in th same deck there is nothing else to even consider banning until one or both goes away. They are that meta warping. Sedisp fucked around with this message at 12:00 on May 30, 2020 |
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May 30, 2020 11:49
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Shooting Blanks posted:Ultimately, Agent isn't the problem. The real issue is that too many cards have been released over the past several sets (T3feri, Narset, Fires, Winota, Lucca, plus companions in general) that effectively break the fundamental rules of the game. One or two of these on their own wouldn't be as bad, but now we've got this giant mess of cards that provide an insane combination of control and ramp in one deck. It's a very specific ramp to a very specific creature, but ultimately that's the race. with how many different cards you just named, it sounds like you think every tier 1 deck is ban-worthy. Are you sure you don't just hate losing?
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May 30, 2020 14:54
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LMaO the Teferi defender has logged on. A really big part of Standard sucking right now is that every deck is a lovely, uninteractive pile of back-breaking 4 drops and no one can do anything about it because Teferi tells everyone to leave their spells in their hands. In order for any bans to meaningfully shake things up, we’ll need a lot of them.
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May 30, 2020 15:16
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I entered this tournament mostly because I wanted the Godzilla lands. Won my first game playing Mono Black Lurrus against Boros Cycling, and I was getting a tad nervous but was able to get Tymaret out and started eating cards out of the opponents graveyard. Opponent conceded fast. Magic owns.
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May 30, 2020 16:14
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I made Mythic in a week, just before the end of the season.  Even more satisfying for having the last action in the match being an Agent trying to take over my minion and getting turned down by Protection, leading to an immediate concede. Now to watch Lurrus get broken or whatever happens on monday and have to farm up enough wildcards for a new deck. Aeble fucked around with this message at 17:00 on May 30, 2020 |
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May 30, 2020 16:29
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I'm having some luck with my Unburial Rites deck, its frustratingly close to the Frites deck from... 9 years ago? gently caress. Anyway I was looking at that deck and holy poo poo I forgot how busted New Phyrexia was. The reanimation targets in that deck were Elesh Norn, Wurmcoil Engine and Inferno Titan. Nowadays the best thing to reanimate is Agent of Treachery. Getting a turn 3 Ulamog is cool and all, but even then, its usually a better play to grab an Agent and just start stealing lands, especially since I have Momentary Blink to try and dodge removal. That deck also had Faithless Looting and Mulch to feed the GY, we're probably not getting anything of that strength in historic any time soon. But mostly I wish we just had better reanimation targets.
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May 30, 2020 16:45
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Something that I hadn't really thought about before is that planeswalkers (often) effectively gain you live when you play them. Giving more creatures the questing beast text or making deathtouch work properly would help a lot imo
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May 30, 2020 16:47
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SalTheBard posted:I entered this tournament mostly because I wanted the Godzilla lands. Won my first game playing Mono Black Lurrus against Boros Cycling, and I was getting a tad nervous but was able to get Tymaret out and started eating cards out of the opponents graveyard. Opponent conceded fast. Magic owns. Also did mono-black lurrus. Two yorrions and a winota. At least the lands are nice.
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May 30, 2020 17:01
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Wacky Delly posted:Also did mono-black lurrus. Two yorrions and a winota. At least the lands are nice. Oof sorry to hear that  I've had mixed success against Yorrion in general, but I have a feeling these decks would probably be more tuned than the general scrubs out in the wild. I wonder how many individual people are going to play in this and I wonder how many total buy ins they are going to have when all is said and done.
