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Banned and restricted update is good
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Aug 3, 2020 15:39
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 What I would love more than anything is an explanation. Why now and not two weeks ago, when everyone was begging for these bans? Or a month ago, when everyone was begging for these bans? Or 6 months ago, when everyone was begging for these bans?
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Aug 3, 2020 15:43
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Holy cow. They actually did it. Love that cauldron familiar was included, actually the most impactful ban long-term as it wasnt rotating.
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Aug 3, 2020 15:45
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Uh, please correct me if I’m wrong, but have they ever banned four different combo decks out of a format at once before? The standard bans are good but Pioneer has been completely flipped on its head! You could almost say... inverted! I just can’t think of a more dramatic shake-up to a format all at once. Heliod, Breach, Kethis, and Inverter all gone means Pioneer is basically brand new all over again.
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Aug 3, 2020 15:47
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Fantastic changes imo.
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Aug 3, 2020 15:48
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Wahey back to the ladder. It's a whole new world.
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Aug 3, 2020 15:50
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A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
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Aug 3, 2020 15:54
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I guess the bans won't take effect on Arena til thursday?
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Aug 3, 2020 15:55
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Holy poo poo, that's huge. It does feel weird to ban some of those cards so late though.
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Aug 3, 2020 15:56
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Bust Rodd posted:You could almost say... inverted! I assume this was a scheduled B&R, just because of the huge breadth of the bans? Anyway, kinda sad that Teferi couldn't make it to his rotation retirement. So close!
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Aug 3, 2020 15:57
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im so glad cat is gone, god drat
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Aug 3, 2020 15:57
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Mostly welcome changes, although mostly still resentful over the dithering over Reclaimation and Inverter. Was Ballista/Heliod actually doing much whilst Pioneer was still seeing play? In my deck it was more something that might come together beside the core strategy. Or did Selesnya counters take off?
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Aug 3, 2020 16:00
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“We regret to inform that after the ban, T3feri was killed on the way back to his home plane.”BizarroAzrael posted:Mostly welcome changes, although mostly still resentful over the dithering over Reclaimation and Inverter. I think if you ban 3 out of 4 infinite combo decks you’re just sort of serving up the format to the 4th one, they all had to go.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:00
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Same reason why they hit Kethis, probably.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:04
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It's interesting that the announcement flat out says digital play is the reason they felt there was urgency to do this before rotation, and Arena was mentioned again specifically in the context of cat oven too. This is definitely going to fuel the 'Arena is killing paper' conspiracy theorists.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:09
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Wow loving hell I can't believe they banned Cauldron Familiar. Also what are these loving bans on T3feri, Rec and Spiral like a month before they rotate? The only one I disagree with is Cauldron Familiar. Is it annoying? Yes. But there are ways of dealing with it.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:11
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Kinda lol that the Pioneer reasoning is "we literally didn't look at how many people had dropped the format entirely because of how lovely it was when we did the last B&R update"
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Aug 3, 2020 16:11
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SalTheBard posted:Wow loving hell I can't believe they banned Cauldron Familiar. Also what are these loving bans on T3feri, Rec and Spiral like a month before they rotate? "Under our usual approach, we would have allowed Standard rotation to provide a natural and predictable shift in the metagame with the release of Zendikar Rising. But in an era of social distancing, the proportion of Standard play occurring on digital platforms has increased substantially. As the rate at which players can rack up games of Standard in digital is higher than in tabletop, we believe it's correct to enact metagame change at a faster rate as well." Arena isn't killing paper, but if I were a paper player I do think I'd be paranoid about B&R announcements turning into a regular thing like patch notes for a video game.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:12
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Covid claims Teferi as its latest victim
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Aug 3, 2020 16:13
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Patch coming in 15 minutes
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Aug 3, 2020 16:14
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Interesting that they banned Teferi in Brawl immediately, when Fires of Invention and Agent of Treachery we’re both allowed to stay Brawl legal. Probably have a lot of data of people just immediately “nope”ing out of those games as soon as you can see their Brawler. “Further, the number of triggers generated by these decks can be cumbersome for both players in digital play. To weaken these sacrifice strategies, open up more metagame diversity, and create a more fun gameplay environment, Cauldron Familiar is banned.” It was impossibly stupid that activating the cat didn’t just consume the last food you generated, the only reason not to do it that was back when Oko was in the format. That additional click when you only had 1 good available probably wasted a collective 10,000 years of human life lmao Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Aug 3, 2020 |