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May 30, 2020 17:10
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SalTheBard posted:I entered this tournament mostly because I wanted the Godzilla lands. Won my first game playing Mono Black Lurrus against Boros Cycling, and I was getting a tad nervous but was able to get Tymaret out and started eating cards out of the opponents graveyard. Opponent conceded fast. Magic owns. I had a bunch of saved up gold, so I took a shot with this deck and went 5-3: 4 Winota, Joiner of Forces (IKO) 216 2 Ketria Triome (IKO) 250 3 Legion Warboss (GRN) 109 3 Hanged Executioner (M20) 22 4 Arboreal Grazer (WAR) 149 4 Gilded Goose (ELD) 160 4 Agent of Treachery (M20) 43 4 Charming Prince (ELD) 8 3 Alirios, Enraptured (THB) 42 4 Stomping Ground (RNA) 259 4 Temple Garden (GRN) 258 3 Sacred Foundry (GRN) 254 3 Steam Vents (GRN) 257 3 Hallowed Fountain (RNA) 251 4 Breeding Pool (RNA) 246 4 Neoform (WAR) 206 2 Kenrith, the Returned King (ELD) 303 2 Brazen Borrower (ELD) 39 Two losses were against cat sacrifice decks, which are hard to roll over unless you get a perfect draw and they get a slow one. The other loss was a mono red cavalcade deck where I went off a turn too late to stop them from doming me. Only change I would make is running Raugrin Triome instead of Ketria, not having a white or red source slowed me down a couple times and the painlands cover green well enough to make sure you get a Grazer or a Goose out. Brazen Borrowers can be cut if you prefer to run Fbltp, but I personally found them extremely useful, both as a bounce spell in a clutch or another Neoform target. Definitely don't be afraid to mulligan aggressively. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 17:17 on May 30, 2020 |
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May 30, 2020 17:12
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pointsofdata posted:Something that I hadn't really thought about before is that planeswalkers (often) effectively gain you live when you play them. Giving more creatures the questing beast text or making deathtouch work properly would help a lot imo also that's usually a super inefficient use for them and if you're dropping planeswalkers just to gain life, you're probably so far behind on board that it doesn't matter. like, if you drop 5-mana teferi and + him to draw a card, hoping they'll send 5 at him instead of your face, they'll probably just send it at your face
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May 30, 2020 17:12
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pointsofdata posted:Something that I hadn't really thought about before is that planeswalkers (often) effectively gain you live when you play them. Yeah I wonder if wotc realizes this
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May 30, 2020 17:17
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The really crazy dumb thing about current standard is that agent and his sidekicks are actually close to being balanced. I played against 8 winota/agent decks in succession on ladder today. And won all the games where I managed to untap my third land before the agent entered the battlefield. Which were half of them, so I am taking a break. The problem is not that agent destroys good decks. It is that he destroys all the fun decks. If there was a
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May 30, 2020 17:22
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I've always felt like the Thassa blink decks in Brawl sucked because they were so limited but she was the obvious choice for a Commander. I believe Vadrok has supplanted her quite handily! Commander 1 Vadrok, Apex of Thunder (IKO) 214 Deck 1 Charming Prince (ELD) 8 1 Flicker of Fate (THB) 16 1 Justiciar's Portal (RNA) 13 1 Elspeth Conquers Death (THB) 13 1 Conclave Tribunal (GRN) 6 1 Teferi's Time Twist (WAR) 72 1 Thassa, Deep-Dwelling (THB) 71 1 Yorion, Sky Nomad (IKO) 232 1 Smothering Tithe (RNA) 22 1 Emergency Powers (RNA) 169 1 Teferi, Time Raveler (WAR) 221 1 Hallowed Fountain (RNA) 251 1 Temple of Enlightenment (THB) 246 1 Steam Vents (GRN) 257 1 Temple of Epiphany (M20) 253 1 Sacred Foundry (GRN) 254 1 Temple of Triumph (M20) 257 1 Raugrin Triome (IKO) 251 1 Castle Ardenvale (ELD) 238 1 Castle Vantress (ELD) 242 1 Command Tower (ELD) 333 1 Evolving Wilds (IKO) 247 1 Fabled Passage (ELD) 244 1 Field of Ruin (THB) 242 1 Field of the Dead (M20) 247 3 Mountain (UND) 94 3 Island (UND) 90 4 Plains (UND) 88 1 The Birth of Meletis (THB) 5 1 Storm's Wrath (THB) 157 1 Dovin's Acuity (RNA) 168 1 Planar Cleansing (M20) 33 1 Arcane Signet (ELD) 331 1 Banishing Light (THB) 4 1 Cavalier of Dawn (M20) 10 1 Omen of the Sea (THB) 58 1 Cloudkin Seer (M20) 54 1 Tome Raider (ELD) 68 1 Spark Double (WAR) 68 1 Dream Eater (GRN) 38 1 Agent of Treachery (M20) 43 1 Whirlwind of Thought (IKO) 215 1 Mythos of Vadrok (IKO) 127 1 Narset, Parter of Veils (WAR) 61 1 Lukka, Coppercoat Outcast (IKO) 125 1 Meteor Golem (M20) 232 1 Harmonious Archon (ELD) 17 1 Omen of the Sun (THB) 30 1 Elite Guardmage (WAR) 195 1 Shatter the Sky (THB) 37 1 Lumbering Battlement (RNA) 15 1 Deafening Clarion (GRN) 165 2nd draft: this is not a counterspell deck, this a proactive deck thats wants its mana for board state and not interaction, although board clears are important because you can usually recover or play around your own sweeps. Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 18:09 on May 30, 2020 |
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May 30, 2020 17:26
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I wanted something brainless so I tried that BO1 Lurrus deck and boy it does not have any game against Lukka. e: yep, 1-3, got my godzilla lands! Eej fucked around with this message at 17:33 on May 30, 2020 |
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May 30, 2020 17:29
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Did they fix that vadrok glitch yet or what
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May 30, 2020 17:33
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A Moose posted:Creatures do that too though. nearly every creature in the game can block in a pinch. Planeswalkers are actually worse at that, because they can't really trade It's true that creatures also do it, but it's just an incidental but of value attached to planeswalkers which can slow down your opponent - especially if their creature powers don't efficiently line up with the remaining loyalty. I do think that there are some interesting play patterns where you have two attackers and they have one blocker and a pw, but they mainly make pws better
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May 30, 2020 17:34
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Game 2: Played Yorion Fires. I don't know if the guy kept a poo poo opening hand or what but his big Yorion play was to bounce 2 red Omens back to his hand and then kill a Hateful Eidolon and a Fenlurker. I was able to FINALLY get Lurrus out with a Ghost Form and from there I was able to keep his white Omen tokens in check, and then just beat him down slowly but surely. I'm loving pumped. 
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May 30, 2020 17:57
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Big ol' pile of Umori Sultai (more like Simic) critters did oddly well. Blotto'd a white lifegainchantment deck, flipped coins for a sixty-forty vs five Fires-Agent bastards (bless you, early Gemrazers), stomped a poor innocent bastard of a Rakdos Preypiercer into eighty component fragments, then met my end at the hands of hard Esper control featuring Kaheera (seemed to be the only creature in their deck, which made sense after a while - hey, a free always-in-hand creature to round out my nine trillion Teferis). I did NOT expect to do as well as I did, which I credit entirely to good luck, PARTICULARLY vs the Yorion squad. 20k gold for the only basic lands I'll ever need and 1200 gems is much, MUCH more than I'd hoped to get when I entered this. Companion 1 Umori, the Collector (IKO) 231 Deck 4 Essence Symbiote (IKO) 149 3 Glowstone Recluse (IKO) 156 3 Gemrazer (IKO) 155 2 Boneyard Lurker (IKO) 178 2 Brokkos, Apex of Forever (IKO) 179 4 Pouncing Shoreshark (IKO) 64 3 Parcelbeast (IKO) 199 3 Pollywog Symbiote (IKO) 63 3 Archipelagore (IKO) 41 2 Trumpeting Gnarr (IKO) 213 1 Incubation Druid (RNA) 131 3 Auspicious Starrix (IKO) 144 1 Castle Garenbrig (ELD) 240 2 Overgrown Tomb (GRN) 253 1 Breeding Pool (RNA) 246 8 Island (SLD) 64 2 Ketria Triome (IKO) 250 1 Indatha Triome (IKO) 248 1 Zagoth Triome (IKO) 259 3 Paradise Druid (WAR) 171 8 Forest (SLD) 67 Drakyn fucked around with this message at 18:02 on May 30, 2020 |
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May 30, 2020 17:59
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7-1 with jeskai lukka maindecking clarion and forge. everyone really wanted to make winota work, so i let them have it on turn 4 with no board. bo1 is a joke, mull aggressively to 5 to find a clarion if your opponent doesnt have a companion because temur rec seems non existent in it at the moment.