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Aug 3, 2020 16:15
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So how many bans is this now since last rotation? I feel like the past year has been giving Combo Winter a run for its money just in sheer volume.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:18
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I love playing reclamation, teferi control and catoven. And the only ban I am really sad about is catoven. They should have just worked to make arena's interface better so it becomes less annoying. Oh god, amazonian is trying to force a deck with all the banned cards.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:19
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Bust Rodd posted:Interesting that they banned Teferi in Brawl immediately, when Fires of Invention and Agent of Treachery we’re both allowed to stay Brawl legal. Probably have a lot of data of people just immediately “nope”ing out of those games as soon as you can see their Brawler. Problematic cards are less problematic (statistically) when you only draw them in a tiny number of games. You also can't really build around reliably having them, which is when Fires gets especially problematic. Agent should probably still have gone given that you were frequently finding and cheating it out from your library though.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:19
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VictualSquid posted:Oh god, amazonian is trying to force a deck with all the banned cards.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:22
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Bust Rodd posted:Interesting that they banned Teferi in Brawl immediately, when Fires of Invention and Agent of Treachery we’re both allowed to stay Brawl legal. Probably have a lot of data of people just immediately “nope”ing out of those games as soon as you can see their Brawler. They could have fixed if they cared. They added the tap all lands button to make nexus faster to play.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:22
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Time posted:they should ban wilderness rec in plat and diamond because bad players dont deserve to get to hold priority for 15 minutes before they make a mistake. same with the cat oven decks Time you got your wish!
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Aug 3, 2020 16:22
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It's still hilarious to me that companions were ever released as broken as they were. IMO that was still the biggest fuckup of a year full of fuckups just because of how obvious it was.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:22
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Simic Flash sounds like a good first deck to play after the patch goes live Happy that Wizards banned every card that sucks rear end
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Aug 3, 2020 16:23
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Yoked posted:Time you got your wish! im sorry all for waiting to use my wish. next time i'll be more prompt
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Aug 3, 2020 16:24
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How loving long was Teferi legal for? Is that a record for time before "ok fine this is a problematic card". Also lol that playtester standard had companions, Oko, wilderness, teferi, nexus of fate, and field of the dead all legal at the same time and "this is fine"
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Aug 3, 2020 16:24
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I'm just baffled why they didn't ban Rec in particular at the same time as Fires. it seems transparently obvious that they're both broadly equally problematic given that they're both 4CMC enchantments that double your mana the turn they're played and every turn after, and severely limit your deckbuilding, albeit in different ways. Cat being banned for gameplay rather than balance reasons is good. It's a shame it had to be, if oven in particular was sorcery speed it would probably not be an issue at all, if the cat-return was sorcery speed it would be fine both balance wise and annoyance wise. What do people expect for archetypes in this brave new world? I'm assuming aggro decks just come storming back since teferi in particular was a huge throttle on them.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:25
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:So how many bans is this now since last rotation? I feel like the past year has been giving Combo Winter a run for its money just in sheer volume. It's been a lot, just in Standard we've had: November 2019 - Oko, Once upon a Time and Veil of Summer June 2020 - Agent of Treachery and Fires August - Cauldron Familiar, Growth Spiral, T3feri and Rec For all formats: 
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Aug 3, 2020 16:26
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Lid posted:Also lol that playtester standard had companions, Oko, wilderness, teferi, nexus of fate, and field of the dead all legal at the same time and "this is fine" One of the arguments of the 'Arena isn't killing paper, but it is having a negative impact' moderate crowd is that they feel more free to print stupid poo poo now that they can just patch it out of the format the vast majority of games are played in, even though it's obviously a bigger deal in paper.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:26
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Have they ever put out a retrospective article on designing WotS where they cop to the Prison walkers being gigantic mistakes that ruined every format?
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Aug 3, 2020 16:26
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I forgot Once upon a Time too.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:27
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Lid posted:I forgot Once upon a Time too. I did too until I played against it in Brawl last night and I was like "Goddamn isn't this card banned???"
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Aug 3, 2020 16:30
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Im going to miss cat oven as that was the first time i got to play with sacrifice mechanics in standard and i loved it but i can see why its gone. Now to see if Korvold can be made viable again.
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Aug 3, 2020 16:33
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Booo no wild cards 
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Aug 3, 2020 16:37
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Woo baby, time to find out if Disdainful Stroke is a playable Magical card again!
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Aug 3, 2020 16:38
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