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May 30, 2020 18:11
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Time posted:7-1 with jeskai lukka maindecking clarion and forge. everyone really wanted to make winota work, so i let them have it on turn 4 with no board. bo1 is a joke, mull aggressively to 5 to find a clarion if your opponent doesnt have a companion because temur rec seems non existent in it at the moment. I see some winota decks playing Umori, so maybe watch out for that companion. Crokeyz is playing it right now
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May 30, 2020 18:18
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A Moose posted:I see some winota decks playing Umori, so maybe watch out for that companion. Crokeyz is playing it right now I would have mulliganed the same way if I saw the companion that telegraphed “I’m playing only creatures” but I guess it doesn’t really matter now that I’m done
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May 30, 2020 18:23
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A Moose posted:Has anyone played around with Unburial Rites in Historic? Seems like you can do some interesting stuff, there's enough self mill from Stitcher's Supplier, Glowspore Shaman and The Binding of the Titans to get some pretty hilarious turn 4s or even 3s. I'm trying out ulamog right now, but as big and strong as he is, he might not be the best reanimation target, since he doesn't do anything the turn he comes down and I have no real way to protect him from getting bounced, exiled or stolen. Dream Trawler and Agent are both probably better. Anybody have any other good reanimation targets? I was thinking something like Carnage Tyrant or Zetalpa or maybe Azor? Platinum Angel could be funny. I've been running this in Bo1 with great fun! The goal is to get an Ayara or Bastion on the board and then Unburial Rites to loop your Bladwings. Deck 4 Bladewing the Risen (SCG) 136 2 Ayara, First of Locthwain (ELD) 75 4 Unburial Rites (ISD) 122 2 Bastion of Remembrance (IKO) 73 4 Stitcher's Supplier (M19) 121 4 The Binding of the Titans (THB) 166 2 Extinction Event (IKO) 88 4 Mire Triton (THB) 105 4 Heartless Act (IKO) 91 3 Fabled Passage (ELD) 244 4 Overgrown Tomb (GRN) 253 1 Plains (THB) 250 2 Thrill of Possibility (ELD) 146 3 Woodland Cemetery (DAR) 248 4 Swamp (THB) 252 1 Temple of Silence (M20) 256 3 Blood Crypt (RNA) 245 1 Temple of Plenty (THB) 248 1 Forest (THB) 254 2 Temple of Malady (M20) 254 1 Mountain (THB) 253 4 Mythos of Nethroi (IKO) 97 
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May 30, 2020 18:52
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If I knew how strong Yorion Lukka was in BO1 I should've just done that but not sure I want to burn 4k gems for a second round.
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May 30, 2020 19:03
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I deleted all of my standard decks besides Temur Reclamation in anticipation of Monday. I've also discovered that I am virtually 4-5 rares away from owning every Brawl legal card. I don't any of the duel deck planeswalkers or the rares that tutor for them, I'm just missing a couple of the weird rares from Theros that only came in collector's boosters.
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May 30, 2020 19:24
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Got blown out by Neoform Winota and Bant Yorion. I really hope Agent gets banned
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May 30, 2020 19:30
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Games 3 and 4 were against Neoform Winota and Bant Yorion. I lost both of those pretty handily Game 5 was Obosh Rakdos Aggro Early on we traded damage back and forth, I couldn't really get much going but I did have on flyer on the board and that flyer was the MVP because I kept plinking him down with it while blocking all of his creatures. Once again Tymaret was awesome because I was able to eat all of his Phoenix's to keep him from recurring those from the GY. I'm so stoked to be 3-2 right now, even if I lose the game I'm about to start 400 gems is ok with me. Game 6 was weird. I'm not sure what this deck was. I'm assuming Fires, but like I've never seen a Fires deck with Kenrith and Cavalier of Flames.  Game 7 was probably the most intense one I've played yet. They were playing a Mono Blue deck that was chock full of counterspells. They countered Lurrus early on and it took me FOREVER to draw the Adventure card that does graveyard recursion (i'm sorry I'm really loving excited and can't remember the name). My opponent kept beating me down with Stonecoil Serpent which I couldn't really block. FINALLY I was able to get Lurrus out, got Ghostform on him, played 2 knights of the ebon blade and that was all she wrote (I was so amped on adrenaline I forgot to pump the Knight before blocking. 
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May 30, 2020 19:40
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Is the game unplayable for other people as well? I keep losing because I keep timing out.
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May 30, 2020 19:41
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the only weird thing I've noticed is that if you try to craft things while building a deck, sometimes it just won't craft until you close the deck and open it again. Or sometimes it will craft exactly once, and the card will show up in your deck, but still greyed out until you re-open the deck. its just all hosed up
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May 30, 2020 19:46
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I know Arena is Always Correct, so could someone explain to me why a Gruul Spellbreaker was able to pick haste when it ETB while I had a Hushbringer on the board?
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May 30, 2020 19:48
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